Kings extend offer to Chuck Hayes - 4 yr $20 mil

ok watching youtube video of this guy, does he not remind anyone of Ron Artest with two tree trunks for legs? His quickness is incredible, has great hands and not even the biggest of men can back him down. Seriously the man child Blake Griffin couldn't even budge Chuck from his defensive position. I like this signing more and more.
 
He was noted with a rep of being a tough guy that will stand in and take a hit. Call it scrappy, call it defensive. Call it both. Call it whatever you want it. My point being is that he was highly-touted when he came here and was gone before we knew it.

So Landry = Hayes because Rockets fans loved them both and they are tough? They have completely different strengths as players.
 
Barring a suprise signing of Dally, im 90% sure that Chuck will be starting for us alongside Cousins on opening day. His best strength is post defense, so whats the point of bringing him off the bench when the other teams play their reserves. He has to start on the best post defender and contain them from the beginning. So for those who think Hayes will be our 4th big man off the bench playing for 10 minutes, you are sorely mistaken. Chuck will be playing 25-30 mpg consistently.

First of all, Chuck Hayes is not the signing I wanted to see. However, I'm not going to judge this offer until I see what happens to Dalembert and Chandler.

If Dalembert goes for 13 million and Chandler goes for 15 million, then I'll be content with Hayes at 5 million.
If Dalembert ends up going for around 10 million, then I won't be happy, though it's possible that if given a choice between the Kings and another team (such as Houston) with both offering 10 million, he is a FA and can pick his spots.
If he ends up somewhere else for 8 million, then I'll be really upset.

I also want to mention that I would rather sign Hayes to a 5 million/year deal then spend 10+ million for Nene, because while Hayes isn't a shot-blocker, at least he brings things to the table which can gel with our young stars. He's a good post defender, a respectable passer, doesn't require the ball, a hard worker, and he's a team guy.
Finally, perhaps he can be a mentor to Cousins via the Kentucky connection, and if so, that would justify most of contract right there.

People have said it, and I just want to agree. The signing of Hayes for the contract, is actually a good signing. It's just the ramifications of the signing (Potentially losing our chance at an elite shot-blocking defender) which makes this more unpalatable than it would be in other cases.

I quoted the above, because, unfortunately I agree with it. I think the odds are slim that we end up with Dalembert. And if that's the case, I actually do think that Hayes will be our starter, and I'm not thrilled with that. I'd prefer him to be a big off the bench, to help with defense when needed, rather than a starter.

As to the comparisons between Landry and Hayes, they need to stop. Yes they are both tough guys, but are complete opposite players. Hayes' defense and rebounding compliments Tyreke and Cousins in a way that Landry's post-scoring would never do.

One other thing which I believe Hayes can really do is teach our young bigs how to set proper screens. I think that on the offensive end, Hayes can really help the offense with his screen-setting, and hopefully pass that on to the rest of our bigs.

All-in-all, it's just way too early for me to get bent-out-of-shape with this potential signing. Free-agency hasn't even really begun yet, so I'd like to see how things play out first, before praising or condeming the Kings organization.
This isn't the start I wanted to see, but there's still a ton of time and cap-space available for moves to be made.
 
Guys if the Kings sell this as a finished product I'll be shocked. There will be more moves to come, I'm sure of it. He'll put the right team around Evans and Cousins.

Oh there will be more moves but not any significant ones before the trade dead line at least. Its going to be a case of sign Hayes, let Dally walk and re-sign Thornton. Fill in some gaps with cheap one year deals and off we go. They will sell it a having salary cap room and salary cap flexibility but never really intend to utilise it on players that matter because those sort of players can't be signed for MLE unless they are on their rookie contracts.

The owners are broke, the front office is confused on what it takes to be a winner and its a volatile mix that will lead nowhere fast. When it comes to Maloofs, Donald Sterling will be forgotten.
 
So Landry = Hayes because Rockets fans loved them both and they are tough? They have completely different strengths as players.

I never called Landry and Hayes the same player or equal. My point was that just as Landry was highly touted coming from Houston, he sucked here. Hayes is also very highly touted by certain people. I don't believe that he will fit on our team. Am I wrong? I hope so!
 
Some guy just tweeted this about Hayes:
Michael Eaves

Chuck Hayes could be signing deal with #Sacramento. That is not good news for Blake Griffin or Pau Gasol. Four guaranteed games vs one of the best bangers in #NBA.
 
I would agree with you if we didn't spend a draft pick (and a pretty good one, early second round) on Hassan Whiteside and then traded for Samuel Dalembert. Two shotblockers in one offseason is quite a change of philosophy for the Kings. Unfortunetly it looks like we have lost Dalembert, but I don't think that means we have abandoned the idea of interior defense. Going after Hayes instead of David West or Carl Landry should show you something too. Hayes isn't perfect, but he also isn't the solution. He is also not getting paid like the solution.

