Kings extend offer to Chuck Hayes - 4 yr $20 mil

He's not Dalembert, but there are a lot of things right about Hayes:

doesn't need offense
plays within himself
solid rebounder
very good man defender
coming into his prime
salary of a 6-7th man
tough vet with leadership qualities

Might still be able to get Dalembert if he strikes out in Houston.
 
If the Kings don't use the immense amount of money available as they promised, I wonder if it puts the new arena in jeopardy. This may be off topic, but I would have a hard time keeping up the momentum necessary to get the money knowing that the ownerhip cannot be believed. They have enough money to get a genuine impact player and they aren't doing it. This of course is based on very little REAL information as Petrie seldom if ever tips his hand. So far, if this thing about Hayes is true and the apparent lack of effort in going after a big man is as lackluster as it seems does not inspire me at all.

Their moves are playing to a bigger audience than just us on this forum. They are playing to the people who will or will not build an arena.
 
No, we've BROUGHT BACK multiple guiys for good money. Some dude named Webber being perhaps the most famous. But Martin, Bibby, Christie etc. etc.

But atracting new guys? No that's where the small market curse is in full effect. Vlade remains the biggest, and despiut being an important figure for us this was a guy platooning with Matt Geiger at the time he signed with us.

Right, but if my memory is correct a few of those guys were extended before they were able to test free agency or they were restricted so they didn't have much of a choice.

And Webber would be the only one of those making 'Dalembert' money.

I put most of the blame on the current Kings roster and Westphal for not selling Dalembert on this team all year. For jerking him around in the rotation. For the players acting just dumb for a lot of the year .. Sometimes it was Cousins being an ***, or Evans hogging the ball .. Casspi complaining about playing time... Antione Wright putting the team on blast.

Add everything up from last year and we really sold Dalembert on leaving more than we did on staying.

Unfortunetly we are one of the two least attractive teams in the league right now. I'd put the Wolves right up their because David Kahn is a running joke around the league.

But all of this is really more about why we aren't going to keep Dalembert and why I don't blame him for leaving to go to a better spot .. just to bring it all back to Hayes, will all of these things considered .. once I convinced myself Dalembert wasn't coming back, I think this deal is fine. I guess what i'm trying to say is that I don't think we replaced Dalembert with Hayes. We just had to get Hayes as a result of losing Dalembert .. something that was out of our control.

The contract isn't crippling if it doesn't work out, and the odds of him sucking are pretty low. He's solid, steady, and in his prime.

If we can stop campairing him to Dalembert it's a much easier pill to swallow, because obviously anyone with half a brain would rather have Sam. Chuck isn't our future next to Cousins. I don't think that player is on the roster yet. As much as i'd like to have that long defensive shotblocker right now, by the time we would actually be playing at a championship level Dalembert would be on a big decline.
 
If the Kings don't use the immense amount of money available as they promised, I wonder if it puts the new arena in jeopardy. This may be off topic, but I would have a hard time keeping up the momentum necessary to get the money knowing that the ownerhip cannot be believed. They have enough money to get a genuine impact player and they aren't doing it. This of course is based on very little REAL information as Petrie seldom if ever tips his hand. So far, if this thing about Hayes is true and the apparent lack of effort in going after a big man is as lackluster as it seems does not inspire me at all.

Their moves are playing to a bigger audience than just us on this forum. They are playing to the people who will or will not build an arena.

It has no bearing on the new arena. It does show the viability of their continued ownership.
 
Did we really not have any shot at TC, Nene, or Dally?

Oh no! We had the shot and as a team with the most salary cap room, you always had the shot. The difference is that it is as clear as daylight that as an organization we do not value athletic shotblockers. We never have and we never will as long as we have the same administration in place.

Add to that the owners that are obviously on the verge of bankruptcy and as such are treating the Kings as a business and not a hobby and you have a disaster on your hands. People say that paying Dalembert $10 million is over-paying but this 4 years @ $5million for a stubby undersized player that creates absolutely no offensive threat and is not a great defender of true big man is a nice deal?!

