Kings Bench Needs Major, Major Help!!!

[Purple Reign]

Great game tonight, even though there is still one quarter left. But this bench is going to be this team's undoing unless Petrie does something. Three moves in my opinion.

1. Trade Thomas. Not because he is bad, but because there is a logjam at his position and the team needs a veteran desperately to backup Peja and Bonzi.

2. Insert Corliss Williamson into Thomas' role. I think we all can 100 percent agree that Corliss needs to play far more than he is.

3. Sign Latrell Sprewell. I know that is not the most popular sentement on this board, but this team needs energy, scoring and a veteran presence in the peremeter off the bench. I don't think Adelman can wait on Garcia and Martin to grow up. Adelman has dealt with Spree before so I don't think his poison will be an issue. PLUS HE IS AVAILABLE!!!

 

[piksi]

when Kings fans are asking for Spree - things are really going bad

 

[ImaKingsFan]

when Kings fans are asking for Spree - things are really going bad

Or maybe these fans feel bad for him and want him to be able to "feed his family"

 

[Big Cuz 15]

when Kings fans are asking for Spree - things are really going bad

AGREED

we really don't need that fool in sac. i'd rather get into the lottery than have him help us win a few extra games and get trounced in the 1st round of the playoffs

 

[SkinnerBox]

Bench looked better in the 4th. The starters pulled it together so now we want to pull the plug on the bench? Can't we enjoy a win 5 min after it has happened?

 

[chelle]

Bench looked better in the 4th. The starters pulled it together so now we want to pull the plug on the bench? Can't we enjoy a win 5 min after it has happened?

MY THOUGHTS EXACTLY!!

 

[HndsmCelt]

Bench looked better in the 4th. The starters pulled it together so now we want to pull the plug on the bench? Can't we enjoy a win 5 min after it has happened?

I think this thread was started BEFORE the 4th quarter.

 

[chelle]

OUR BENCH HAD
34 PTS
17 REBS
7 TO'S
7 BLOCKS
3 STLS
4 ASSISTS

WE WERE AHEAD BY 28 WHEN THEY CAME IN IN THE FOURTH. WE WON BY 36.

I know that we were playing the Jazz - and not even their best. Our bench is a BIG weakness, but they did not hurt us. There is need for improvement, but, tonight, they did their job.

 

[pejafans]

Great game tonight, even though there is still one quarter left. But this bench is going to be this team's undoing unless Petrie does something. Three moves in my opinion.

1. Trade Thomas. Not because he is bad, but because there is a logjam at his position and the team needs a veteran desperately to backup Peja and Bonzi.

2. Insert Corliss Williamson into Thomas' role. I think we all can 100 percent agree that Corliss needs to play far more than he is.

3. Sign Latrell Sprewell. I know that is not the most popular sentement on this board, but this team needs energy, scoring and a veteran presence in the peremeter off the bench. I don't think Adelman can wait on Garcia and Martin to grow up. Adelman has dealt with Spree before so I don't think his poison will be an issue. PLUS HE IS AVAILABLE!!!

1.agreed
thomas is a starter and he always play bad when coming off the bench
but which team would want a undersized and overpaid PF?

2.agreed
but colis is two undersized to play at 4

3.Good idea
but petrie would do it i believe

 

[Diabeticwonder]

3. Sign Latrell Sprewell. I know that is not the most popular sentement on this board, but this team needs energy, scoring and a veteran presence in the peremeter off the bench. I don't think Adelman can wait on Garcia and Martin to grow up. Adelman has dealt with Spree before so I don't think his poison will be an issue. PLUS HE IS AVAILABLE!!!

Obviously, this is not a very popular belief, but I'm of the same opinion with respect to Martin and Garcia. If Spree is that guy then so be it, but it's apparent that neither or them is ready to play big time roles coming off the bench. It would have been great to get Desmond Mason and the fact that Petrie tried to do so is indicative of his uncertainty as to Martin and/or Garcia and I'm sure he's looking at all options. However, while Martin shows flashes of vast improvement, he is still not ready and the team is not in a position to baptize him by fire.

 

[Variant]

Please no Spree!

The bench is still a concern though. They're talanted, but haven't figured out how to play as a group or how to consistently score.

