Kings after Ingram

[pdxKingsFan]

If we can just sign a defensive stopper let's just do that.

 

[SacTownKid]

I think Keegan lacks the personality and aggressiveness to become another Tyrese if we’re stupid enough to trade him.

It's a guard league so it depends on if he can develop those skills to a star level. If not, no he's a 3rd/4th piece but a 3rd/4th piece can be extremely important like Prince was for Detroit back in the day. Markkanen isn't a guard either though. He scores and at really good level and that's pretty much it. Solid everywhere else but nothing spectacular. If you can add him to the Kings without dipping into your need or talent core fine, even if you want to blow those picks away with him... eh. If Grant took 1 and Lauri took 3-4? No, he's not that much better than Grant IMO.

 

[Elektrik]

Waiting on some news…any news.

 

[SacTownKid]

Even if Keegan stalls out as a 16-18 point a game guy with plus shooting and defense that’s a hell of a player and super valuable in the league.

And again, if we were talking Tatum level guys in trade? Sure, whatever it took outside of Fox/Domas, but these aren't the guys here, lol.

 

[SacTownKid]

Another thing Markkanen solves for this team is being able to get to the line and convert at an incredible rate. Kings have no one like that and he plays with a fire that Murray hasn't shown (yet). He's someone that would match Sabonis intensity on each play, probably making his life alot easier in the paint with his length and rebounding.

The problem is we would lose our best defender in Murray and who would replace him? Could Monte sign someone to fill that defensive void? Okoros super interesting. I constantly found myself thinking Kings should get this guy when i watched him play last year. He's everywhere defensively.

Good shooter from there but he's not much better than Barnes when Barnes is in the role to get to the line. Markkanen is about a 25% usage since going to Utah but when he's not the number 1 option he's actually pretty low in free throw rate.

 

[OptimusRhyme]

It's a guard league so it depends on if he can develop those skills to a star level. If not, no he's a 3rd/4th piece but a 3rd/4th piece can be extremely important like Prince was for Detroit back in the day. Markkanen isn't a guard either though. He scores and at really good level and that's pretty much it. Solid everywhere else but nothing spectacular. If you can add him to the Kings without dipping into your need or talent core fine, even if you want to blow you picks away with him... eh. If Grant took 1 and Lauri took 3-4? No, he's not that much better than Grant IMO.

Hes spectacular with his consistency and his efficiency. He brings it every play like Sabonis. he rarely has an off night. Elite shooting, high percentages, great rebounding, offensive mismatches. I dunno i personally love the guy as a fit for this team. I also see the value and need for Murray on this team tho

 

[sactowndog]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1808156227576180749

If KOC says to do it, you absolutely by any means necessary MUST NOT do it

KOC and Ainge are close friends from Boston days. Ainge is trying to pick Monte’s pockets.

Some GM’s feel Monte got taken to the cleaners on the Haliburton trade and you can’t win the play-offs with Domas. I’m pretty sure Ainge would be one of them.

so they are trying for a repeat with Keegan.

 

[SacTownKid]

Hes spectacular with his consistency and his efficiency. He brings it every play like Sabonis. he rarely has an off night. Elite shooting, high percentages, great rebounding, offensive mismatches. I dunno i personally love the guy as a fit for this team. I also see the value and need for Murray on this team tho

I'm not saying he wouldn't be a great target, but giving up a million picks and valuable youth considering his contract is not wise IMO. Again, never trust Ainge, he polishes assets and flips them at an all time high. The Lauri Markkanen the Kings would be getting might be a little closer to the one you saw with the Bulls and Cavs. When his usage goes down, so does the productivity. Yes, still valuable, blowing up the future valuable? Personally, I'm not sure about that, especially if players like Grant or Ingram can be had for far cheaper. Adding talent and still hanging onto some assets is more wise IMO. See what Carter can do. See what Keon can do. See what Murray can do. If they do great? THEN make a move like this using whatever it takes to land a star because those values will be higher. If the Kings hadn't scored on draft night maybe they should be more desperate, but the Kings did. Let it ride like the Hali situation. See how it shakes out. Also, clear some cap, make a run at Lauri next summer.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

The Lauri Markkanen the Kings would be getting might be a little closer to the one you saw with the Bulls and Cavs.

I feel like this can't be said enough.

