Kingsnbucs1987
Bench
Well it was fun for a little while, see you guys at the next game
[Game] Kings @ Hawks 2/22/13
- Thread starter HereWeBoogie
- Start date
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LWP777
Guest
Reke is nowhere near the outside shooter of those guys. He shoots a decent percentage because he makes a lot of layups.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
...which makes him a far smarter player than somebody chucking up 20 foot bricks. Lot easier to play with too. A guy pulls up for a long jumper off his dribble and bricks it again and again if you're his teammate you just want to punch him. What's the point of even running down the floor? Guy attacks the middle at least good things can happen.
rainmaker
Hall of Famer
What are you talking about?
IT is 32% from 3.
Reke is 33%.
MT is 35%.
Reke was up above 35% for a while before a recent dip.
Another thing is - there's a difference between having ball movement and having a game plan that works. If we had Shaq in his prime we could just dump the ball to him and let him go 1 on 1. If they don't double/triple he can go for 40 just like that. Zero ball movement, but it's a consistent plan that forces the defense to pick their poison. If they double, he can kick it out, just one pass for an open outside shot. Or if you're like the Mike Brown Cavs with LeBron - you get the ball to LeBron and let him go 1 on 5. Not a very smart game plan by any means, but still something that worked well enough for them to reach the NBA finals.
But here's the thing, this is Shaq and LeBron we're talking about. They can go 1 on 5 and still be unstoppable. When you don't have superstar HOF players you need to run some sort of plays to utilize the whole team. Heck, the Lakers with Shaq and Kobe still ran more clear cut plays than we do. I suppose you could argue that our game plan is just to let anyone under 6'5 take shots whenever they want, and to limit the passes per possession to 3, but I'm looking at our record and still trying to figure out how anyone could think that's a successful way to play. The fact that we've lost so many games with our gunners playing the exact same way tells me that it is not a viable approach to consistent wins, and so even on nights where the shots are going in and we're winning I still think it's bad basketball. In fact, some nights the shots can be going in and we still find ourselves on the losing end.
I'm not as much of a purist as guys like Barkley, who think that even the Knicks won't go far in the playoffs because they live and die by the jumpshot. But I do think that if you're going to be an outside shooting team at very least you need to be getting wide open looks, be it off guard penetration or having the ball kicked out from the post. Yes, you may die by the jumpshot, but you at least stand a better chance of winning games when those shots are wide open and part of a good offensive system rather than just chucking the ball up any time you get an inch of space.
Glenn
Hall of Famer
I think we have enough good players and even good trade material to remake this team. 1st is that mess of PGs. I think a few PGs plus someone else could be traded for a decent star of a SF or shotblocker. Get rid of the chuckers totally. Maybe IT will mature but asking him to be something else is than what he is is not the way I would handle it. He's good trade bait.
Wait until the new owners come and I hope they make the proper hirings and get this mess straightened out.
And, I will add the major part of our team is still Cuz and Tyreke and I have the balls to say it.
Tyreke will suck in small ball and that's all Smart knows. I saw a quote of his yesterday where it seemed like he almost had reverance for Nellie and that is not the direction I want us to go especially when we have two guys built for a different kind of game. Every once in awhile Tyreke does something that no one else can do because of his athleticism. I have faith that those skills can be molded by a proper coach and a proper running mate at PG.
Tyreke has been deteriorating but the question has to be answered, "why?" I'm not going to argue with LWP777 as to how he plays in small ball. I WILL argue as to how much skill he has.
Wait until the new owners come and I hope they make the proper hirings and get this mess straightened out.
And, I will add the major part of our team is still Cuz and Tyreke and I have the balls to say it.
Tyreke will suck in small ball and that's all Smart knows. I saw a quote of his yesterday where it seemed like he almost had reverance for Nellie and that is not the direction I want us to go especially when we have two guys built for a different kind of game. Every once in awhile Tyreke does something that no one else can do because of his athleticism. I have faith that those skills can be molded by a proper coach and a proper running mate at PG.Tyreke has been deteriorating but the question has to be answered, "why?" I'm not going to argue with LWP777 as to how he plays in small ball. I WILL argue as to how much skill he has.
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Kingsfan23
All-Star
I look forward to the day when I actually have a clue of what Demarcus' production will be. Now I am not surpised to see anything from 7 to 28 and anything in between on a nightly basis.
