It's all Vivek's fault (split)

[FoxOnTheRun]

The Sacramento Kings will never be a meritocracy under Vivek. When winning comes second to pandering, you'll always lose.

Kolokotronis is not the problem. It's Vivek. Always has been. Dude needs to sell the team to someone who wants to win.

 

[HebrewHammer]

The Sacramento Kings will never be a meritocracy under Vivek. When winning comes second to pandering, you'll always lose.

Kolokotronis is not the problem. It's Vivek. Always has been. Dude needs to sell the team to someone who wants to win.

I am hoping that Vivek is intelligent enough to come to a point that he realizes that getting involved in the basketball ops side of things is not his strength, that he has to hire a capable GM, step aside and let him do his thing.
Vlade is clearly not the answer.

 

[VF21]

I am hoping that Vivek is intelligent enough to come to a point that he realizes that getting involved in the basketball ops side of things is not his strength, that he has to hire a capable GM, step aside and let him do his thing.
Vlade is clearly not the answer.

Vivek came to that realization a while back. He hired Vlade and has, in fact, stepped back. Vlade might not be the answer but Vivek's meddling is not the question.

 

[KingsFanSince85]

The Sacramento Kings will never be a meritocracy under Vivek.

Kolokotronis is not the problem. It's Vivek. Always has been.

A lot of KINGS fans are unhappy with the lack of progress being made and with numerous decisions, but speaking in absolutes is silly.

Furthermore, regarding Matina, unless you’re directly involved, you have absolutely no clue who is or who isn’t a problem. You’re just speculating based off rumors and gossip.

 

[FoxOnTheRun]

A lot of KINGS fans are unhappy with the lack of progress being made and with numerous decisions, but speaking in absolutes is silly.

Furthermore, regarding Matina, unless you’re directly involved, you have absolutely no clue who is or who isn’t a problem. You’re just speculating based off rumors and gossip.

This is a fan forum, 99% of this place is speculation. lol

BTW... I'm not going off of rumors. I'm going off of my own eyes and ears. This is Vivek's team and he is 100% responsible it's dysfunction and the ineptitude of his employees. Cruella should have been fired long ago. Vlade should have been fired even sooner. Brandon Williams should have been fired immediately, instead Vivek failed to get his employees in check and showed zero loyalty to his head coach which completely fractured what little relationship they had to begin with.

The NBA 3.0/jazz ensemble/position-less basketball crap. His push to draft Steph Thompson aka Nik Stauskas. The hiring of that rat bastard Pete D'Alesandro AFTER Mike Malone. The firing of Malone. The non-firing of front office scrubs. Even the little things like the Sim Bhullar clown show to the firing and elimination of the Kings dancers. At the end of the day, Vivek is simply an awful owner. Easily the worst in the NBA and one of the worst in all of sports. He's needs to go back to doing whatever he did that earned him a billion bucks because running a sports franchise isn't working.

 

[John Galt]

This is a fan forum, 99% of this place is speculation. lol

BTW... I'm not going off of rumors. I'm going off of my own eyes and ears. This is Vivek's team and he is 100% responsible it's dysfunction and the ineptitude of his employees. Cruella should have been fired long ago. Vlade should have been fired even sooner. Brandon Williams should have been fired immediately, instead Vivek failed to get his employees in check and showed zero loyalty to his head coach which completely fractured what little relationship they had to begin with.

The NBA 3.0/jazz ensemble/position-less basketball crap. His push to draft Steph Thompson aka Nik Stauskas. The hiring of that rat bastard Pete D'Alesandro AFTER Mike Malone. The firing of Malone. The non-firing of front office scrubs. Even the little things like the Sim Bhullar clown show to the firing and elimination of the Kings dancers. At the end of the day, Vivek is simply an awful owner. Easily the worst in the NBA and one of the worst in all of sports. He's needs to go back to doing whatever he did that earned him a billion bucks because running a sports franchise isn't working.

you just said it all. perfectly.

 

[KingsFanSince85]

This is a fan forum, 99% of this place is speculation. lol

BTW... I'm not going off of rumors. I'm going off of my own eyes and ears..

The 1st statement is hyperbole, but likely partially correct. However, I’m not buying your spin job excuse for positioning what you stated as truth or fact. Because that’s what you did yet you really have idea what’s true and what isn’t. It’s purely speculation guess work not based upon a first person account and is better positioned as such.

