K-Mart / Cisco Analysis

OvechKiN

OvechKiN

G-League
I just wanted to discuss about these two guys, since I rarely get to see them play here in Canada.

K-Mart - Has offensive potential and is fast. But can he drive? Can he create his own shot? Is he too skinny? How is his defense?

Cisco - Good Shooter? Defense? Create his own shot?

Can we afford to lose Bonzi's Defense/Rebounding/Hustle for these two guys? Or should it be a key signing for the kings?
 
If there's something really good to get for Bonzi, do it, but if not, keep the guy. And I'd ultimately like to see him stay, because of the Ron/Bonzi combo, and the possibility of being in the playoffs.
 
Whoa, that's a pretty large order. You might want to go back to November, 2005 in the threads and start looking for stuff about both these talented young men.

They're growing into their roles in the NBA, IMHO, and I think we can look forward to a lot more excitement from the Young Guns in the days and weeks to come.

My personal opinion is that we can consider the possibility of life without Bonzi a lot easier now than we could before Kevin stepped his game up to a new level. Cisco is a rookie. He's improving but he's nowhere near starter caliber quite yet.

I think Martin is competent enough to seriously consider as our starting SG, should we lose Bonzi. I'm sure Petrie will not let us see a repeat of what happened with Cuttino last season.

EDIT: Martin's increasing production from beyond the arc makes him even more valuable, as he is already drawing double teams.
 
I'll feel more comfortable when I see Martin perform like this away from Arco a few times. Not knocking him. I love what I've been seeing from him lately.
 
AleksandarN said:
I can not believe Martin is only 20. This kid has a bright future in this game.
Click to expand...

I like Martin a lot too, but he just turned 23.

And Garcia is 24. They are both young in NBA years, but are older than average for a 2nd year and rookie respectively.
 
OvechKiN said:
I just wanted to discuss about these two guys, since I rarely get to see them play here in Canada.

K-Mart - Has offensive potential and is fast. But can he drive? Can he create his own shot? Is he too skinny? How is his defense?

Cisco - Good Shooter? Defense? Create his own shot?

Can we afford to lose Bonzi's Defense/Rebounding/Hustle for these two guys? Or should it be a key signing for the kings?
Click to expand...

Kevin:

Can he drive? Yes. I would say that I thought that would be the strongest part of his game, but his shooting is coming along nice. Canhe create his own shot? To a certain extent yes. He has been doing a one handed floater in the lane, a la Josh Howard, and it is really really effective with his great hangtime. He does need to bulk up, but I don't think he has a frame to carry too much size. A lot like a Doug Christie but even more slender. Kevin's man defense is very good actually. He can quite often draw the charge thanks to his athletic ability and he is getting smarter at drawing the opponent into a charge.

Cisco:

Apparently he is a great shooter in practice and slowly looks to be bringing it onto the court too. Takes too many 3's. His defense is pretty good, one of the nagatives I remember hearing about this guy in the draft was his lack of athletic ability to play the point and defend it as well, but I would say those reports were totally wrong! Better passer than shooter I would think. The comparisons to Doug Christie I think are very accurate. Except he is a better shooter than Doug.

I don't know about losing Bonzi for these guys, but I would seriously think that if something great came along for Bonzi Petre at least has the option of looking at it.
 
As far as the question about Martin's defense goes, his defense is good. He's fast, can keep in front of his man, and he's tenacious. Having Ron Artest giving him pointers ain't gonna hurt his game at all...

EDIT: And he DOESN'T need to bulk up. His whole family is slender. A big part of his quickness is because of his wiry build. Skinny guys can make it in the NBA. Look at Tayshaun Prince and Rip Hamilton, just to name two.
 
OvechKiN said:
How is Kevin Martins Defense?
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I see this from K-Mart defensive wise. Decent on the ball defender, he's got very quick feet but has a tough time with guys that like to barrel down the lane. Very good off the ball defender, he can stick with his man through screens and through cuts. Likes to cut in the passing lanes sometimes, and it sometimes helps, sometimes hurts. Overall I'd give him a little above average as far as defending is concerned.