Well maybe not so if your team has James, Wade, Kobe etc. More so when you're doing that with Travis Outlaw, James Johnson and Marcus Thornton.
The Lebron and Shaq point has A LOT to do with Brick just mentioned about Tyreke. It is arguably the most important point in offense. Getting the ball into the middle of the floor/rim. Working from the inside out. That is why Lebron and Shaq teams are so amazing. Once they get the ball into the middle it opens EVERYTHING up for your team. You either get a good point blank shot or you get an open perimeter shot with a chance for a rebound.
That's why you don't give up on players like Tyreke who make their living getting to the hoop. Or give up on a dominate big like Cousins. Having these kind of players is where championship teams start. Many steps you have to reach after that of course, but it is the starting point.
HereWeBoogie
Hall of Famer
Aaron Bruski@aaronbruski
Smart on Isaiah: "I thought he played okay."
Smart on Isaiah: "I thought he played okay."
Well IT did play well, I won't deny that. Shot the ball well, made a few assists. But he just dominated the ball for large stretches and that's not what you want from your PG. It's even worse that the coach finds that ok. IT is a young player, and as far as he's concerned he's scoring, playing hard and doing his part to help the team win. I don't blame him for that. I do blame him a little for not knowing that as a PG he should be looking to involve others more, but he is young and is used to being a scorer (some other rook or soph mentioned over the all star break that coming out of UW many expected IT to become a SG in the NBA, but that he knew IT could pass and play PG). Most of all I blame the coach for not expecting his PG to play more like a PG and for letting him freeze guys out without correcting him.
IfAt1st
Starter
All this obsessing over every possible imperfection of our last-drafted PG, IT, compels me to point out Tyreke's imperfections:
(and this is just from when I started watching (the end of the 3rd quarter))
End of 3rd quarter was set up for a WIDE-OPEN 3 by IT, bricked it. (IT got RBD)
He was scored on twice in the 4th (tough drives, but y'all blame IT when guys score on him regardless of how the shots are)
He left 2 shooters WIDE-OPEn for 3-ptrs that the Hawks made. (one was when MT switched on Deshawn Stevenson and Tyreke inexplicably pointed at Outlaw to cover his man but it was too late, the 2nd one he spaced on the alley-oop pass to Smith and he did one of his patented "fall asleep on defense for 1 full second" and left Korver wide open for the kick-out)
He missed at least three drives (one uncontested) and was leading the floor during the time the game got away from the Kings.
Do you see how absurd focusing on every imperfection of a player is?
This board has lost all objectivity in regards to IT - because of Brick and the grading threads, this board is demonizing IT and only seeing the negatives, the same exact way they have in a long history of doing so, from Kenny Thomas to Beno to Carl Landry and now IT.
(and this is just from when I started watching (the end of the 3rd quarter))
End of 3rd quarter was set up for a WIDE-OPEN 3 by IT, bricked it. (IT got RBD)
He was scored on twice in the 4th (tough drives, but y'all blame IT when guys score on him regardless of how the shots are)
He left 2 shooters WIDE-OPEn for 3-ptrs that the Hawks made. (one was when MT switched on Deshawn Stevenson and Tyreke inexplicably pointed at Outlaw to cover his man but it was too late, the 2nd one he spaced on the alley-oop pass to Smith and he did one of his patented "fall asleep on defense for 1 full second" and left Korver wide open for the kick-out)
He missed at least three drives (one uncontested) and was leading the floor during the time the game got away from the Kings.
Do you see how absurd focusing on every imperfection of a player is?
This board has lost all objectivity in regards to IT - because of Brick and the grading threads, this board is demonizing IT and only seeing the negatives, the same exact way they have in a long history of doing so, from Kenny Thomas to Beno to Carl Landry and now IT.
Kingsnbucs1987
Bench
No he's actually a smart shooter, he knows the jump shot isn't his best shot, so he shoots it if he's absolutely open and when he's set. Everybody else as soon as they catch they hoist it up, how times has IT, Thorton, and Salmons just threw up a shot even though there's a man dead in his face with a hand up. Reke plays to his strength and not to his weakness.Everybody gushes about IT and how he plays fearlessly, it's cause he knows he has the green light to jack shots up and won't get pulled for it, just like Thorton. Reke and Jimmer don't have that cause they know they'll get pulled quick.