Regarding your 2nd statement, unless you are part of the front office or have some unique insight into it other than 2nd hand info from media sources that also are doing a lot of guesswork and connecting of dots — your “eyes and ears“ aren‘t part of the equation at all. So save it.

Just acknowledge that it’s your belief based upon limited info that may or may not be exactly truth. It’s ok to do that.

If you heard about an incident or crime you didn’t witness in person, would you also claim to know exactly what happened based upon heresy from others that also didn’t witness anything and only reported what they heard from various conflicting sources? That’s what you’re doing here.

 

[Turgenev]

The team does not have a winning record and we can identify some decisions that, retrospectively, have not worked out and therefore Vivek is the worst owner around. Let's ignore the circumstances, the objective positives, such as financing the team, the signs that he is capable of learning and adjusting, and that we know nothing of who he might sell to.

 

[KainLear]

This is a fan forum, 99% of this place is speculation. lol

BTW... I'm not going off of rumors. I'm going off of my own eyes and ears...

Bit of a copout. There's speculation and then there's pure fiction. It's a slippery slope when you create fiction based off of 2nd-hand speculation of the media machine.

I'm not a huge fan of the whole front office either, Vivek, Vlade, and Walton included, but what you got going on...

Cruella should have been fired long ago. Vlade should have been fired even sooner. Brandon Williams should have been fired immediately, instead Vivek failed to get his employees in check and showed zero loyalty to his head coach which completely fractured what little relationship they had to begin with. The NBA 3.0/jazz ensemble/position-less basketball crap. His push to draft Steph Thompson aka Nik Stauskas. The hiring of that rat bastard Pete D'Alesandro AFTER Mike Malone. The firing of Malone. The non-firing of front office scrubs. Even the little things like the Sim Bhullar clown show to the firing and elimination of the Kings dancers.

... are just too far away from actual fact.

 

[Section 101]

Bit of a copout. There's speculation and then there's pure fiction. It's a slippery slope when you create fiction based off of 2nd-hand speculation of the media machine.

I'm not a huge fan of the whole front office either, Vivek, Vlade, and Walton included, but what you got going on...

... are just too far away from actual fact.

huh? Malone was hired before Pete.

 

[HebrewHammer]

The team does not have a winning record and we can identify some decisions that, retrospectively, have not worked out and therefore Vivek is the worst owner around. Let's ignore the circumstances, the objective positives, such as financing the team, the signs that he is capable of learning and adjusting, and that we know nothing of who he might sell to.

It has been reported on several occasions that Vivek is not the majority shareholder; he leads one of the biggest groups of shareholders and was put forward as the one person to take an executive role on behalf of ownership (or perhaps there is a better word for it).
Apparently, he can only be removed from that role - so, it is likely not a matter of selling the team - if the organization is functioning at a very low level. That can perhaps be argued about the results of the team, but not from a financial perspective.
The way I see it, the only ways he gets pushed out is:
- if the dysfunction continues much longer;
- if the fans start to turn their backs on this team collectively (which seems to be starting);
- if G1C becomes an empty, cavernous ghost town;
- if the team starts losing serious money.

 

[KingsFanSince85]

I do believe the structure of the FO/basketball personnel decision makers need to change. I’m just not gonna pretend I know for sure who is and who isn’t causing problems. Like most, I believe I have a tiny bit of an idea who I’d like to see gone, but I still don’t know for certain who is and who isn’t the real problem.

I mean, I suspect Vivek has taken a more hands off approach in recent years, but I don‘t know that to a certainty. I also suspect that Matina has Vivek and even Vlade’s ear due to their prior relationships and still has a lot of influence in what goes on in the org — but I don’t pretend to know for certain nor to what degree.

I do believe Vlade has made lots of poor decisions regarding trades, FA acquisitions, and draft selections. And the ultimate decisions are supposedly his. What I don’t know is how much he listens to the other execs, the head coach, or owners. Did he decide MB3 over #77 because it was the majority of the draft room‘s preference and go against his own preference? Did he go against the majority and decide upon MB3 on his own?? IDK. But he is the one responsible for the decision however it was arrived at.

So, to me, he’s done enough to warrant losing his job.

