Iggy and Reke?

Rain man

Starter
A lot of people are suggesting that brining in PDA means that we are poised to make a run at Iggy, and that a core of Iggy, Reke, and Demarcus could be the start of something really big. My question is whether Reke and Iggy could coexist, and if so, does it make sense to pair them?

Pros:

Perimeter defense. We would suddenly have two plus level perimeter defenders with good length and defensive instincts. An Iggy/Reke pairing on the wings would be welcomed by Malone's defense first approach, and would help cover (at least temporarily) for the lack of shot-blocking presence behind them.

To be determined:

Ball sharing. I actually think Iggy and Reke bring slightly different skill sets to the table, such that they could coexist offensively. Iggy is much more of a play-maker (sort of a point-forward) and Reke a slasher. The potential problem, however, is that they are both very ball dominant. I suppose it could work if you clearly define their roles on the court, and you also stagger their minutes so that they both get time when they are the only one on the court. That is something I would no have trusted Smart to do, but something I have faith Malone could work out.

Cons:

Shooting. I have long thought that the way to make Reke work at SG was to have one plus shooter and one exceptional shooter at the PG and SF positions in order to make up for Reke's lack of scoring from the outside. Iggy is certainly not a plus outside shooter. He is, at best, an equal outside shooter to Reke. That puts the onus on finding a PG who is a lights out shooter, but (as to the point above) is not ball dominant and can survive in a "stretch the floor, hit open threes role."

That PG is not currently on the roster. IT is too ball dominant to pair with Reke and Iggy. TD is too poor of a shooter, especially as the only outside shooter. Drafting Carter Williams adds an even worse shooter to the mix, and Burke seems like an IT clone in terms of ball dominance. Jimmer is an interesting thought, especially with Reke and Iggy cleaning up his defensive mistakes, and Iggy initiating the offense (Jimmer could basically be a 30 minute a game spot up shooter at the PG position), but I don't know if he is ready to provide the night in, night out consistency of that role. Plus, with DMC on the block, and Iggy and Reke scoring best in the paint, is one stretch shooter enough to space the floor (even if he is lights out)?

One other possibility is to start PPat, thus giving you stretch shooting at the 1 and 4 position. That certainly helps (and brings back memories of the Bonzi/Artest bump and thump days when the post play was provided by our wings and the floor stretching by our big man), but is not a long term solution (ideally the long term plan is to get a defensive big alongside Cousins).

So the real question - assuming a long term starting lineup of DMC, a defensive 4, Iggy, and Reke - is if you could ever get enough shooting in the lineup, even with a non-ball dominant, lights out shooting 1 on the roster?
 
A lot of people are suggesting that brining in PDA means that we are poised to make a run at Iggy, and that a core of Iggy, Reke, and Demarcus could be the start of something really big. My question is whether Reke and Iggy could coexist, and if so, does it make sense to pair them?

Pros:

Perimeter defense. We would suddenly have two plus level perimeter defenders with good length and defensive instincts. An Iggy/Reke pairing on the wings would be welcomed by Malone's defense first approach, and would help cover (at least temporarily) for the lack of shot-blocking presence behind them.

To be determined:

Ball sharing. I actually think Iggy and Reke bring slightly different skill sets to the table, such that they could coexist offensively. Iggy is much more of a play-maker (sort of a point-forward) and Reke a slasher. The potential problem, however, is that they are both very ball dominant. I suppose it could work if you clearly define their roles on the court, and you also stagger their minutes so that they both get time when they are the only one on the court. That is something I would no have trusted Smart to do, but something I have faith Malone could work out.

Cons:

Shooting. I have long thought that the way to make Reke work at SG was to have one plus shooter and one exceptional shooter at the PG and SF positions in order to make up for Reke's lack of scoring from the outside. Iggy is certainly not a plus outside shooter. He is, at best, an equal outside shooter to Reke. That puts the onus on finding a PG who is a lights out shooter, but (as to the point above) is not ball dominant and can survive in a "stretch the floor, hit open threes role."

