Keep THIS starting lineup? (merged)

[Kings241]

we can talk all we want but we all know there is no way in the world RA is gonna change the staring 5. the good thing about these injuries is were findinh out we actually have a bench! with K-MART and kenny coming off the bench when the kings get healthy they are a top 5 team in the west no matter what the record is right now

Yes I agree, Shareef is not going to lose his starting job just because KT played one good game. Shareef is the most consistent guy in the team plus he plays inside and has great post moves. He's also shown the ability to use his skills against PFs like KG and Tim Duncan.

 

[Insomniacal Fan]

Kenny will have plenty of opportunity to prove himself. I think if we play well and Kenny plays well in Reef's absence Kenny has a very solid shot at keeping the starting slot. I'm sure RA would be happy with anything that works at this point.

 

[SIR HENRY 8]

The next few weeks will tell us a lot about how our bench is capable of playing.Will be interesting to see how RA will pair players up once were all healthy,but i think he will stay loyal to the orig. starting 5,who knows by the time they are all able to come back,some might be gone.

 

[Sum182]

Better off without Stojakovic, Abdul-Rahim, and Wells?

Does the Kings improved with three of the starters out?

With Stojakovic out, the team gets better, since he's shooting has been a dissapointment this season, his defense sucks and he is a soft player. Francisco is much better, not because his offense, but for his deffense and clutch.

With Abdul Rahim out, the team stays the same, since Kenny Thomas is the same crap.

With Wells out, the team is worse, since He gets the most rebounds, he can shoot, he is a great stealer and he's a clutch player. Kevin Martin is a Great player with a lot of potential his shooting is good, his clutch is impressive and his speed in the court is great. He should be added to the starting lineup.

When I see the kings without these starters, I see an athletic team like Dallas. The Kings have won two games without three starters. This means we have a great bench that a Coach does'nt know how to apply them with the starters. I hope Adelman had learned something from this two games about how to apply the bench to give them their max potential.

The leader has been noticed through this two games: MIKE BIBBY.

The starting 5 should be:

PG Mike Bibby
SG Kevin Martin
SF Bonzi Wells
PF Abdul Rahim or Kenny Thomas
C Brad Miller

 

[16to93]

I'm not protecting Peja but I don't like Garcia that much. I think he could be solid in the future but he takes to many silly shots and turns the ball over alot.

 

[playmaker0017]

Isn't there 12 other posts spewing forth the same idiotic ignorance?

PS - Who the hell is Abdul-Rahim?

 

[Kev.in]

We're a quicker and more athletic team without those three, so we get back on defense, get more people on the boards and get our wing players out on the attack faster. I'd say those two things have been big keys in the last two games. The one big minus is consistency. Martin has been solid in his starts, but he just now put together two solid efforts for the first time in his young career. Kenny has his moments and you never know what you're going to get from Garcia.

Over time, I don't think a lineup change would make too much difference either way.

 

[Ekarin_SM]

We're a quicker and more athletic team without those three, so we get back on defense, get more people on the boards and get our wing players out on the attack faster. I'd say those two things have been big keys in the last two games. The one big minus is consistency. Martin has been solid in his starts, but he just now put together two solid efforts for the first time in his young career. Kenny has his moments and you never know what you're going to get from Garcia.

Over time, I don't think a lineup change would make too much difference either way.

i thought they gave up 52% FG shooting

but i didnt watch the game so sorry if i misleading the topic... stats can be evil!!!

 

[playmaker0017]

We're a quicker and more athletic team without those three

That's probably true.

so we get back on defense

Doesn't show on the scoreboard, through the stats or through any game I've watched.

I'd say those two things have been big keys in the last two games.

Not to mention the two teams were flailing around in a slump.

Over time, I don't think a lineup change would make too much difference either way.

I completely disagree. This lineup doesn't have the talent to continue to win, in my opinion. I could be wrong, considering the system we run ... but I just don't see a team that is giving up over 50% from the floor is going to win many games.

 

[BawLa]

Kenny will have plenty of opportunity to prove himself. I think if we play well and Kenny plays well in Reef's absence Kenny has a very solid shot at keeping the starting slot. I'm sure RA would be happy with anything that works at this point.

Good Point.