We are really going down the path of Cavs here who for years signed up rubbish as "help for LeBron" and we know how all of that ended up. For the love of god I sincerely hope that we don't experience the same thing here because the decisions that we seem to be making since the lockout completed is heading right down that path. I could name at least half a dozen players that would be better gets but the problem for our owners is that they are payed better precisely because they are better players.

You only get what you pay for and we seem to love and embrace mediocrity. Well done Kings hierarchy for screwing this thing up. People will say there must be another plan. We seem to hear those excuses every time a questionable decision is made. We keep hanging on for that "something else in the work" and it never comes. There is no pro-activeness in our franchise, its all about mediocrity. We don't know what it takes to win. There is the "lets try this and see if it works" mentality. Unlike a team with a clear plan on what it takes and how to get there.

Lets take OKC as an example. They traded or drafted length, toughness and shot-blocking. They head hunted a tall defensive specialist for years and were prepared to blow their cap space on that type of player. First they traded for Chandler when teams were reluctant to taken on his contract. Sure the trade was rescinded due to a turf toe injury but the intent was clear to get that type of player. Then 12 months later they trade for the same type of player and offer him a contract extension when many teams were unclear what the new CBA will be like and what the salary cap structure will look like. We tend to trade for these types of players as a salary shedding exercise because they have an expiring contract.

You can mark my words, there won't be any other follow up moves. We won't re-sign Dalembert and we certainly won't sign Chandler or Jordan. We might take a look at Nene because we like non-rebounding bigs (Mikki Moore anyone?!) or undersized stubby bigs (Kenny Thomas, Sean May, and that fat scrub that played for Clippers that we signed a few years ago....and now Chuck Hayes). This front office is allergic to size and defense. If you are defensive specialist and you are big, this is not the place for you.
 
The Kings obviously have rarely been in the financial situation they are right now during Petries tenure. I can't recall the Kings having this much space, let alone with the YOUNGEST team in the league. Also, I'm sorry, but in the talent department alone this is a fairly weak free agent class, we all knew this for a long time. No matter how many times you look at the list you're not going to see that huge dreamy free agent that is a must have. Wouldn't mind getting any of them but it's not a no brainer here and with the new CBA I think you're looking at a two max star limit moving forward. It's like the draft, getting a high pick is great and all, but at some point you have to stop celebrating the number and really look at the player representing that number.

This was never about getting a huge dreamy FA. It was aboit finally figuring out we needed an interior defensive presence, having that presence fit well next to our potential star big, having enough money to sign that player (or other suitable replacements) and instead handing out the very mid level type contracts that got us into this mess to an undersized big that doesnt fit our need, while probably pricing our penny pinching owners into not being able to fit that all important need.
 
Guys if the Kings sell this as a finished product I'll be shocked. There will be more moves to come, I'm sure of it. He'll put the right team around Evans and Cousins.
 
what the **** is the front office thinking? lets just trade ALL of our size and sign midgets. can we bring carl and kenny back?
 
If we can stop campairing him to Dalembert it's a much easier pill to swallow, because obviously anyone with half a brain would rather have Sam. Chuck isn't our future next to Cousins. I don't think that player is on the roster yet. As much as i'd like to have that long defensive shotblocker right now, by the time we would actually be playing at a championship level Dalembert would be on a big decline.

At my most optimistic, I would say Hassan in 6 years might be adequate next to Cousins and the correct age. All we have to do is either wait 5-6 years and find some one to mentor Hassan.

BTW, can Harbaugh coach basketball? A huge hole in this whole plan for greatness is poor leadership in the coaching slot.

I find the news of today to be depressing. Time for some sleep and see what tomorrow brings.
 
Guys if the Kings sell this as a finished product I'll be shocked. There will be more moves to come, I'm sure of it. He'll put the right team around Evans and Cousins.