He also isn't Spencer Hawes or Brad Miller. Its easy to say 'Petrie keeps giving us undersized garbage' but just because he is short doesn't mean he is the kind of player Petrie has ALWAYS gone after. It's just not true. We spent money on defense. That is not a classic Petrie move.. it's right in line with the shift to toughness and defense we have been trying to make since we drafted Evans.

Whiteside was arguably the biggest slider in the draft and it was a no brainer to get him with a 2nd round pick. In fact some had him as a smokey for the late lottery. It was a classic high risk high reward pick that you go for.

Petrie has never valued the 2nd round picks. He is quick to include them in trades and doesn't waste a great deal of energy in getting them right. In fact, I am not sure if he ever selected a good player with his 2nd round pick.

As for Dalembert, it was clearly a move for salary cap flexibility. He traded a player he didn't even want to draft in Hawes. The same player was also disgruntled and even got suspended for calling out his coach publicly about the lack of defined roles. Along with Hawes he traded a little used, overpaid disgruntled veteran who also happen to get done for the DUI while in Sacramento.

Petrie has NEVER actively seeked to add that type of player to his team as a key piece of the puzzle. They have either been moves for salary cap flexibility, or as a bench player or as a roster filler. When he actually got one, they never stuck around for longer than 18 months.

There is nothing in Petrie's history that suggest he covets that type of player. In fact its completely the opposite.
 
Barring a suprise signing of Dally, im 90% sure that Chuck will be starting for us alongside Cousins on opening day. His best strength is post defense, so whats the point of bringing him off the bench when the other teams play their reserves. He has to start on the best post defender and contain them from the beginning. So for those who think Hayes will be our 4th big man off the bench playing for 10 minutes, you are sorely mistaken. Chuck will be playing 25-30 mpg consistently.

And that in itself is the problem. With all due respects, Chuck is not a starter on a serious play off team. You are absolutely right in that he will be consistently getting minutes and some starts because with our broke owners, we ain't paying anyone $20 million over 4 years to be a 4th or 5th big. That's one way to kill the salary cap flexibility.
 
Wow Hayes at 5 million a pop. And people were bashing Darko making 4 mill a season. I rather have him than 6'6" Hayes

Oh but there is a difference, Kings offered Hayes that money so the mood goes from disbelief to convincing yourself that this was a great signing. Where as when its the other team, then you don't do any convincing because a **** deal first time around is still a **** deal few hours later. There is no homerism factor.
 
Based on what? All of the other moves that got us here in the first place? Its not sour grapes. Go back and look at the moves that started 3-4 years ago. It was sold time and again as freeing up dollars to make us players in the free agent market. It then kept getting kicked down the road to the next year. This was supposed to finally be that year. I will happily eat dwayne schintzius's shoe if geoff proves me wrong and still adds the pieces we need this offseason.


I completely disagree with the notion that you go out and lock yourself into a finished product when you don't even know what you have yet. Signing a "big name" would be great, but there has to be a "big name" to sign and right now I can't justify signing anyone of the guys out there now for their asking prices. That might change, we'll see on friday, but I don't think the Kings were looking for this free agency class to set the tone for their future, there's nothing there with that kind of value. The smartest thing you can do when you're in a rebuild is keep things open and I hate to tell you, but last I checked the Kings were the youngest team in the league. Last I checked it also had some major potential youngsters coming out of their ears. I remember the Kenny Thomas/Mikki Moore days, I'm loving these Kings right now and love the addition of Hayes.
 
I would agree with you if we didn't spend a draft pick (and a pretty good one, early second round) on Hassan Whiteside and then traded for Samuel Dalembert. Two shotblockers in one offseason is quite a change of philosophy for the Kings. Unfortunetly it looks like we have lost Dalembert, but I don't think that means we have abandoned the idea of interior defense. Going after Hayes instead of David West or Carl Landry should show you something too. Hayes isn't perfect, but he also isn't the solution. He is also not getting paid like the solution.

He also isn't Spencer Hawes or Brad Miller. Its easy to say 'Petrie keeps giving us undersized garbage' but just because he is short doesn't mean he is the kind of player Petrie has ALWAYS gone after. It's just not true. We spent money on defense. That is not a classic Petrie move.. it's right in line with the shift to toughness and defense we have been trying to make since we drafted Evans.

Very good points. Petrie shunned his own supposed mentality and went after one of the MOST defensive oriented players on the market. I'd figure people would be bouncing off the walls. The Petrie people seem to think exists would have signed David West and called it a day.
 
Anyone who is buying that this is a good move signing Hayes, please refer to the Landry signing. Tough, scrappy, defensive fan favorite from the Rockets comes to Sac and busts. Hayes is 3 inches shorter than Landry and a worse offensive player. No thank you.