Cisco is getting there. I have seen more from Cisco that I saw from K-Mart last year. Overall he's very very very quick for a guy his size, and if he's confident he can shoot the lights out. Pretty good defender, pretty much like K-Mart to a T... Just needs to keep building confidence. Lovin both the draft picks.
 
SacTownKid said:
I don't know about losing Bonzi for these guys, but I would seriously think that if something great came along for Bonzi Petre at least has the option of looking at it.
Click to expand...

I agree.
 
I think they should keep Bonzi if the Maloofs can afford him. He is an excellent one-two punch with Kevin at the two-guard. I really enjoy seeing Bonzi, Ron, Corliss, Kenny, and Brian alternating in the paint. They are like the heavy cavalry. No one in their right mind could call the Kings soft anymore. Bonzi is part of that brutal bunch. Kevin, Bibby, and Cisco are like light cavalry. The Kings have never had an inside presence like this since I have been a fan.

Tonight it was absolutely beautiful. Ron Artest playing in pain with a hip-pointer. Brad Miller playing in pain with a broken thumb. Abdur Rahim playing in pain with a broken jaw.

Abdur-Rahim needs to change his name. Something like Duncan, Garnett, or O'Neal. :rolleyes:
 
Kevin is a pretty good man defender and has shown continued improvement. I always figured opposing coaches would look to post him up, given his slender frame, but it really hasn't happened all that often. I'd like to see what practices are like if he has to guard Bonzi. :eek:

Kevin's biggest weakness defensively is team D, making proper rotations and being in the right place/making good decisions when he's defending on the weakside.

I don't think Garcia is very similar to Kevin defensively. Cisco is not a good man defender, as he lacks lateral quickness. He is often beaten off the dribble. On the other hand, he is a pretty good team and help defender. He compensates for his lack of footspeed with good anticipation and good use of his length. As with most guys who block shots (especially wings) his blocks almost never come against his man. He gets his swats coming from the weakside.
 
quick dog said:
Kevin, Bibby, and Cisco are like light cavalry.
Click to expand...

nice military-based analytical point;) oh, and definetely agree with you on keeping Bonzi...as far as the 5 you had alternating in the paint, well, it should be 3, because Rick hardly plays Brian and Corliss. I think Cisco and Martin can fit with this team even with the log jam at the 2/3 position. I see Garcia really helping out running the point backing up Bibby, and spot fills at the SG/SF position. Martin is the same...without playing the point, of course. It somehow can work out, believe it or not. Rick likes to operate with an 8 man rotation...but I see that perhaps changing with the times, to a 9 man rotation, which makes this predicament work itself out. But hey, I'm probably wrong, and I DEFINETELY dont know what's going through Adelman's head, as far as HIS rotation goes. lol
 
I'd like to keep Bonzi. If you keep Bonzi then you have the makings of a non-pathetic bench. If you let Bonzi go and have KMart start, then you weaken an already questionable bench.

Also, if this is a new physical sort of the Kings then Bonzi fits that mold very well.
 
swisshh said:
I'd like to keep Bonzi. If you keep Bonzi then you have the makings of a non-pathetic bench. If you let Bonzi go and have KMart start, then you weaken an already questionable bench.

Also, if this is a new physical sort of the Kings then Bonzi fits that mold very well.
Click to expand...

Well that is alot of peoples reasoning for trading him. At the end of the season there's a possibility of losing him for nothing.
 
Last edited:
swisshh said:
I'd like to keep Bonzi. If you keep Bonzi then you have the makings of a non-pathetic bench. If you let Bonzi go and have KMart start, then you weaken an already questionable bench.

