[Game] Kings @ Celtics - Wednesday, Nov. 1 - 4:30 PT
- Thread starter Capt. Factorial
- Start date
D: Fox: Irving and Smart made sure he had no easy path to the basket and cut off all lanes. Became one dimensional
C: Hill: Started off with a nice 1st Qtr and Disappeared the rest of the game
C: Randolph: Helped to keep the Kings close in the 1st Qtr. Defensively a sieve.
F: WCS: 3 rebounds and 2 pts. Time is running out on this guy .
C-: Temple: Solid Defense. Does not offer anything else.
C: Jackson: Looks completely overwhelmed. Had 5 pts, but should be in the D league. Not sure if he's an NBA talent.
C: Skal: Hit a few shots in garbage time.
C-: Hield: Had 17 pts against the Celtics 7-11. Was a ghost the rest of the game.
F: Koufas: 6 pts and 3 rebounds.
F: Carter: 9 minutes is way too much
Inc: Mason: Nothing to see there
C: Malachi: Garbage time pts.
C: Hill: Started off with a nice 1st Qtr and Disappeared the rest of the game
C: Randolph: Helped to keep the Kings close in the 1st Qtr. Defensively a sieve.
F: WCS: 3 rebounds and 2 pts. Time is running out on this guy .
C-: Temple: Solid Defense. Does not offer anything else.
C: Jackson: Looks completely overwhelmed. Had 5 pts, but should be in the D league. Not sure if he's an NBA talent.
C: Skal: Hit a few shots in garbage time.
C-: Hield: Had 17 pts against the Celtics 7-11. Was a ghost the rest of the game.
F: Koufas: 6 pts and 3 rebounds.
F: Carter: 9 minutes is way too much
Inc: Mason: Nothing to see there
C: Malachi: Garbage time pts.
Pops himself couldn't get this roster to play any better at this point.
It's gonna take more time. .. Then we can decide how much we've been over rating our young core.
Other young teams aren't doing much better with superior talent.
This roster was built to lose. If we get a top 3 pick, we'll look back on these blow outs and smile.
It's gonna take more time. .. Then we can decide how much we've been over rating our young core.
Other young teams aren't doing much better with superior talent.
This roster was built to lose. If we get a top 3 pick, we'll look back on these blow outs and smile.
We changed the culture, this team will always play hard, and it will be fun to watch this new group play, those were the summer talking points. So I can’t understand that we have a lack of fight???
I kid. It’s been less than a month of games and this is the first trip east and not even that long of a trip. Yet, large chunks of the team are already out.
This is way too early, even for a team this bad, especially for a team owned by the jazz conductor
I kid. It’s been less than a month of games and this is the first trip east and not even that long of a trip. Yet, large chunks of the team are already out.
This is way too early, even for a team this bad, especially for a team owned by the jazz conductor
At least the Ron Ron team in Miami waited until the second half of the season and were mega hung over from South Beach before just walking through parts of that game.
Yes, the team is very bad.
But it’s the first week of November and they are playing like it’s April in terms of effort.
#CultureMatters
Yes, the team is very bad.
But it’s the first week of November and they are playing like it’s April in terms of effort.
#CultureMatters
While I truly understand the Joerger critics, I think we also have to talk about the effort level of the players and not only about the offensive system, but also the pace in which this system is executed.
I agree, that the high post hand offs don't seem to be the best way to use the young talent on our roster effectively. I also expressed my fear right after the Zbo signing, that Joerger would use him, to play a style, which doesn't benefit our young players and therefore doesn't benefit our future, because you simply can't mold thin, long dudes like Willie, Skal and Giles into Zach Randolph. It makes no sense at all and the things Zbo is able to teach those guys are very limited.
But wether the offense is fitting the strengths of our players or not, they simply execute it badly. During his Grizzlies days Joerger had quite a few horn and high post sets very similar to what we are seeing now. The difference was, that Conley was able to use those sets very effectively to get open and to start the offense and that both high post guys didn't play passive at all.
The Kings are running a travesty of those sets. Our guards move way too slow, at the time the handoff takes place the players are way too close together, our bigs are doing a terrible job screening the opponent during the handoff, our guards often overlook opportunities to hit the roll man, our bigs don't roll hard enough and so on.
With all due respect, I think it's not too much to ask out of an NBA player to make simple handoffs work, to set decent screens and to execute things decisively. Not all of it is on the coach.
Also I thought about this - right now Fox is a quick guard without a reliable jumpshot. To run a decent high pick&roll the guard needs to be a scoring threat from the outside. Maybe that's one of the reasons, why Joerger likes to run high post handoffs? In theory Fox would be able to start the offense at the top of the key. In theory Willie with his improved jumpshot and quick first step would also provide a solid triple threat. The problem is, that Willie isn't looking to attack his man at all, but just plays like a wet noodle. And while Fox isn't a good jumpshooter, every other guard on our roster is.
So maybe my thoughts aren't convincing at all and just a way to make myself feel a bit better.....