That PG is not currently on the roster. IT is too ball dominant to pair with Reke and Iggy. TD is too poor of a shooter, especially as the only outside shooter. Drafting Carter Williams adds an even worse shooter to the mix, and Burke seems like an IT clone in terms of ball dominance. Jimmer is an interesting thought, especially with Reke and Iggy cleaning up his defensive mistakes, and Iggy initiating the offense (Jimmer could basically be a 30 minute a game spot up shooter at the PG position), but I don't know if he is ready to provide the night in, night out consistency of that role. Plus, with DMC on the block, and Iggy and Reke scoring best in the paint, is one stretch shooter enough to space the floor (even if he is lights out)?

One other possibility is to start PPat, thus giving you stretch shooting at the 1 and 4 position. That certainly helps (and brings back memories of the Bonzi/Artest bump and thump days when the post play was provided by our wings and the floor stretching by our big man), but is not a long term solution (ideally the long term plan is to get a defensive big alongside Cousins).

So the real question - assuming a long term starting lineup of DMC, a defensive 4, Iggy, and Reke - is if you could ever get enough shooting in the lineup, even with a non-ball dominant, lights out shooting 1 on the roster?

you would have to have shooting at 1/4 to spread the floor for dmc/reke to operate.

cousins ppat iggy reke jimmer would work. jimmer would guard the weakest link on the other team
 
imo Iggy is a guy you have to surround with two guys who can shoot, like Peja and Bibby.
 
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Here's all I have to say to those who don't think that structure has big time potential:

TAllen & Prince
Stephensen & George
Wade & LeBron

3 of the 4 final SG/SF pairings left standing in the playoffs. There's a little shooting scattered in there, but that's a group far more typified by physicality, rim attacks and defense then it is by shooting, Turns out if the other team can't score on you, its hard to actually lose a game.
 
I'm not totally against signing Iggy. He would instantly bring everything we need in terms of intangibles: playoff experience, professionalism, defensive and role playing attitude. He is one of the few semi-available guys in the league who would provide and instant boost to the cultural change Malone has envisioned. (Another one of these guys? Andrei Kirilenko)

But if we keep Tyreke and both start the spacing issues would be huge and teams would make life hell for Cuz, like the Spurs did with Randolph in the playoffs.
It would take some creative coaching to overcome the lack of shooting but I don't think it's impossible. I'm just not sold on having Jimmer and Patterson on the starting five, what's the point of adding a great defender like Iggy despite the poor offensive fit if you aren't fully committed to playing elite D? We'd still need a shotblocker with brains and a point guard willing and able to fight through screens and defend the pick'n'roll.

Here's all I have to say to those who don't think that structure has big time potential:

TAllen & Prince
Stephensen & George
Wade & LeBron

3 of the 4 final SG/SF pairings left standing in the playoffs. There's a little shooting scattered in there, but that's a group far more typified by physicality, rim attacks and defense then it is by shooting, Turns out if the other team can't score on you, its hard to actually lose a game.

Allen and Prince got their minutes together cut significantly in the playoff to the benefit of Pondexter. Miami made sure to surround Lebron and Wade with great shooters to balance things out. Indiana on the other hand is a great comparison and the team building model we should go after: great size and great defense at every position, no chuckers, no traditional point guard and a shotblocker-scorer pairing in the frontcourt.

I'm not saying we wouldn't be better of with Iggy, we would we worlds better but come playoff time things won't be rosy.
 
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Too bad that it is impossible to happen financially.
Reke, Thornton, Iggy, JT, Cus with IT, Fish, Ppat, 7th pick on the bench would be a solid team next season.
 
Why can't it be done financially? If we can sign Iggy, I thought we could sign Tyreke because of Bird rights. I'm not up on the present CBA but has it changed that much?
 
Here's all I have to say to those who don't think that structure has big time potential:

TAllen & Prince
Stephensen & George
Wade & LeBron

3 of the 4 final SG/SF pairings left standing in the playoffs. There's a little shooting scattered in there, but that's a group far more typified by physicality, rim attacks and defense then it is by shooting, Turns out if the other team can't score on you, its hard to actually lose a game.