I'm glad Garcia's back though. I'll take him in the rotation over K-Mart.. that guy makes way too many mistakes and never seems to learn from them either.

 

[SacTownKid]

The bench really has played like crap, no if's, and's, or but's about it. !But! I think we have to give them some credit, they came back and really asserted themselves in the 4th.

Just like the starters in the last few games, the bench is capable of much, much more. It just takes time.

Plus Adelman is playing them like he has NEVER played his bench. He's putting them all in at the same time! Thats puts a lot of pressure on these guys to run an offense in 6-7 minutes of play. Still that is no excuse. I think he is just seeing what he has/doesn't have on the bench. Unless he plans on using an 10 man rotation on most nights. Which, won't happen. I think he'll gradually put the bench in with the starters and have more of a rotation like he used to before this season.

 

[Bricklayer]

OUR BENCH HAD
34 PTS
17 REBS
7 TO'S
7 BLOCKS
3 STLS
4 ASSISTS

WE WERE AHEAD BY 28 WHEN THEY CAME IN IN THE FOURTH. WE WON BY 36.

I know that we were playing the Jazz - and not even their best. Our bench is a BIG weakness, but they did not hurt us. There is need for improvement, but, tonight, they did their job.

Considerably deceptive numbers -- while the game was still in question the bench...well, they were pretty much the only reason it WAS still in question. What we got in the 4th quarter was proof that our bench could win garbage time over an exhausted group of undrafted FAs and superscrubs. At least they "won" those minutes, but this certainly wasn't a confidence builder once again.

If you transported us forward to Game 7 of a playoff series, would I even want to see the bench play ANY minutes right now? Not sure. Might think playing the 5 starters 48 apiece would be the lesser risk.

Ironically think what is bothering the bench is the same thing that is bothering the starters -- lack of roles, and lack of leadership. Who is going to become the gutsy leader of the bench group this time? Somebody out there has to bring both enthusiasm, and the personality to talk to his teammates, get them fired up too. Its tough though when you have so many differnet agendas -- guys unhappy with their minutes, kids trying to prove themselves. Its tough to get everyone focused on the same goal and pulling topgether for the team, rather than personal stuff. Everytime the bench comes in everybody wants to immediately start jacking up forced shots to prove they deserve more minutes.

 

[SacTownKid]

Considerably deceptive numbers -- while the game was still in question the bench...well, they were pretty much the only reason it WAS still in question. What we got in the 4th quarter was proof that our bench could win garbage time over an exhausted group of undrafted FAs and superscrubs. At least they "won" those minutes, but this certainly wasn't a confidence builder once again.

If you transported us forward to Game 7 of a playoff series, would I even want to see the bench play ANY minutes right now? Not sure. Might think playing the 5 starters 48 apiece would be the lesser risk.

Ironically think what is bothering the bench is the same thing that is bothering the starters -- lack of roles, and lack of leadership. Who is going to become the gutsy leader of the bench group this time? Somebody out there has to bring both enthusiasm, and the personality to talk to his teammates, get them fired up too. Its tough though when you have so many differnet agendas -- guys unhappy with their minutes, kids trying to prove themselves. Its tough to get everyone focused on the same goal and pulling topgether for the team, rather than personal stuff. Everytime the bench comes in everybody wants to immediately start jacking up forced shots to prove they deserve more minutes.

Well, I think more than guy's trying to prove they deserve minutes, I think it has to do with lack of roles and leadership. I think you hit the nail right on the head in that regard. The bench has no identity. I really didn't expect for Adelman to use his bench in the manner he is either. I think there is a "way" to use his bench and I believe he will find it.

 

[GoGoGadget]

If you transported us forward to Game 7 of a playoff series, would I even want to see the bench play ANY minutes right now? Not sure. Might think playing the 5 starters 48 apiece would be the lesser risk.

Depends on the rotation. Hart, Thomas and Martin have all shown on a couple of occasions that they can play well when on the court with four of the starters. Its when you start grouping the benchers together that it turns into one, big, gelatinous puddle of suck.

Don't know if that should be looked at as a positive that they can play well with starters, or as a negative that they so easily succumb to the disjointed play of the rest of the bench.

 

[Insomniacal Fan]

It was nice to see that Adelman didn't shove the bench back in the doghouse permanently, and let them out to play again after the starters opened a more commanding lead. You have some level of talent on the bench, I think that we've done more with less in our time.