 

[OptimusRhyme]

The Lauri Markkanen the Kings would be getting might be a little closer to the one you saw with the Bulls and Cavs.

Perhaps but most likely not. He's evolved as a player. Sorround him with an amazing supporting cast and great culture like this current Kings team has and it could also elevate him to the next level.

 

[The_Jamal]

Whether the West is "easier" next season or not, I just don't think you can rest on your laurels. I would have been fine if, after hiring Monte McNair, the Kings had decided to sell off all of their talent for young players, first rounders, and bad contracts that brought back more future picks. They could have gone full Presti. But they were in the middle of a decade-plus playoff drought, they had recently moved into a new arena, and the fans were still as disillusioned as ever. I don't fault the front office for trying to build around Fox. After it was abundantly clear that their mandate was to break the drought, I was a huge proponent of the trade for Sabonis and a huge fan of the Keegan pick. And the Carter pick this off-season was excellent value at 13. But... it's still not enough. If they want to be a perennial playoff team in the west for at least the next handful of seasons, they can't stall out, as you say. Asset depleted though they are, the Kings have to find ways to upgrade starting slots where they just aren't getting enough two-way production. That means repurposing HB and Huerter in some form or fashion.

Honestly, I'm mostly fine with keeping HB and he can be that 3/4 flex bench option. Our offensive creation was atrocious, outside of Monk and adding him to that unit fixes a lot of problems we had last year. And I think you can see the return of good HB with a lower MPG and him getting more minutes vs reserves, not as tough defensive assignments, etc.

If you find the right move for him, you pull it. But just in terms of our team construction, HB makes more sense to keep over Huerter.

Fox || Carter
Keon || Monk
Keegan || HB
???? || Lyles
Domas || Len

If you found the right 4-man, I'd be willing to bet on that being a 50+ win team.

 

[Kingster]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1808156227576180749

If KOC says to do it, you absolutely by any means necessary MUST NOT do it

Yeah, I'd do it if the Kings got three unprotected 1sts from Utah. Give Ainge the message.

 

[AaronPDX]

SO.......are the Kings still after Ingram? LOL

 

[Kingster]

SO.......are the Kings still after Ingram? LOL

IMO, if McNair is playing this the way I think he should be playing it he's feinting on some "targets" and serious on some targets. The surefire way to escalate the price of the player or players he's really interested in is to laser in on one guy (like an Ingram). Let the sellers all be aware that their guy isn't the only fish in the sea.

 

[iowamcnabb]

Honestly, I'm mostly fine with keeping HB and he can be that 3/4 flex bench option. Our offensive creation was atrocious, outside of Monk and adding him to that unit fixes a lot of problems we had last year. And I think you can see the return of good HB with a lower MPG and him getting more minutes vs reserves, not as tough defensive assignments, etc.

If you find the right move for him, you pull it. But just in terms of our team construction, HB makes more sense to keep over Huerter.

Fox || Carter
Keon || Monk
Keegan || HB
???? || Lyles
Domas || Len

If you found the right 4-man, I'd be willing to bet on that being a 50+ win team.

it starts to get difficult to figure out who that piece could be if it’s not one of the big fish. I don’t think Cam Johnson is a big enough of an upgrade . I wonder if Derozan could be had in a sign and trade for Kvon. I’d do that if you could get him on a 3 for 45 or something type deal.

 

[CarlosBob]

Is a no for me.

I want a good role player, good rebounder who can make 2 threes per game while taking care of the best rival interior player at defense. A player who helps Domas and Keegan at the PF position. A player who can be part of our core for the next 5 years with a controlled contract who fits the rest of the salaries.

Isaac? Stewart? I don't know, but that kind of player.

 

[LPKingsFan]

it starts to get difficult to figure out who that piece could be if it’s not one of the big fish. I don’t think Cam Johnson is a big enough of an upgrade . I wonder if Derozan could be had in a sign and trade for Kvon. I’d do that if you could get him on a 3 for 45 or something type deal.

yeah, if it’s just one of the defensive role player types like DFS, I feel it’s likely Brown just keeps starting Barnes and everyone here loses their minds.

DeRozen is interesting. Not the greatest fit, but definitely talented, and if you stagger minutes I think he and Monk could be fun on offense while Fox sits. I just saw he was looking for a one year deal to try to come back on the market next year. Are there many other good teams with the full MLE available and a potential starting forward role open?