I agree with you. If Iggy is willing to come here, for a reasonable price (12/yr should be the max) I think we should not even think about it and sign him as soon as we can. He is a leader, has a winning mentality, great defender, all star and playoff experience, great worker and a true pro. He is not a great shooter (even if defenders have to respect his shot), but who cares? He would be the best FA we could get, we won't be able to sign "the perfect" player.

I know that people will always try to find negative aspects for each player that we'll target. I remember last year when there was a rumor about a possible trade between the Kings and Spurs regarding our 5th pick for Tony Parker, people around here were saying he was too old, on a bad contract, and that he was the wrong player to put next to Tyreke. I mean, Tony Parker... So, if there's only a small chance Iggy would consider us, we should just do our best to get him and we'll be a much better team.
 
Why can't it be done financially? If we can sign Iggy, I thought we could sign Tyreke because of Bird rights. I'm not up on the present CBA but has it changed that much?

I am not expert in those matters either, but certain Captain posted something here http://www.kingsfans.com/forums/sho...p-space-each-team-has-HINT-We-have-none/page3 that left the impression to me that we will have to renounce Reke's cap hold to play in free market arena (even then with about 13 mil max contract to play).
 
I think everyone is in agreement that our defense would be very good with these two on the perimeter. The question arises in terms of offensive fit. I personally think it could work. There have been very successful pairings that have had worse outside shooting. Brick laid it out nicely in his post. What we saw from Evans this year is his ability to knock down spot-up three pointers. He was very consistent when he was left open and his feet were set. Iguodala is a decent shooter when his feet are set as well. If you add another good three point shooter on the perimeter, I think we would be just fine in terms of floor spacing.

One thing that intrigues me the most about having Evans and Iguodala on the team is the flexibility they would bring. We could look for a PG, SG, or SF to put next to them. We don't have to limit ourselves by looking at only one position to find the right fit next to Evans and Igoudala (For example, Chalmers, Oladipo, and Batum would all fit in just fine with that pairing).

If I had a preference, I would play Evans at PG and Iguodala at SG. Their size, strength, length, and athleticism would cause havoc for any team. I know we have been looking for a SF for awhile, but if we're able to grab a starting caliber SF, I think it would be best to push Iguodala back to SG where he would be most effective.
 
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I agree with you. If Iggy is willing to come here, for a reasonable price (12/yr should be the max) I think we should not even think about it and sign him as soon as we can. He is a leader, has a winning mentality, great defender, all star and playoff experience, great worker and a true pro. He is not a great shooter (even if defenders have to respect his shot), but who cares? He would be the best FA we could get, we won't be able to sign "the perfect" player.

I know that people will always try to find negative aspects for each player that we'll target. I remember last year when there was a rumor about a possible trade between the Kings and Spurs regarding our 5th pick for Tony Parker, people around here were saying he was too old, on a bad contract, and that he was the wrong player to put next to Tyreke. I mean, Tony Parker... So, if there's only a small chance Iggy would consider us, we should just do our best to get him and we'll be a much better team.

Iggy just left 16 mil guaranteed for next season.
4 years x 12 =48 mil
Accepting that offer would mean that he estimated he would not be able to catch 32mil/3 year contract next offseason. Does not sound right.
Counting 14+ mil per year is more like what he expects. We will see if he will get it.
 
Iggy just left 16 mil guaranteed for next season.
4 years x 12 =48 mil
Accepting that offer would mean that he estimated he would not be able to catch 32mil/3 year contract next offseason. Does not sound right.
Counting 14+ mil per year is more like what he expects. We will see if he will get it.

What he wants could be different from what he'll get. And then I'm pretty sure he left the 16 million option because he wants to get a longer contract. He's 29, so this will be the last big contract of his career. What would you do if you were him. Get the 16 million, and then hope you don't get injured next season, or opt-out and sign a 48/4yrs deal? I would take the 48/4yrs for sure if I had the chance.
 
