IT = Rumor of 3/24 offer from Pistons

[Prince_XY]

No one is saying IT is going to be one of your main guys, if you can get him for $6-$7 million thats the same price you paid for guys like Carl Landry, JT(who are supposed to be your role players). If you can bring IT off your bench, thats one heck of a weapon to have, and if Collison gets hurt IT is one heck of a replacement to have as your starter.IT has proven he can produce in this league, would you really feel comfortable with a backcourt of Collison(who has already failed as a starter in this league), McCallum(who has less than a quarter of a season under his belt as far a playing time), McLemore(don't even have to say anything), Stauskas(rookie, looks promising but who was the last rookie to make a huge impact for us, ALL rookies hit a wall at some point). IT is literally the only PROVEN player in the backcourt if he comes back, has proven he can come off the bench and produce at a high level and has proven he can start, play 40 plus minutes and compete with the best of the best as far as PG's go in this league.

Yes, offensively he can produce points during the regular season, extremely doubtful on playoff games, and yes, at the great expense of his teammates too. And that is his only story, really.

Let me remind you what IT is:

Severely undersized at 5' 8.75" without shoes = checked
Big defensive liability that is impossible to hide = checked
Me-first mentality/SELFISH = checked
Freezes teammates offensively = checked
Poor facilitator of offense = checked
Does not want to come off the bench = checked

Is this going to be our 6th man and playing back-up PG who will play about 20-25 minutes per game?

My gosh, take away IT’s ability to score and all you’re left with are the very qualities you don’t want in a player.

And who do you pair IT to cover his deficiencies when he comes in?

The rookie Stauskas who is not known for his defense?

The sophomore McLemore who cannot defend a chair?

Or, do we go extremely small-ball and pair him with Collison or McCallum and just enjoy whatever circus-like entertainment that pairing brings us?

Now, how in this world can we use IT and at an exorbitant price of 6-7m/year? I thought we already have our new Kenny Thomas in Landry. And you want to add another one? I can understand your emotional investment on IT, but please be rational and put the welfare of the team first.

Again, IT can be used only in short burst or on special circumstances when the team needs a quick 2 or 3 points. You don’t want to use IT even as a back-up PG for fear of playing him more than 15 minutes a game. The game is only played for 48 minutes. Those 15 minutes a game can cause you another 28-win season. You want to prevent him from freezing other players and you want to prevent having a defensive liability for longer periods of time.

Yes, I agree with you. If you can bring IT off the bench for 2-3 minutes at a time, he is one heck of a weapon to have very much like EARL BOYKINS.

But for 6-7M/year…….OMG.

Are you related to IT by any chance?If you are, I apologize for seemingly too harsh on IT. I just cannot help being honest.

 

[jcwkings]

Yes, offensively he can produce points during the regular season, extremely doubtful on playoff games, and yes, at the great expense of his teammates too. And that is his only story, really.

Let me remind you what IT is:

Severely undersized at 5' 8.75" without shoes = checked
Big defensive liability that is impossible to hide = checked
Me-first mentality = checked
Freezes teammates offensively = checked
Poor facilitator of offense = checked
Does not want to come off the bench = checked

Is this going to be our 6th man and playing back-up PG who will play about 20-25 minutes per game?

My gosh, take away IT’s ability to score and all you’re left with are the very qualities you don’t want in a player.

And who do you pair IT to cover his deficiencies when he comes in?

The rookie Stauskas who is not known for his defense?

The sophomore McLemore who cannot defend a chair?

Or, do we go extremely small-ball and pair him with Collison or McCallum and just enjoy whatever circus-like entertainment that pairing brings us?

Now, how in this world can we use IT and at an exorbitant price of 6-7m/year? I thought we already have our new Kenny Thomas in Landry. And you want to add another one? I can understand your emotional investment on IT, but please be rational and put the welfare of the team first.

Again, IT can be used only in short burst or on special circumstances when the team needs a quick 2 or 3 points. You don’t want to use IT even as a back-up PG for fear of playing him at least 15 minutes a game. The game is only played for 48 minutes. You want to play him short minutes only. You want to prevent him from freezing other players and you want to prevent having a defensive liability for longer periods of time.

