ShastaKingsFan
Hall of Famer
He's right and you don't like it. Simply put, it's not politically correct enough for you
Kayte C needs to be replaced
- Thread starter Jdbraver137
- Start date
He's right and you don't like it. Simply put, it's not politically correct enough for you
The thing is the networks demand it. I am sure many women would prefer to dress more conservatively but would lose opportunities if they don't. I believe @Mr. S£im Citrus has a favorite basketball announcer who isn't conventionally hot and so she is buried on the C or D team. Even Doris Burke was clearly forced by ESPN to put more effort into conforming to conventional beauty standards a number of years back from her appearance when she first started getting big national games.
I completely disagree with @KingsFanSince85's take on this as well (was just trying to say so in a more playful way) but I wouldn't say that makes it wrong. [You're calling @KainLear's take wrong here, but same difference]. Disagreement isn't always about broad cultural statements. Sometimes it's just about our own personal biases, and that's fine. I don't respect anyone more because they're wearing a suit and tie. Often it's the opposite, actually. I'm immediately suspicious of someone who looks like they're presenting themselves as respectable. I think that's because it signals conformity to me -- which is my least favorite flavor of tea.
Padrino
All-Star
Some real ass-showing going on in here. Do some of you even know any women? Like, any at all? And if you do, do you ever ask them questions? Are you ever curious about their perspective on these matters? Ask any woman what it's actually like to try and dress "professionally" in a world in which a "suit and tie" is what's considered "professional." It's a world in which men dictate the standard of "professionalism" despite the fact that the standard of "professionalism" doesn't conform particularly well to the female body, especially if you're a woman of Kayte's physical stature. Toss a heaping pile of "beauty standards"--that men are not asked to conform to, by the way--into the mix, and you've got yourself a recipe for a complex and deeply uncomfortable issue for women. But no, let's ignore what centuries' worth of study have told us about being a woman "in a man's world". Surely Kayte must be "asking for it" instead. 
I hardly know where to begin.
First, I don’t have a stance on whether a network encourages female reporters to dress a certain way to “show off their figures.” My issue from the start was that some of you felt the need to bring up her outfits at all, complete with air-quoted remarks about it being “likeable.” Then you added,
I will refrain from explaining what that insinuates.
On top of that, there was a detailed justification for why male commentators wear business attire, described neatly as “jacket and tie”, while female commentators’ attire was generalized as “Friday night clubbing outfits.”
But you know what? The problem is simply that it’s “not politically correct enough” for me.
You can have any preferences and opinions about anyone, male or female, so I respect that. And for the sake of keeping this a sports-only forum, you can have this one.
(EDIT: My advice? Just stick to calling her commentary annoying and her unnecessarily long stories tangent.)
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Mod note: Just a quick reminder that we do have a forum rule which says to be respectful. I think this can be a productive discussion to have as Kayte has been a frequent topic in game threads for awhile now and this is a better place for it. I just wanted to remind everyone to do their best to discuss this without making it personal.
Sounds like a good idea to me! I'm embarrassed to admit though that I have no idea how to create a Livestream and I'm supposed to be part of one of the "tech savvy" generations. Does anyone here have a kid / grandkid who can set this up for us?
Section 101
All-Star
Katie was just talking about her outfits last week on the morning show. About how she cant wear the same outfit more than once during the season. It's not men who notice that, but women. Women put more pressure on the outfits than men. Men dont care if she wears the same outfit every game.
TaxMan
Starter
Yikes... I'm not touching or cosigning some of the sentiment posted in this thread, but I will agree that I really don't like Katie's color commentary. That said, I find probably 75% of local broadcast color commentary to be unbearable. Katie's main problem is just the basics of knowing when to stop talking based on gameplay.
See? It's this easy.
Call people out on their BS, or whatever you perceived to be. Person is hired for a job and said person is subjected to criticism on the performance of said job. I don't agree with you but I fully respect your concern of her as a commentator.
Just because someone might be wrong for a job, that doesn't mean the whole of said someone is subjected to criticism.