What he wants could be different from what he'll get. And then I'm pretty sure he left the 16 million option because he wants to get a longer contract. He's 29, so this will be the last big contract of his career. What would you do if you were him. Get the 16 million, and then hope you don't get injured next season, or opt-out and sign a 48/4yrs deal? I would take the 48/4yrs for sure if I had the chance.

He could play out his last year at $16 mill, but the risk is getting hurt or having a bad year that reduces what he will get at 30 years old. So it's better for him to opt out now and get a 4 year deal or 5 years from the Nuggets for less per year, but more money over the life of the contract.
 
I am not expert in those matters either, but certain Captain posted something here http://www.kingsfans.com/forums/sho...p-space-each-team-has-HINT-We-have-none/page3 that left the impression to me that we will have to renounce Reke's cap hold to play in free market arena (even then with about 13 mil max contract to play).

We would have to amnesty Salmons or renounce Evans depending on the contract numbers to sign Iggy.

Then also consider is it better to keep Salmons for one more year at $7 mil or if Evans wants a big deal at say 4 years starting at $11-12 mil.
 
Here's all I have to say to those who don't think that structure has big time potential:

TAllen & Prince
Stephensen & George
Wade & LeBron

3 of the 4 final SG/SF pairings left standing in the playoffs. There's a little shooting scattered in there, but that's a group far more typified by physicality, rim attacks and defense then it is by shooting, Turns out if the other team can't score on you, its hard to actually lose a game.

Memphis had huge offensive problems related to floor spacing. George-Stephenson is excellent spacing. LeBron has also become one of the best jump-shooters in the NBA and those guys are hardly ever without 2 elite floor spacers on the floor with them on the floor (Chalmers, Allen, Miller, etc).

Floor spacing is one of the most underrated aspects of offense from many teams. No coincidence the Spurs and Heat are flooded with elite 3pt shooting to go along with their stars
 
He could play out his last year at $16 mill, but the risk is getting hurt or having a bad year that reduces what he will get at 30 years old. So it's better for him to opt out now and get a 4 year deal or 5 years from the Nuggets for less per year, but more money over the life of the contract.

Exactly.
 
Risk of getting hurt is always valid.
I do not think having bad year would reduce his value. He has been around for a while, and as consistent as one can be. Nothing to prove (except whether he can catch up with Shaq with free throws %).

It is possible that he is willing to give up 6-7 mil to avoid the risk (difference between 16 mil and salary he would have 5 years from now when potential 4/48 this season deal expires).
With only 2 folks ahead of him on pecking order (CP and Dwight), and several teams royally under the cap I would be surprised if 12 mil is enough.
Either way, doubt Kings are in play here unless Reke is gone.

We will soon find out :-)
 
We would have to amnesty Salmons or renounce Evans depending on the contract numbers to sign Iggy.

Then also consider is it better to keep Salmons for one more year at $7 mil or if Evans wants a big deal at say 4 years starting at $11-12 mil.

That might be interesting if amnestying Salmons frees ~13Mil for Kings to pursue Free Agents without renouncing Reke's cap hold.
 
I am not expert in those matters either, but certain Captain posted something here http://www.kingsfans.com/forums/sho...p-space-each-team-has-HINT-We-have-none/page3 that left the impression to me that we will have to renounce Reke's cap hold to play in free market arena (even then with about 13 mil max contract to play).

What I got out of that is that we can't sign any free agents if we want to keep Tyreke. It is more complicated than that because of MLE's and vet minimums but that's the way it seems. I'd rather have Iggy than Tyreke if that's what it boils down to. That assumes a reasonable salary for Iggy. Don't ask me what "reasonable" is because I don't know. We might get a PDA discount. :) MT could be our starting SG. In essence, we get punished by keeping our own player and that goes against the original intent of the CBA a decade ago. Maybe PDA can figure it out and at this point, when it may come to a choice between Tyreke and Iggy, I'll trust PDA. All the way. It just sucks that Miami can load up on stars and we can't.

Certainly amnestying Salmons makes life easier for us and if we are pursuing Iggy, we don't need Salmons for anything. It's complicated.

It seems like most people are assuming that Iggy and Tyreke can fit on the same team. This is difficult for me to discuss unless this CBA issue is resolved in my mind. If it can't be done, why are we discussing it?
 