Yes, I agree with you. If you can bring IT off the bench for 2-3 minutes at a time, he is one heck of a weapon to have very much like EARL BOYKINS.

But for 6-7M/year…….OMG.

Are you related to IT by any chance?If you are, I apologize for seemingly too harsh on IT. I just cannot help being honest.

This has got to be the biggest joke post I have ever read. Its like all the craziness of anti-IT kingsfans.com cult culminated into one amazing piece. Congratulations, you win.

 

[Big Cuz 15]

is he not speaking the truth jcw? all valid points from xy. i haven't knocked DC bc i know what he is and what he brings. i think he'll be adequate although he wasn't my first choice.

 

[jcwkings]

is he not speaking the truth jcw? all valid points from xy. i haven't knocked DC bc i know what he is and what he brings. i think he'll be adequate although he wasn't my first choice.

I dont even have to respond, the post speaks for itself. There certainly are valid reasons/arguements why someone would not want IT on the Kings, that post certainly wasnt one of them. I almost wonder if its a parody of more moderate IT haters. At least I got a good laugh.

 

[Glenn]

I agree with your honest criticism but also realize that our PG's options last year were severely limited because good basketball wisdom did not allow him to use his SG as a person to pass to as is the case on normal NBA teams. It's like being a PG with part of an arm tied behind his back. All I can do is assume if he had Christie or Vasquez playing the SG position the scene would have been a totally different and better world for the Kings. That's my major reservation about laying responsibility for bad PG play at IT's feet.

I don't agree. IT is what he is and needs to be on a team that needs/wants him.

 

[peacelate]

Out of curiosity, why do people post IT's height w/o shoes?

 

[Andre CPA]

Out of curiosity, why do people post IT's height w/o shoes?

I listened to Cowbell Kingdom's podcast (52 min long) that spent a majority of their show talking about their love for Isaiah Thomas, it was so much that they're knocking on Collison; in fact one of them stated Collison's height as 6'0, 160 pounds. C'mon now. Give DC a chance, he just turned 25, about 5 years pro now, he's just getting into his prime and I think 3 yrs @ 16mil is more than fair for a guy like him. Would I prefer Rondo? Yes, but this is Sacramento and I'm just glad he wants to be here to play. Isaiah is 5'10 with shoes, but either way, everyone's wearing shoes on the court so it doesn't matter. Collison is more 6'2-6'3 with shoes.

 

[Flopi]

Out of curiosity, why do people post IT's height w/o shoes?

Never understood why people are obsessed with height WITH shoes.
Absolute height of one player, with or without shoes, is irrevelant.
Height value only matters when COMPARING.
So, to me, comparing heights with shoes doesn't make any sense.
Shoes add a variable. Simple math.

 

[Flopi]

That being said, I don't think height is the most important measurement.
Standing reach is. You don't get a ball in the air with the top of your head.

 

[NowImLost]

Serious question, how does everyone pronounce "IT" in their head, is it "EYE-TEE" or "It" like Cousin Itt?
Because I have always read it and said it as Cousin Itt type.

 

[Chicken Chaser]

Serious question, how does everyone pronounce "IT" in their head, is it "EYE-TEE" or "It" like Cousin Itt?
Because I have always read it and said it as Cousin Itt type.

"eye-tee".. Because initials yo

 

[peacelate]

Never understood why people are obsessed with height WITH shoes.
Absolute height of one player, with or without shoes, is irrevelant.
Height value only matters when COMPARING.
So, to me, comparing heights with shoes doesn't make any sense.
Shoes add a variable. Simple math.

But the variable is probably constant around the board, so it probably doesn't matter with or without shoes doesn't matter as long as the variable is applied equally.

With shorter players, it's stressed to measure w/o shoes while for taller players you take w/ shoes measurement.

 

[Flopi]

But the variable is probably constant around the board, so it probably doesn't matter with or without shoes doesn't matter as long as the variable is applied equally.

