Kings @ Bulls Game Thread

[Sac.Kings]

imagine how good we could be when our offense gets in synch. Our defense right now is great, but combine that with offense we could be very scary. We just stole a game from a very good team on the road on their home opener. It was an ugly game, but i will take a win over a loss any day.

 

[DETON8ER]

Lol kenny "whiner" Thomas SUCKED REAL BAD!!!
Like sum1 else sed REEF SHOULD BE A CANDIDATE ON FEAR FACTOR

 

[Burrito06]

Ron Artest is not a 25 PPG guy. He's just not good enough. Not even close.

Bibby sucked. I don't know how you can give him any kudos. He had some 11TOs while shooting 30%. He hit a clutch shot, but hogging the ball doesn't mean you did anything worthwhile.

Artest sucked. 7-20. He got lucky at the end with some calls that were borderline suspect fouls. He also had 4 TOs. He let his man torch us for 30 or something too.

Martin was spectacular. He had some clutch steals ... clutch shots ... the kid did it all. Really impressed.

SAR wasn't terrible. He had 6 boards and looked more comfortable on the glass late in the game. He seemed to overthink his shots ... but 7 shots is not enough shots to get any rythm. He's still too damn passive and the sitting at the 3-point arc is just silly.

KT and Miller combined for a jelly donut. Combined: 3-13, 11reb, 6TOs.

Ron Ron can easily score 20 a game if he was just smarter with his shot selection. I also will not critcize Ron so much because he did pull down 13 boards.

 

[chelle]

How you can say Bibby sucked and defend SAR as not playing terrible in the same breathe just amazes me.

Bibby is out there playing with one freakin' hand. He had 9 assists despite all the blown baskets by some teammates. And he was our second leading scorer after Martin.

On the post game show when asked about Bibby's TO's, Musselman said to lay some of the blame on the coaches. They decided they had to ride Bibby to the end even tho he was dead tired. He also said they are concerned about the wrist. In practice, Bibby has trouble just catching the ball.

What you saw out there was a gutsy Bibby doing everything he could to get his team a win.

EXACTLY

 

[Roman]

Bibby - Playing hurt because there is nobody to play in his place, 9 assists, 23 points, 3 steals, 4 rebs .... yeah, he sucks.

Ron - 22 points, 13 rebs, 4 assists, 2 steals . . . guess he sucks, too.

I know that Bibby had too many to's and Ron took too many ill advised shots, but I do believe they had a BIG part in us winning this game.

Bibby doesn't suck. I never said he sucks. I said his game tonight sucked. If he goes and averaged 11TOs, 5-15 shooting and 9 assists for the rest of the season, would you take it? No. It's terrible. They are not Bibby-like numbers. If we lost this game, you don't have anything good to say about those numbers.

The same with Artest. So what that he had 22 points. He took 20 shots. That's a terrible conversion rate. Yes, he got rebounds, and that's huge. But, he damn near cost us the game with his play. In fact, if the Bulls (and the refs) didn't hand us this win ... we'd be 0-2. His decision making is terrible.

 

[Roman]

Ron Ron can easily score 20 a game if he was just smarter with his shot selection.

Easily? No. Could he? Yes.

 

[kennadog]

I didn't "defend" SAR. I don't think he played a bad game considering what we asked him to do. He didn't get touches. He rebounded at a good clip. He defended well. What more do you want? He can't score 12-15 on 7 shots every night.

I don't care about Bibby playing with a hurt hand. If it's hurt and it's detrimental to his game - he should sit. For all those 9 assists, he had 11 TOs. Last I checked a 1:1 ratio is bad ... Bibby doesn't even have that.

Also, you can say players missed their shots, but you can say that about everyone. I'm sure SAR would have had more assists if people hit the shots he passed to them. I'm sure Miller would have. etc. etc. etc.

Bibby didn't make any spectacular passes or set ups to his teammates that earned a lot of those assists. A lot of them were just simple long jumpers after he passed them the ball. Nothing special. Nothing he created.

Well we will have to disagree. But to me that is just ridculous. Not only did we need Bibby out there, but that's why Muss said they decided they just flat had to ride Bibby to exhaustion out there. They wanted to win and the coaches knew it wasn't going to happen without Bibby on the floor.

 

[chelle]

Actually, you did say that "Bibby sucked." Those were your words not mine. But even if you meant that his game sucked tonight, I would disagree.

As for him sitting because his playing hurt is a detriment to the team, just whom would you play in his place that could perform even a fraction as well as he did tonight. I am NOT saying he had a great game. Clearly, he had too may to's. However, his impact tonight was much more good than bad.

 

[LMM]

How you can say Bibby sucked and defend SAR as not playing terrible in the same breathe just amazes me.

Bibby is out there playing with one freakin' hand. He had 9 assists despite all the blown baskets by some teammates. And he was our second leading scorer after Martin.

On the post game show when asked about Bibby's TO's, Musselman said to lay some of the blame on the coaches. They decided they had to ride Bibby to the end even tho he was dead tired. He also said they are concerned about the wrist. In practice, Bibby has trouble just catching the ball.