Folsomkingsfan
Starter
Kayte worked well as a sideline reporter because it was short, direct questions. She simply doesn't have enough to say to fill an entire broadcast which is why she fills a bunch of the time saying completely basic, pointless things like "The Kings can win this game if they can hit their 3's" and "a key to playing good defense here is for the Kings to keep their hands up" and then arguing every single call no matter how obviously guilty the Kings are.
QWERTYLICIOUS
Starter
To be fair to Kayte, a handful of the national broadcasters also do the same during nationally televised games.
This is more common than you, or anyone else for that matter, would like to believe.
Padrino
All-Star
So common. In fact, the beloved Jerry Reynolds made inane folksiness his entire brand as a color commentator. He'd fill time with the most empty platitudes and aphorisms imaginable. The truth is, there's just not that much to say in an era of high definition sports broadcasting, where the clarity of the broadcast has rendered it considerably less necessary for both the play-by-play individual and the color commentator to yammer on as often as they do. We've simply institutionalized these roles to the degree that the game feels less complete without them, even if their value as sources of information on the live action that's unfolding on-screen is questionable, at best.
ShastaKingsFan
Hall of Famer
We know you probably don't like it, but the fact is that people are evaluated and judged on their appearance in professional settings. Someone can definitely be bad at their job and also not look the part
As I mentioned, in the interest of keeping the forum clean, I’m stepping away from this topic.
That said, I’ll stop responding now so you can rest easy and take solace with that “fact.”
Jerry is so charming that he could spend 15 minutes complaining about his bad back at the neighborhood BBQ and still not make you want to peel yourself away from him.
I think I'd say it's less that we need their information and more that we need them to make the game seem more exciting. Guys like Gus Johnson do a good job of this and he wouldn't be able to do his job as well if he had Kayte yammering on about something for 6 straight possessions. You want the person who has a distinctive voice and the ability to make the game seem exciting to do most of the talking. Even if all they're doing is calling out what you're seeing with your own eyes. It's more engaging than a color commentator, who sounds like a regular person, telling stories and comparing themselves to the game constantly.
My favorite play by play guy of all time is the somewhat unknown Ken Squire from Nascar. He gave you bits and pieces of information about the drivers to help you get to know them during the broadcast. He made you believe that entire regions of the country were fixated on the television and rooting for certain drivers. Even when it was the last lap and the race seemed mostly in hand, he would make you think that the guy in 2nd was scratching, fighting and clawing his way up, using every last ounce of energy he had to attempt to make the pass and win. 95% of the time, nothing happened on the last lap but he sure did a good job of making you believe that something special was imminent.
macadocious
Starter
I like hearing about Nick Castellanos home runs.
Padrino
All-Star
Well, this is clearly one of those "different strokes" kind of situations. I found Jerry Reynolds neither charming nor engaging as a color personality. His particular brand of folksiness is just... not for me. I would be seeking out different personality types at the neighborhood BBQ, and I was among the [perhaps very few] Kings fans who were not sad to see Grant and Jerry depart the organization.
As a play-by-play guy, Mark Jones is much more my speed. He keeps me "on the floor", so to speak, rooted to the action of the game and dialed into the moment-to-moment excitement. I'm largely indifferent to Kayte in her current color role, and whatever issues I have with her are issues I have with most color commentators covering the NBA. As has been suggested by others, Kings fans would do well to tune in to other local broadcasts whenever possible to understand the actual lay of the land across the league and how bad it can get. At the very least, Kings fans should already be aware of the crew in Golden State, and how universally panned their work is across the NBA.
There are some gems, of course, especially in the play-by-play roles. But color commentators (or "analysts", as I suppose they're often called) are pretty dire across the league. Love the work Clyde Frazier's been doing in New York for years, but he's getting up there in age. Brooklyn's crew is pretty great, too. I like Sarah Kustok's work a lot. Also a fan of ex-King Jim Jackson on the Clippers' broadcast. I think he's top-tier. I'll give a shout out to Antonio Daniels in New Orleans, too, whose energy I've enjoyed when watching their broadcast. Considering the upper-end and lower-end of the analyst spectrum, Kayte's probably somewhere in the middle-of-the-pack amongst analysts, maybe even upper-middle, which is about where I would have ranked Jerry, as well, even with my lack of personal appreciation for his schtick.
