James johnson

[Kingster]

OK, you win! Griffin's vertical was a half inch higher at 35.5", while Johnson's was just 35". Look, I'm just giving you the results from the combine. Lets also remember that Griffin is 6'10" in shoes, while Johnson is 6'8" in shoes. I might also add, that just because you can jump high, doesn't mean you share all the other athletic abilities of the other player. As you well know, this isn't a cookie cutter league, where everyone with the same height, and athletic ability perform's equally. J.J. Hickson has a great vertical as well, but he's no Blake Griffin.

Anyway, the point of the post wasn't to equate him with Griffin, but to show he's far from ground bound.

Totally agree that jumping is only one ingredient in the broader category of athleticism. I've made the same comment many times before. I just wonder though why we don't see highlights of Johnson ramming home dunks like Griffin. A couple of inches just doesn't seem like it should make a difference. I'm wondering if Johnson might be a slow jumper and Griffin a quick one. I also wonder if this doesn't show how deficient that vertical jump measurement really is in measuring actual performance on the court.

 

[xyrin]

And the question is so unserious that you can't even answer it. How serious does that make you? Do you think Johnson jumps as high as Griffin or don't you?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O9dho-vGdqo

He can definitely get up there. He has sneaky athleticism for his size, he just isn't the type of player who tries to go for the amazing dunk all the time (like Donte Greene), but he'll get the job done. He is not groundbound in any form (though I understand Brick just meant he LOOKS groundbound, but he definitely can jump).

And to the original post, regarding Johnson's block ability: he was by far the best blocking SF in the league. He was 20th in the league total with 2.58 blocks per 48 minutes (right behind Duncan at 2.59 and Bynum at 2.64, very good company to be in). Additionally, JJ has a high blocks to foul ratio, so even though he gets so many blocks he doesn't do it in a reckless or careless way. Just a very smart defensive player. I'm excited about him.

 

[bajaden]

don't know about that -- he was listed at 300 basically from as soon as he came into the league I think 290 his rookie season maybe.

The real thing with Shaq is that for most of his career he was way ABOVE that level. 330. 340. Who knows. In the last year in Boston he looked like he might have been carrying 350+. He was gigantic. But even young Shaq was monstrous.

I went and looked up Shaq's official stats from the NBA combine. His official weight at the combine was 305 pounds, and his listed vertical was 36 inches. Shaq was just one big dude.

 

[spudfan]

Totally agree that jumping is only one ingredient in the broader category of athleticism. I've made the same comment many times before. I just wonder though why we don't see highlights of Johnson ramming home dunks like Griffin. A couple of inches just doesn't seem like it should make a difference. I'm wondering if Johnson might be a slow jumper and Griffin a quick one. I also wonder if this doesn't show how deficient that vertical jump measurement really is in measuring actual performance on the court.

A couple of inches makes a huge difference. Pay attention to replays this season where someone gets dunked on, often the ball is a only a hair over/around the defenders hand. With that said, according to draft express Johnson also has a .5 standing reach advantage on Blake so in this case, the max vertical difference can be considered equal. Johnson also has a 1.5" wingspan advantage. Keep in mind, the vert being referenced is *max vert*, not standing vert.

Griffin has a 1.5 inch *standing vert* advantage on Johnson. This is one area where you will see a big difference. In a basketball game it is rare a player is going to get a full on run towards the hoop, unobstructed. The 1.5 standing inch vert advantage is probably more than that in context of a game. Griffins Lane Agility time is also better than Johnson's. Those two stats alone give you a good reason why you don't see Johnson dunk like Griffin. Griffin not only gets around his opponents quick, but has a significant lift advantage when he does as shown by standing vert. How often do we see from Griffin spinning off his guy and getting a lob? Often. I have not watched Johnson too much, so I can't tell you what kind of jumper he is. You mention being a "slow jumper", which is also probably part of the equation. Griffin is also what is known as a "power" jumper, in which he jumps off of two feet. Very useful in a game where he is taking contact, which lets him finish the spectacular dunks due to better balance.

