Jayson Tatum

#31
At 5, we are going to get a good to great player, just by pure numbers.

One of Fox, Jackson or Tatum will be there for us at 5, and I would not hesitate to pick whoever is left on the board at 5.

Fox would be my preference, followed by Tatum and then Jackson. But I think all 3 of them will be excellent players in the NBA.
 
#32
I think the number one thing is that he has a tendency to ISO a bit too much. He needs to cut down on that, but I think better D in the NBA will probably force that by itself. I like his BBIQ, again with exception of the ISOs. Poise is really good.
He hardly uses his left hand in any of his highlights, and he's overpowering guys with his good athleticism in College clips that will be matched more in the NBA. He looks like an ok dribbler but sub-par passer. As others mentioned, he's not extremely quick for his size.

Strengths - certainly his shooting - outstanding shot on the move, which is difficult. Good fall-away which will really help him in the NBA Has good range on his shot too. Had some good weakside blocks which shows he's paying attention defense. IMO he'd be fine at the 10 pick if there. He could be something close to Kenyon Martin.
 
#33
I like them both. Jackson is a freak athlete, and he plays with a passion and an edge that you love to see. It can be argued that he's the best defensive player in the draft. There are times when you think there's more than one of him on the court. He seems to be everywhere, and that's at both ends of the court. At the same time, while he's good at a lot of things, he's not great an any one individual thing, other than defense. I have to admit that I'm nit picking here and going more on my gut reaction to him while ignoring the results. Which is not always a good thing to do.

Jackson, like Fox, plays at almost a frantic pace, but appears more out of control at times than Fox. And while Jackson shot around 37% from the three, he only shot around 55 % from the free throw line, which is a bit concerning. So I wish I had a little more to go on in that area. Make no mistake, if Jackson can polish off his skills, your looking at a potential superstar. But right now, the parts are greater than the sum. Could have said the same thing about Lebron when he came into the league.

Speaking of Lebron, if you break him down statistically, he isn't great at any one thing, except maybe passing the ball for a player his size. He's an average free throw shooter. Average 3 pt shooter, average to a little above average rebounder. Doesn't block shots, and is average at stealing the ball. His overall shooting percentage is very good at around 54%. It's what's between Lebrons ears that makes him great. Don't get me wrong, he's a very good athlete as well, or at least used to be. He's lost a little at 32 years of age. I suspect that if you could put Lebron's brain in Josh Jackson's body, you'd have another superstar.

But I digress. Point is, Jackson may be the next superstar. Or not! I like Tatum because he appears more polished overall, and always seems under control. I also like that he seemed to get better as the season wore on. He's also a good defender, and does it more with technique than raw athleticism, and that's not to say that Tatum isn't a good athlete. He's just not the athlete that Jackson is. I doubt you can go wrong with either player, and I won't predict who will be the better player. I honestly don't know.

One last thing I'll say about Jackson, and don't make more of it than it is. But there are times when Jackson can be a bit of a head case. He has a temper that occasionally pops up. I don't think it's a major issue, but it is there. Remember, this is a player that only knows how to win, and doesn't accept losing well. He plays with that edge, and sometimes a temper comes with that.
Sorry, but on your Lebron remark - he's probably still the best power athlete in the NBA at 32 not merely "very good" - he still makes chase-down blocks that very few if any other pros could make....I have little doubt James could easily have been playing/starting All-Pro tight-end in the NFL with the right training/coaching. He is a freight-train of upper body. I would not want to risk broken ribs taking a charge from him.
 
#35
I don't like watching iso ball either, but I don't think that's all there is to Tatum's game. He has that ability for sure, but he's also a good passer and defender and does both willingly. If we did in fact draft him I'd have confidence in his ability to fit well in a team concept but have that extra ability to go get a bucket when you really need one.
Sorry I didn't see the passing (in the highlights at least). Looked like a decent defender though.
 
#36
He reminds me of Allan Houston. Definitely wouldn't mind Divac picking him.
Not from what I saw.....Houston was a shooting guard....a silky dribbler and long ball shooter.....Tatum reminds me more of Kenyon Martin attacking the rim feverishly although Tatum has a much better outside and long shot than Martin ever had and Martin was a 4.
 