Also, if this is a new physical sort of the Kings then Bonzi fits that mold very well.
Click to expand...
Ding Ding Ding!! We have a winner!;)
 
quick dog said:
I think they should keep Bonzi if the Maloofs can afford him. He is an excellent one-two punch with Kevin at the two-guard. I really enjoy seeing Bonzi, Ron, Corliss, Kenny, and Brian alternating in the paint. They are like the heavy cavalry. No one in their right mind could call the Kings soft anymore. Bonzi is part of that brutal bunch. Kevin, Bibby, and Cisco are like light cavalry. The Kings have never had an inside presence like this since I have been a fan.

Tonight it was absolutely beautiful. Ron Artest playing in pain with a hip-pointer. Brad Miller playing in pain with a broken thumb. Abdur Rahim playing in pain with a broken jaw.

Abdur-Rahim needs to change his name. Something like Duncan, Garnett, or O'Neal. :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

The Maloof's can afford Bonzi. Yeah we do have some big burly guys on our team. I think other teams will think twice about charging in on us with Ron, Bonzi, Corliss, and Brian in there. Kenny too is pretty aggressive, he just needs to settle down a bit and watch those quick impulsive turnover giveaways. I like Kenny though with Ron. The team in general has been playing better D since Ron arrived. I was proud of Brad today, not just his 2 3's at the end. He played some pretty good D there, I hope this will continue in the future from him.
 
I think you have to look at a couple of things. First and foremost being, are we a complete team, able to contend? The answer to this question, alas, is still no. A big, burly team of 6'7" and 6'9" guys and Brad isn't going to cut it, although they could make the play-offs if they had played together all year.
Over the summer, some re-tooling will have to be done, and you really have to look at who you might be able to give up to fill the hole(s) we still have. I don't see anyone biting on the Jamal Sampson for Garnett deal, even if the salaries matched up.
 
Kingsgurl said:
I don't see anyone biting on the Jamal Sampson for Garnett deal, even if the salaries matched up.
Click to expand...

You're right. Minnesota would probably have to kick in a draft pick to get us to even think seriously.
 
If they can't trade away KT for an expiring contract, then the Maloofs probably don't want to pay that much luxury tax by re-signing Bonzi. Also, the Kings are still in need of some size up front. Thus, I can see Petrie pull the trigger trading Bonzi and some other guys for a big man who can really defend the low post.
 
The Maloofs WILL pay the luxury tax if it gets the Kings back to elite status. They've already made the BIG gamble by bringing Artest to the Kings. They're not going to all of a sudden jeopardize their investment by going cheaper.
 
Kingsgurl said:
I think you have to look at a couple of things. First and foremost being, are we a complete team, able to contend? The answer to this question, alas, is still no. A big, burly team of 6'7" and 6'9" guys and Brad isn't going to cut it, although they could make the play-offs if they had played together all year.
Over the summer, some re-tooling will have to be done, and you really have to look at who you might be able to give up to fill the hole(s) we still have. I don't see anyone biting on the Jamal Sampson for Garnett deal, even if the salaries matched up.
Click to expand...

The problem with waiting until the summer to re-tool is that what is possibly your best trading asset (Wells) becomes virtually worthless. Right now, Bonzi is a talented SG in his prime with an ending contract. He can bring toughness and rebounding to a team who would assume his Bird rights in a trade.

But when summer comes along, the Kings have three opitons: Re-sign Bonzi, let him walk for nothing, or get him to agree to a sign-and-trade where you stand little chance of getting back a useful piece in return.

I'm not saying the Kings should trade Bonzi. I really like the 1-2 punch of he and Martin at the off-guard position. But it is definitely something to think about.

As much as I like Brad Miller, he won't be the starting center on a team with serious championship hopes unless he plays alongside an athletic big who can mask his huge weaknesses on defense.

I think that needs to be Geoff's main focus. Find a stud defender/rebounder at the PF spot (or C spot, sliding Brad to the 4) or field offers for Miller.
 
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