I also wonder if this doesn't show how deficient that vertical jump measurement really is in measuring actual performance on the court.

I don't think anyone uses max vertical jump as a *predictor* of actual performance on the court.

 

[Tetsujin]

Ok, it just had to be asked: If this guy has the same vertical as Griffin, then why isn't he Griffin II? Also, it just seems hard to believe that he has the same vertical as Griffin when Griffin seems to be the best leaper the NBA has seen since the likes of David Thompson (I think his vertical was 44"), MJ, et al. What am I missing here?

Dunks tend to look more impressive when you use someone else's face to give yourself an extra boost as Blake is apt to do.

 

[bajaden]

Totally agree that jumping is only one ingredient in the broader category of athleticism. I've made the same comment many times before. I just wonder though why we don't see highlights of Johnson ramming home dunks like Griffin. A couple of inches just doesn't seem like it should make a difference. I'm wondering if Johnson might be a slow jumper and Griffin a quick one. I also wonder if this doesn't show how deficient that vertical jump measurement really is in measuring actual performance on the court.

Well I think some of it has to do with where your drafted. Blake came into the league with a lot of fanfare, and played a lot of minutes. Not so with Johnson. Look at Patrick Patterson in Houston. He also has a very good vertical, and he's a very good athlete, but he's not featured like Griffin. And once again, he's only 6'8" in shoes. Both Patterson and Johnson came into the league with questions as to what position either of them are best suited for. Not so with Griffin. It appears that Johnson has settled into the SF position. So we'll see. But trust me, the dude can dunk the ball, and as his 1.4 blocks a game indicates, he's a pretty good shotblocker as well, and perhaps just coming into his own in that area.

 

[Kingster]

A couple of inches makes a huge difference. Pay attention to replays this season where someone gets dunked on, often the ball is a only a hair over/around the defenders hand. With that said, according to draft express Johnson also has a .5 standing reach advantage on Blake so in this case, the max vertical difference can be considered equal. Johnson also has a 1.5" wingspan advantage. Keep in mind, the vert being referenced is *max vert*, not standing vert.

Griffin has a 1.5 inch *standing vert* advantage on Johnson. This is one area where you will see a big difference. In a basketball game it is rare a player is going to get a full on run towards the hoop, unobstructed. The 1.5 standing inch vert advantage is probably more than that in context of a game. Griffins Lane Agility time is also better than Johnson's. Those two stats alone give you a good reason why you don't see Johnson dunk like Griffin. Griffin not only gets around his opponents quick, but has a significant lift advantage when he does as shown by standing vert. How often do we see from Griffin spinning off his guy and getting a lob? Often. I have not watched Johnson too much, so I can't tell you what kind of jumper he is. You mention being a "slow jumper", which is also probably part of the equation. Griffin is also what is known as a "power" jumper, in which he jumps off of two feet. Very useful in a game where he is taking contact, which lets him finish the spectacular dunks due to better balance.



I don't think anyone uses max vertical jump as a *predictor* of actual performance on the court.

Thanks for the serious response. I wonder why they do the max vertical jump measurements to begin with, if in fact they aren't using them as a predictor of performance on the court? Also, if Johnson has a 1.5" advantage in wingspan, whereas Griffin has a 1.5" advantage in standing vertical jump, don't these two cancel each other out? Or is it more accurate to deduct the 0.5" standing reach advantage of Johnson from the 1.5" vertical jump advantage of Griffin to give Griffin a net 1.0" advantage when combining the two?

 

[Kingster]

Well I think some of it has to do with where your drafted. Blake came into the league with a lot of fanfare, and played a lot of minutes. Not so with Johnson. Look at Patrick Patterson in Houston. He also has a very good vertical, and he's a very good athlete, but he's not featured like Griffin. And once again, he's only 6'8" in shoes. Both Patterson and Johnson came into the league with questions as to what position either of them are best suited for. Not so with Griffin. It appears that Johnson has settled into the SF position. So we'll see. But trust me, the dude can dunk the ball, and as his 1.4 blocks a game indicates, he's a pretty good shotblocker as well, and perhaps just coming into his own in that area.