That said, I agree with your general premise here that a suitable goal for play-by-play and color commentary is to make the game seem more exciting. While I was no fan of Grant Napear, I will readily admit that his patented "If you don't like that, you don't like NBA basketball!" was among the very best catchphrases in the NBA, particularly when the Kings were a winning squad. While I really disliked him on the call outside of that, it was absolute euphoria when the Kings were winning and that line would get dropped as Arco Arena exploded for the Best Show on Court.
Yeah I get it. No one person is liked by everyone. I'd say that Jerry is one of the most beloved people that has ever been involved with the Kings but that certainly doesn't mean that everyone is a fan of his.
I like Mark Jones as well but I think he's too nice of a person to tell Kayte to cut her thousand word spiels down to 20 words. Even if people don't like Jones for his incessant food catchphrases and thesaurus like vocabulary, most of us can all agree that more Mark and less Kayte is a good thing for the broadcast.
It's all a moot point anyway. This franchise will never replace her.
This is an interesting point. If a fanbase is overwhelmingly opposed to a particular member of the broadcast team (I don't know that this is true -- we are a subset of the overall fanbase, but let's suppose it could be true) -- does the franchise have an obligation to listen to the fans? Is there a danger that people will stop watching games entirely just because they don't like the commentator? Should a commentator listen to the fans and take constructive criticism from them or is their job just to be themselves?
What I have observed about the pushback on Kayte since she took over that color commentator role full-time is that there is a perception out there among some of the fans that Kayte is not receptive to criticism, is not improving at her job, and perhaps even knows that she is demographically insulated regardless to the point of feeling self-righteous about it. I don't really understand how or why this perception has come about...
Some of the former NBA players who have moved into broadcasting full-time have similar tendencies to ramble and ignore the actual game (Reggie Miller immediately comes to mind) but they don't seem to attract the same level of ire. Is that because we don't listen to them nearly as often? Is it because we give them a pass for having "earned" their roles by being Hall of Famers? Is it that there is a cultural bias where some are immediately suspicious of people who are (I would say unfairly) labeled as diversity hires?
This is often the type of question which leads to an "agree to disagree" stalemate because it comes across as accusatory. I'm not trying to accuse anyone of anything, but I do think it is fair to say that cultural biases by and large operate at a subconscious level. It takes work to interrogate our own biases and in our current cultural moment the validity of that type of work has itself become an ideological lightning rod. Implicit in this statement -- "This franchise will never replace her" -- is an assumption that being good at the job is not the most important qualification. Is that assumption justified or is it evidence of subconscious bias? I can't answer that for anyone else but I can invite you to watch a few games with the intention of interrogating this belief to see if that changes your mind in any way.
A lot of "I hate Kayte" posters also seem super receptive to Morgan Ragan replacing her (which they may or may not turn on if that ever happened) so I am not sure if it actually really does just come down to really, really disliking her.
Padrino
All-Star
Well, this presupposes that there's any sort of meritocracy to staffing color commentators in the first place. Play-by-play announcers are media-trained and typically possess a considerable amount of broadcasting experience by the time they end up working for an NBA franchise or a major network. But color commentary is a much more nebulous role, and though there are some exceptions, staffing a sports broadcast is pretty much an insider's game. Franchises across the league typically like to hire former professional players to do the job, whether they perform well on the call or not. What their reasons are for preferencing one insider over another is anyone's guess, but given the generally mediocre-to-poor quality of most local broadcasts, it probably doesn't have much to do with serving the fan's preferences.
Women do face greater undeserved scrutiny in these kinds of roles than men do, but Kayte Christensen is a former collegiate and professional basketball player with enough bonafides to make her a worthy hire if what you value is a former pro's perspective. She's not particularly effective on the call, but again, most of the league's color commentators are rambling types who don't really know what to do with the time they're meant to fill despite their knowledge of the game. And if Kayte is supposed to represent an example of cronyism or unfair patronage to a certain kind of Kings fan, well, once again we could level that kind of accusation at most of the color commentators across the league's local broadcasts. So that's the point at which I would ask Kings fans to check their biases. Watch and listen to more of the league, I say. You don't know what you don't know.