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Memphis had huge offensive problems related to floor spacing. George-Stephenson is excellent spacing. LeBron has also become one of the best jump-shooters in the NBA and those guys are hardly ever without 2 elite floor spacers on the floor with them on the floor (Chalmers, Allen, Miller, etc).

Floor spacing is one of the most underrated aspects of offense from many teams. No coincidence the Spurs and Heat are flooded with elite 3pt shooting to go along with their stars

We should have such huge problems as losing in the Conference Finals. Something we've only reached one time in Sacto era history.

Its obviously the weakness of the structure, but its just as obvious the strengths of it can outweigh those weaknesses and make you an elite team.

"Elite team with spacing issues" trumps any other description you can come up with that does not include "Elite team".

And of course as you mentioned, you make up for it with the other guys. When Memphis's other guys failed, so did they. Conley shot .281 from 3pt land in the playoffs. Not going to get it done. Guys like Bayless are not big time players and should never be asked to come through. Miami surrounds its guys with 40% three point shooters. George Hill and Augustin supply supplemental threes for the Pacers. And the beauty of a pairing of guys like Reke and Iggy is that they can do all your ballhandling for you, so you don't need to find a PG who both shoots and creates. Significant just because it makes it much easier to come up with a Mario Chalmers or George Hill level guy there than if you are having to look for Steve Nash.

Mario Chalmers is under contract, but just for example if you signed Iggy and traded for Chalmers and had this as your structure:

SF- Iggy
SG- Reke
PG- Chalmers
-----
PG- IT
SG/SF- somebody who can shoot

Your spacing would really be fine. No worse than the top contenders this season have been surviving with. Heck people forget that Denver itself had 2 of its 3 guards as Iggy and Miller.
 
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Thing is there's no place for a PG on a team with Cousins, Evans and Iggy, so you can plug prolific shooter of any size that is adequate on D like say Martell Webster as your PG.
 
We should have such huge problems as losing in the Conference Finals. Something we've only reached one time in Sacto era history.

Its obviously the weakness of the structure, but its just as obvious the strengths of it can outweigh those weaknesses and make you an elite team.

"Elite team with spacing issues" trumps any other description you can come up with that does not include "Elite team".

And of course as you mentioned, you make up for it with the other guys. When Memphis's other guys failed, so did they. Conley shot .281 from 3pt land in the playoffs. Not going to get it done. Guys like Bayless are not big time players and should never be asked to come through. Miami surrounds its guys with 40% three point shooters. George Hill and Augustin supply supplemental threes for the Pacers. And the beauty of a pairing of guys like Reke and Iggy is that they can do all your ballhandling for you, so you don't need to find a PG who both shoots and creates. Significant just because it makes it much easier to come up with a Mario Chalmers or George Hill level guy there than if you are having to look for Steve Nash.

Mario Chalmers is under contract, but just for example if you signed Iggy and traded for Chalmers and had this as your structure:

SF- Iggy
SG- Reke
PG- Chalmers
-----
PG- IT
SG/SF- somebody who can shoot

Your spacing would really be fine. No worse than the top contenders this season have been surviving with. Heck people forget that Denver itself had 2 of its 3 guards as Iggy and Miller.

Oh, I'm not disagreeing against the Iggy-Reke-Cousins trio. I think it could def work and would be a baby version of what Miami currently has. If that's what we're going to roll with though, assuming we go get a defensive Frontcourt big with Cousins, the next step would be to go acquire some lights out shooters. Korver, Calderon, Chalmers, etc.
 
Why can't it be done financially? If we can sign Iggy, I thought we could sign Tyreke because of Bird rights. I'm not up on the present CBA but has it changed that much?

If we offer a qualifying offer to Reke, we can go over the cap to sign him which is the advantage. The disadvantage is that by extending a qualifying offer we have a cap hold of some $13 million on Tyreke's contract which is precisely our cap space this off season. In other words, until we sign Tyreke, we have no salary cap room to play with to sign other players.