Can we also make the assumption that he should be a very good finisher on the offensive end?

 

[spudfan]

Thanks for the serious response. I wonder why they do the max vertical jump measurements to begin with, if in fact they aren't using them as a predictor of performance on the court? Also, if Johnson has a 1.5" advantage in wingspan, whereas Griffin has a 1.5" advantage in standing vertical jump, don't these two cancel each other out? Or is it more accurate to deduct the 0.5" standing reach advantage of Johnson from the 1.5" vertical jump advantage of Griffin to give Griffin a net 1.0" advantage when combining the two?

People like measurements, that's why they take them. Max vertical is much like a showtime dunk, looks cool but 2 points is 2 points. The wingspan vs vert don't cancel each other out because vert is about going up, wingspan is sideways. That makes standing reach more useful in the context of dunking. Wingspan would be more advantageous for defense/steals than dunking.

 

[pshn80]

I'm not much interested in measurements but certainly how they might contribute or take away from a players performance. I was interested in this thread because I wanted some feel as to what we might expect from Johnson. Shaq and Griffin? Not interested.

From what I read here he might be able to jump or he might not. He might have more value as a defensive SF but maybe can contribute on offense, a little. Is there anything more on the guy? Is he good natured? Is he on the bottom end of BB IQ? Has he a family? Where is he now? Has a message of him been Identified since the signing? Does he want to write a book when he retires?

I have written to the Bee asking for and in-depth article on him but no results. I know nothing of Aaron Brooks but more than I do about James Johnson. Anybody have anything more on him?

 

[Kingsguy881]

I know Toronto fans on realgm weren't happy to lose him...

 

[Bricklayer]

I'm not much interested in measurements but certainly how they might contribute or take away from a players performance. I was interested in this thread because I wanted some feel as to what we might expect from Johnson. Shaq and Griffin? Not interested.

From what I read here he might be able to jump or he might not. He might have more value as a defensive SF but maybe can contribute on offense, a little. Is there anything more on the guy? Is he good natured? Is he on the bottom end of BB IQ? Has he a family? Where is he now? Has a message of him been Identified since the signing? Does he want to write a book when he retires?

I have written to the Bee asking for and in-depth article on him but no results. I know nothing of Aaron Brooks but more than I do about James Johnson. Anybody have anything more on him?

Attitude will be one of the questions. He has a toughness about him which you want, but there have been rumors of problems. There was an incident in Toronto where he may have been smoking up in the team plane's bathroom in flight. Or not. The Bulls were not fans of his work ethic/attitude when he was there, but he trimmed down a lot last year and maybe was maturing out of that. It will bear some watching. He's certainly no Donte Greene clowning to keep everybody loose, but maybe that can be a good thing.

Regarding the leaping/finishing btw: my theory, based on limited evidence since I rarely watch Toronto and never specifically had a reason to pay attention to Johnson, is that he is a good enough leaper if he gets his steps right and has momentum. He can fly in for slam follows. But I don't think he is a quick leaper, or a wrong foot leaper, or a guy who is explosive at all times. His interior finishing percentage (58.7%) is actually only a couple of percentage points over Cousins', and well behind Reke's. My guess at that is that when he gets a run at it, he flushes it home, can slam it home on the break and is capable of converting alley oops. But when he is flat on the ground, in heavy traffic, off balance etc. he has not been a great finisher, and he's not the sort of athlete who can just rise up out of the scrum and finish over everybody's heads. But really now, even if my guess is right its a minor issue. We did not get him for his offense. In fact another minor issue with him might be that he likes to shoot rather more than he should and still needs to be broken out of that. As long as he can spot shoot (needs work) and finish breaks and open plays, that's all that is really asked. Numbers say he might have some passing ability too. Can't speak to that, but will watch for it.