I agree, that the high post hand offs don't seem to be the best way to use the young talent on our roster effectively. I also expressed my fear right after the Zbo signing, that Joerger would use him, to play a style, which doesn't benefit our young players and therefore doesn't benefit our future, because you simply can't mold thin, long dudes like Willie, Skal and Giles into Zach Randolph. It makes no sense at all and the things Zbo is able to teach those guys are very limited.
But wether the offense is fitting the strengths of our players or not, they simply execute it badly. During his Grizzlies days Joerger had quite a few horn and high post sets very similar to what we are seeing now. The difference was, that Conley was able to use those sets very effectively to get open and to start the offense and that both high post guys didn't play passive at all.
The Kings are running a travesty of those sets. Our guards move way too slow, at the time the handoff takes place the players are way too close together, our bigs are doing a terrible job screening the opponent during the handoff, our guards often overlook opportunities to hit the roll man, our bigs don't roll hard enough and so on.
With all due respect, I think it's not too much to ask out of an NBA player to make simple handoffs work, to set decent screens and to execute things decisively. Not all of it is on the coach.
Also I thought about this - right now Fox is a quick guard without a reliable jumpshot. To run a decent high pick&roll the guard needs to be a scoring threat from the outside. Maybe that's one of the reasons, why Joerger likes to run high post handoffs? In theory Fox would be able to start the offense at the top of the key. In theory Willie with his improved jumpshot and quick first step would also provide a solid triple threat. The problem is, that Willie isn't looking to attack his man at all, but just plays like a wet noodle. And while Fox isn't a good jumpshooter, every other guard on our roster is.
So maybe my thoughts aren't convincing at all and just a way to make myself feel a bit better.....
Joerger certainly needs to prove now, that he isn't a onedimensional coach. We have different opinions about his Memphis tenure. The thing, that really worries me the most, is that if you have a point and Joerger was lobbying for Zbo and Carter, because he just knows one way to play, it also speaks volume about Vlade's competence as a GM.
But it's early in the season. Last season everybody was angry early in the season, that the young players didn't get enough minutes. When they finally got the opportunity, most of the fans on this board agreed, that they looked ready and that Joerger and his approach to bring them along slowly worked well enough.
Maybe the guy can suprise us all again.
I'm certainly not convinced, that I know more about basketball than an actual NBA coach.
But it's early in the season. Last season everybody was angry early in the season, that the young players didn't get enough minutes. When they finally got the opportunity, most of the fans on this board agreed, that they looked ready and that Joerger and his approach to bring them along slowly worked well enough.
Maybe the guy can suprise us all again.
I'm certainly not convinced, that I know more about basketball than an actual NBA coach.
Chicken or the egg? I do agree though, they are executing it badly. I've said it before, the offense is a tad bit beyond them at the moment. 2 weeks to install a motion, timing based system of somewhat complex off ball screening that involve multiple options is like almost every other coach recently that's attempted to put in a triangle offense in a 4 week preseason. It's doesn't seem to fly. The players will eventually slow to almost a halt offensively not because of just effort, but rather doubt. That lack of confidence systemically and individually will eventually turn into doubt in the coach and then into resentment. Kings fans of almost any fans should know what the path to that point looks like. We've seen it so many times now. I'm telling you, this is trip is taking that first turn on "I Hate My Life Blvd." coach needs to catch it before it's too late.
It takes too long to even get a shot off, the ball is in the hands of a big man who can't dribble at the top of the key near the 3 point line many times with 12 seconds on the clock, that is just too slow and predictable. Maybe he is slowing it down so our young team can get acclimated to the speed of the NBA.. I just dont know.
Alot of the players look tentative and lack aggressiveness out there, for all the talk about WCS expanding his offense game, he looks to set poor screens and cut poorly and float around waiting for a 2005 Webber jumpshot. The first quarter against the Celtics looked great, but then the offense again had trouble scoring. We're just a bottom 3 team in the NBA
It also doesn't help that we're having trouble getting to the line and lack dribble penetration or a way to get double teams or help defense from all but Fox/Bogie/Hill. Everytime Zach get's doubled I am expecting a turnover because he can't react fast enough or the rest of the team isnt in a position to help him.
Alot of the players look tentative and lack aggressiveness out there, for all the talk about WCS expanding his offense game, he looks to set poor screens and cut poorly and float around waiting for a 2005 Webber jumpshot. The first quarter against the Celtics looked great, but then the offense again had trouble scoring. We're just a bottom 3 team in the NBA
It also doesn't help that we're having trouble getting to the line and lack dribble penetration or a way to get double teams or help defense from all but Fox/Bogie/Hill. Everytime Zach get's doubled I am expecting a turnover because he can't react fast enough or the rest of the team isnt in a position to help him.
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Joerger certainly needs to prove now, that he isn't a onedimensional coach. We have different opinions about his Memphis tenure. The thing, that really worries me the most, is that if you have a point and Joerger was lobbying for Zbo and Carter, because he just knows one way to play, it also speaks volume about Vlade's competence as a GM.
But it's early in the season. Last season everybody was angry early in the season, that the young players didn't get enough minutes. When they finally got the opportunity, most of the fans on this board agreed, that they looked ready and that Joerger and his approach to bring them along slowly worked well enough.
