TheGOAT1006
G-League
What a great long weekend for Kings basketball is all I can say!
Kings free agency, part 3
- Thread starter Darth Divac
- Start date
Really hard to say where the Kings are at in terms of cap room, especially since James Anderson's deal has never been made public as far as I know.
But by my best guess, if Omri took the room exception (meaning the Kings have to hit the cap for his deal to work) then Vlade still has $4M to $4.5M to work with if Stockton is waived. If Omri isn't taking the room exception then I'd guess the Kings have $1M to $1.5M under the cap and then the room exception.
And as I see it the Kings have 12 guys under contract (I'm not counting Stockton's unguaranteed deal) and still very much need a third SF, a backup PF and a deep bench center.
I'd love to see Cole Aldrich or Jeff Withey for the minimum or close to it to fill that last slot, but the SF and PF are much more important. If Gay is going to play a lot of PF under Karl then Casspi would man the SF slot and a third SF is crucial. Anderson and Liggins (from our SL team) are both more SG than SF but they might fill the slot. And for PF the Kings don't want to be in a position where they have to rely heavily on WCS early on and they shouldn't be counting on Moreland at all. A veteran is really a need there.
Josh Smith might still be a possibility if Omri did sign using the Room Exception. But there are other veteran PFs that could be had. Reggie Evans wouldn't be an awful choice and he has a good relationship with Boogie. A stretch 4 like Jerebko, Bargnani or Teletovic is another way to go. And at SF I like Dorell Wright but I don't know if he's affordable. Mbah a Moute was a great defender when he was here and engaged. James Jones is another name I've thrown out there. And Matt Barnes is still the kind of guy good teams have. The dirty work, get under the opponents skin guy.
Still lots of options.
It must suck to have a name that nobody can be bothered to get right.
Letsgokings13
Starter
Mbah a moute doesn't even like playing basketball. ham's podcast said he would stay out and have small injuries keep him sidelined. i'll pass. I want hard works
FaStRmAn
Starter
It is extremely easy for the talking/typing heads to kill the Kings with their words and tweets. They do not fear the wrath of a small market fanbase. They can be 1000% wrong and they will still come out smelling like roses because there is no such thing as Journalism anymore. There is only the TMZ mentality that is pervasive in all areas of our culture. What appears to be good on the surface can be painted horrible and ridicule filled vitriol can be spewed forth.
Therefore I IGNORE them completely.
While I'm not actually pining for a return of Mbah a Moute, I'd take that little bit of potential slander from James Ham's infamous
Slowly the media ship is turning... baby steps
http://www.sbnation.com/nba/2015/7/6/8900153/kings-nba-free-agency-2015-vlade-divac-cap-space
http://www.sbnation.com/nba/2015/7/6/8900153/kings-nba-free-agency-2015-vlade-divac-cap-space
TheGOAT1006
G-League
Isn't Barnes with the Grizz?
You're right. I thought he was waived by the Hornets after the Stephenson trade but it turns out they wanted to get involved in the game of hot potato with Luke Ridnour instead.
They aren't, and that the point for the 76ers- they just acquired more ping-pong balls even if they are worse than us as long as we don't make the playoffs...
And the first rounder is top 10 protected in 2018 and 2019. and becomes an unprotected first round pick in 2020.
Here's the thing with the Philly trade though - if the Kings make the playoffs for the next three years they'll essentially lose the draft pick they already owed Chicago next year and transfer a non lottery pick to the Sixers in three years. The pick swaps don't mean much if the Kings make the playoffs and the Sixers don't. And even if Hinkie pulls it all together and the Sixers are a shocking playoff team in two years, we'd at worst be looking at moving from 16 to 20 or something along those lines.
Now if the Kings DON'T make the playoffs for the next three years then we're likely losing Cousins and starting over anyway. It was a gamble worth taking, regardless of how much the national media wants to hammer the Kings for the trade.
Now if the Kings DON'T make the playoffs for the next three years then we're likely losing Cousins and starting over anyway. It was a gamble worth taking, regardless of how much the national media wants to hammer the Kings for the trade.