 

[bajaden]

I'm not much interested in measurements but certainly how they might contribute or take away from a players performance. I was interested in this thread because I wanted some feel as to what we might expect from Johnson. Shaq and Griffin? Not interested.

From what I read here he might be able to jump or he might not. He might have more value as a defensive SF but maybe can contribute on offense, a little. Is there anything more on the guy? Is he good natured? Is he on the bottom end of BB IQ? Has he a family? Where is he now? Has a message of him been Identified since the signing? Does he want to write a book when he retires?

I have written to the Bee asking for and in-depth article on him but no results. I know nothing of Aaron Brooks but more than I do about James Johnson. Anybody have anything more on him?

I don't know how much I can help, other than to give you some history, and what personal knowledge I have from watching him in college. He went to Wake Forest for two years. He led the team in rebounding both those years playing PF, averaging around 8.5 rebounds both years. He declared for the draft after his sophmore year and was drafted by the Chicago Bulls 16th overall. His first year with the bulls he got little playing time. Playing some at PF and some at SF. Unfortunately he had good players in front of him. The next season, in Feb, he was traded to the Toronto Raptors, where his minutes went from 9 MPG with the Bulls, to 28MPG with the Raptors, and mostly at the SF position. He rewarded them by averaging 9.2 PPG, 4.7 RPG, 3.0 APG, and 1.1 BPG.

last season, he came back and essentially duplicated those numbers in 25 MPG, while increasing his scoring and blocks slightly to 11 PPG, and 1.4 BPG. Contrary to some posts in this thread, he's a very good athlete, with good leaping ability. He's still learning the SF position, and how to play away from the basket, since he played PF throughout highschool and college. His biggest weakness is his 3 pt shot, where he shot 31% last season. Strangely enough that would have made him one of the better 3 pt shooters on our team last season. He averaged close to 9 shots per game last season, up a little from the 7.5 shots a game the prior year. His overall shooting percentage dropped, which probably had something to do with taking more shots away from the basket.

Here's a little video that maybe will disspell some fears that he can't finish at the basket, or isn't a good dunker.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M6EuUxLVPlM

Here's another video from his days at Wake Forest.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8WToELfGv98

 

[beb0p]

I'm not much interested in measurements but certainly how they might contribute or take away from a players performance. I was interested in this thread because I wanted some feel as to what we might expect from Johnson. Shaq and Griffin? Not interested.

From what I read here he might be able to jump or he might not. He might have more value as a defensive SF but maybe can contribute on offense, a little. Is there anything more on the guy? Is he good natured? Is he on the bottom end of BB IQ? Has he a family? Where is he now? Has a message of him been Identified since the signing? Does he want to write a book when he retires?

I have written to the Bee asking for and in-depth article on him but no results. I know nothing of Aaron Brooks but more than I do about James Johnson. Anybody have anything more on him?

To sum it up, James Johnson is a jack of all trade, master of none. He can really handle the ball for a 6'-8 guy, he can also pass, slash, rebound, defend, and even block shots; plus size and athleticism to go with the package. Offensively, he doesn't have any go-to move and that hurts him - he can slash a bit but he's no Tyreke Evans or even a young John Salmons. His jump shot is inconsistent and he's prone to taking really bad shots and making really ridiculous unforced TOs that drive his coach crazy.

He was a matchup nightmare in college - a PF who can go between his legs and blow by you. Coming into the draft, the two big questions were whether he can expand his range and guard SFs. He answered one of the two questions, so now if he can start knocking down threes in a reasonable rate and cut down on the boneheaded plays he is going to carve out a niche for himself.

 

[pshn80]

Brick and bajaden, thank you both. Your info certainly gave more of a feel for the guy and a little more positive feel. It does sound like he maybe ready for this opportunity to play and be a valuable part of making this bunch of guys work better together. Let's hope so. Thanks again.

 

[pshn80]

Thanks, Bebop. All three f you folks have given me useful jJohnson stuff to chew on.