Maybe the guy can suprise us all again.
I'm certainly not convinced, that I know more about basketball than an actual NBA coach.
But it's early in the season. Last season everybody was angry early in the season, that the young players didn't get enough minutes. When they finally got the opportunity, most of the fans on this board agreed, that they looked ready and that Joerger and his approach to bring them along slowly worked well enough.
Maybe the guy can suprise us all again.
I'm certainly not convinced, that I know more about basketball than an actual NBA coach.
Thanks, Capt. I went up to the local cafe and watched the Astros beat the Dodgers. I discovered that I can derive great joy by watching a team from Los Angeles lose no matter what the sport.
As far as the Kings game goes, some of you need to pace yourselves. EVERY SINGLE ONE of us who accepted that this is a rebuild knew there would be games like this - a lot of them, in fact. The Kings are young, inexperienced in the ways of the NBA and they're not gonna change over night. There are gonna be times when it is fun to watch (and I still plan on attending at least one more game in G1C this season) but there are gonna be lots of games that make your eyes hurt.
IMHO blaming Dave Joerger and calling for his head isn't even worthy of additional comment. It's gonna be a long season and there's gonna be a lot of frustration. Accept that and you may survive.
As far as the Kings game goes, some of you need to pace yourselves. EVERY SINGLE ONE of us who accepted that this is a rebuild knew there would be games like this - a lot of them, in fact. The Kings are young, inexperienced in the ways of the NBA and they're not gonna change over night. There are gonna be times when it is fun to watch (and I still plan on attending at least one more game in G1C this season) but there are gonna be lots of games that make your eyes hurt.
IMHO blaming Dave Joerger and calling for his head isn't even worthy of additional comment. It's gonna be a long season and there's gonna be a lot of frustration. Accept that and you may survive.
I don't have a problem with watching a young team lose games. But I do have a problem watching a young team, that looks like it lacks intensity and fight.
In the offseason we talked a lot about culture. A lot of Fans were frustrated with DMC, because he took plays off and favored a rebuild, hoping we would get a team, that would always go down scrapping, clawing and fighting.
From my point of view the intensity looks worse than last year. Outside of Garret Temple and to a lesser extent Fox, there is noone, who really plays all out, who is willing to give up his body, who is willing to get physical and do the dirty work and who is eager to impose his will on the opposing team.
Right now I would say that the guy we canned for lacking character and culture had more intensity, will and spirit in him, than half of our current team grouped together and thats with him taking plays off.
You can blame me for still being sour over the way things were handled, but ultimately I am a Kings Fan and want to root for the Kings.
And I dont think it's too much to ask, wanting to watch young legs giving their all and everything when going through a rebuild. Right now our guys aint doing that and I personally think it starts with the FO and with the vets we signed.
Like I said earlier - its easier talking about character and culture than actually living it.
In the offseason we talked a lot about culture. A lot of Fans were frustrated with DMC, because he took plays off and favored a rebuild, hoping we would get a team, that would always go down scrapping, clawing and fighting.
From my point of view the intensity looks worse than last year. Outside of Garret Temple and to a lesser extent Fox, there is noone, who really plays all out, who is willing to give up his body, who is willing to get physical and do the dirty work and who is eager to impose his will on the opposing team.
Right now I would say that the guy we canned for lacking character and culture had more intensity, will and spirit in him, than half of our current team grouped together and thats with him taking plays off.
You can blame me for still being sour over the way things were handled, but ultimately I am a Kings Fan and want to root for the Kings.
And I dont think it's too much to ask, wanting to watch young legs giving their all and everything when going through a rebuild. Right now our guys aint doing that and I personally think it starts with the FO and with the vets we signed.
Like I said earlier - its easier talking about character and culture than actually living it.
Theis went undrafted in 2013. I love him, because he is one of those swiss army knife type of players and has a great motor. A bit undersized to play the 5 in the NBA, but Stevens values floor spacing and effort more than sheer size and power and for the big dudes the Celtics just go to Baynes. Won defensive player of the year in Germany last season and was part of the three-peat by Bamberg over the last 3 years.
Maybe not a transcendental basketball talent by NBA standards, but Theis makes up for that with effort and tenacity. I think he can be a very valuable role player in todays NBA. Kinda like a poor mans Draymond Green with less playmaking potential.
Great find by the Celtics. In combination with Baynes certainly an upgrade over Olynyk.
Btw. he was a teammate of Dennis Schröder back in 2012, playing for Braunschweig and as far as I recall they still are close friends. Schröder lobbied for Theis on the Hawks just before the Eurobasket this offseason, but Theis chose the Celtics instead.
Maybe not a transcendental basketball talent by NBA standards, but Theis makes up for that with effort and tenacity. I think he can be a very valuable role player in todays NBA. Kinda like a poor mans Draymond Green with less playmaking potential.
Great find by the Celtics. In combination with Baynes certainly an upgrade over Olynyk.
Btw. he was a teammate of Dennis Schröder back in 2012, playing for Braunschweig and as far as I recall they still are close friends. Schröder lobbied for Theis on the Hawks just before the Eurobasket this offseason, but Theis chose the Celtics instead.