Based on what? All of the other moves that got us here in the first place? Its not sour grapes. Go back and look at the moves that started 3-4 years ago. It was sold time and again as freeing up dollars to make us players in the free agent market. It then kept getting kicked down the road to the next year. This was supposed to finally be that year. I will happily eat dwayne schintzius's shoe if geoff proves me wrong and still adds the pieces we need this offseason.
 
Oh no! We had the shot and as a team with the most salary cap room, you always had the shot. The difference is that it is as clear as daylight that as an organization we do not value athletic shotblockers. We never have and we never will as long as we have the same administration in place.

Add to that the owners that are obviously on the verge of bankruptcy and as such are treating the Kings as a business and not a hobby and you have a disaster on your hands. People say that paying Dalembert $10 million is over-paying but this 4 years @ $5million for a stubby undersized player that creates absolutely no offensive threat and is not a great defender of true big man is a nice deal?!

We are really going down the path of Cavs here who for years signed up rubbish as "help for LeBron" and we know how all of that ended up. For the love of god I sincerely hope that we don't experience the same thing here because the decisions that we seem to be making since the lockout completed is heading right down that path. I could name at least half a dozen players that would be better gets but the problem for our owners is that they are payed better precisely because they are better players.

You only get what you pay for and we seem to love and embrace mediocrity. Well done Kings hierarchy for screwing this thing up. People will say there must be another plan. We seem to hear those excuses every time a questionable decision is made. We keep hanging on for that "something else in the work" and it never comes. There is no pro-activeness in our franchise, its all about mediocrity. We don't know what it takes to win. There is the "lets try this and see if it works" mentality. Unlike a team with a clear plan on what it takes and how to get there.

Lets take OKC as an example. They traded or drafted length, toughness and shot-blocking. They head hunted a tall defensive specialist for years and were prepared to blow their cap space on that type of player. First they traded for Chandler when teams were reluctant to taken on his contract. Sure the trade was rescinded due to a turf toe injury but the intent was clear to get that type of player. Then 12 months later they trade for the same type of player and offer him a contract extension when many teams were unclear what the new CBA will be like and what the salary cap structure will look like. We tend to trade for these types of players as a salary shedding exercise because they have an expiring contract.

You can mark my words, there won't be any other follow up moves. We won't re-sign Dalembert and we certainly won't sign Chandler or Jordan. We might take a look at Nene because we like non-rebounding bigs (Mikki Moore anyone?!) or undersized stubby bigs (Kenny Thomas, Sean May, and that fat scrub that played for Clippers that we signed a few years ago....and now Chuck Hayes). This front office is allergic to size and defense. If you are defensive specialist and you are big, this is not the place for you.

Interesting you bring up Cleveland vs OKC.

As a small market team we are clearly in danger of losing Tyreke and Cousins if we don't play this right. They will sign max extensions from their rookie deals but when those deals are up we need to have a contending team in place to keep them.

The Cavs overpaid early for guys to try and get Lebron far into the playoffs. Believe it or not Larry Hughes was actually a pretty hot free agent signing at the time. They just missed, timed it wrong, and started getting desperate. Antawn, Shaq, etc right at the end.

OKC is doing it right because by the time Durant is up to sign his next extension he's going to have Westbrook, Harden, and Perkins all peaking at that time. Chandler may have not been the right choice for them. If we want to contend with Tyreke and Cousins we're going to need that PF/C that is peaking in 5 years, not on the verge of retirement. Dalembert is not going to be the final guy to win the title with Tyreke and Cousins. As much as it will suck to lose Dalembert (and it will) at least he's not costing us our superstars and future.
 
Oh no! We had the shot and as a team with the most salary cap room, you always had the shot. The difference is that it is as clear as daylight that as an organization we do not value athletic shotblockers. We never have and we never will as long as we have the same administration in place.

Add to that the owners that are obviously on the verge of bankruptcy and as such are treating the Kings as a business and not a hobby and you have a disaster on your hands. People say that paying Dalembert $10 million is over-paying but this 4 years @ $5million for a stubby undersized player that creates absolutely no offensive threat and is not a great defender of true big man is a nice deal?!