#37
Sorry I didn't see the passing (in the highlights at least). Looked like a decent defender though.
I wouldn't describe his passing as highlight reel worthy, but when I watched him (at least 4 games this year) he passed the ball well. I don't think it's a weakness. Clearly we see him very differently, and that's ok with me.
 
#38
Let me tell you this about Tatum.... If we draft him I think he becomes our most talented player. Think about it.... the two guys on our roster with potential to be stars are Buddy and Skal. For sake of argument let's refer to them as our most talented guys. Look what Buddy and Skal did in freshman seasons relative to Tatum:
  • Buddy (8 PPG 39% FGs 15 PER)
  • Skal (6 PPG 3 RPG 18 PER)
  • Tatum (17 PPG 7 RPG 2 APG 21 PER)
Where Tatum comes into consideration is if the first 4 players of the draft are in any order:
  • Fultz
  • Ball
  • Fox
  • Jackson
It is reasonable conclusion at this point Fox is who the Kings want. If Fox is not there at #5, currently around 50% odds, coin flip basically, Kings are left with a decision between Tatum and Isaac. No way is Dennis Smith Jr a consideration here. Too damaged, too much defensive liability. Between now and draft day one of the most prominent questions for fans and front office....Who do you want as your new SF assuming Fox goes Top 4:

Tatum or Isaac?

Tatum has polish, length, footwork and touch. Isaac has even better length, fast twitch fibers and "bounciness" that Tatum sort of lacks. What I like about both guys is they can create space. Tatum is better but Isaac uses a jab step to get his man to back off. As an aside, you know this is something about Malachi. Malachi projects as 10 PPG next season because he has an effective jab step to get free on his shot or set up the drive.

If you exclusively look at needs of our team, the pick has to be TATUM. The Kings need to target and define their prominent scorers. Buddy and Skal project as 16-20 PPG scorers. Tatum would form a trio of guys who can give you 20 PPG on any night. Tatum could be a 25 PPG scorer in our league. If you take Isaac, there could be a scoring void on the team as Skal and Buddy develop and if Isaac develops as a utility specialist and combo forward.

One the other hand with Isaac you have a versatile defender and a guy who can switch a lot and provide imposing weak side help. Thats an awesome skill to have to go with Willie, Skal and Temple! These are the variables that are front office has to be debating. Isaac has simultaneously more risk AND upside. Tatum has less risk AND less defensive potential.

One reason to take Isaac is hope Ntlinka is around at #10. Then you have makings of a great defensive team with length at every position (when you play Temple at SG)! You can go Tatum then Frank and cover bases offensively and defensively. I am not going to declare definitively the Kings should Tatum over Isaac or vice versa. I don't have the data to make that assertion. I do think Fox goes over both if available. And I trust the front office to do their due diligence and confidently conclude one player over the other.

If I had to put on my prediction hat, subject to change over the next 4 weeks, I think we would take Tatum over Isaac if Fox is off the board. I think the differential in potential on offense favoring Tatum is greater that the differential in potential on defense favoring Isaac. That may be confusing to some but it makes sense to me. :cool:
 
#39
Not from what I saw.....Houston was a shooting guard....a silky dribbler and long ball shooter.....Tatum reminds me more of Kenyon Martin attacking the rim feverishly although Tatum has a much better outside and long shot than Martin ever had and Martin was a 4.
I don't see the similarity. Martin was never an ISO player and could never create his own shot. Tatum's calling card is being able to create his own shot using a combination of footwork and handles. He's got a arsenal of offensive weapons Martin never had.
 
#40
I don't see the similarity. Martin was never an ISO player and could never create his own shot. Tatum's calling card is being able to create his own shot using a combination of footwork and handles. He's got a arsenal of offensive weapons Martin never had.
They both attack the rim relentlessly - that was my observation - that's what I saw with Tatum. Martin when younger got the ball in the post sometimes. and was probably a better athlete too. And yes Martin was not ball-handler at all. I'm not sure I'd call it an arsenal, but I did see excellent shooting. I don't think he's as complete a player as Jackson. Tatum looks to be a great shooter. My main criticism is I hardly saw Tatum use his left hand - that's a handicap on offense. Maybe I'm wrong and he turns into a great player....I was wrong about Harrison Barnes awhile ago. I would give it a chance if the Kings drafted him.....just want quite a few players before him.
 
