Insomniacal Fan
Starter
There's a time to sow, and then there's a time to reap
Keon Ellis
- Thread starter Tetsujin
- Start date
ShastaKingsFan
All-Star
and if he turns down whatever offer they come up with and he walks for nothing next summer?
There better not be a negotiation. If they didn't have a handshake deal in place, then Perry failed spectacularly by allowing his RFA to fall ofd
Insomniacal Fan
Starter
Carter gets some minutes? Negligible effect on whether the Kings are in the playoffs.
ShastaKingsFan
All-Star
You value him that little? I couldn't disagree more
Insomniacal Fan
Starter
I think he's better than Carter at the moment, which is why he's ahead in the rotation. I think he gets an MLE in free agency (~15mill a year)
And I think Carter is a younger, and in a year will be a cheaper version of the same kind of player
ShastaKingsFan
All-Star
I don't see Carter ever coming close to Keon as a shooter
Caccia
Starter
Probably not from distance, but Carter drives to the basket a lot better, and will only improve.
Jdbraver137
Bench
Carter cannot pass and stay out of other better players way. Maybe in 3 years he will be able to crack the rotation of a normal team but he has not lived up to the hype. Keon is WAY better.
iowamcnabb
Hall of Famer
I think Keon is slightly overrated because we have so few defenders. His defensive archetype can be replaced but the biggest difference for him is the shooting. He is pretty much an elite shooter at this point.
He still pump fakes too much instead of letting it fly but if he could take 6-9 threes a game and shoot 40-43 percent from 3 he will get paid nicely this year. NAW got around 15 mil, I’d think a 4 for 40 deal for Keon would be perfect. I’d be curious what his agent thinks he can get.
He still pump fakes too much instead of letting it fly but if he could take 6-9 threes a game and shoot 40-43 percent from 3 he will get paid nicely this year. NAW got around 15 mil, I’d think a 4 for 40 deal for Keon would be perfect. I’d be curious what his agent thinks he can get.
ShastaKingsFan
All-Star
That's the thing, is they call it "3 and D". Not just a defensive role player. He has posted really good to elite shooting % every where he plays and he doesn't force or take bad shots, which is bonus value. I'd be shocked if he didn't get a lot more than 10 mil a year at a 4/40.
Ironically, I believe there are several playoff teams where he would get more playing time than it looks like he will for the Kings until the deadline
iowamcnabb
Hall of Famer
NAW is a comparable player but I think he has more value league wide that Keon does. It’s hard to say, if he re-signs with us we will likely have to pay the Kings tax so maybe he ends up in the 13-15 mil a year range. Aaron Wiggins got 5 for 45 although he is already outplaying that number.
ShastaKingsFan
All-Star
The initials NAW aren't coming to mind. Could you do me a favor and just type the players actual name?
iowamcnabb
Hall of Famer
Nickeil Alexander-Walker
Bosnian Diehard
Starter
I’d say you can find plenty of 3 and D guys in the NBA, but he is arguably elite at both ends. The guy has All-Defense potential and shoots consistently well. He is a hard player to find these days.
Tetsujin
The Game Thread Dude
NAW is larger than Keon and capable of standing up against most threes in the league so that’s where his value differs from Keon. Keon abetted perimeter shooter though.
Eh, I don't think so. Analytics rate Keon incredibly well and that matches the eye test when he's on the floor.
He'd be incredibly impactful on any team, but the fact we are a bad defensive squad makes his contribution that much more important
Caccia
Starter
You must not have watched him play in summer league. None of what you suggest was true. Yes, I know, it was summer league. But he has not even played a minute in the first two games--zero--so let's not be too hasty to judge.
kingsfan101
Starter
Even if Carter becomes a significantly better player than Keon, losing Keon for nothing would be a huge blow and an egg on Scott's face.
Keon has value, good value, around the league. If we think Carter can replace him, we should use him as an asset, and get get returns on a position of need. Good franchises don't bleed talent. That's how bad franchises stay bad.
Honestly, should never have come to this. He should have been locked up when we had control. Now, we are hoping he doesn't leave.
TaxMan
Starter
At this point, whether they give him playing time or not, I feel like Keon is going to weigh more than money in his next contract. I can't believe all of these players aren't looking at the current state of things with this club and thinking it would be wise for the long term career to jump ship. That was the true danger with the contract decision with Keon. Unless Keon really has a thing for Perry's daily affirmations.