 

[bajaden]

To sum it up, James Johnson is a jack of all trade, master of none. He can really handle the ball for a 6'-8 guy, he can also pass, slash, rebound, defend, and even block shots; plus size and athleticism to go with the package. Offensively, he doesn't have any go-to move and that hurts him - he can slash a bit but he's no Tyreke Evans or even a young John Salmons. His jump shot is inconsistent and he's prone to taking really bad shots and making really ridiculous unforced TOs that drive his coach crazy.

He was a matchup nightmare in college - a PF who can go between his legs and blow by you. Coming into the draft, the two big questions were whether he can expand his range and guard SFs. He answered one of the two questions, so now if he can start knocking down threes in a reasonable rate and cut down on the boneheaded plays he is going to carve out a niche for himself.

I think you summed it up very fairly. He has potential, perhaps a lot of potential. He's still learning the game, especially from the SF position. But he's already ahead of Donte Greene in the same time period. Not that its a benchmark to surpass. He'll be entering his 4th year. A year that most players, especially bigs tend to put things together. Your right, he handles the ball very well, and can be a very good passer as well. He just has to stop trying to do things he can't do. One could say the same thing about Cuz to some extent. He also has a tendecy to force things at times. At the same time, JT, who had that reputation, seemed to see the light last season, and played within himself.

 

[Glenn]

I think you summed it up very fairly. He has potential, perhaps a lot of potential. He's still learning the game, especially from the SF position. But he's already ahead of Donte Greene in the same time period. Not that its a benchmark to surpass. He'll be entering his 4th year. A year that most players, especially bigs tend to put things together. Your right, he handles the ball very well, and can be a very good passer as well. He just has to stop trying to do things he can't do. One could say the same thing about Cuz to some extent. He also has a tendecy to force things at times. At the same time, JT, who had that reputation, seemed to see the light last season, and played within himself.

The same could be said of Cousins. All NBA players were the superior athletes on their college teams except for a couple colleges perhaps and certainly were by far the best athletes on their high school teams. I said this about Cousins and I hope it fits with JJ: let him try what he got away with in college and make mistakes. The only way he can find where his limits are is to push the limits and screw up. Hopefully by screwing up they will quit some of the silly aspects of their games and eliminate a lot of their mistakes.

 

[Prince_XY]

Scary, scary, scary. The 6' 8-9" James Johnson (Boris Diaw clone) is being compared now to Griffin and he can play both the SF and PF position.

With IT and Brooks surely playing most of the minutes at PG, put J. Johnson at PF and the team will look like midgets on the court. Very slim chance to win against the playoff bound full-sized teams.

 

[Capt. Factorial]

Scary, scary, scary. The 6' 8-9" James Johnson (Boris Diaw clone) is being compared now to Griffin and he can play both the SF and PF position.

With IT and Brooks surely playing most of the minutes at PG, put J. Johnson at PF and the team will look like midgets on the court. Very slim chance to win against the playoff bound full-sized teams.

Yes, Johnson has played some PF in the past. Lots of teams will go small from time to time either due to matchups or injuries or foul trouble. Perhaps Johnson will play a few minutes at PF for us this year. No big whoop if he does. His primary position here appears to be SF.

The Griffin comparisons, when they were made, were done to illustrate one point and one point only: that Johnson is not particularly "stubby" and "groundbound". Never ever once was the suggestion made that he was worthy to shine Griffin's shoes, much less as good as Griffin. Griffin is a straw man here.

 

[Bricklayer]

another note, he's already 25, so its not the Donte situation. He was an older rookie and is passing out of the stage where you normally see major develoments in somebody's game. We didn't trade for a diamond in the rough here. But maybe we traded for an emerging roleplayer. As long as his head is on straight and he makes some refinement he should be at the least serviceable. Not a savior, but a defensive upgrade. That's the thing with Geoff's 1001 shooters approach, ANYBODY who will come in scrap, be physical, put out defensive effort, is automatically useful. Its perfectly reasonable (I would go so far as to say smart) to be disappointed we didn't get anybody MORE. But being disappointed in getting Johnson in itself doesn't make much sense. We need more of his style players, not less.