#41
They both attack the rim relentlessly - that was my observation - that's what I saw with Tatum. Martin when younger got the ball in the post sometimes. and was probably a better athlete too. And yes Martin was not ball-handler at all. I'm not sure I'd call it an arsenal, but I did see excellent shooting. I don't think he's as complete a player as Jackson. Tatum looks to be a great shooter. My main criticism is I hardly saw Tatum use his left hand - that's a handicap on offense. Maybe I'm wrong and he turns into a great player....I was wrong about Harrison Barnes awhile ago. I would give it a chance if the Kings drafted him.....just want quite a few players before him.
Just curious, have we seen Buddy pull up from the right side? I can only recall pulling up from the left.
 

bajaden

Hall of Famer
#43
Sorry, but on your Lebron remark - he's probably still the best power athlete in the NBA at 32 not merely "very good" - he still makes chase-down blocks that very few if any other pros could make....I have little doubt James could easily have been playing/starting All-Pro tight-end in the NFL with the right training/coaching. He is a freight-train of upper body. I would not want to risk broken ribs taking a charge from him.
Somehow, I think your missed my point. I certainly wasn't disparaging Lebron. I think he's the best player in basketball, but I think an important part of what makes Lebron a great player is what's between his ears. I think that's true of any great player regardless of sport. Obviously if your a great player, you were gifted with athletic ability. But what you do with it is determined by your brain. Your desire and commitment. There have been dozens of players that have come into the NBA with great physical abilities, who ended up being just average players. Some have been busts. Few players have Lebron's mentality. By the way, he would have made an outstanding tight-end.
 

bajaden

Hall of Famer
#45
I don't recall....
For Tatum I'm mostly talking about when he attacks the rim and seems to shy away from using his left much.
Don't forget your talking about a 19 year old kid. He's still developing his game. That said, he's probably the most gifted all around scorer in the draft after Fultz. There is no way on god's earth that I would take Smith over Tatum if that's the choice. Tatum is a hard worker who is dedicated to being a great player. He battles on both ends of the court. On the other hand, Smith flat gave up in some games. Smith decided not to put out any effort on defense in some games. I'm sorry, cough, cough, I just can't get past that. I see zero gamble with Tatum. I definitely see some risk with Smith. Hell, why bother moving up to five if your going to draft Smith. We could have gotten him at eight.
 
#46
It is reasonable conclusion at this point Fox is who the Kings want. If Fox is not there at #5, currently around 50% odds, coin flip basically, Kings are left with a decision between Tatum and Isaac. No way is Dennis Smith Jr a consideration here. Too damaged, too much defensive liability.
Baron Davis tore his ACL in college and still went on to have a great career... Why can't Smith Jr? Plus that was like 20 years ago when ACL treatment wasn't as good as it is now..
 
#47
I like Taytum alot! He's got an NBA ready body, and his offensive game looks good. I think he has potential to be a very good 2 way player. I'd rather have Fox, but JT would be my next pick.
 
#48
Baron Davis tore his ACL in college and still went on to have a great career... Why can't Smith Jr? Plus that was like 20 years ago when ACL treatment wasn't as good as it is now.. I want Vlade to make a move to guarantee us Fox, if he can't get him i'd be happy with DSJ at 5 over the other prospects..
Yes Optimus and Baron Davis was the guy I was actually thinking of when I watch Smith Highlights - interesting....I like Smith's dynamics in his highlights.
 
#49
Don't forget your talking about a 19 year old kid. He's still developing his game. That said, he's probably the most gifted all around scorer in the draft after Fultz. There is no way on god's earth that I would take Smith over Tatum if that's the choice. Tatum is a hard worker who is dedicated to being a great player. He battles on both ends of the court. On the other hand, Smith flat gave up in some games. Smith decided not to put out any effort on defense in some games. I'm sorry, cough, cough, I just can't get past that. I see zero gamble with Tatum. I definitely see some risk with Smith. Hell, why bother moving up to five if your going to draft Smith. We could have gotten him at eight.
Glad you feel so certain....I'm going off impressions from highlights. I'd actually prefer to have Fox or Jackson first before Smith or Tatum (from the highlights). Jackson first, then Fox. I really liked Jackson's defense....he toyed with UCD players mostly when I watched him in the tournament. I don't have as much conviction as you do.....I've been wrong before, so anyway.
 
