IT = Rumor of 3/24 offer from Pistons

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Big Cuz 15

Big Cuz 15

All-Star
#602
#602
funkykingston said:
I think $22 million over four years would be a solid deal had IT been supplanted by a quality starting PG and adapted to the sixth man role. But after being a starter once again and putting up very solid offensive numbers I suspected he'd get bigger offers. But that's the thing - other than the rumored deal from Detroit (who subsequently signed Meeks possibly eliminating that deal) I haven't heard of big money offers for IT.

I figured the Kings' best chance to resign IT at a reasonable/bargain contract was to give him an offer that slightly exceeded the MLE and hope that no teams under the cap were willing to offer more. Assuming the MLE is $5.3 million and assuming 10% raises that deal works out to around $24.5 million. So I'm surprised that the Kings would not go with 4 years $25 million. Still, maybe it's an indication that the market for Thomas will be softer than expected.

We'll see.
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he'd be a good deal at 16m/4yr. someone offer him that so we can match already!
 
Bricklayer

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#603
#603
The_Jamal said:
Collison is not a "proven starter" He's actually never stuck anywhere as a "starter" since he's been in the league. He's a good player, but there's been issues with his lack of consistent play throughout his career. Dude got bounced for Mike James for pete's sake.

Where Collison excells is he has value at both the 1 and 2 guard spot, he's a good consistent 3pt shooter, and he can D up a bit.. He played a ton with Chris Paul last season and he was in the Clippers closing line-up at the 2 guard when they went Cp3-Collison-Crawford-BG-Jordan. 23% of his minutes last year were at the SG spot. I think he makes a ton of sense there next season too in which we don't have to rely on Stauskas or Ben to close out games.

Fact is, our team gets a lot worse if IT isn't resigned, especially at the $5-$7mil valuation he's going to get. Collison-Mac-Ben-Stauskas is a disaster heading into the season. It lacks consistent ball-handling, playmaking and non-dependable scoring. IT-Collison-Stauskas-Ben-Ray turns the backcourt from a huge weakness into something that looks like an NBA backcourt. In theory, there's scoring, defense, playmaking, and shooting throughout that line-up. We'll never be stuck playing Outlaw at the back-up 2 guard, nor be stuck playing Ben 30+MPG.
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I'm far from a Darren Collison jocker, but he's started 254 games in the league out of 376, and done no worse than split every season between starting and backing up. And he's done this for playoff teams too. He's no elite starter, but this guy is no reach as a starter. He will leave you wanting, but everybody knows he can do it, because he has.

In 254 career games as a starter Collison has averaged:

32.7min 13.6pts (.465 .390 .867) 3.0reb 5.8ast

I mean that's pretty much exactly what it looks like. Low level starter. And if you are a good team with a HOF PG you can have him as your backup, that's true. But if somebody else starts him its hardly a revolutionary idea. In his 5 seasons he's never started fewer than 35 games (although CP3's tendency to get hurt of course influences that).

P.S. Spud Webb, who Jerry just wuuuuvs to death, put up these numbers as a starter over his career (429 career starts):

32.7min 13.3pts (.450 .335 .870) 2.6reb 6.8ast
 
T

The_Jamal

Hall of Famer
#604
#604
Bricklayer said:
I'm far from a Darren Collison jocker, but he's started 254 games in the league out of 376, and done no worse than split every season between starting and backing up. And he's done this for playoff teams too. He's no elite starter, but this guy is no reach as a starter. He will leave you wanting, but everybody knows he can do it, because he has.

In 254 career games as a starter Collison has averaged:

32.7min 13.6pts (.465 .390 .867) 3.0reb 5.8ast

I mean that's pretty much exactly what it looks like. Low level starter. And if you are a good team with a HOF PG you can have him as your backup, that's true. But if somebody else starts him its hardly a revolutionary idea. In his 5 seasons he's never started fewer than 35 games (although CP3's tendency to get hurt of course influences that).

P.S. Spud Webb, who Jerry just wuuuuvs to death, put up these numbers as a starter over his career (429 career starts):

32.7min 13.3pts (.450 .335 .870) 2.6reb 6.8ast
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The issue is not the start totals. the issue is he's never stuck around anywhere as a starter for 3 different teams in 3 different years. That suggests a problem with him as a starter no? He was ousted for Mike James a 3000 year old Mike James in Dallas because of his DEFENSE.

He's a good player, but he should be in the role he was last season. Combo guard off the bench, play decent defense, good shooting and fairly steady play. But there's nothing to suggest in his career that teams consider him a starting level PG. Otherwise, they would have tried to actually hold on to him.