IfAt1st
Starter
what is your point?
I thought he was trying to call you a conehead, or something.
Well, are you?
Well, are you?
You got me again. Every night you seem to give me one good man giggle.
IfAt1st
Starter
maybe you're right - personal attacks are certainly par for the course here.
God forbid people actually can talk about the game and the players and the coaches of the Kings without being personally attacked when they don't follow the groupthink of KF's.....
Kingsnbucs1987
Bench
Nobody is demonizing him, people want him to be a passing point not a shooting point. Why's that hard to understand, the same complaint people had about Reke, have the same complaint about IT. IT plays like a 2 guard, he looks for his shot first and foremost. Unless you have a Westbrook, Paul, or Parker, or Rose, or Irving, teams don't want their PGs to take more shots than their supposedly franchise C or combo guard.
There's no balance with this team, the new GM is gonna have to make a choice between IT and Reke and ship the other out. You can't have two ball dominant guards in you back court starting at the same time cause one is gonna take shots from the other:
Either trade Reke and get a guard whose defensive and can shoot the open 3
or
Sign a pass first guard who can hit the open shot when given and defend a little bit and move IT to the sixth man role with Thorton.
The bench sucks cause there's nobody that can handle and run plays to set up others cause our supposed 3 best guards that fit that :IT, Reke, and Salmons all start, you're gonna have to move one to the bench to help them out.
Cite?
kingsnation
All-Star
Keith Smart, the Kings FO and MSE has lost all objectivity in regards to IT. Not the board. That's the problem.
Kingsnbucs1987
Bench
IfAt1st
Starter
This game was lost in the 4th quarter, when DMC and IT were off the court, and Tyreke was running the team. It was his show the entire critical section of the 4th, and he monumentally failed to do anything with the team.
It's amazing what KF's will excuse him of. Multiple people actually thought he may be just waiting to get off this crappy team, and they're OK with that kind of crappy effort that lost the game. (?!)
If he was something special in this league, he would have taken the ball and done something with it.
Does a star need some special magic from his coach to allow him to lead a team and be effective in crunchtime?
If Tyreke was who KF's think he is, he would have done SOMEthing to suggest he has any kind of competitive streak, and drive to win.
This game dramatically showed he lacks the inner fire it takes to become great at the game and lead a team to victory.
It's amazing what KF's will excuse him of. Multiple people actually thought he may be just waiting to get off this crappy team, and they're OK with that kind of crappy effort that lost the game. (?!)
If he was something special in this league, he would have taken the ball and done something with it.
Does a star need some special magic from his coach to allow him to lead a team and be effective in crunchtime?
If Tyreke was who KF's think he is, he would have done SOMEthing to suggest he has any kind of competitive streak, and drive to win.
This game dramatically showed he lacks the inner fire it takes to become great at the game and lead a team to victory.
Glenn
Hall of Famer
I'm not going to go into this at great length. I don't think Tyreke can fundamentally change who he is as a basketball player although he is adding a jump shot. His 3 pt percentage is right up there with all our other players, believe it or not. IT is a shoot first PG and cannot change his mind set. As much as we want him to involve Tyreke in the offense, he will not. He's not that kind of player.
I don't expect IT to be anything different than what he is and I don't expect Tyreke to be anything different than what he is. One of them has to be traded.
I don't expect IT to be anything different than what he is and I don't expect Tyreke to be anything different than what he is. One of them has to be traded.
Agent23
Starter
Like Kevin Martin was demonized, like Chris Webber, like Peja Stojakovic, like Tyreke Evans currently is?
IfAt1st
Starter
Really?
You're unaware?
Go read my posting history over the years.
If you actually cared to stop personal attacks, I'd quote you exact threads and posts where personal attacks are allowed against anyone who doesn;t agree with the KF's hegemony on player assessments.
It's why I hardly bother to post anymore.
That, and the Kings have sucked almost all interest in the team from me.
Agent23
Starter
Pot meet kettle. You're the biggest crybaby on this board by the way.
What I'm aware of is that there is a vocal minority of people who conflate having their opinions attacked with being attacked personally. I'd like to see evidence to the contrary.
Okay, now that's a personal attack. Stop. Two wrongs, and all of that.
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