 

[whozit]

It has been reported on several occasions that Vivek is not the majority shareholder; he leads one of the biggest groups of shareholders and was put forward as the one person to take an executive role on behalf of ownership (or perhaps there is a better word for it).
Apparently, he can only be removed from that role - so, it is likely not a matter of selling the team - if the organization is functioning at a very low level. That can perhaps be argued about the results of the team, but not from a financial perspective.
The way I see it, the only ways he gets pushed out is:
- if the dysfunction continues much longer;
- if the fans start to turn their backs on this team collectively (which seems to be starting);
- if G1C becomes an empty, cavernous ghost town;
- if the team starts losing serious money.

I'm curious about the way you put Vivek's control.

My understanding and I am often wrong is that he owns about ~30% of the team. That would be the same as not majority ownership. But that 30% has controlling interest, i.e. the other 70% is "minority" ownership irregardless. I hadn't heard anything about him just being the person put in charge from a group of ownership. I don't think that is true but if so would explain much about the dysfunction.

 

[HebrewHammer]

I'm curious about the way you put Vivek's control.

My understanding and I am often wrong is that he owns about ~30% of the team. That would be the same as not majority ownership. But that 30% has controlling interest, i.e. the other 70% is "minority" ownership irregardless. I hadn't heard anything about him just being the person put in charge from a group of ownership. I don't think that is true but if so would explain much about the dysfunction.

I am often wrong as well.
There are several reports that a group led by Vivek bought a 65% stake in the Kings, not that Vivek bought 65%.

See for instance this report by ESPN:
The Maloof family completed the sale of the Kings and Sleep Train Arena to a group led by TIBCO Software chairman Vivek Ranadive

The Sacramento group also includes 24 Hour Fitness founder Mark Mastrov, former Facebook senior executive Chris Kelly and the Jacobs family that owns communications giant Qualcomm.

 

[whozit]

I am often wrong as well.
There are several reports that a group led by Vivek bought a 65% stake in the Kings, not that Vivek bought 65%.

See for instance this report by ESPN:
The Maloof family completed the sale of the Kings and Sleep Train Arena to a group led by TIBCO Software chairman Vivek Ranadive

The Sacramento group also includes 24 Hour Fitness founder Mark Mastrov, former Facebook senior executive Chris Kelly and the Jacobs family that owns communications giant Qualcomm.

That can be taken multiple ways. The Maloofs didn't own 100%of the team. So the group buying were only buying their share. Did he get control by buying the biggest part of the controlling interest? I have no idea nor what mechanisms there are in removing him from control.

I think the problems start at ownership and trickle down. What I think and what is don't necessarily go hand in hand.

 

[HebrewHammer]

Anybody heard Carmichael Dave today on Sports 1140 KHTK radio?

He really went pretty hard after the FO and especially ownership.

https://khtk.com/category/podcast_player/?a=10019893&sid=1176&n=The+Drive+With+Carmichael+Dave

It’s approx. In the last 6 minutes of the broadcast.

 

[rainmaker]

Anybody heard Carmichael Dave today on Sports 1140 KHTK radio?

He really went pretty hard after the FO and especially ownership.

https://khtk.com/category/podcast_player/?a=10019893&sid=1176&n=The+Drive+With+Carmichael+Dave

It’s approx. In the last 6 minutes of the broadcast.

While true, ownership is always the most at fault and majority of the blame always goes to the top, 1140's own Grant has created an environment where fans can't question the players, the coach or the GM. They get shouted down and hung up on.

And Grant's role here also goes back to ownership. He is and long has been the mouthpiece for ownership. Many years ago they could have said either be the team's play by play guy or be an individual host on KHTK. Instead he's been allowed to do both. And we also know Kings ownership has sway over what's said on KHTK, per Dave's previous firing years ago.

So I'd suggest the environment which has led to a pissed off fan base to go after players on social media again goes back to ownership. They hide and censor. There's no accountability. Grant shuts down dissension, Vivek and his handler block people on social media. When the best fan base in the NBA who kept the team in Sac get this angry, for the first time in the Sac era, look in the mirror. One thing for certain is this inept ownership group has taken the fan base for granted.

Vivek and ownership have it easy in Sac btw. Here in NY the local media is running Dolan thru the mud day after day. Why? They realize when you suck for this long it's due to the person at the top.