 

[The_Jamal]

it starts to get difficult to figure out who that piece could be if it’s not one of the big fish. I don’t think Cam Johnson is a big enough of an upgrade . I wonder if Derozan could be had in a sign and trade for Kvon. I’d do that if you could get him on a 3 for 45 or something type deal.

Idk, I think Cam would be a pretty substantial upgrade. He's like getting an age reset on HB. I'd gladly take the 27 year old version of HB back on this current squad. And he's been a very productive player over his last 3 seasons, so I think we can be confident we're grabbing him in his prime. He's not a stopper on defense, but he is a defensive upgrade on HB, for sure.

Huerter+FRP+contract for Cam works for me. He's a glove fit with us offensively, he's a solid defensive player and has long-term team control. Even if it's a overpay by us, i'll eat that value loss to get the team rebalanced.

 

[twslam07]

We just simply don't have enough trade assets to get guys like Markkanen. Of course Ainge is going to ask for Murray. I mean would you guys trade Murrary for Huerter off a down year and a pair of protected FRPs? I certainly wouldn't so I understand why Ainge isn't looking to give Lauri away. He's a much better player than Keegan is right now. Gotta pay up if you want a 24ppg scorer who rebounds, shoots and isn't a total sieve on defense. His only downfall is he misses 25-40% of the games every year.

I like that Monte is looking to go big I really think we're currently in a situation where we should have been going after realistic rotation players like Jalen Smith, Marshall etc instead of a 3rd wheel to Fox and Sabonis. It's difficult to pull that off when you don't have the trade assets.

If HB was 2021 HB and Davion was looking like a starting PG held back by Fox, we'd have more trade value to deal with but that's not the current situation.

Why would they have to be protected? We can trade unprotected 1sts and unprotected swaps to try and piece together a competitive offer.

Now, would it be enough to beat other team’s offers? Perhaps not, but I don’t think 3 unprotected 1sts and 3 unprotected pick swaps is an insulting offer for Markkanen.

 

[NewArena]

Just think trading Keegan is a mistake. Even if you got Lauri to agree to an extension (not guaranteed), we've seen such significant growth from him over the last 2 years, on both ends, that you have to wait and see if he can make that star leap in the next few seasons. Can't underrate the value of 6 more years of guaranteed team control either, especially in this new market.

Yea, whatever we gain with Lauri, ain’t big enough to justify a loss of Keegan Murray. Not happening

 

[BigVirg]

Honestly, I'm mostly fine with keeping HB and he can be that 3/4 flex bench option. Our offensive creation was atrocious, outside of Monk and adding him to that unit fixes a lot of problems we had last year. And I think you can see the return of good HB with a lower MPG and him getting more minutes vs reserves, not as tough defensive assignments, etc.

If you find the right move for him, you pull it. But just in terms of our team construction, HB makes more sense to keep over Huerter.

Fox || Carter
Keon || Monk
Keegan || HB
???? || Lyles
Domas || Len

If you found the right 4-man, I'd be willing to bet on that being a 50+ win team.

While I agree that's ideal that only works with Lauri and Kuzma. BI's current contract doesn't allow that. Does that change how you value each player as it pertains to making a trade?

Just saw you like CAM as well. That contract works without giving up Barnes as well.

 

[BigVirg]

Why would they have to be protected? We can trade unprotected 1sts and unprotected swaps to try and piece together a competitive offer.

Now, would it be enough to beat other team’s offers? Perhaps not, but I don’t think 3 unprotected 1sts and 3 unprotected pick swaps is an insulting offer for Markkanen.

For an expiring contract?! How's that?! Unless Lauri indicated he's ready to sign an extension that's a giant risk for any team trading for him..

 

[The_Jamal]

While I agree that's ideal that only works with Lauri and Kuzma. BI's current contract doesn't allow that. Does that change how you value each player as it pertains to making a trade?

Of course, if we need to ship both for a BI or Grant or whatever, that's perfectly fine too. But I think if we go for smaller fish (Cam/DFS/Grant Williams), that Huerter should be the priority to ship out over HB, due to roster balance.

 

[NewArena]

Even if Keegan stalls out as a 16-18 point a game guy with plus shooting and defense that’s a hell of a player and super valuable in the league.

