Interesting article on Walton's coaching ability:

bajaden

Hall of Famer
#1
I have no idea whether this article has been posted previously or not, and if so, then it can be taken down. But if not, it's a brutally honest appraisal of Luke Walton's coaching ability by Premium Hoops. It's a long article with plenty of visual breakdowns. I won't give my opinion one way or the other right now so as not to influence you one way or the other.

https://premiumhoops.org/2020/08/17...-and-how-they-hold-the-sacramento-kings-back/
 
#2
I have no idea whether this article has been posted previously or not, and if so, then it can be taken down. But if not, it's a brutally honest appraisal of Luke Walton's coaching ability by Premium Hoops. It's a long article with plenty of visual breakdowns. I won't give my opinion one way or the other right now so as not to influence you one way or the other.

https://premiumhoops.org/2020/08/17...-and-how-they-hold-the-sacramento-kings-back/
Not exactly a strong endorsement.
 
#3
I have no idea whether this article has been posted previously or not, and if so, then it can be taken down. But if not, it's a brutally honest appraisal of Luke Walton's coaching ability by Premium Hoops. It's a long article with plenty of visual breakdowns. I won't give my opinion one way or the other right now so as not to influence you one way or the other.

https://premiumhoops.org/2020/08/17...-and-how-they-hold-the-sacramento-kings-back/
It hadn't and the part I read was great. I stopped before it got to the "bad" (according to the author) part.
 

Tetsujin

The Game Thread Dude
#9
In addition to the bleak outlook for this team, article also makes the case well for Joerger. The ability to completely change his philosophy and implement a successful system based on the roster handed to him is the sign of a great coach. Hope he finds a good home the way Malone did.
To be fair, the question about Joerger has never been about his coaching ability but rather about him appearing to be a massive pain in the ass to work with.
 
#10
Whatever happens now he's finished.

Giving him a lame duck year or even half a year can only be an exercise in allowing Vivek to pay off less than he might have to otherwise.

Tbh im not a huge fan of the run run run game it can only get you so far.
 
#11
In addition to the bleak outlook for this team, article also makes the case well for Joerger. The ability to completely change his philosophy and implement a successful system based on the roster handed to him is the sign of a great coach. Hope he finds a good home the way Malone did.
Yes, Joeger ran the hell out of the team in his 3rd year, which did have some good success early in the season. But people seem to forget the second half of the year, when the Kings fell apart in the 2nd half. A quick nosedive to the finish line.

Also, not to mention that Joeger took his first two years trying to "teach" this team to play in a slow down, half court offense and we all saw the team sputter. During the first 2 years, he played "slow down bball" and ZBo was the MVP of his 2nd season as coach. People seem to give Joeger a pass now for his "slow down" play and the team looked bad doing it too.

IMHO, running the heck and pace is great fun to watch and I would say it's the easiest way to make a coach look good. You push the tempo and score a lot of points. But, over time of a full season, those legs start to get heavy and that frantic pace is not sustainable through the playoffs. You need to be able to slow it down and have a good half court offense to reach the playoffs and make an impact.

BTW, Walton won more games than both Malone and Joeger in their first season, and they both had an All-NBA Center star in DMC in his prime. Walton also eclipsed Joeger's win total in year 2. And Walton did it in 10 less games than both Malone and Joeger.

I'm not saying that Walton will all of the sudden become Pat Riley or Poppovich, but I'm open to giving him one more year to implement his game plan. He may be trying to teach this team a new offense now, because the playoffs become a half court game.

I'm open to giving Walton one more season to implement his game plan and see if we see improvement. Before the lock down, the Kings went 13-7 and were looking pretty darn good. If there were no lockdown, the Kings would had been the mix for the 8th seed and he would had gotten close to the 39 wins Joeger got last year. You can't always judge a coach on the first year taking over a team. Giving him one more year gives the players some stability and familiarity. If he falters next year, then by all means, find a new coach. But, some patience may pay off in the end.
 
#13
I posted some links in another thread about some of Waltons sets for Buddy that a really awesome youtube channel put up. They also have other play sets from other teams. One being the Sixers who in many ways run some of the same horn type sets. Interesting how both teams are getting left behind in a league built on spreading and shooting. At least with the Sixers I can kind of see it being a fit since they have Horford and Embiid. With the Kings it makes no sense. None.
 
#14
The pedestal that Yogurt gets for half a season of fun basketball is absurd.
And also they neglect the fact that he lost his team which sometimes just happens. When it does it's almost impossible to fix because you'll never earn that trust back from your players. Players by nature are coddled and entitled. Is what it is and it was one too many years in. Also his reluctance to run pick and roll was never going to work. At least the sets Walton runs is predicated on keeping the free throw line somewhat free.
 