I took a quick look at NBA draft combine measurements on DX.com. Shoe thickness varies between 1'' and 2'' inches. Not exactly an "equally applied variable".

 

[Big Cuz 15]

Never understood why people are obsessed with height WITH shoes.
Absolute height of one player, with or without shoes, is irrevelant.
Height value only matters when COMPARING.
So, to me, comparing heights with shoes doesn't make any sense.
Shoes add a variable. Simple math.

they got nikes with 6" soles? someone post the link to it on pizza boy's twitter account!

 

[Padrino]

they got nikes with 6" soles? someone post the link to it on pizza boy's twitter account!

i often find myself in agreement with you on many basketball-related topics, but even i have to admit that your trolling of isaiah thomas is approaching painful levels of self-parody. you might wanna ease off the gas pedal a little bit? at least until IT's fate is determined?

 

[Chubbs]

i often find myself in agreement with you on many basketball-related topics, but even i have to admit that your trolling of isaiah thomas is approaching painful levels of self-parody. you might wanna ease off the gas pedal a little bit? at least until IT's fate is determined?

Yeah, there seems to be an increasing chance IT goes no where. A little worried about how badly that could destroy team chemistry, not to mention kfs.com chemistry.

Where are the offers/rumors? Who has money left? It's an increasingly short list. Miami just signed McRoberts. Orlando signed frye.

 

[kupman]

I understand your criticism, and I agree that ALL players on this team could be better team players, that starts from the top and trickles down to the guys on minimum contracts. I love the strides Cousins made last year, but he is still QUITE FAR from being where we need him to be(if he's supposed to be our cornerstone, our Tim Duncan). Stop complaining to the refs, if you miss a shot and think you got fouled, run back on defense get a stop and go back at them(the refs will respect it and give you the next call). You are making the big bucks now, no more taking games off(period after all star snub). I like to support all our players, but when one is so overwhelmingly bashed on HERE, dissecting his every move on the court, while others get passes, it just gets me fuming. I don't have a love affair with IT, I didn't even know who he was prior to the Kings drafting him(all I knew was some undersized PG that made a game winner in the Pac 10 tourney). He won me over though with his hard work, passion for the game and competitiveness. I'm not a blind fan either, i'll be the first to call him out in the living room when he overdribbles, takes a rushed shot, or makes a lazy play on defense. He isn't perfect(like no Kings is), but he plays his heart out EVERY night, and that has earned my respect(especially on a team drowned in medicority).

Of course I love your post because I agree with you .

However, I would also like to add that I really do not get the whole "IT is who he is" perspective. The dude only completed his 3rd year in the league. Of course he has his deficits and needs to get better in areas. Why does he not get that chance in people's minds? There are many, many players who grow and mature beyond their 3rd year. Often great players have taken weaknesses and made them strengths with the very same hard work the IT has demonstrated. Many players need to grow and develop. Why are some players given that chance, while others are not in the minds of fans?

 

[Spike]

Yeah, there seems to be an increasing chance IT goes no where. A little worried about how badly that could destroy team chemistry, not to mention kfs.com chemistry.

Team chemistry will certainly be an issue. As for us, there isn't a therapist on the interwebs capable of saving us, but keeping IT certainly won't help. Not that Vivek and Company are obliged to do something for our health, but, you know, it'd be nice.

 

[Spike]

Of course I love your post because I agree with you .

However, I would also like to add that I really do not get the whole "IT is who he is" perspective. The dude only completed his 3rd year in the league. Of course he has his deficits and needs to get better in areas. Why does he not get that chance in people's minds? There are many, many players who grow and mature beyond their 3rd year. Often great players have taken weaknesses and made them strengths with the very same hard work the IT has demonstrated. Many players need to grow and develop. Why are some players given that chance, while others are not in the minds of fans?

In my mind, the very thing that brings value to IT is the very thing he needs to change. He is a scorer, and if he tries to change that then he loses value. As such, he'd be better backing up another team's true #1 PG because he won't be able to successfully alpha dog him, again, a trait that got him to this point.