First off, Landry never came here as a defensive player. Hayes is well known for his defense and has been for a few years.
 
Oh but there is a difference, Kings offered Hayes that money so the mood goes from disbelief to convincing yourself that this was a great signing. Where as when its the other team, then you don't do any convincing because a **** deal first time around is still a **** deal few hours later. There is no homerism factor.


There will be much crow, on one side or the other, hahahaha.
 
There will be much crow, on one side or the other, hahahaha.

Hayes is not a crap player but he is not the right fit for this team. If you paired him with a C who was a genuine offensive force and a shot blocker (David Robinson, The Dream, Ewing etc) then he is a great fit. Your Haslem to your Shaq but on a team that has NO shot blocking presence in its rotation, it is not a good fit. Its a patch job and rather expensive one for what we need.
 
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_y...52gJm8vLYF?slug=ys-nba_free_agent_buzz_120811
…League sources confirmed an ESPN.com report that the Sacramento Kings have made a four-year, $21 million offer to free-agent forward Chuck Hayes(notes). The offer could be hard for the Modesto, Calif., native to pass on. Still, the Timberwolves are preparing their own offer for Hayes, who could decide between the two teams Thursday. Hayes has a strong relationship with new T’wolves coach Rick Adelman from their days together in Houston. …

Hopefully Minny is more stupid than us and comes with a 4 year, $25-30 million so we dodge the bullets on this one.
 
I don't know GP but signing that funny free-throw shooter is one bad move.
 
I think this skit perfectly sums up my response to the Salmons and Hayes moves...sheesh!

 
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please. Hickson was a major up and comer last year and Casspi was a headache. That's already a win. Nocioni/Dalembert is now just 1 more year of Nocioni for Philly. That's a win. Thornton is restricted and the Maloofs are calling him priority 1A. With the amount of money we have to spend, I'm 99% sure he's going to sign with us.

No need to lessen those moves just because we lose Dalembert. They were all big wins.
Chucking on the worst team in the NBA does not make you an up and comer. Jason Thompson could have done the same thing.
 
Chucking on the worst team in the NBA does not make you an up and comer. Jason Thompson could have done the same thing.

Umm ... I respectfully disagree. And I actually like JT, but somehow I did not see the improvement that you did in the later part of last season. JJ impressed me even when Lebron was still on the Cavs
 
Very good addition to the team for minimal salary cap expense. Very good defender; tough as nails, winner. I like it. Seems like the anti-Cousins in terms of his non-complaining approach to the game.

Everybody is jumping to conclusions now that we won't sign Dalembert or that we won't have a lengthy weakside defender. I don't see why. This is only a $5 mill/year deal, so the Kings have plenty still in the coffers for other additions. Standing alone, this is a good deal.
 
No, just no. Am I the only one that's seen Hayes play? Landry is an iso scorer, Hayes is a defensive role player that can pass really well considering his offensive talent level. Hayes isn't just limited to dirty work, it's just a nice addition to his true value and strength, DEFENSE.

You're not alone SacTown. I'm totally on board. I think there are people unappy with the deal because they are making assumptions now about who we're not going to get in FA.
 
WTF, an overpaid-undersized F who can't fcuking make FTs. WTF?
they are driving the Kings out of sacramento with this move.
 
Hayes signing analysis via couple of sources:

Chuck Hayes on verge of deal to join Sacramento Kings

The Sacramento Kings may just have lined up some good post defense.

The Kings have made a four year, $20 million offer to the free agent forward who played his entire career for the Rockets, reports Marc Stein of ESPN. What’s more, it looks like Hayes will take the deal.

The Kings will have a pretty crowded front court, with DeMarcus Cousins (more of a four/five), J.J. Hickson and Jason Thompson, but Hayes brings far more consistent play and better defense than any of the other guys. Hayes is a good rebounder, a good passer and a fairly efficient shooter who gave the Rockets 7.9 points and 8.1 rebounds a game last season. But really, you want him for his defense.

Hayes grew up in Modesto, a town in California’s farming community not that far from Sacramento.

There is still time for another team to best that offer, but not by much if at all. And it might not be worth it if Hayes wants to return to his roots.

http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports....rge-of-deal-to-join-sacramento-kings/#respond
 
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Clearly an official offer has been made. I think you can agree in principle to deals but they can't be signed until friday.

http://www.nba.com/2011/news/11/29/nba-facilities-opening.ap/index.html

For the first time since the lockout began on July 1, NBA players are going to be welcomed back to their team facilities, said league spokesman Tim Frank. The league sent a memo to clubs Tuesday announcing the move, plus giving teams permission to begin speaking with agents at 9 a.m. Wednesday -- though deals cannot yet be offered, and no contracts can be signed before Dec. 9.
 
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