Kings 2009-2010 NBA Draft:

Well, I said he didn't have much upside left, not "no upside left." I don't believe in just looking at years in the league to determine their stage of development, not all rookies are created equal.

You're looking a lot at overall ability, I'm looking more at specific abilities that are hard to find. He's very long, strong, has good hands, and good shot blocking instincts. Plus, there is reason to believe that he's being undervalued because of how underexposed he was in college. So there's a chance that the rule that bigs are less likely to pan out past the first 5 picks or so, won't necessarily apply to him as much. I think he'll be able to develop into a good rebounder. It's a risk, but the downside of losing Thompson, or Hawes+protected future pick for a bust is not catastrophic. He's the model of what we still need if we decide against Cousins, or are not in a position to get him. Waiting around for a developed player like that to come along may not be the best strategy. I think he's talented enough to warrant a late lotto pick in any draft, that's just my opinion on him at this point though. I wouldn't expect anyone else to agree to this unless they thought fairly highly of him.

Thompson being the best rebounder on this team isn't really saying much. If we go forward depending on Thompson as our best rebounder, we're headed nowhere anyway. I suppose it may hurt us in that area next year, but it's not like Thompson is a great rebounder or anything, he's a good rebounder. The difference between him and his replacement(s) probably won't be that huge.

See that's the difference between you and me. First off, I don't really concern myself too much with keeping players together unless they're part of the core, or you already have a complete core. I don't consider Thompson to be apart of the core, nor do I think our core is nearly complete. I see him as a role playing starter at best. A gap filler. Which is not without its value, I'd just rather trade that in for a chance (even if it's not necessarily a highly probable chance) at a much more valued core piece.

I respect your position baja, but personally, I'm more inclined to roll the dice.

I completely understand your position. I guess the difference between us, isn't whether we would want Orton, but what were willing to give up to get him. I'd be willing to let go of Hawes. Reluctantly, but he's already had his three years. I do see Thompson as one of our core pieces. I think he capable of 15 to 17 points and 10 boards a game and playing good defense. If he can do that, then he's one of the better PF's in the league. He's also very durable and capable of playing two positions. Now that may not make him a superstar, but it makes him more than just a throw away player in a trade.

I tend to be more patient with players. Comes from making too many mistakes in the past. Nowitzki was almost booed out of Dallas his first year. His second year was better, but it wasn't until his third year that he looked like the Dirk we all know today. Now everyone can say, yeah well, we all knew he was going to be good eventually, but I don't think they did. There were fans in Dallas that after his second year, wanted to trade Nowitzki while he appeared to have some value.

So while your the dice roller, I'm the careful one. Hey, it takes all kinds to make the world go round.
 
Like I said before, not all rookies are at the same stage of development. I think Thompson was a lot further along than Dirk was.
 
For those not familiar with Hobson, he has a build similar to Doug Christie. Long and lanky. He's a very good defender and as the article states, he played point guard as well as SG and SF. He averaged 15.9 PPG and 9.3 RPG. His assist to turnover ratio is 4.6 to 2.9. He's a decent to good ballhandler and passer. I would say that he's a better passer than a ballhandler, but he's certainly good enough at either to bring up the ball, and on occasion, initiate the offense.

He's a decent shooter, but once again not great. He tends to be a little streaky. He's a good athlete, but not a great one. I'd give Christie the edge in athleticism. He has a lot of rough edges, but definitely has upside. Especially if your looking for someone to handle the ball a little and play defense. He's not bad at getting to the basket, but sometimes has trouble with his handle in traffic and tends to turn the ball over. He loves to post up, and is a very good offensive rebounder. He's not bad at creating his own shot, but has trouble hitting it. He's a much better shooter when he has his feet set.

I like Hobson, but he's certainly not my first choice. I guess if your looking for a player that can play three positions, you'd have to give him consideration. I'd still rather have Dominique Jones, although its looking more and more like he'll go in the first round.
 
I just noticed that you've been puttin' in mucho trabajo (ar?) Bajaden. I remember us having a similar post count the last time I looked, and now you've exploded to 6,000+.

Amazazing.
 
He's an intriguing prospect. He used to be 6'7" but now grown to be a 6-9 shooting guard. He'd be fantastic next to Tyreke. A little too high to pick at #5 though.


I asked my buddy who writes for Cal and Nevada about George and he said this kid isnt very bright, not a good shooter and isnt a very good team mate. but can dunk out of the gym.. with Tyreke developing his jumper, due we want to put a bad none shooting guard next to him?
 
I asked my buddy who writes for Cal and Nevada about George and he said this kid isnt very bright, not a good shooter and isnt a very good team mate. but can dunk out of the gym.. with Tyreke developing his jumper, due we want to put a bad none shooting guard next to him?

I was assuming he could shoot, based on what other people are saying on here. But that may not be the case from what you telling me. :)
 
Paul George's shot is really streaky. When his 3-pt shot is working he looks great and when it's not he struggles to score. He is very reliant on the long ball, too much for a guy who shoots only 35% from there.