TheGOAT1006
G-League
Exactly. I think the worry was what we would do with the cap space and I definitely think Vlade did exceptionally well to fill it.
Now this is the part I don't get, you say "start over anyway" like it doesn't matter what you are starting with. if we won't make the playoffs and lose Cousins, we will have a really hard time rebuilding without the ability to trade a pick till 2022(!), those pick swaps will become valuable to the 76ers and we will probably give a really high pick to them in 2020.
I'm hoping that we will make the playoffs, and truly believe we have a chance to do that- and you can say this was a gamble worth taking. but saying that it doesn't matter because it was going to happen anyway isn't the right way to look at things- if you can go into rebuild like the Bucks or like the Knicks you would much rather be the Bucks... and blowing it all up when you don't have the right to your own pick is a much less attractive notion.
Now let's hope this all discussion is pointless because we'll make the playoffs!
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ockingsfan
Starter
According to this article, the Kings can actually get a nice $16 million traded player exception (TPE) from the Philly trade, IF they sign Rondo and WCS contracts first, to get them go over the salary cap, before making the Philly trade final.
That would be great to have a trump card of $16 million TPE to play with for more moves.
Quick, someone needs to make sure that Vlade is aware of this loophole to get the TPE, before July 9th!!!
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macadocious
Starter
So we could absorb up to a 16MM salary even though we would be above the cap?
A rebuild is a rebuild. I don't think you can hedge your bets hoping to win now but keeping all your assets just in case you have to start a rebuild. What that would essentially entail is returning the exact same roster as last season plus Cauley-Stein. The same roster that won 29 games. The same roster that our previous GM called "Philadelphia bad" whenever Cousins didn't play.
The Bucks aren't rebuilding - unless you mean from the 2000-2001 team that had Ray Allen, Glenn Robinson & Sam Cassell who went to the Eastern Conference Finals. Since then they've had two winning seasons and been bounced from the playoffs in the first round each time they snuck in, including twice with losing records. They've been in flux for a long time and until recently when Antetokounmpo panned out, Brandon Jennings got turned into Michael Carter Williams (via Brandon Knight) and Khris Middleton and Jabari Parker got drafted. The Bucks have been "rebuilding" for over a decade and now they actually have a really nice core, including Monroe who I think will be an ideal fit with them. No, the Bucks are now where we hope the Kings will be next season. And to get there moves had to be made.
I won't even touch on the Knicks since I'm not even sure what Jackson is doing right now.
But the larger point is this. Yeah, it'll suck if the Kings end up being forced to trade Cousins or lose him for nothing in free agency. And it will especially suck if they don't have a draft pick when that happens. But the Kings have now had 9 straight lottery picks (all but one - Jason Thompson - in the top 10) and only three of them - Boogie, Ben & WCS - are still with the team and only one of those nine picks has even made an all-star team.
I know we're conditioned as Kings fans to always think about rebuilding but we've got lightning in a bottle with Cousins and we have to go all in now. Unfortunately the only way to do that was by giving up yet another draft pick - especially when draft picks and their low guaranteed salaries will be increasingly valuable going forward. But the only other options were to stand pat or blow it up preemptively. And honestly I don't see either of those as valid options anyway.
iowamcnabb
Hall of Famer
He mentions 38 wins would be a step in the right direction but I'll have to disagree. This is not a young team anymore. 6 guys in their prime, a hall of fame coach and a superstar better net us 45 plus wins or it all gets blown up.
twslam07
All-Star
According to this article, the Kings can actually get a nice $16 million traded player exception (TPE) from the Philly trade, IF they sign Rondo and WCS contracts first, to get them go over the salary cap, before making the Philly trade final.
That would be great to have a trump card of $16 million TPE to play with for more moves.
Quick, someone needs to make sure that Vlade is aware of this loophole to get the TPE, before July 9th!!!