Lets not forget that RA has suffered some criticism and don't think for one minute that he is not being judged. RA does not make dramatic changes historically, but his job could be on the line so don't be surprised if he starts to think "outside the box".

 

[funkykingston]

When key starters go out, teams generally play good ball for a couple games. This is usually attributed to the team "picking up the slack" for the missing guy or guys. Remaining starters step up their game (as Brad and Mike have done, getting more aggressive offensively) and the bench players bring a lot of energy, trying to prove their worth.

This happens with most teams. The Lakers won 3 of 4 games last year after Kobe went down with a badly sprained ankle (4 of 5 if you count the game that Kobe left before halftime) before dropping 3 straight.

The short answer to the question is: No, the Kings aren't better without those guys.

They beat a slumping Clippers team, although their hustle and energy was an improvement. It wasn't as if they beat the Pistons in Detroit, but there was some value to that victory. On the other hand, almost choking away a 15 point lead at home against a bad Boston team is not a feather in this team's hat. It was a W, which the team desperately needs, but it wasn't any kind of statement.

The Kings need Bonzi's toughness back. And though I'm hardly his most vigorous defender right now, the Kings either need Peja back or they need Garcia to do two things: take better shots (and make them) and cut out the stupid mistakes.

Or maybe starting Martin and moving Wells to the 3 would be a good thing. I suggested as much in another thread. But I don't think you can do that unless Peja is traded. He is Petrie's best piece in terms of trying to improve the team. Benching him hurts that process. And if the team doesn't intend to move Stojakovic, benching him only guarantees that he'll bolt at the end of the season, leaving the team empty handed.

This team needs a shakeup, but a lineup change isn't going to be enough. . .

 

[piksi]

Well, If You put current lineup against Price, Wells, Pedja, SAR, Skinner - what do You think which one would win ?

 

[acisking]

Winning 2 games against slumping teams means absolutely nothing I'm afraid.....regardless, you are basically saying that the lineup should be pretty much the same thing except with martin instead of peja. While I am no Peja fan, I don't really see how that helps address any of our weaknesses.

 

[playmaker0017]

Well, If You put current lineup against Price, Wells, Pedja, SAR, Skinner - what do You think which one would win ?

Price, Wells, Pedja, SAR, Skinner - they walk away with an easy victory.

 

[piksi]

Price, Wells, Pedja, SAR, Skinner - they walk away with an easy victory.

that takes care of the whole thread

 

[BMiller52]

Price, Wells, Pedja, SAR, Skinner - they walk away with an easy victory.

heck no. Bibby/martin/garcia/thomas/miller kills them.

 

[VF21]

I'd use Bibby/Martin/Williamson/Thomas/Miller against Price/Wells/Peja/SAR/Skinner and make sure Corliss is all over Peja like a cheap suit.

 

[piksi]

I'd use Bibby/Martin/Williamson/Thomas/Miller against Price/Wells/Peja/SAR/Skinner and make sure Corliss is all over Peja like a cheap suit.

You mean the "3 fouls in 2 minutes" Corliss who had to guard someone on perimeter. He would foul out in one quarter. And yes, he is too slow for Pedja

 

[BMiller52]

You mean the "3 fouls in 2 minutes" Corliss who had to guard someone on perimeter. He would foul out in one quarter. And yes, he is too slow for Pedja

Put martin on peja then. His athleticism would bother peja since peja doesn't usually post people up. Besides, it doesn't matter. The other team has bibby+miller who are both better than peja.

 

[Circa_1985_Fan]

In light of the recent injuries, we have seen more from supposedly a lesser starting crew. What do you all think of this lineup? Keep in mind it is working with what we have.


Starting: Bibby, Martin, Bonzi, KT, Miller

Bench: Price/Hart, Garcia, Peja/Corliss, SAR, Skinner


This would give us actually more options coming off the bench based on the particular matchup and believe it or not, more rebounding out of the starting crew. We lose some size at the SF, but Bonzi is twice as athletic as Peja so i'm sure he could do a good enough job. KT might have some trouble guarding in certain matchups so you still give SAR some solid minutes/starts.

I dont want Martin in the starting lineup, for every great follow-up dunk he makes, he takes 4 ill-advised and immature shots. I still would rather have Peja in there before him, but hey, these days I might think twice about that.