 

[Section 101]

I think you summed it up very fairly. He has potential, perhaps a lot of potential. He's still learning the game, especially from the SF position. But he's already ahead of Donte Greene in the same time period. Not that its a benchmark to surpass. He'll be entering his 4th year. A year that most players, especially bigs tend to put things together. Your right, he handles the ball very well, and can be a very good passer as well. He just has to stop trying to do things he can't do. One could say the same thing about Cuz to some extent. He also has a tendecy to force things at times. At the same time, JT, who had that reputation, seemed to see the light last season, and played within himself.

Donte is a year younger and never got the minutes that Johnson did in his 3rd and 4th year.

 

[spudfan]

Donte is a year younger and never got the minutes that Johnson did in his 3rd and 4th year.

Maybe if Donte was on a bad team like the Raptors he would have had a chance to play as many minutes as Johnson.

 

[DesertFox]

Maybe if Donte was on a bad team like the Raptors he would have had a chance to play as many minutes as Johnson.

As opposed to the great talent he had to beat out on the Kings.

To be fair, I don't think Donte got the best treatment minutes wise, but per minute Johnson got twice the blocks and assists, and Donte's only advantage is 3's made, and even there they shoot a similar %.

 

[King Baller]

Somebody up there please allow JJ to become a Kings version of Bruce Bowen. Great defender at his position and career 3 point % of .393.

The Kings fans deserve it.

KB

 

[bajaden]

Donte is a year younger and never got the minutes that Johnson did in his 3rd and 4th year.

There is no 4th year! Johnson has only played three years in the NBA and only got serious minutes after he was traded to Toronto. My reference to Donte had to do with the skill level of each player by the end of their third year. It had nothing to do with age, but with NBA experience. The truth is, Donte got minutes and did nothing with them to deserve more minutes. Johnson got minutes, and earned more.

Whats with you people. You just want to argue about anything you can think of. I simply compare Johnson's vertical to Griffins to prove a point about his leaping ability, and then someone says I'm comparing him to Griffin. I mention Greene only as a reference point in each players career, and you want to nit pic it. For gods sake, this isn't rocket science.

 

[bajaden]

As opposed to the great talent he had to beat out on the Kings.

To be fair, I don't think Donte got the best treatment minutes wise, but per minute Johnson got twice the blocks and assists, and Donte's only advantage is 3's made, and even there they shoot a similar %.

Donte shot 23.8% from the three last season. Johnson shot 31% last season. So he doesn't even have bragging rights in that area. And Donte wouldn't know a rebound if it bit him in the butt. Now to be fair to Donte, there's no doubt the got jerked around, and it certainly didn't help his game. But the year he came in over weight, he was told the SF position was his prior to training camp. He burned all his bridges that season. So he has no one to blame but himself.

 

[Section 101]

Donte shot 23.8% from the three last season. Johnson shot 31% last season. So he doesn't even have bragging rights in that area. And Donte wouldn't know a rebound if it bit him in the butt. Now to be fair to Donte, there's no doubt the got jerked around, and it certainly didn't help his game. But the year he came in over weight, he was told the SF position was his prior to training camp. He burned all his bridges that season. So he has no one to blame but himself.

Actually, Donte was a much improveed rebounder last year. I don't think he was told anything or if he was it was the wrong things. There was talk they wanted him to come in bigger to play PF that year. And Westfail just wanted him to play defense and sit in the corner so you can't really blame Donte for that.

I was looking at his split year as 2 years.

 

[TTown Kings]

Maybe if Donte was on a bad team like the Raptors he would have had a chance to play as many minutes as Johnson.

This is hilarious. Yeah the Kings are a real powerhouse in the NBA. Just an FYI, the Raptors had a BETTER record than us last year.

 

[spudfan]

This is hilarious. Yeah the Kings are a real powerhouse in the NBA. Just an FYI, the Raptors had a BETTER record than us last year.

Thank you for the FYI. I had no idea.