Maybe the 12 minutes of garbage time at the end will really make a difference in their cohesion.

 

[Kingsgurl]

Depends on the rotation. Hart, Thomas and Martin have all shown on a couple of occasions that they can play well when on the court with four of the starters. Its when you start grouping the benchers together that it turns into one, big, gelatinous puddle of suck.

Don't know if that should be looked at as a positive that they can play well with starters, or as a negative that they so easily succumb to the disjointed play of the rest of the bench.

Well, it's not like the starters have established a consistent mode of operation above the puddle of suck. They are YOUNG. They are going to make mistakes. They are going to learn (Kenny Thomas is excused from this observation, I don't know what the hell HIS problem is)
This TEAM is going to have struggles, the bench included. Some nights they will look good. Others they won't. I'd start getting pretty used to it, or it's going to be a really long season for you.

 

[PixelPusher]

In terms of offense, I think it boils down to Kenny Thomas and the 2 rookies (Martin & Garcia). I wasn't really expecting great offensive production from Skinner, Hart or even Corliss; before the season started, the word on our bench was that it added depth in terms of defense and rebounding (the things we've always lacked), so that leaves KT as our legit scorer off the bench and the rooks, who are going to be up and down all season.

 

[GoGoGadget]

Well, it's not like the starters have established a consistent mode of operation above the puddle of suck. They are YOUNG. They are going to make mistakes. They are going to learn (Kenny Thomas is excused from this observation, I don't know what the hell HIS problem is)
This TEAM is going to have struggles, the bench included. Some nights they will look good. Others they won't. I'd start getting pretty used to it, or it's going to be a really long season for you.

Agreed.

 

[VF21]

Okay, when the entire bench was on the court at the same time in the second quarter, it was HORRIBLE. I think that is the problem.

It's clear they just aren't equipped to be a complete second unit. As long as Adelman staggers them into the lineup, I think they'll do fine ... and eventually perhaps be the complete group substitute and perhaps not.

I have never really bought into the need to replace all five starters at once anyway, so if we have to stagger them for effectiveness, so be it.

 

[mbkings10]

Considerably deceptive numbers -- while the game was still in question the bench...well, they were pretty much the only reason it WAS still in question. What we got in the 4th quarter was proof that our bench could win garbage time over an exhausted group of undrafted FAs and superscrubs. At least they "won" those minutes, but this certainly wasn't a confidence builder once again.

If you transported us forward to Game 7 of a playoff series, would I even want to see the bench play ANY minutes right now? Not sure. Might think playing the 5 starters 48 apiece would be the lesser risk.

Ironically think what is bothering the bench is the same thing that is bothering the starters -- lack of roles, and lack of leadership. Who is going to become the gutsy leader of the bench group this time? Somebody out there has to bring both enthusiasm, and the personality to talk to his teammates, get them fired up too. Its tough though when you have so many differnet agendas -- guys unhappy with their minutes, kids trying to prove themselves. Its tough to get everyone focused on the same goal and pulling topgether for the team, rather than personal stuff. Everytime the bench comes in everybody wants to immediately start jacking up forced shots to prove they deserve more minutes.

Agreed, we need someone like JB or Bobby. Our 2nd unit was very good for many years, because we had guys like that who weren't afraid to be that gutsy leader. I think Corliss is the closest thing we got to that on our bench, maybe even on our whole team, but Rick has chosen not to play him very much.

 

[SacTownKid]

Well, it's not like the starters have established a consistent mode of operation above the puddle of suck. They are YOUNG. They are going to make mistakes. They are going to learn (Kenny Thomas is excused from this observation, I don't know what the hell HIS problem is)
This TEAM is going to have struggles, the bench included. Some nights they will look good. Others they won't. I'd start getting pretty used to it, or it's going to be a really long season for you.

I'll tell you what Kenny Thomas' problem is. Its the same with everybody else on the bench. They are all role players. When they are in with some of the starters, good. But they have been on the court all at the same time. The offensive identity of that team is non-existent, so each is reduced to having to create for themselves, which none of them are accustomed to. The only player I see off that bench as being able to even remotely create his own offense is Kevin, but he hasn't fully developed that part of his game.