 

[Circa_1985_Fan]

When key starters go out, teams generally play good ball for a couple games. This is usually attributed to the team "picking up the slack" for the missing guy or guys. Remaining starters step up their game (as Brad and Mike have done, getting more aggressive offensively) and the bench players bring a lot of energy, trying to prove their worth.

This happens with most teams. The Lakers won 3 of 4 games last year after Kobe went down with a badly sprained ankle (4 of 5 if you count the game that Kobe left before halftime) before dropping 3 straight.

The short answer to the question is: No, the Kings aren't better without those guys.

They beat a slumping Clippers team, although their hustle and energy was an improvement. It wasn't as if they beat the Pistons in Detroit, but there was some value to that victory. On the other hand, almost choking away a 15 point lead at home against a bad Boston team is not a feather in this team's hat. It was a W, which the team desperately needs, but it wasn't any kind of statement.

The Kings need Bonzi's toughness back. And though I'm hardly his most vigorous defender right now, the Kings either need Peja back or they need Garcia to do two things: take better shots (and make them) and cut out the stupid mistakes.

Or maybe starting Martin and moving Wells to the 3 would be a good thing. I suggested as much in another thread. But I don't think you can do that unless Peja is traded. He is Petrie's best piece in terms of trying to improve the team. Benching him hurts that process. And if the team doesn't intend to move Stojakovic, benching him only guarantees that he'll bolt at the end of the season, leaving the team empty handed.

This team needs a shakeup, but a lineup change isn't going to be enough. . .

You hit THAT nail on the head. GREAT post!

 

[piksi]

Put martin on peja then. His athleticism would bother peja since peja doesn't usually post people up. Besides, it doesn't matter. The other team has bibby+miller who are both better than peja.

While Bibby is much better player overall he could not guard the quickness of Price, Noone could guard Bonzi. Skinner would provide a little shotblocking compared to none of Miller. SAR and KT even if it is equal won't matter much. Zone against Pedja - seen that before. So basically You get the ball out of Bibby's hand like Boston in the 4th and it is an easy game because with Bonzi and SAR it would be a layup drill on one side against jumpshooting on the other

 

[BawLa]

When key starters go out, teams generally play good ball for a couple games. This is usually attributed to the team "picking up the slack" for the missing guy or guys. Remaining starters step up their game (as Brad and Mike have done, getting more aggressive offensively) and the bench players bring a lot of energy, trying to prove their worth.

This happens with most teams. The Lakers won 3 of 4 games last year after Kobe went down with a badly sprained ankle (4 of 5 if you count the game that Kobe left before halftime) before dropping 3 straight.

The short answer to the question is: No, the Kings aren't better without those guys.

They beat a slumping Clippers team, although their hustle and energy was an improvement. It wasn't as if they beat the Pistons in Detroit, but there was some value to that victory. On the other hand, almost choking away a 15 point lead at home against a bad Boston team is not a feather in this team's hat. It was a W, which the team desperately needs, but it wasn't any kind of statement.

The Kings need Bonzi's toughness back. And though I'm hardly his most vigorous defender right now, the Kings either need Peja back or they need Garcia to do two things: take better shots (and make them) and cut out the stupid mistakes.

Or maybe starting Martin and moving Wells to the 3 would be a good thing. I suggested as much in another thread. But I don't think you can do that unless Peja is traded. He is Petrie's best piece in terms of trying to improve the team. Benching him hurts that process. And if the team doesn't intend to move Stojakovic, benching him only guarantees that he'll bolt at the end of the season, leaving the team empty handed.

This team needs a shakeup, but a lineup change isn't going to be enough. . .

What you said was close to poetry.

We just got a shakeup of a sort. Is it enough?

 

[CruzDude]

I think we all want Bonzi in the starting lineup. But he is out for at least 3 more weeks it appears. Shouldn't we be looking at the best ideas now until he comes back?

If Peja's back is suspect, having him in and out of the line up may hurt more than help. But Cisco has been erratic and inconsistent with no outside shot. Maybe KT as SF, Miller at the 5 and, and..... and.... hmmm what big body at the 4? Skinner? no outside shots. Corliss? too small vs. most other 4's but can hold his own down low, but again no 15-18 ft shot. So, Skinner at the 5 and Miller at the 4.