Now if we don't extend Tyreke a qualifying offer, we don't have a cap hold which means $13 million in salary cap space but it also means that we cannot go over the cap to re-sign Tyreke as he becomes just like any other FA to us.

This is why I have been saying that we made major boo boo in the last two off seasons burning all of our cap space without addressing the needs. If we don't extend Tyreke a qualifying offer and amnesty Salmons, that frees up some $20 million of cap space (assuming we don't give QO to Douglas, JJ and Aldrich) which is still not enough to sign both Tyreke and Iggy and our 1st pick.

The only way we can do it is if we somehow traded couple of our crap deals with our pick to a team with salary cap room and a later pick so that we have more cap space come july 1. For example, if we trade pick 7, Hayes and Outlaw for say pick 19, we free up some additional $8-10 million of cap space. Amnesty Salmons and it becomes something line $15-18 million of cap space and if we re-sign Evans starting at $9 million then you can add another $4 million to cap space which could allow us to get Iggy and another decent piece.

The trick is trying to shed some of those ridiculously bad contracts hence why it is not realistic.
 
If we offer a qualifying offer to Reke, we can go over the cap to sign him which is the advantage. The disadvantage is that by extending a qualifying offer we have a cap hold of some $13 million on Tyreke's contract which is precisely our cap space this off season. In other words, until we sign Tyreke, we have no salary cap room to play with to sign other players.

Now if we don't extend Tyreke a qualifying offer, we don't have a cap hold which means $13 million in salary cap space but it also means that we cannot go over the cap to re-sign Tyreke as he becomes just like any other FA to us.

This is why I have been saying that we made major boo boo in the last two off seasons burning all of our cap space without addressing the needs. If we don't extend Tyreke a qualifying offer and amnesty Salmons, that frees up some $20 million of cap space (assuming we don't give QO to Douglas, JJ and Aldrich) which is still not enough to sign both Tyreke and Iggy and our 1st pick.

The only way we can do it is if we somehow traded couple of our crap deals with our pick to a team with salary cap room and a later pick so that we have more cap space come july 1. For example, if we trade pick 7, Hayes and Outlaw for say pick 19, we free up some additional $8-10 million of cap space. Amnesty Salmons and it becomes something line $15-18 million of cap space and if we re-sign Evans starting at $9 million then you can add another $4 million to cap space which could allow us to get Iggy and another decent piece.

The trick is trying to shed some of those ridiculously bad contracts hence why it is not realistic.

This is the way it appears to be. A decade or so ago the CBA was constructed so teams would have an advantage over other teams to retain their own players. The Bird rights were the highlight as far as I was concerned. There was no such thing as a cap hold so a team, let us say us, could sign a free agent up to the amount we are under the salary cap. We would have plenty of room to sign Iggy for example. But now with the cap hold, it is darn near impossible to retain Tyreke AND get a dignificant FA like, let me see, oh, Iggy!.

Just summarizing it in my own brain so I can get sufficiently angry. All the discussion of Iggy and Tyreke being on the same team is moot. And no, folks, you don't make a short term deal with Iggy with a wink and a promise of a bigger deal down the road. Isn't that what Minnesota did with Smith and got punished badly?

As the years passed the CBA became more and more complicated and that's when I gave up trying to understand it. Now the cap hold prohibits us from signing a significant free agent if we also want to retain Tyreke. That's the bottom line, right? Wonderful.

There are ways of making it all work but they are unlikely. Amnesty Salmons and trade MT for next to nothing back is one way. I presume I am at least moderately close to understanding how we will not make that jump in improvement by getting a significant SF.
 
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This is the way it appears to be. A decade or so ago the CBA was constructed so teams would have an advantage over other teams to retain their own players. The Bird rights were the highlight as far as I was concerned. There was no such thing as a cap hold so a team, let us say us, could sign a free agent up to the amount we are under the salary cap. We would have plenty of room to sign Iggy for example. But now with the cap hold, it is darn near impossible to retain Tyreke AND get a dignificant FA like, let me see, oh, Iggy!.