We are really going down the path of Cavs here who for years signed up rubbish as "help for LeBron" and we know how all of that ended up. For the love of god I sincerely hope that we don't experience the same thing here because the decisions that we seem to be making since the lockout completed is heading right down that path. I could name at least half a dozen players that would be better gets but the problem for our owners is that they are payed better precisely because they are better players.

You only get what you pay for and we seem to love and embrace mediocrity. Well done Kings hierarchy for screwing this thing up. People will say there must be another plan. We seem to hear those excuses every time a questionable decision is made. We keep hanging on for that "something else in the work" and it never comes. There is no pro-activeness in our franchise, its all about mediocrity. We don't know what it takes to win. There is the "lets try this and see if it works" mentality. Unlike a team with a clear plan on what it takes and how to get there.

Lets take OKC as an example. They traded or drafted length, toughness and shot-blocking. They head hunted a tall defensive specialist for years and were prepared to blow their cap space on that type of player. First they traded for Chandler when teams were reluctant to taken on his contract. Sure the trade was rescinded due to a turf toe injury but the intent was clear to get that type of player. Then 12 months later they trade for the same type of player and offer him a contract extension when many teams were unclear what the new CBA will be like and what the salary cap structure will look like. We tend to trade for these types of players as a salary shedding exercise because they have an expiring contract.

You can mark my words, there won't be any other follow up moves. We won't re-sign Dalembert and we certainly won't sign Chandler or Jordan. We might take a look at Nene because we like non-rebounding bigs (Mikki Moore anyone?!) or undersized stubby bigs (Kenny Thomas, Sean May, and that fat scrub that played for Clippers that we signed a few years ago....and now Chuck Hayes). This front office is allergic to size and defense. If you are defensive specialist and you are big, this is not the place for you.

I would agree with you if we didn't spend a draft pick (and a pretty good one, early second round) on Hassan Whiteside and then traded for Samuel Dalembert. Two shotblockers in one offseason is quite a change of philosophy for the Kings. Unfortunetly it looks like we have lost Dalembert, but I don't think that means we have abandoned the idea of interior defense. Going after Hayes instead of David West or Carl Landry should show you something too. Hayes isn't perfect, but he also isn't the solution. He is also not getting paid like the solution.

He also isn't Spencer Hawes or Brad Miller. Its easy to say 'Petrie keeps giving us undersized garbage' but just because he is short doesn't mean he is the kind of player Petrie has ALWAYS gone after. It's just not true. We spent money on defense. That is not a classic Petrie move.. it's right in line with the shift to toughness and defense we have been trying to make since we drafted Evans.
 
Based on what? All of the other moves that got us here in the first place? Its not sour grapes. Go back and look at the moves that started 3-4 years ago. It was sold time and again as freeing up dollars to make us players in the free agent market. It then kept getting kicked down the road to the next year. This was supposed to finally be that year. I will happily eat dwayne schintzius's shoe if geoff proves me wrong and still adds the pieces we need this offseason.

Petrie is also the guy that turned Hawes/Nocioni into Dalembert, Landry into Thornton, Casspi into Hickson, and drafted Tyreke / Cousins.

He has his moments. Letting Dalembert go it probably just not one of them.
 
Throwing out bad money just to throw money out doesnt do us any good. I like the hayes signing. We got him at a good price. I am sure we are not done. Its not always about getting the best or most expensive players, its about getting the right ones. Dallas won as a team and beat the team with the money guys.
 
Throwing out bad money just to throw money out doesnt do us any good. I like the hayes signing. We got him at a good price. I am sure we are not done. Its not always about getting the best or most expensive players, its about getting the right ones. Dallas won as a team and beat the team with the money guys.

And they did that in big part to the interior defense they have in chandler. Also, im pretty sure dallas had a bigger payroll than miami.
 
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Petrie is also the guy that turned Hawes/Nocioni into Dalembert, Landry into Thornton, Casspi into Hickson, and drafted Tyreke / Cousins.

He has his moments. Letting Dalembert go it probably just not one of them.