If you sign WCS first, you're going to lose some cap space. Rookie's cap hold is almost always lower than the contract they sign because they usually always sign for 120% of what the cap hold is. It's not much cap space (probably around $500K), but with us being at ~3.2 mil in cap space right now, every bit of it counts.
If you were to tell me we could sign Josh Smith to come off the bench or have a $16 mil TPE, I think I would lean towards Josh Smith. I wouldn't be against getting the TPE (would be pretty sweet if we picked up Chandler with it), but I just wanted to let everyone know that signing WCS first cuts into our cap space.
I think the idea is you sign rondo and wcs, and Casspi with the cap space we already had since we could already afford those deals (plus room exception), then we execute the phili trade creating the tpe, and use the 16m from that to sign everyone else which allows for a bit of space on top of what we've spent. So maybe an additional 3 or 4m to spend after koufos and belinelli?
And here's the other thing. When Malone was fired the Kings were STILL on pace for 36 wins. That was after the most brutal stretch of their schedule AND after 10 straight games without Cousins. Had Malone not been fired I think the Kings would have won 38 games last year. If healthy I think 38 games next season would actually be a disappointment.
I think there's a very good chance that Dallas and the Clippers win fewer games next season. The Warriors should actually be an even better team but they were amazingly healthy last year. I might expect them to lose a few more games due to injuries (though it's good to see Curry's ankles finally holding up) next season. Memphis may take a small step back as their main pieces continue to age and with a style that wears on guys more and of course if Houston lost Harden the way the Kings lost Cousins last year they'd tumble a bit. That's without mentioning that Portland should be a lottery team next year.
San Antonio will almost certainly be a top seed. Utah will likely be better, New Orleans (again depending on health) should also improve and the Thunder should be a contender again.
So lots of things in flux but I don't see why the Kings couldn't be a 7th or 8th seed next season.
1. Warriors
2. Spurs
3. Rockets
4. Thunder
5. Grizzlies
would leave the Mavs, Clippers, Pelicans, Suns, Jazz and Kings fighting for those last two slots.
Honestly I like those odds.
Section 101
All-Star
My understanding is the swaps is only the next 2 drafts.
Section 101
All-Star
Thunder will miss the playoffs. Durant will play few games this year.
EIM86
Starter
The swap picks are for 2016 and 2017.
Big Cuz 15
All-Star
don't mean s&&& if we don't have picks & cousins cuz we'll have a gang of capspace again!!!!! yeow!!
According to this article, the Kings can actually get a nice $16 million traded player exception (TPE) from the Philly trade, IF they sign Rondo and WCS contracts first, to get them go over the salary cap, before making the Philly trade final.
That would be great to have a trump card of $16 million TPE to play with for more moves.
Quick, someone needs to make sure that Vlade is aware of this loophole to get the TPE, before July 9th!!!
That article is wrong. It has been pointed out several times in the comments (including first by yours truly - such a surprise!). The bottom line is that no matter how you create a trade exception, it counts against the cap. You have to renounce it to use the cap space that it covers. You can have the trade exception, or you can have the cap space to sign free agents, but you can't have both.
And that could very well be the case. I think you'll see Durant move on from the Thunder if they don't have an amazing run this year.
But my only real thought is that people (especially national NBA writers) love to lock in certain teams as playoff squads in July and use that to say the Kings won't possibly make the postseason. But that's why they play the games. The Warriors are flat out a much better team than the Kings if healthy. But beyond that?
What makes the Rockets, the Mavs, the Grizzlies or Thunder superior squads? The Spurs will make the playoffs but were a sixth seed last season. Duncan, Parker and Ginobili (if he returns) are all a year older and they lost Joseph and Splitter who were key role players. LaMarcus Aldridge is a great player and Leonard is still growing into a star but I'm not sure they are the surefire #1 or #2 seed that some are making them out to be.
Either way, the Kings should set their sights high this season. There's no reason why they can't be a surprise playoff team.
agree, and more stuff that is out of "kings are baaad" book, that is why I put baby steps comment.
Do the pick swaps expire at some point? Thought it was by 2018 right?
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