On defense, physical limitations keep him from improving. For certain aspects of defense, he just can't improve.

 

[Swaze]

they got nikes with 6" soles? someone post the link to it on pizza boy's twitter account!

You know all of these constant insults of yours towards IT such as "pizza boy", "little man", "midget", "chucker", etc. really indicate a lack of class on your part. You don't have to like IT and you can acknowledge his faults, that's perfectly fine.......but you seem incapable of making a post about him without using some sort of derogatory term. Again it indicates a lack of class if not a bit of stupidity as you don't know what else to say so you resort to the same tired insults.

I highly doubt you'd have the guts to say any of these to Thomas' face.

Finally wouldn't it be ironic if Thomas leaves and Pizza Guys makes Cousins the new "Pizza Guy". You don't seem like the type of guy to think that many steps ahead so just warning you it's a possibility and it eliminates one of your all-time favorite insults.

 

[ShastaKingsFan]

That being said, I don't think height is the most important measurement.
Standing reach is. You don't get a ball in the air with the top of your head.

Totally agree. You can add their standing reach with their wingspan to really get an accurate "length" measurement. Then for "dynamic length", you could add standing vertical leap.

So for example Collison's length is 8'0.5 + 6'3: 14'3.5 Thomas is 7'7.5 + 6'1.75: 13'9.25

That's a significant difference when you're standing in front of somebody trying to defend and contest

 

[Chubbs]

Team chemistry will certainly be an issue. As for us, there isn't a therapist on the interwebs capable of saving us, but keeping IT certainly won't help. Not that Vivek and Company are obliged to do something for our health, but, you know, it'd be nice.

Seriously. It's hopeless.

I feel like the IT arguments are totally played out (now I shall add to it ). He's short, no he's not. He can play D, no he can't. Well how short is he? Just short, or really really short?

Clearly, some people (and some in the media) are convinced Isaiah is something he is not, and that's an elite starter at the PG position. He's a me first scorer, an ideal ELITE spark plug off the bench. He runs your offense for 35 mpg, you'll be at the bottom of the league in assists (credit to funkykingston for the stats), and the WORST assists per game in the sac era. Cause that's what happened folks. I don't think that can be ignored. There's an imbalance in the starting lineup that really limits the potential of this team. No stats or comparisons to Kyrie Irving or Ray McCallum is going to change what my eyes see. He's in the 3rd tier of free agents and may end up taking a short term deal cause his options have to be few at this point. Or he takes the rumored 4 for 22 deal from the kings. But 10 million per just isn't out there I don't think. He's NOT worth that. He's not that talented. He's not even in the conversation as a Kyrie Irving (please, spare the stats, NBA stats are about OPPORTUNITY, Isaiah had a green light all season due to an extremely weak guard rotation). Put this way, Lebron isn't looking at sac cause he wants to team up with IT, but he's sure listening to Cleveland.

He's certainly not worth the 8-12 million Bruski swears is the floor for his next salary. Thankfully this should be resolved soon enough and the endless bickering can stop, at least in regards to his worth.

 

[Big Cuz 15]

You know all of these constant insults of yours towards IT such as "pizza boy", "little man", "midget", "chucker", etc. really indicate a lack of class on your part. You don't have to like IT and you can acknowledge his faults, that's perfectly fine.......but you seem incapable of making a post about him without using some sort of derogatory term. Again it indicates a lack of class if not a bit of stupidity as you don't know what else to say so you resort to the same tired insults.

I highly doubt you'd have the guts to say any of these to Thomas' face.

Finally wouldn't it be ironic if Thomas leaves and Pizza Guys makes Cousins the new "Pizza Guy". You don't seem like the type of guy to think that many steps ahead so just warning you it's a possibility and it eliminates one of your all-time favorite insults.

note taken but don't care, really.

 

[pshn80]

In my mind, the very thing that brings value to IT is the very thing he needs to change. He is a scorer, and if he tries to change that then he loses value. As such, he'd be better backing up another team's true #1 PG because he won't be able to successfully alpha dog him, again, a trait that got him to this point.