He reminds me a little bit of Nacholas Batum with similar problems/potential at roughly the same age. I think his role in the NBA is along the Batum/Michael Pietrus mold. But George seems to need to grow into the role while the two Frenchmen seem to have already embraced it at the time they entered the league.

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I just noticed that you've been puttin' in mucho trabajo (ar?) Bajaden. I remember us having a similar post count the last time I looked, and now you've exploded to 6,000+.

Amazazing.

My other options are to drink cervesa's and look at the bay. Now that I think of it, those are probably better options.:rolleyes:
 
No. 5 selection and the way I see chances of picking specific candidates. Musings on a Thursday afternoon in Sacramento.

Assumptions on who's available: Not available - Walls, Turner; 2% available- Favors; 45% available - Johnson; 55% available - Cousins; all the rest 100% available.

My first take - Cousins 43%, Johnson 42%, Monroe 5%, Favors 2%, Aminu, Udoh, Aldrich, and all other 2% each or a total of 8%. Grand total 100%.

Obviously I used a few other WAG assumptions plus some pshn80 windage - certainly doesn't mean much but I enjoy doing it. Maybe I should try one of Bajaden's other options.
 
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No. 5 selection and the way I see chances of picking specific candidates. Musings on a Thursday afternoon in Sacramento.

Assumptions on who's available: Not available - Walls, Turner; 2% available- Favors; 45% available - Johnson; 55% available - Cousins; all the rest 100% available.

My first take - Cousins 43%, Johnson 42%, Monroe 5%, Favors 2%, Aminu, Udoh, Aldrich, and all other 2% each or a total of 8%. Grand total 100%.

Obviously I used a few other WAG assumptions plus some pshn80 windage - certainly doesn't mean much but I enjoy doing it. Maybe I should try one of Bajaden's other options.

I think you've struck upon a successful plan. Bottoms up!!;)
 
Anyone want to try Lazar Hayward with our #33rd pick? Maybe a bit too high based on draftnik projections, but I've taken a liking to the guy, especially with the SF-converted college PF with range being successful in the league, a la Jared Dudley/Wesley Matthews. A lot of variables will need to fall into place for Hayward to be like Dudley, namely the proper team/proper usage of his niche skillset, but the foundation is there.

As an athlete, Hayward ranks highly with me: Hayward possesses both strength and length, both of which are in the upper echelon category for your prototypical NBA SF. Moreover, he has surprisingly good leaping ability and excellent lateral quickness, so he could be able to guard many different breeds of wings in the NBA. He's not a speedster nor is he large (in fact having a small standing reach despite his wingspan), but he possesses a number of physical attributes that will help him defend his position (like Jared Dudley does now).

Skillwise, Hayward also has quite a few, but has enough weaknesses to limit him as a niche player in the NBA: he's actually an above average scorer in the league, and he largely does it as a specialist capacity: as a jumpshooter, and through tip-ins hustling around the basket. However, two primary things impede him here: Hayward's not a natural shooter, nor does have the ballhandling ability/post moves to operate in the paint. As a shooter, Hayward's rather poor in his mid-range game and just mediocre throughout his career from three (although his free throw percentage in recent years, at 80+%, gives hope this can be improved). Hayward's leaping ability doesn't translate into dunking, as he rarely dunks, but he gets tons of tip-ins especially for a player who stands merely 6'6", indicating his hustling ability. He rarely gets to the line as he rarely slashes/utilizes a post game, and his passing skills are very limited--but he limits his turnovers and plays without the ball in his hands, so he understands his niche role extremely well. Ultimately, a large part of his success in the NBA is whether he can really improve his shooting ability--it's not a given especially with his mediocre results at college--but if this is combined with his ability to hustle for easy points, he'll make himself into a nice tertiary offensive player on the court.

His other skills are very good: he's an excellent rebounder for the SF position, doing it on both ends of the court but in particular on the offensive rebounds (hence the tons of tip-ins), and reasonable enough at the passing lanes as well. With his high energy level of play, he also tends to be very foul prone, however.

Hayward wasn't really an impact player on either end of the court for Marquette this past season, but with his niche game, low turnover rate as well as his middling possessions he's certainly well-equipped to a role player who understands his role in the NBA. That combined with his skills and physical tools immediately puts him as good value anywhere in the 2nd round, IMO, as there's little bust potential with a player who has niche skills and knows his role. He's a high-energy hustle player with a foundation of solid shooting ability already intact, thus differentiating him from other "pure" hustle players in the league, not to mention that he has the athletic tools to perhaps become a quality defensive player in the league as well. He's not the "sexiest" NBA prospect, but like Matthews and Dudley before him, he has the dimensions that can make him a valuable cog player for a contending team in due time. As noted, he needs to join the right team to emphasize his defense and to help him improve his shooting ability to maximize his value.
 
^^ I think you described him very well. He has the ability to be a very nice role player in the NBA.

Here's a pretty cool article about him from ESPN last year. One thing the article talks about was how he bulked up to play the 4 and 5 in the Big East, costing him some quickness. Now that he's out of school he might have leaned, which would explain why he showed up quicker and more athletic than expected at the combine.