 

[HebrewHammer]

Vivek and ownership have it easy in Sac btw. Here in NY the local media is running Dolan thru the mud day after day. Why? They realize when you suck for this long it's due to the person at the top.

Well, perhaps the tone is changing. Carmichael Dave sounded very critical and the Bee had some recent articles which also seem to be less about homerism and more about asking when things will change. Not ripping ownership apart, but does it feel as if the tide may be turning a bit?

 

[R2D2]

Vivek came to that realization a while back. He hired Vlade and has, in fact, stepped back. Vlade might not be the answer but Vivek's meddling is not the question.

Spot on!

Some perspective: Vivek bought the Kings from the Maloof family less than 7 years ago. Vivek, alongside the late David Stern, KJ and others is the reason why the Kings are still playing in Sacramento. People who care about the city should never forget that.

Generally speaking, suggesting to rotate ownership every 7 years is absurd. Expecting to rebuild the organisation to a point of perfection in 7 years (did people already forget how the Maloofs run this organisation into the ground?!?) is nonsensical. And an argument can be made that many off court aspects have seen significant improvement.

Yes, the product on the court - the most important aspect of an NBA franchise - is disappointing. But Vivek put the keys in Vlade's hands only 5 years ago, and GMs' work also require time.

I believe it is time to evaluate whether Vlade delivered the expected results. If he didn't, a new GM needs to replace him. But suggesting the ownership needs to be replaced at this time is foolish.

 

[VF21]

Well, perhaps the tone is changing. Carmichael Dave sounded very critical and the Bee had some recent articles which also seem to be less about homerism and more about asking when things will change. Not ripping ownership apart, but does it feel as if the tide may be turning a bit?

Actually, that's about par for the course from the Bee. Some of the Kings' greatest critics have included R.E. Graswich and Marcos Breton.

 

[HebrewHammer]

I'm curious about the way you put Vivek's control.

My understanding and I am often wrong is that he owns about ~30% of the team. That would be the same as not majority ownership. But that 30% has controlling interest, i.e. the other 70% is "minority" ownership irregardless. I hadn't heard anything about him just being the person put in charge from a group of ownership. I don't think that is true but if so would explain much about the dysfunction.

Found it! I knew I have read the details somewhere.

An old ESPN article about DMC, by Kevin Arnovitz, about 2/3rd down:

"At the eleventh hour, the league approved a deal that would keep the team in California's capital city, thanks to a hastily cobbled together collection of owners that included Ranadive; Qualcomm executive chairman Paul Jacobs and his brothers, Jeff and Hal; Mark Mastrov, the founder and CEO of 24 Hour Fitness; Sacramento developer Mark Friedman; swimwear magnate Raj Bhathal; mobile and startup entrepreneur Andy Miller; and others.

Though he owns less than 20 percent of the franchise, Ranadive was named Sacramento's majority owner or controlling governor. It was an unusual arrangement that required approval from the NBA, but this distinction gave him unchecked power to make important organizational decisions, even if those disagreeing represented a greater share of ownership."

 

[whozit]

Found it! I knew I have read the details somewhere.

An old ESPN article about DMC, by Kevin Arnovitz, about 2/3rd down:

"At the eleventh hour, the league approved a deal that would keep the team in California's capital city, thanks to a hastily cobbled together collection of owners that included Ranadive; Qualcomm executive chairman Paul Jacobs and his brothers, Jeff and Hal; Mark Mastrov, the founder and CEO of 24 Hour Fitness; Sacramento developer Mark Friedman; swimwear magnate Raj Bhathal; mobile and startup entrepreneur Andy Miller; and others.

Though he owns less than 20 percent of the franchise, Ranadive was named Sacramento's majority owner or controlling governor. It was an unusual arrangement that required approval from the NBA, but this distinction gave him unchecked power to make important organizational decisions, even if those disagreeing represented a greater share of ownership."

That is less than I thought. Difference might be the percentage of what was bought (being sold) versus entire ownership.

Have to wonder about the fine print. How do they handle cash calls? How do they handle if shares go up for sale? I can easily see a unstable organization with politics galore.

 

[HebrewHammer]

That is less than I thought. Difference might be the percentage of what was bought (being sold) versus entire ownership.

Have to wonder about the fine print. How do they handle cash calls? How do they handle if shares go up for sale? I can easily see a unstable organization with politics galore.

Yup.