The ONLY benefit we have is the middle class of the NBA is pretty clearly beyond screwed at this point if they try to hit FA. There's just no money anywhere, so it's gotten to a point where guys just kind of have to return to their squad if they want anything close to their asking price. I think next summer is pretty similar to this summer where there's just nowhere for anyone to go.
It doesn't excuse poor team planning at all, but if Keon got like 4/50 from us, I don't know how many teams would even be capable of matching that $ amount.
He didn't though, he's had a 6+ months and a full off-season at this point. If he were hired 2 weeks ago, sure, not his issue.
People complain about the Monte roster construction and Perry flat out made it worse by bringing in Dennis and Russ to an already crowded back-court. Traded Jval for Saric (Who's averaging 10-5 right now for DEN in 12.5 MPG off the bench fwiw), in what we thought was for a trade, but turns out was actually just us losing a damn good rotation player for a guy who will be out the league next year. The Jval replacement, Eubanks, seemingly just got replaced by an undrafted 2-way rookie who hasn't realized that basketball includes offense as well as defense. Let Keon's RFA rights fall off for "flexibility" past signing Dennis, but we didn't do anything and he's now a UFA going forward. I don't want to hear about a secret "handshake" deal either. He doesn't get credit for a secret "handshake" deal until it happens. You had the guaranteed team control for the teams best defender and let it run out.
The draft was excellent. Trading up for Nique, Maxime is a 1st round talent in the 2nd round and I'm already ready to say Cardwell can be a special defender if he figures out how to stay on the floor with his offense.
If we remove his draft, I don't think there's a single move I would classify as anywhere close to good. Add in a baffling start for Christie, the new Perry/Christie regime is off to a rough rough start.
LPKingsFan
All-Star
All roads lead to the deal for Schroder. They explored a sign and trade for Monk, but instead used the Huerter trade exception, so to stay under the tax (I think they are right under the line?) they downgraded from Val to Saric and kicked the can down the road on the Keon contract. All because they were so focused on getting a PG at $14 million. Could they have gotten by with Westbrook and another vet minimum?
But yeah, I loved the draft.
But yeah, I loved the draft.
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If we successfully trade DDR and Monk for first round picks, I think in large part that is going to be due to Schröder and Russ making them look good. If we don't then we wasted development. I still hope that Schröder's agent being Keon's agent is meaningful.
A lot of people see Keon and think we are burying him. He still seems to foul guys shooting the 3 more than he should and I imagine that gets him sent to the bench. Plus he could be a little less hesitant on his shot. I don't know if those are related and fear of being benched plays into the shot hesitation. But more and more people around the league are seeing him and beginning to want him.
I do wonder if there is sell high opportunity on him with this contract expiring and a new team getting Bird rights in a trade. How far away is this team from even having the hope we had after the first year Beam Team? 3-4 years??? I guess if Keegan makes a huge leap it might feel different because all our building blocks feel like 3rd options at best.
A lot of people see Keon and think we are burying him. He still seems to foul guys shooting the 3 more than he should and I imagine that gets him sent to the bench. Plus he could be a little less hesitant on his shot. I don't know if those are related and fear of being benched plays into the shot hesitation. But more and more people around the league are seeing him and beginning to want him.
I do wonder if there is sell high opportunity on him with this contract expiring and a new team getting Bird rights in a trade. How far away is this team from even having the hope we had after the first year Beam Team? 3-4 years??? I guess if Keegan makes a huge leap it might feel different because all our building blocks feel like 3rd options at best.
I don't follow. Monk/DDR/LaVine have all played well to start the year in spite of Russ/Dennis struggling so far. Keon had foul trouble for sure, but he's absolutely playing a muted role because Dennis/Russ are on the team. And Carter is just in the shadow realm at this point.
And I hate coaches that nitpick a young guy to death when he makes a mistake (Did IJ even make a mistake last night), but then vets are allowed to play through any errors they might have.
The excuse with Carter too has been his offense is soooo unbelievably bad that even if he's a ++ defender, it's not worth getting him on the court. And yet, Russ/Dennis are taking a ton of shots, being inefficient with those shots and turning the ball over at a high rate. So at least so far the "stabilize the offense" of us absolutely 1000% needing a "real PG" this summer has been a failure.
Joshyjosh31
Starter
That gives him the green light to bury a lottery pick on the bench for year of Westbrook?!
SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
I'm really starting to talk myself into the idea that Vivek doesn't want a winner and doesn't care about tickets, he just wants a team capable of entertaining him on a nightly basis. The easiest way to do that is signing these types.
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