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/columns/story?columnist=oneil_dana&id=3896613
 
I like Hayward, but I think 33 is a little too high for him. But I think a lot depends on who we draft at 5, and what trades might take place. I, like a lot of people have my favorite players. I also think that this is draft where the Kings can settle their power positions once and for all. So I'm inclined to take a big man at 5 and another big man at 33.. Depending on whose there of course.
 
I like Hayward, but I think 33 is a little too high for him. But I think a lot depends on who we draft at 5, and what trades might take place. I, like a lot of people have my favorite players. I also think that this is draft where the Kings can settle their power positions once and for all. So I'm inclined to take a big man at 5 and another big man at 33.. Depending on whose there of course.

I'm inclined to agree with you. Particulary with a draft that is so deep on big guys who can be legit NBA players. That's such a rarity that you almost have to pounce when the opportunity presents itself. Parakhouski, Varnado, Trevor Booker maybe. Those are valuable guys.

That said, imagine if you started the draft with Cousins. Now you're bigman rotation is Cousins, JT, Landry, and Hawes. You'd have a very long starting PF/C combo with Cousins and JT and just a very potent, flexible unit. JT and Landry as a small unit. Cousins and Hawes as a big unit. Hawes doesn't even need to get that much better to be a very solid backup center.

Of course with Landry being a free agent it would make a lot of sense to get another guy in the 2nd if you could. This was just more an exercise to daydream how much of a difference one standout center could make.
 
The reason I brought up Lazar Hayward at #33 is because Petrie has a recent history of drafting unheralded players/those under the radar in the 2nd round--Ricky Minard (2004), Sean Singletary/Pat Ewing Jr (2008), and he traded for Brockman's rights just this past draft. Minard and Brockman were late risers in the draft, but in general all four of these players were deemed to be late 2nd round/undrafted material. Granted, only Brockman appears to have panned out, but it's an interesting observation nonetheless. That's why I wouldn't be too surprised if Petrie actually ends up taking Hayward at #33. Might not be the popular opinion move, but it could potentially pan out if it occurs.

Another guy I want to bring up at #33 is Devin Ebanks...because I get this feeling that is stock is dropping like a rock. Physically, his best asset might be his height in combination with his length--his standing reach is similar to that of the average PF in the league, so he's quite big and long. However, he tested out poorly in other areas that might hinder his success in his league--he doesn't leap well at all (in fact, he was the worst among SFs this year), doesn't possess much strength, and has very suspect lateral quickness and overall speed. Nonetheless, he's what I call a "length defender with smarts" a la Rasual Butler--his team defense was pretty good this season, and he's an above average shotblocker as well, although his intercepting ability leaves something to be desired. At least he plays defense without fouling. Very similar to Rasual Butler in this respect, but I seriously doubt, with his physical deficiencies, he's a defensive stopper--more like "roamer."

Besides the relatively poor testing of his physical measurements, offensively might be why Ebanks' stock is dropping the most. He projects to be a poor offensive player in this league, and it's easy to see why. He has virtually no semblance of a jumpshot--he takes tons of mid-range J's but shoots extremely poorly on them, although his free throw percentage (mid 70s) gives slight hope that it can improve. He lacks college three point range, much less NBA three point range, as well. Ebanks plays mid-range in, and he does slash to the basket quite a bit and gets to the line somewhat, but he's not really a good finisher; he also doesn't dunk very often, indicating his limited lift. He doesn't really use too many possessions, but he has limited handles as well, as he does suffer from turnover problems. He also fared extremely poorly in the shooting drills portion of the predraft camp, indicating that this part of his game might be a lingering problem. Ultimately, it's his shooting that might hinder his chances of success in the NBA--he really lacks a viable offensive quality: he can't shoot mid-range and beyond, and he lacks the athleticism to really finish effectively. It's so bad to the point that if he doesn't improve, his teammates might be playing 4-on-5 offensively when he's on the court. It really knocks his stock down severely.

Where Ebanks regains some points is through his all-around game--Ebanks is a superb rebounder for a small forward, grabbing them at both ends of the court, and he's also a pretty good passer with court vision, although as said he has slight turnover issues. Even though Ebanks individually struggles to score, he does have decent offensive instincts with that passing ability, and his offensive impact is in the slight positive. But like Ronnie Brewer before him, the passing might be neutralized if he can't shoot the ball, and he might lack the strength to consistently rebound the ball well.

So overall there's tons of questions about Ebanks on two primary fronts--his physical tools aren't impressive enough individually to justify a place in the league, his offensive game is definitely in the undrafted-type category. This has trickle-down effects on the pluses of his game--his rebounding and passing might be neutralized because of it. He definitely has endearing qualities--he appears to be big on the court due to his height and length, and his roaming defense translates to the league--and those two qualities alone, combined with his latent rebounding and passing, would probably be enough to get him drafted before pick #35, at the latest. But there's definite flameout potential with him particularly stemming from his severely undeveloped jumper, but in the 2nd round those risks are neutralized. It's really hard to imagine his peak--I guess he can be a fine defensive roamer/hustling type, but that normally constitutes an 8th-9th man, at best. But he's rather unique with his skillset/tools, and at #33 he can be an interesting proposition.
 
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