And he’ll probably average that as soon as next season, honestly

 

[The_Jamal]

Monte is a minnow among sharks and the other GM’s know it. He has now twice given away assets with picks without an executable plan and the other GM’s smell desperation.

how many years do we have to watch Monte give up draft assets for unused cap space to recognize he is yet another poor GM

Very productive discourse to the conversation, as usual!

What would have been your plan this off-season?

 

[iowamcnabb]

Idk, I think Cam would be a pretty substantial upgrade. He's like getting an age reset on HB. I'd gladly take the 27 year old version of HB back on this current squad. And he's been a very productive player over his last 3 seasons, so I think we can be confident we're grabbing him in his prime. He's not a stopper on defense, but he is a defensive upgrade on HB, for sure.

Huerter+FRP+contract for Cam works for me. He's a glove fit with us offensively, he's a solid defensive player and has long-term team control. Even if it's a overpay by us, i'll eat that value loss to get the team rebalanced.

imo we don’t have enough first round picks to trade to give one up for Cam. He is good but I guess I don’t agree he is a big upgrade over HB. He’s also just a shooter for the most part, doesn’t really give us a wrinkle to our offense that I’d like to see (say shot creation or rim pressure) I dunno, if we aren’t taking a swing, it might just be finding a new home for KVon since we don’t have room fro him at this point and hope that Carter, Keon and Keegan are huge for us next year. Still plenty of time to sign a free agent or make a trade so we shall see

 

[BigVirg]

And he’ll probably average that as soon as next season, honestly

He gets to 18ppg and continue his defensive improvement and he's Mikal Bridges. The guy that just got traded for 5 first round picks.

 

[ESP47]

I'm not saying he wouldn't be a great target, but giving up a million picks and valuable youth considering his contract is not wise IMO. Again, never trust Ainge, he polishes assets and flips them at an all time high. The Lauri Markkanen the Kings would be getting might be a little closer to the one you saw with the Bulls and Cavs. When his usage goes down, so does the productivity. Yes, still valuable, blowing up the future valuable? Personally, I'm not sure about that, especially if players like Grant or Ingram can be had for far cheaper. Adding talent and still hanging onto some assets is more wise IMO. See what Carter can do. See what Keon can do. See what Murray can do. If they do great? THEN make a move like this using whatever it takes to land a star because those values will be higher. If the Kings hadn't scored on draft night maybe they should be more desperate, but the Kings did. Let it ride like the Hali situation. See how it shakes out. Also, clear some cap, make a run at Lauri next summer.

I don't see Lauri losing all the skills he earned over the last couple years and reverting back to his skills from 3-4 years ago. He's a better scorer than Fox. If anything, you'd want Fox looking for Lauri half the time, not Lauri standing in the corner waiting for a kick out if nothing else is available.

Of course when you put three 20pt scorers together, someone's numbers are going to drop but I don't see Lauri just going back to being a regular old role player. He's proven to be a legit scorer in the league and not in the high usage, superficial way like a guy like Kuzma. His play actually seems to be impactful.

 

[sactowndog]

Very productive discourse to the conversation, as usual!

What would have been your plan this off-season?

this and last season and the season before I would have:

Kept my picks and gone with my strength which is drafting.

Look to trade expiring assets like Holmes and others to teams trying to shed assets for more picks or role players.

not worried about making a major free agency move and maybe use some picks in a trade for a major player but never picks for a Role player because I can draft those and they are cheaper.

 

[The_Jamal]

imo we don’t have enough first round picks to trade to give one up for Cam. He is good but I guess I don’t agree he is a big upgrade over HB. He’s also just a shooter for the most part, doesn’t really give us a wrinkle to our offense that I’d like to see (say shot creation or rim pressure) I dunno, if we aren’t taking a swing, it might just be finding a new home for KVon since we don’t have room fro him at this point and hope that Carter, Keon and Keegan are huge for us next year. Still plenty of time to sign a free agent or make a trade so we shall see

Hmm, possibly. Maybe I'm on an island here, but I honestly don't see a huge gap between Cam and that Kuzma/Grant/LaVine tier. I think Cam's one of those guys that can just really take off on a good team and be an elite starting role player. He already showed that his last year in PHX and continued his strong play with BKN.

And you're adding him to HB in the wing rotation, not fully replacing him. So you beef up the wing rotation, you have 4 guards, 3 wings and 3 bigs that we feel really good about as a strong rotation. That's quality roster balance.