#15
And BTW the article is WRONG on a lot of points. Those numbers aren't at all what they appear to be. They didn't run many 5 out sets at all and when Walton did it was like pulling teeth or as a last resort late in the clock. Also, Fox's breakout games always correlated the way they should have, with an open paint. I logged some of the possessions that resulted in many of the problems in real time in the game threads within the bubble. Also his reluctance on putting shooting as a priority when spreading was what was most frustrating. Like benching a Buddy Hield in favor of a Cory Joseph and watching Luka dump Wilt numbers all over him anyway. Walton would typically run senseless motion and as Joerger did, even some completely embarrassing weave style hand off ball like his predecessor.
 
#16
To be fair, the question about Joerger has never been about his coaching ability but rather about him appearing to be a massive pain in the ass to work with.
I don’t buy it. Didn’t Vince Carter and Z-Bo come to Sacramento to keep playing for him? Two dudes paid as much as they’ll ever be, no need to stick around, come out to Sactown for a guy who’s impossible to work for?
 
#19
The pedestal that Yogurt gets for half a season of fun basketball is absurd.
On the contrary, it seems 90% of the board has fallen for Kings anti-Joerger PR hook, line and sinker. Nobody is saying he was the saviour but a minority of posters here acknowledge that he was the best coach we had since Malone and had us on the right trajectory.

The rewriting of history by some, of the idea that Joerger had to be axed as small ball doesn't work in the playoffs (mostly true), blatantly ignores that Joerger was pushed into this style but Vivek and Vlade in their attempt to copycat GS. And did a better job than most expected.

I won't even get into the part where he was 100% right on the draft, which probably would have saved Vlades job if he had listened to him.

There is certainly an absurd side to the Joerger discussion, but it's not coming from the people claiming he was a good coach. I can already pre-empt the retort of "why doesn't he have a job then?". He'll have a job at some point again. I recall him saying after he was canned that he was going to take time out of basketball to be on his farm (possibly still in Sacramento).
 

Tetsujin

The Game Thread Dude
#20
Who other than Brandon “let’s pass on Luka Doncic” Williams?
Vlade Divac, the entire Memphis Grizzlies Grit’n’Grind front office. The reason he got booted out of his last two gigs had less to do with his coaching and more to do with his wanting to be both coach AND GM.
 
#21
Is DJ a better coach than Walton? It would seem so. Was it time for DJ to go? I think so. He seemed to hace worn out his welcome here the same way he did in Memphis. Was Luke the right replacement for DJ? I don't think so. His offense underwhelms. Will I support Luke if he's still here next year? Sure - maybe this year was the first layer of his coaching genius and next year will be the second and third layers (doubtful but hey, show us something). Let's see what happens though...
 
#22
Is DJ a better coach than Walton? It would seem so. Was it time for DJ to go? I think so. He seemed to hace worn out his welcome here the same way he did in Memphis. Was Luke the right replacement for DJ? I don't think so. His offense underwhelms. Will I support Luke if he's still here next year? Sure - maybe this year was the first layer of his coaching genius and next year will be the second and third layers (doubtful but hey, show us something). Let's see what happens though...
They are/were different in some ways. Joerger was maybe too much mean mugging, Walton too much stone face. For the roster I think Walton is a tad bit better TBH. In the end though, they were too similar. Far too similar. Motion based coaches at their heart with the wrong team in hand. Look at the offensive % part of that article. Not really a world of difference in ANY category.



That's a team trying to play middle of the road ball and be good at everything when they are more of a team that could be elite in a few select areas. The only number that trended up in a somewhat meaningful way was what this team should be ELITE at and that spot shots. 30th is laughable and 16th is about 13 down from where they should be considering the drive and dish potential a De'Aaron Fox has, the catch and shoot ability of a Buddy Hield, and the amount of shooting the team has at almost every position. The Kings averaged 22 spots a game and finished 6th in PPP, 5th in FG%, 5th in score frequency, and 6th in percentile when it came to spot shots. Yet they were middle of the road in attempts. Part of that positivity is certainly illustrated in the success Walton saw with smallball lineups and why the self destruction was so evident the more he attempted to run away from that and play traditional lineups instead. That in a nutshell summarizes Waltons downfall and is too concerning to overlook. His overthinking his way away from what works either reeks of stubborness or a lack of confidence. Both not good when your team is tuning out. In the bubble he didn't just do it game to game but within some individual games. That was one of those last straw types of declines in game time decision making.
 
#23
Vlade Divac, the entire Memphis Grizzlies Grit’n’Grind front office. The reason he got booted out of his last two gigs had less to do with his coaching and more to do with his wanting to be both coach AND GM.
Not what I heard. In Memphis, Joerger was not extended and coached the year the lame duck year. In Sac, my understanding is that his agent insisted that he get extended before his lame duck year. The Kings chose differently.