 

[SacTownKid]

Agreed, we need someone like JB or Bobby. Our 2nd unit was very good for many years, because we had guys like that who weren't afraid to be that gutsy leader. I think Corliss is the closest thing we got to that on our bench, maybe even on our whole team, but Rick has chosen not to play him very much.

With Bobby you had a guy that was going to go out and shoot the ball. That was his role. Everybody knew it. The bench now is stuck between, "do we set up an offensive scheme" or "do I shoot the ball when I get it".

Roles.

 

[Bricklayer]

I'll tell you what Kenny Thomas' problem is. Its the same with everybody else on the bench. They are all role players. When they are in with some of the starters, good. But they have been on the court all at the same time. The offensive identity of that team is non-existent, so each is reduced to having to create for themselves, which none of them are accustomed to. The only player I see off that bench as being able to even remotely create his own offense is Kevin, but he hasn't fully developed that part of his game.

I think that is very true with Kenny -- ironically we were/are counting on him to be a 6th man type, but he's not very well suited to do that. To be the best offensive player on the floor for a group and carry them anywhere. He's does best when he's playing off of others or popping open jumpers in the flow of the offense, not when he's playing one on one or becoming the focus of the defense.

Kevin of course has some of those skills, but he still looks a long way off and is just curiously ineffective for long stretches. Hard to figure him out. Cisco is a guy who might have the all around skills to become a real bench leader, but he too looks a long way off from assuming that type of role. That kind of leaves Corliss, who might still be able to be an effective 6th man, but really doesn't fit so long as KT is there ahead of him, and even at his peak as a 6th man was more scorer than all around spark plug.

Its kind of like the starters -- we have a whole bunch of #2s and #3s, but no #1. And off the bench we have a bunch of #7 and #8s with no #6. depth is nice, but not when its another way of saying that you just don't have anybody who stands out and can take over.

 

[chelle]

I'll tell you what Kenny Thomas' problem is. Its the same with everybody else on the bench. They are all role players. When they are in with some of the starters, good. But they have been on the court all at the same time. The offensive identity of that team is non-existent, so each is reduced to having to create for themselves, which none of them are accustomed to. The only player I see off that bench as being able to even remotely create his own offense is Kevin, but he hasn't fully developed that part of his game.

That is my point. THEY are bench players, not starters. Everyone agrees that we do not have a strong bench. I just think that we expect too much of them when they are all in together. They are NOT starters. I do not understand why they are ever in at the same time unless it is a blow out like last night.

They have a LOT of work to do. Nobody could say otherwise. I just think that when they have any positives at all in a game like last night, I would rather focus on them instead of the negaives. We have had 5 other game to look at the bad.

 

[tyrant]

the kings have the worst scoring bench in the league. we're ranked right at the bottom. we need help and we need it now; some of the games that we lost we could've won, but adelman had to play the bench to give our starters rest. when someone from the bench comes in it's a stinkbomb after that. we need a reliable source comming off our bench.

i thought kenny thomas would be 6th man of the year. there's still time, but he's not playing like a 6th man.

 

[Yoda]

Thank you Petrie, you traded a 20-10-5 guy with heart for half of the worst bench in the NBA. In nearly every other city in America his job would be in question.

 

[LPKingsFan]

Thank you Petrie, you traded a 20-10-5 guy with heart for half of the worst bench in the NBA. In nearly every other city in America his job would be in question.

Unless he did so at the Maloofs' behest.

 

[SLAB]

Last night my theory of taking SAR off the bench seems like it would be a good move.

Look, the bench, as is, has no "Number 1." Take SAR off the bench, and you automatically have that go-to guy. He would be able to provide a very steady hand, and a leadership type role to these guys. He would be the face of our bench.

Also, moving Kenny to the starters would make him, happy, and...

Happy Kenny Thomas = Rebounding/Scoring.

I like it...As long as SAR is in during crunch time, I say at least give it try...

What do you guys think?

 

[Purple Reign]

Can this bench the way that it is constructed, contribute to this team winning 45-50 games and making it into the playoffs. IMHO the answer is no. Bench players are supposed to provide a spark. There is not one consistant spark in the bunch. Thomas was supposed to be it, but he has failed. If Petrie can pull the trigger on him, please do so and rebuild this bench on the fly.