Section 101
All-Star
It's not even about her knowledge, she just talks too much period! I've said it before, when she starts doing the play by play she needs to shut up and let the play by play person do THEIR JOB! She doesn't need to talk after every basket.
It was refreshing during the Prime game when neither one was talking. Kayte can't let there be any dead air time.
ShastaKingsFan
Hall of Famer
Do we assume that she was hired because she was the best talent available for the job? I doubt it
Morgan is a good example of someone who is a better on air talent, despite not having played professionally. In most cases, I prefer former players as coaches
I was under the impression that she got the color commentary role because she had already established herself in the sideline reporter role. When Doug wanted to coach instead, he vacated that color commentator spot and she was the next most logical person in line to take over since she was already On-Air talent, already part of this broadcast team, and seemed (at the time) to be well-liked by the fanbase and decision makers in the organization.
I don't think the bar has been set especially high for color commentary at the team level. Jerry Reynolds was generally well-liked here but we also were just used to him. A lot of the former players hired to do this job league-wide are objectively terrible at it but they are former fan favorites and we like seeing them on screen so we put up with them. At its best this job is a team effort -- a Laurel and Hardy show, if you will. Over time the duos that stick around sharpen their timing and play off each other in an entertaining way. But it takes years and years to develop that kind of timing and make it feel effortless.
We are in the process of transitioning out of an era of broadcasting professionals into an era where amateurs sink or swim in these types of jobs by developing a relationship with their viewers. Depending where a person is in the generational milieu, this may be various degrees of refreshing or insufferable. What to some reads as unprofessional may read as authentic to others. And conversely, what some see as professionalism others see as overly cultivated and phony. I don't think we're all likely to agree on who is the best available talent if we have differing standards for what "talent" actually means in the broadcasting profession...
Is it relatability, a conversational tone, and a willingness to fail in an endearingly human way? Is it elevated enunciation, a business-like demeanor, a backlog of go-to catch phrases and the skill to know how and when to deploy them? Grant and Jerry worked as well as they did together because between them they gave us both sides of the coin. But it was also recognizably schtick in a way that most of the younger generation now just does not tolerate. I do think putting Kayte in that job was a strategic move by this organization to court a sensibility they thought would appeal more to younger viewers. So on some level, the very qualities that make her "awful" to listen to for some viewers are the qualities that got her the job.
I'll just say that I always enjoyed her work for the Kings. Thinking about that got me looking through some old photos...
We went to some House Party Live events back around 2009 when she and Koz were working together and I always enjoyed what she brought to the table. I found a couple of old photos from one of those events (January 3, 2009) when Kingsfans.com was invited, and kennadog, 6th, Sactown Mike, myself, and others got to hang out behind the scenes and watch the fun. It was Koz's birthday and he even took a picture with my son and his friend after the kids had a free throw shooting contest (knockout). My wife's friend's son won.
Some will say this has no bearing on her current work. I'll just say she's been doing this kind of stuff for over 15 years and I think the criticisms are significantly overblown when others I hear are even worse.
We went to some House Party Live events back around 2009 when she and Koz were working together and I always enjoyed what she brought to the table. I found a couple of old photos from one of those events (January 3, 2009) when Kingsfans.com was invited, and kennadog, 6th, Sactown Mike, myself, and others got to hang out behind the scenes and watch the fun. It was Koz's birthday and he even took a picture with my son and his friend after the kids had a free throw shooting contest (knockout). My wife's friend's son won.
Some will say this has no bearing on her current work. I'll just say she's been doing this kind of stuff for over 15 years and I think the criticisms are significantly overblown when others I hear are even worse.
I believe I see a Ron Artest and a Kevin Martin jersey? Man.... Where does the time go?
That little kid on the left is now 6' 2" and turned 23 yesterday.
He turned 23, the jersey says "23"...you gotta make him try it on again!That little kid on the left is now 6' 2" and turned 23 yesterday.
ShastaKingsFan
Hall of Famer
I know the younger crowd gives Morgan a high grade.....and most of the older crowd as well. Would be surprised if Kayte were close in that regard.
So whatever their differences are, should give some insight into what is preferred