Did Vlade have an inside track that Luke would soon become available? I would think, Of course.
 
#24
The pedestal that Yogurt gets for half a season of fun basketball is absurd.
It has been soooooo long since we have watched any competitive Kings basketball. Since Adelman last coached in 06 Kings Basketball has been a vast wasteland. There was a little glimmer of defensive intensity when Malone had DMC, Rudy and IT led team doing it, but alas Boogie got sick and Malone was sacked by Vivek.Gerbil. Then there was that half season of Joerger.

Kings Fans deserve a serious search for a GM and Coach. I hope we get it and they click.

And the Kings house needs to be completely cleared of personnel attached to the old ways of losing. IMO no one should be safe.
 
#25
I combed through the article. It was good. A few nagging thoughts: why does it work for GSW, the article failed to address counters--what happens when the first, designed play collapses? Then I remembered a John Wooden belief that even if you're the best coach in the world, you can't win without good players.
 
#26
If we’re doing to relitigate Joerger, it wasn’t just the front office, he definitely rubbed some of the players the wrong way. In his most recent podcast, Jason Jones said multiple players complained to Vlade about Joerger, and may have felt too comfortable once the team fired him. Jones didn’t name names. This was the first I had heard about this, although I wasnt surprised given the deafening silence from the players after the firing. And to me, it makes Joerger, the front office, and the players all look bad.
 
#27
It has been soooooo long since we have watched any competitive Kings basketball. Since Adelman last coached in 06 Kings Basketball has been a vast wasteland. There was a little glimmer of defensive intensity when Malone had DMC, Rudy and IT led team doing it, but alas Boogie got sick and Malone was sacked by Vivek.Gerbil. Then there was that half season of Joerger.

Kings Fans deserve a serious search for a GM and Coach. I hope we get it and they click.

And the Kings house needs to be completely cleared of personnel attached to the old ways of losing. IMO no one should be safe.
And, please, the training and medical staff can’t be safe, either.
 
#28
If we’re doing to relitigate Joerger, it wasn’t just the front office, he definitely rubbed some of the players the wrong way. In his most recent podcast, Jason Jones said multiple players complained to Vlade about Joerger, and may have felt too comfortable once the team fired him. Jones didn’t name names. This was the first I had heard about this, although I wasnt surprised given the deafening silence from the players after the firing. And to me, it makes Joerger, the front office, and the players all look bad.
Jason also said that Vlade lent his ear to several players who Jason said really weren’t in a position to have that much say in Joerger’s coaching style. My take on this is Vlade catered to the players who comes across as not wanting to be coached hard. Joerger made guys earn minutes. The front office was backing players Wanting to see rookies and young guys get more minutes. For me, the front office undermined Joerger. How does a coach not be pissed about that? And quite honestly, the players as a whole don’t seem to respond to anything. My perception is they are mentally soft. And now they got Walton who doesn’t prepare them. They got what they asked for, a softer coach.
 
#29
I combed through the article. It was good. A few nagging thoughts: why does it work for GSW, the article failed to address counters--what happens when the first, designed play collapses? Then I remembered a John Wooden belief that even if you're the best coach in the world, you can't win without good players.
The Warriors have a completely different team. Having a Steph Curry leading your team is totally different than a De'Aaron Fox. With Fox spacing around him is critical. He's going to rely on slashing more so that means you need to really get on it and not waste any clock. That's why I think a Nash Suns style system is key. Taking shots early in the clock, or at least getting that initial play running early is everything. With Curry you can simply run a little screen and he's going to jack up a 3 which can be done in like 1 second. Fox has to have time to look for seams, and be able to pull the ball back out if need be. This is why Buddy was so heavily relied upon in the post option and extended horns type set. Buddy was far too often unnecessarily put in a position to bail out the team later in the clock because it was the only quick hitting play they could rely on.

Also personnel is huge. The Warriors have a Draymond Green who can run their motion offense from the front court. The Kings have pick and roll bigs, or a potential iso star in Bagley. Totally different. The Warriors also prioritize shooting. Walton does not. You don't play Fox and Joseph together if you do. The proof is in that pudding. In the end, theoretically the Kings will be much more effective on fewer passes in the half court. Too many plays start with handing off to a big, handing back off to the PG/SG, then running someone through the paint to re-balance the floor. Too many possessions started with 10 seconds or less on the clock. How many times did we complain about the team walking the ball up and DC complaining through the TV about them not pressuring the ball on defense? With Fox your identity has to be based on pressuring both sides of the court. Bagley should help the teams ability to manufacture points in the half court but again, his best usage is still going to be pick and roll and iso faceup plays. Joerger attempted to his him in the horns last year and it was a joke. A total joke for him and Fox.