On defense, physical limitations keep him from improving. For certain aspects of defense, he just can't improve.

If on offense IT improved his distribution and generalship and scored an average of 14 ppt, couldn't that be a significant improvement to team offense? I think so. So he can change for the better on offense.

 

[Big Cuz 15]

i often find myself in agreement with you on many basketball-related topics, but even i have to admit that your trolling of isaiah thomas is approaching painful levels of self-parody. you might wanna ease off the gas pedal a little bit? at least until IT's fate is determined?

For you Pad. I'll ease the pedal. I watched quite a bit of games last season only to see 4th quarter hero ball from a player who stands less than 6'1. Unbearable to watch at times.

 

[funkykingston]

You know all of these constant insults of yours towards IT such as "pizza boy", "little man", "midget", "chucker", etc. really indicate a lack of class on your part.

Isaiah Thomas has succeeded despite the odds (being the last pick in the 2nd round) and his stature. He plays with an admirable passion for the game and has shown himself to be, at the very least, a very capable scorer. I rooted for him as a King and if he ends up on another roster I'll cheer for him upon his return to Sacramento as I have done with all Kings I appreciated who came back in another uniform.

And I've never seen the need to denigrate players, let alone Kings players. And as far as I can remember I've never used any of the first three terms you mentioned to describe IT. That said, "chucker" is not an insult per se so much as it is a negative description of a player's game as are "soft", "stone hands", "ground bound", "black hole", "low Bball IQ", "lazy on D" and so on.

Thomas can be a chucker. Allen Iverson definitely was. Ed Gray out of Cal might have been the biggest chucker I've ever seen. He didn't even let the ground touch the ball most of the time. Rudy Gay in Toronto absolutely was one (which is why I have to hope his play with the Kings isn't an anomaly) and so are several other players.

Thomas wasn't Iverson. He took the third most shots on the Kings behind Cousins and Gay. And given the play of our SG and PF platoons I don't even blame IT for the number of shots he took. He was clearly the 3rd best offensive option on the team and the drop off was significant.

No, to me the issue with IT was that he dominated the ball far too much. He had it in his hands as much as guys like Rondo and Nash normally do but those guys orchestrate the offense from the PG spot whereas IT focused more on scoring. I think if IT made it a point to cross half court and immediately pass the ball it would open up the game for the Kings AND for him. He'd still get looks but the play of the team would be less selfish. And again that's not all on Thomas' shoulders but he contributed to it.

I had the same problem with Tyreke honestly. If Evans was going to play PG (the position I think is still best for him) then he needed to learn to move the ball much more often knowing that he could get it back and attack the defense if need be.

If the Kings really want to have a more efficient offensive system then it starts with guys willing to share the ball and just as importantly it features guys that can finish plays. Malone had a full season to try and change Thomas' style to be more in line with what he wanted from him and either the coach isn't up to the task or Thomas was unwilling to change. Either way it means that for Malone to get the team where he wants it to be IT either needs to move on or have a different role than starting PG and primary ball handler.

And I don't see that as an insult to Thomas.

 

[whozit]

rainmaker said: ↑
I’m ready for it. Like I said, I just want to go somewhere where I’m wanted. Where I’m wanted for being 5-9 and I’m wanted for being a scoring point guard. That’s all I want. - Isaiah

“Isaiah’s got to be an extension of me on the court,” Malone said. “He’s got to make sure he’s getting guys looks, know what plays to call, now what matchups he’s going to exploit and how to get those guys going where they’re most effective, and that’s part of his maturation of going from being a scoring guard off the bench to being a playmaking guard.” - Malone

Wow. Good job putting those quotes together. I forgot about that Malone quote. This says it all. The Kings wanted IT to play a certain way and it appears as though he's refused and was even offended they asked. How can someone argue to keep IT with that staring you in the face. He's not trying to buy in to what the Kings want to build. Has nothing to do with talent.