What you saw out there was a gutsy Bibby doing everything he could to get his team a win.

I agree. Bibby definitely did not look good dribbling out there. kept on fixing the tape on his wrist and stuff. you could just tell bibby was toiling out there and just playing as hard as he could.

he logged 45 minutes on the 1st night of a back-to-back and only the 2nd game of the season. He was tired for sure. I don't know how he hit that 3 in the end, but that was pure heart from mike.

i guess a C game from mike is better than the alternative. and he was a BIG part in the win tonight. kudos.

 

[Roman]

Well we will have to disagree. But to me that is just ridculous. Not only did we need Bibby out there, but that's why Muss said they decided they just flat had to ride Bibby to exhaustion out there. They wanted to win and the coaches knew it wasn't going to happen without Bibby on the floor.

Bibby is an amazing player. I agree that they should have rode him. But to say his game was good despite 11TOs is awful. 11TOs is just hard to do. Winning doesn't turn a poor game into a good one.

As for SAR, like I said, it wasn't a good game. It just wasn't bad. He was there. He rebounded. That's what we needed. Doesn't make it a good game, but he was far from bad. He was there. That's a C.

 

[kennadog]

Bibby doesn't suck. I never said he sucks. I said his game tonight sucked. If he goes and averaged 11TOs, 5-15 shooting and 9 assists for the rest of the season, would you take it? No. It's terrible. They are not Bibby-like numbers. If we lost this game, you don't have anything good to say about those numbers.

The same with Artest. So what that he had 22 points. He took 20 shots. That's a terrible conversion rate. Yes, he got rebounds, and that's huge. But, he damn near cost us the game with his play. In fact, if the Bulls (and the refs) didn't hand us this win ... we'd be 0-2. His decision making is terrible.

And if the numbers looked pretty, but we lost, I wouldn't care much how nice the stats looked on paper for any player. On any given night the whole point is to win the game, no matter how ugly. This team fought for this win, despite playing poorly. I'll take that any day.

EDIT: And by the way, no where did I say 11 TO's was good. But I still take Bibby out there tonight.

 

[DaMan]

Actually, you did say that "Bibby sucked." Those were your words not mine. But even if you meant that his game sucked tonight, I would disagree.

As for him sitting because his playing hurt is a detriment to the team, just whom would you play in his place that could perform even a fraction as well as he did tonight. I am NOT saying he had a great game. Clearly, he had too may to's. However, his impact tonight was much more good than bad.

He did say bibby sucked tonight, but like i said he didn't really play well or great it was a C game for bibby tonight.

 

[Roman]

Actually, you did say that "Bibby sucked." Those were your words not mine.

Not trying to get into a grammatical debate here, but "Bibby sucked" implies past-tense ... hence the "ed" ending at the end of "suck" rather than an "s" which would indicate that I think he currently is in the midst of "sucking".

So, basically, if you interpret what I said to mean that I think Bibby is a bad player ... then you just don't understand the english language my friend.

 

[Roman]

And if the numbers looked pretty, but we lost, I wouldn't care much how nice the stats looked on paper for any player. On any given night the whole point is to win the game, no matter how ugly. This team fought for this win, despite playing poorly. I'll take that any day.

CORRECT! Now you get it!

It's a team game, the TEAM won. Despite the fact that Bibby had a poor Bibby-type performance.

Bibby doesn't need to be patted on the back for a good TEAM win. He still played poor, but the team played for the win despite his poor game. He showed up for a clutch shot and that's awesome!

If he had spectacular numbers and played his A game and we lost ... then you could say BIbby had a great game but the team lost it.

Just because we won doesn't make his statline better. It doesn't make those 11TOs and 30% shooting go away. Is it better than his backup? I'm not sure. Would we have won with his backup? I'm not sure. Am I glad we won? Yes and no. I think us winning is a great thing as a fan, but it doesn't inspire me. We won ugly. We didn't deserve to win and we didn't look like a team that can/should win.

I'm just stating my opinion, it doesn't make it right.

 

[kennadog]

Not trying to get into a grammatical debate here, but "Bibby sucked" implies past-tense ... hence the "ed" ending at the end of "suck" rather than an "s" which would indicate that I think he currently is in the midst of "sucking".

So, basically, if you interpret what I said to mean that I think Bibby is a bad player ... then you just don't understand the english language my friend.

That is not how I took it. And I still disagree with the over all assessment. Without Bibby, Martin and Artest, we lose this one. Period. Just who do you think "made up" for Bibby's sucky performance? You could say Kevin, who was wonderful, but he had zero assists.

 

[chelle]

Not trying to get into a grammatical debate here, but "Bibby sucked" implies past-tense ... hence the "ed" ending at the end of "suck" rather than an "s" which would indicate that I think he currently is in the midst of "sucking".

So, basically, if you interpret what I said to mean that I think Bibby is a bad player ... then you just don't understand the english language my friend.

Actually, I teach grammar. I do believe that I have somewhat of an understanding of the subject.

Let's just accept that we disagree and end this exchange now.