#50
Baron Davis tore his ACL in college and still went on to have a great career... Why can't Smith Jr? Plus that was like 20 years ago when ACL treatment wasn't as good as it is now..
I am not closing the book on him. But I think there will be better options at #5. If he slides to #10, he becomes a possibility there.
 
#51
It's funny. Most drafts I am relatively certain of the guys I want and the guys I don't. This draft? I've been going back and forth over pretty much every guy.

My concern with Tatum is that he HAS to be able to transfer his ISO scoring to the NBA to be a very good or great player. But if he does you have your go-to scorer.

This is going to be a fun draft.
 
#52
It's funny. Most drafts I am relatively certain of the guys I want and the guys I don't. This draft? I've been going back and forth over pretty much every guy.

My concern with Tatum is that he HAS to be able to transfer his ISO scoring to the NBA to be a very good or great player. But if he does you have your go-to scorer.

This is going to be a fun draft.
Me too. Didn't like Tatum much at first but now think he could be the best player out of this draft in the long run. If that's the case then this draft isn't all that great, but you just don't find players with his skill level for a SF very often. I'm hoping, if the Kings draft him, his physical athletic skills will blossom as he gets a little older, like Carmelo for instance.
 
#53
I am not closing the book on him. But I think there will be better options at #5. If he slides to #10, he becomes a possibility there.
Probably my favorite player in the draft as far as ceiling. Lots of questions about health etc, but without the knee injury I'd take him over Fox hands down. But the knee is a big ? because he'll need his athleticism to be a star.
 
#54
Me too. Didn't like Tatum much at first but now think he could be the best player out of this draft in the long run. If that's the case then this draft isn't all that great, but you just don't find players with his skill level for a SF very often. I'm hoping, if the Kings draft him, his physical athletic skills will blossom as he gets a little older, like Carmelo for instance.
The hard part with Tatum as an ISO scorer is that he's not as athletic as guys like Paul George, Kobe, Derozan, even Gay etc and he's not as strong as Carmelo or Jabari Parker.

Extremely well developed offensive game for a young guy though.
 
#55
Probably my favorite player in the draft as far as ceiling. Lots of questions about health etc, but without the knee injury I'd take him over Fox hands down. But the knee is a big ? because he'll need his athleticism to be a star.
I worry less about DSJ's knee and more about his lackluster effort level in a number of games down the stretch.

He reminds me of Marbury and Francis both as a super athletic scoring PG but also as a guy who's not really a leader and calls his own number too much instead of getting his teammates involved and being a leader.

NC State had issues this year and maybe poor coaching and struggling teammates are part of the issue. Or maybe Smith's teammates struggled because he wasn't leading them.

He's definitely a dynamic and efficient scorer and a ton of fun to watch. Early in the season I thought he was a top 3 guy. We'll see.
 

kingsboi

Hall of Famer
#56
The hard part with Tatum as an ISO scorer is that he's not as athletic as guys like Paul George, Kobe, Derozan, even Gay etc and he's not as strong as Carmelo or Jabari Parker.

Extremely well developed offensive game for a young guy though.
can you even say he is as fluid as PG and Gay? when I watch those two, that's what I see. No stiff movements, everything comes gracefully.
 
#57
It's funny. Most drafts I am relatively certain of the guys I want and the guys I don't. This draft? I've been going back and forth over pretty much every guy.

My concern with Tatum is that he HAS to be able to transfer his ISO scoring to the NBA to be a very good or great player. But if he does you have your go-to scorer.

This is going to be a fun draft.

Seriously this. There isnt a guy in the top 10 that I would be pissed at us drafting. We all have our preferences of course, but the talent depth is just insane.
 
#58
can you even say he is as fluid as PG and Gay? when I watch those two, that's what I see. No stiff movements, everything comes gracefully.
Tatum is plenty fluid. He's very smooth in his movements. But while he's athletic enough he's not physically overwhelming in any way. He's not extraordinarily quick or extraordinarily strong. That's a concern.
 

kingsboi

Hall of Famer
#59
Tatum is plenty fluid. He's very smooth in his movements. But while he's athletic enough he's not physically overwhelming in any way. He's not extraordinarily quick or extraordinarily strong. That's a concern.
so based off that, he is more along the lines of a Pierce or Beasley.