Wasn't that second quote right after Isaiah had gone from coming off the bench to the starting role? If I'm remembering correct that was shortly after Malone had wanted him as a spark plug and to be aggressive off the bench. And no, I don't think he successfully made the transition from one role to the other (from one he was perfect fit IMHO for to one he wasn't)

The first quote was from an interview in terms of free agency. Totally different context.

 

[Albatros]

Yeah, there seems to be an increasing chance IT goes no where. A little worried about how badly that could destroy team chemistry, not to mention kfs.com chemistry.

Where are the offers/rumors? Who has money left? It's an increasingly short list. Miami just signed McRoberts. Orlando signed frye.

He'll get his offers after the big names drop off, no one wants to commit until the LBJ Melo drama is confirmed.

 

[pshn80]

Isaiah Thomas has succeeded despite the odds (being the last pick in the 2nd round) and his stature. He plays with an admirable passion for the game and has shown himself to be, at the very least, a very capable scorer. I rooted for him as a King and if he ends up on another roster I'll cheer for him upon his return to Sacramento as I have done with all Kings I appreciated who came back in another uniform.

And I've never seen the need to denigrate players, let alone Kings players. And as far as I can remember I've never used any of the first three terms you mentioned to describe IT. That said, "chucker" is not an insult per se so much as it is a negative description of a player's game as are "soft", "stone hands", "ground bound", "black hole", "low Bball IQ", "lazy on D" and so on.

Thomas can be a chucker. Allen Iverson definitely was. Ed Gray out of Cal might have been the biggest chucker I've ever seen. He didn't even let the ground touch the ball most of the time. Rudy Gay in Toronto absolutely was one (which is why I have to hope his play with the Kings isn't an anomaly) and so are several other players.

Thomas wasn't Iverson. He took the third most shots on the Kings behind Cousins and Gay. And given the play of our SG and PF platoons I don't even blame IT for the number of shots he took. He was clearly the 3rd best offensive option on the team and the drop off was significant.

No, to me the issue with IT was that he dominated the ball far too much. He had it in his hands as much as guys like Rondo and Nash normally do but those guys orchestrate the offense from the PG spot whereas IT focused more on scoring. I think if IT made it a point to cross half court and immediately pass the ball it would open up the game for the Kings AND for him. He'd still get looks but the play of the team would be less selfish. And again that's not all on Thomas' shoulders but he contributed to it.

I had the same problem with Tyreke honestly. If Evans was going to play PG (the position I think is still best for him honestly) then he needed to learn to move the ball much more often knowing that he could get it back and attack the defense if need be.

If the Kings really want to have a more efficient offensive system then it starts with guys willing to share the ball and just as importantly it features guys that can finish plays. Malone had a full season to try and change Thomas' style to be more in line with what he wanted from him and either the coach isn't up to the task or Thomas was unwilling to change. Either way it means that for Malone to get the team where he wants it to be IT either needs to move on or have a different role than starting PG and primary ball handler.

And I don't see that as an insult to Thomas.

Wonderfully stated and reflective of my views. I would make a signicant change to your second to last sentence. You say "...... IT either needs to move on or have a different role than starting PG and primary ballhandlder." I would add ...... " or improve his ability to distribute the ball, set people up and be a better floor general."

I think that is possible for IT and Malone to accomplish.

 

[Livinthedream]

Wasn't that second quote right after Isaiah had gone from coming off the bench to the starting role? If I'm remembering correct that was shortly after Malone had wanted him as a spark plug and to be aggressive off the bench. And no, I don't think he successfully made the transition from one role to the other (from one he was perfect fit IMHO for to one he wasn't)

The first quote was from an interview in terms of free agency. Totally different context.

Malone is stating what he wants out of IT. After season is done, IT is stating he just wants to be a scoring guard. Both quotes relate to Thomas' role as a PG. Differing views. Completely related in that context.

If ITs quote had come first, no big deal. But it's even more damning in my eyes that he went through the whole season with a new coach and his approach/perspective didn't change. For all the grief Cousins has been given, it appears Cousins bought in. IT didn't. Both are young players and it seemed like Cousins had a farther journey to travel to do what this staff wanted, yet he made the leap.