He always drafts well. The rest of those moves are tbd. Hawes/nocioni could very well turn into hayes/kwame brown, thornton isnt signed yet and hickson has yet to play a minute for us.
 
He always drafts well. The rest of those moves are tbd. Hawes/nocioni could very well turn into hayes/kwame brown, thornton isnt signed yet and hickson has yet to play a minute for us.

please. Hickson was a major up and comer last year and Casspi was a headache. That's already a win. Nocioni/Dalembert is now just 1 more year of Nocioni for Philly. That's a win. Thornton is restricted and the Maloofs are calling him priority 1A. With the amount of money we have to spend, I'm 99% sure he's going to sign with us.

No need to lessen those moves just because we lose Dalembert. They were all big wins.
 
Petrie is also the guy that turned Hawes/Nocioni into Dalembert, Landry into Thornton, Casspi into Hickson, and drafted Tyreke / Cousins.

He has his moments. Letting Dalembert go it probably just not one of them.

Over his career here, he has a record.

Drafting players. Great.
Trading players. Very good.
Paying players appropriately and managing a cap. Below average.

Petrie helped make the 2000 Kings by locking Peja and BJax to great contacts. Over the next ten years, a lot more bad contacts than good.

Great eye for talent. Soso business sense.
 
Carl Landry was a fan favorite here too when he was playing well. Then he became inconsistent and his rebounding deficiencies became a detriment to the team.

Anyone who is buying that this is a good move signing Hayes, please refer to the Landry signing. Tough, scrappy, defensive fan favorite from the Rockets comes to Sac and busts. Hayes is 3 inches shorter than Landry and a worse offensive player. No thank you.
 
Over his career here, he has a record.

Drafting players. Great.
Trading players. Very good.
Paying players appropriately and managing a cap. Below average.

Petrie helped make the 2000 Kings by locking Peja and BJax to great contacts. Over the next ten years, a lot more bad contacts than good.

Great eye for talent. Soso business sense.

I agree with this. He's strong in areas and severely lacking in others. Considering we just rebuilt the foundation of the team, his superior drafting/talent trading skills have been on display. Let's hope he's gone should the Kings ever need to retool again. That was nearly unbearable.
 
Anyone who is buying that this is a good move signing Hayes, please refer to the Landry signing. Tough, scrappy, defensive fan favorite from the Rockets comes to Sac and busts. Hayes is 3 inches shorter than Landry and a worse offensive player. No thank you.

Landry was never noted as a defender. He was a "tough post scorer".
 
Landry was never noted as a defender. He was a "tough post scorer".

He was noted with a rep of being a tough guy that will stand in and take a hit. Call it scrappy, call it defensive. Call it both. Call it whatever you want it. My point being is that he was highly-touted when he came here and was gone before we knew it.
 
Over his career here, he has a record.

Drafting players. Great.
Trading players. Very good.
Paying players appropriately and managing a cap. Below average.

Petrie helped make the 2000 Kings by locking Peja and BJax to great contacts. Over the next ten years, a lot more bad contacts than good.

Great eye for talent. Soso business sense.

Agreed. Even when they were contenders, they paid significantly over market value for Webb, Bibby and even Christie. Not that I was or am complaining, but those contracts ended up being a pain in the *ss.
 
Barring a suprise signing of Dally, im 90% sure that Chuck will be starting for us alongside Cousins on opening day. His best strength is post defense, so whats the point of bringing him off the bench when the other teams play their reserves. He has to start on the best post defender and contain them from the beginning. So for those who think Hayes will be our 4th big man off the bench playing for 10 minutes, you are sorely mistaken. Chuck will be playing 25-30 mpg consistently.
 
Chuck Hayes would be a great addition to the team. He is a really really good on ball defender in the post. He regularly give elite PFs like Pau Gasol fits when he defends them. I've seen him do very well against Cousins, Blake Griffin, etc. Its not a fluke. He was one of the main reasons the Rockets took the lakers to 7 games a few years ago.

If we end up resigning Dalembert too, we would have one of the deepest frontline in the league.
 
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