I like him as a player and think he'll bring some decent stable play and shooting to our back-court. But his signing remains to be a big step backwards for us until IT comes back as well.
 
roasthawg

roasthawg

Starter
#605
#605
The_Jamal said:
The issue is not the start totals. the issue is he's never stuck around anywhere as a starter for 3 different teams in 3 different years. He was ousted for Mike James a 3000 year old Mike James in Dallas because of his DEFENSE.

He's a good player, but he should be in the role he was last season. Combo guard off the bench, play decent defense, good shooting and fairly steady play. But there's nothing to suggest in his career that teams consider him a starting level PG. Otherwise, they would have tried to actually hold on to him.
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28-9 as a starter last year in LA... 30-15 with him coming off the bench. Just now coming into his prime... it's possible he's figuring it out. He didn't leave the Clips because they didn't want him back either... he left on his terms. Dallas was his worst stop for sure but he followed that act up with his best last year.
 
K

KingMilz

Guest
#607
#607
I personally hope IT goes to Dallas to be the 6th man, they need a dribbling/shooting PG when Monta is off the floor and Harris is more of a defender/set up guy, I think he could play that JJ Barea (when JJ was slaugthering the Thunder not current JJ) role fairly well for them. Dallas lacked a 3rd guy who could create for himself last season IT imo is the answer.
 
Dime Dropper

Dime Dropper

All-Star
#609
#609
Looking at his account (which has 360 followers), it seems that he knows jack-crap. I wouldn't put any stock into anything he says. He just latched onto a widely-known rumour.
 
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sidney

sidney

Starter
#620
#620
Once Lebron, Bosh, and Melo decide, we'll find out how much leverage IT has left. There is still a lot of potential cap space out there between the Lakers, Heat, Cavs, and Rockets.
 
Albatros

Albatros

Starter
#621
#621
Isaiah had followed the pistons, lakers, mavs and heat on twitter. I guess that's confirmation of his choices. (Or a bluff)

Sucks there won't be a s&t with Detroit by the sounds of it.
 
VF21

VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
#625
#625
Agent23 said:
Yup. We'll be able to keep him for his true value not that over inflated price his agent has been putting out there. 3 year 9 million dollar deal seems appropriate for Sir Chuckalot.
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You must have missed this:

@MySportsLegion: Report: Kings offering Isaiah Thomas a 4 year deal, worth roughly $22 mill. Way short of what Thomas will command on the market. (Sac Bee)
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If the numbers part is correct, he'll be looking at what most here agree is a fair salary in the $5 million/year range.
 
L

LA King Fan II

Bench
#626
#626
The money that others are getting has got to be killin Isaiah at this point.

Can't help wondering what $ he and his agent scoffed at and if he even gets Collison money now. It is a shame if he lost his game of "chicken" with the market. Good guy and good player just not invaluable to the Kings IMO.

Not really his fault, just got caught playing hardball at 5'9.
 
VF21

VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
#627
#627
LA King Fan II said:
The money that others are getting has got to be killin Isaiah at this point.

Can't help wondering what $ he and his agent scoffed at and if he even gets Collison money now. It is a shame if he lost his game of "chicken" with the market. Good guy and good player just not invaluable to the Kings IMO.

Not really his fault, just got caught playing hardball at 5'9.
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He and his agent IMHO took a risk they should not have taken. He has a solid fan base here, despite what a lot of us say on the board. He could and possibly still will have a fruitful career as a King. To be so obvious about looking elsewhere just wasn't the right play, considering the drawbacks.
 
L

LA King Fan II

Bench
#628
#628
Still, we've seen him outplay Irving, Wall and Lowry individually so you can see why his agent felt they were in a good spot. Ultimately I think he's best suited to play like Iverson but hes a notch less talented and the league has elevated itself to focus on 5 guys contributing on the court at once. Isaiah has value just not as a team's best or second best option.
 
L

Livinthedream

All-Star
#629
#629
@sam_amick: The Pistons, I'm told, are not involved with free agent Isaiah Thomas. The former Kings PG had been connected to them previously.

@aaronbruski: Pretty sure it was thoroughly debunked that an offer had ever been made, but in case it wasn’t clear an offer was never made to IT2 by DET.

Just to confirm that we don't know what the market value is for IT, but based on our reported offer, it's probably about 5 mil. If IT comes back, maybe this will be humbling.​
 
Sac.Kings

Sac.Kings

All-Star
#630
#630
Wouldn't surprise me one bit if IT and his agent thought he was worth 8+ a year, and he certainly made a grave mistake if that is the case. He is more than just one notch less talented than Iverson... AI was capable of making an average team reach the Finals by himself. IT isn't good enough to get a team an additional 5 wins or even remotely close to the playoffs. Anyway, I hope we can retain him on the cheap and if he declines due to his pride, S&T him and only then will he realize how great he had it here. Once the two prima donnas (Lebron and Melo) decide where to go, maybe we can finally solve this IT problem because it is becoming annoying to me and most likely to the team.
 
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