Maybe Erik Daniels? Marty McNeal mentioned him this morning. Great ball handler, agressive rebounder, only 6-8 but another KT type who is much better ball handler (had been point guard in high school until he go too big).

Thats my 2¢ worth starting the new year.

Happy New Year everyone

 

[playmaker0017]

heck no. Bibby/martin/garcia/thomas/miller kills them.

The only matchup that is in that lineup's favor is the offensive play of Bibby. Price isn't on Bibby's level, but he isn't going to be asked to do anything other than stay on his man.

The lineup with Reef-Bonzi would just eat the interior of your proposed lineup up like it was having seconds of Thanksgiving dinner. Miller's weaker than a 12 year old and would get pushed around by Skinner and Reef. Thomas would get shot over. Garcia nor Martin match up well against Wells.

Miller is such a defensive weakness that what he brings to the offensive end would be nullified. I'd put Shareef on him and see how he likes trying to shoot over people.

I'd allow Kenny Thomas to destroy us from 15 feet.

I'd let Bibby get a lot of shots. Heck - I'd consider it a win if I can turn him into a volume shooter.

The problem on your end, with that lineup, is that it is actually worse defensively than anything fielded yet. It's also not winning any matchups on the floor when it IS out there.

 

[BMiller52]

The only matchup that is in that lineup's favor is the offensive play of Bibby. Price isn't on Bibby's level, but he isn't going to be asked to do anything other than stay on his man.

The lineup with Reef-Bonzi would just eat the interior of your proposed lineup up like it was having seconds of Thanksgiving dinner. Miller's weaker than a 12 year old and would get pushed around by Skinner and Reef. Thomas would get shot over. Garcia nor Martin match up well against Wells.

Miller is such a defensive weakness that what he brings to the offensive end would be nullified. I'd put Shareef on him and see how he likes trying to shoot over people.

I'd allow Kenny Thomas to destroy us from 15 feet.

I'd let Bibby get a lot of shots. Heck - I'd consider it a win if I can turn him into a volume shooter.

The problem on your end, with that lineup, is that it is actually worse defensively than anything fielded yet. It's also not winning any matchups on the floor when it IS out there.

It blew out the clippers dude, and that team you posted isn't as good as the clippers. Not even the injury plagued clippers. Brad could shoot over shareef easily, and if you give kenny that 15-19 foot shot you're going to get burned, same if you let bibby have a lot of shots. I don't think peja could stay in front of garcia or martin either. Not to mention KT is a better rebounder than shareef.

 

[playmaker0017]

It blew out the clippers dude, and that team you posted isn't as good as the clippers.

Actually, the LINE UP lost against the Clippers.

But, the TEAM won.

Also, it takes more than one win to satisfy whether it's good. Remember the Hawks beat the Spurs....

Brad could shoot over shareef easily, and if you give kenny that 15-19 foot shot you're going to get burned, same if you let bibby have a lot of shots.

Brad can't shoot over anyone. He's very sub-par when someone is within a step of him.

I'll let Bibby and Kenny take shots. If I force the Kings into 17 foot shots ... I'm happy.

I don't think peja could stay in front of garcia or martin either. Not to mention KT is a better rebounder than shareef.

KT is NOT a better rebounder than Shareef. They are both about the same - and even if Kenny is better, it's marginal.

Peja might not be able to stay in front of them, but that's what you have Skinner for.

 

[Stojakovic]

Brad could shoot over shareef easily

LOL

Miller's shooting with anybody even close to him is about as prolific as Shaq's.

 

[vj9999]

This is the funniest thread so far this year

We are arguing over our own players

 

[BMiller52]

Yeah even if brad can't really shoot over reef it doesn't really matter. KT is a much better rebounder than Shareef and brad=skinner(well nearly when it comes to rebounding). Bibby>Price so much it's not even funny. Peja can't keep Garcia and Martin in front of him, and before you say skinner would block their shot they could just shoot the open midrange jumper. Peja won't be doing anything as long as the Bibby/Miller team keeps Martin or Garcia on him and the only real matchup advantage that team has is Bonzi>Garcia/Martin. It'd be kinda close but the starting lineup we have now would win. I mean I guess that's why we're a terrible 2-0 with this group and a wonderful 10-17 with the other.