 

[HighFlyingMonkey]

Amazing...

God acknowledges that the Kings exist.

 

[Viking]

imagine how good we could be when our offense gets n sync.

ok

 

[Roman]

That is not how I took it. And I still disagree with the over all assessment. Without Bibby, Martin and Artest, we lose this one. Period.

With our roster, that's a given.

That's like saying: Without Jordan, Pippen and Rodman, the Bulls wouldn't have won a championship.

Well, duh!

But, the caveat to what you said is that without Bibby/Artest playing poorly and hogging more shots than they should (15 is good for healthy Bibby) ... we might actually have closed this game out earlier. That you can never know.

As far as not taking "Bibby sucked" to mean past tense, then I'm sorry you're just reaching. I was discussing the current game and the 'ed' ending simply clarifies it. Don't reach so hard to make my argument not hold water. I don't like the way Bibby plays a lot of the time, but he's an amazing player.

 

[LMM]

Amazing...

God acknowledges that the Kings exist.

during the final seconds of the game, i kept on saying:

"god please please please.. kings fans deserve a little bit of happiness too."

lol. istead of wishing for a player to hit a shot or something, i was pleading with god to give us a break.

Thank you, God, btw.

 

[Roman]

Actually, I teach grammar. I do believe that I have somewhat of an understanding of the subject.

Let's just accept that we disagree and end this exchange now.

Fair enough.

 

[kennadog]

But, the caveat to what you said is that without Bibby/Artest playing poorly and hogging more shots than they should (15 is good for healthy Bibby) ... we might actually have closed this game out earlier. That you can never know.

Well apparently the Kings coaches weren't willing to take that chance. And I wasn't "reaching," to make you wrong. I was stating an opposing opinion to the Bibby "sucked." statement. We just disagree.

 

[Roman]

Well apparently the Kings coaches weren't willing to take that chance. And I wasn't "reaching," to make you wrong. I was stating an opposing opinion to the Bibby "sucked." statement. We just disagree.

You were reaching in that there was no indication that I said Bibby SUCKS as in currently and always. That I never indicated, pointed towards or even hinted at.

As for the coaches ... these coaches aren't doing much of anything so far. Might as well let your ego-superstar-primo-players take the shots, no?

I've seen nothing to indicate that these coaches have installed an offense. So, why not let Bibby/Artest jack up shots and ride them. I mean, it's not like we could get Artest/SAR the ball in the post using a simple backpick to set them up against a SF/SG. It's not like we could have utilized KMoney more when he was on fire.

Riding "premier" players and letting them just go buck wild trying to create for themselves is what coaches that don't know what else to do rely on. It's what I was afraid of. It's not a sign of good coaching, but quite the opposite. Not saying that there isn't an offense or that Muss is a bad coach, but the signs (at this point) point to this. To put it lightly, I wouldn't put my savings account in on the Kings making the playoffs.

At this point, I'm not going to take anything the coaching staff has to say as anything I should bank my own opinion on. They haven't earned that at this point.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

I love this game but this team is still a bad team the bulls baciscally gave us the game. Play another team and this could have been a blow out.

The Kings put themselves in the position to be able to capitalize at the end by playing solid defense all game. Even when they weren't hitting shots they made sure Chicago didn't. Chicago isn't a bad team as evidenced by what they did to Miami the other night. Its not like they just decided at the end to lose the game - the Kings pressured them into making the mistakes that cost them.

 

[kennadog]

You were reaching in that there was no indication that I said Bibby SUCKS as in currently and always. That I never indicated, pointed towards or even hinted at.

Error here. As I pointed out above, I never assumed that.

 

[Roman]

The Kings put themselves in the position to be able to capitalize at the end by playing solid defense all game. Even when they weren't hitting shots they made sure Chicago didn't. Chicago isn't a bad team as evidenced by what they did to Miami the other night. Its not like they just decided at the end to lose the game - the Kings pressured them into making the mistakes that cost them.

The Bulls are a good team, but I doubt they do this even 1 time out of 100 against the Heat again.

I wouldn't use the Heat game as a barometer of how good the Bulls are.

We played solid defense. The Bulls also didn't look good and missed a lot of uncontested shots.

We lucked into this game, but I wouldn't take too much from it other than the W. It's not like we showed anything worth taking home out there. No one other than Martin really did more than show up.

 

[Roman]

Error here. As I pointed out above, I never assumed that.

Oh, I misunderstood another post earlier from you. My bad.

Sorry.

 

[Gtronic]

JUST WATCHED IT!!! had it recorded!! I counted that as a lose a few times during the game. 1-1 baby!!!!

 

[kennadog]

Oh, I misunderstood another post earlier from you. My bad.

Sorry.

No problem. I may be wrong, but don't want to be misquoted.

 

[Roman]

No problem. I may be wrong, but don't want to be misquoted.

Heh.

Either way ... we freaking won!

I don't care if Ronnie Price went off for 120 to net us the victory ... we won. That's what matters.

I still don't feel confident, as I've said only 128 times, but perhaps the team does ... and that's what matters.