Just summarizing it in my own brain so I can get sufficiently angry. All the discussion of Iggy and Tyreke being on the same team is moot. And no, folks, you don't make a short term deal with Iggy with a wink and a promise of a bigger deal down the road. Isn't that what Minnesota did with Smith and got punished badly?

As the years passed the CBA became more and more complicated and that's when I gave up trying to understand it. Now the cap hold prohibits us from signing a significant free agent if we also want to retain Tyreke. That's the bottom line, right? Wonderful.

There are ways of making it all work but they are unlikely. Amnesty Salmons and trade MT for next to nothing back is one way. I presume I am at least moderately close to understanding how we will not make that jump in improvement by getting a significant SF.

I think the CBA still gives you that advantage but it certainly does NOT protect you from your own stupidity and hence that is why we are where we are at the moment. In 2 years time, we will shed a lot of the bad contracts BUT, at that time, Cousins will be on the max deal, Tyreke (if we re-sign him) will be on a larger deal etc.

To have a quick, effective rebuild you need a bit of luck and great cap management. The luck you need in the draft and I think with Cousins and Tyreke we got that. Where we stuffed up was the cap management. We spent all of the cap space on average non impact players.

A correctly executed rebuild sees you draft your stars with some luck and draft some solid role players next to them. The next step is to bring in very good veteran players (eg Iggy) BEFORE your young guns are up for extension. That way you use your cap space to get impact players, and the bird rights to go over the cap to sign your young stars. That is how you build good teams and carry out a proper rebuild. We finally seemed to have to right until we decided to:

1. Trade for Salmons and take on the extra year on his deal (Beno is a FA NOW) and in the process blow the pick
2. Trade Casspi (good move) for JJ Hickson AND our future first round pick (BAD move)
3. Spend the combines $16 million per season on Thornton, Hayes (yikes), Outlaw (double yikes)
4. Continue to blow early picks (Hello T-Rob)
5. Continue to sign players that don't fit (Hello Aaron Brooks)

Before you know it, your young stars are up for renewal and you have not real cap space because you invested in some $23 million per season in Salmons, Thornton, Hayes and Outlaw. Of those 3 only Thornton has some value as a player. Salmons has some value as a virtually expiring contract (and we can amnesty if we want) but with Hayes and Outlaw you have contracts far greater than their output and as such they are practically untradeable. Certainly not for expirings which is what PDA would be looking to do.

We just seriously screwed up the last 2 off-seasons and we are paying for it now. The problem is, we spent all that money and didn't get better. We stayed the same. That is how Clippers used to operate. I think that is why Vivek keeps saying that it will take a couple of years to turn this thing around. He knows the mess we are in with regards to salary cap flexibility so it would not surprise me one bit if we do not re-sign Tyreke, sign Cousins, suck next year, and hopefully strike it big in the draft and move those crap contract as expirings to get a very good quality player from a team looking to get under the luxury tax treshold.
 
I think we spent the money because if we hadn't, we would not have qualified for the NBA welfare program. :) Teams were told that if it didn't appear that they were trying to improve their team, they would not get the revenue sharing. The Maloofs needed the revenue sharing.

Ah, well, they are gone and we'll see what PDA does. I expect no miracles but I also think we have the ability to create a much better team than last year with a good draft pick, or at least what I think is a good draft pick, and a few trades to clean up our guard position. MT is the only player of significant value and we need to solve one of our problems using him. As I think one problem eventually will be solved by Adams, I think MT plus whoever could be traded for a SF and, please, don't ask me who. We aren't in an awful position. Major league disappointed.


If you don't understand my PM, I'll translate it. :)
 
I think the CBA still gives you that advantage but it certainly does NOT protect you from your own stupidity and hence that is why we are where we are at the moment. In 2 years time, we will shed a lot of the bad contracts BUT, at that time, Cousins will be on the max deal, Tyreke (if we re-sign him) will be on a larger deal etc.

To have a quick, effective rebuild you need a bit of luck and great cap management. The luck you need in the draft and I think with Cousins and Tyreke we got that. Where we stuffed up was the cap management. We spent all of the cap space on average non impact players.

A correctly executed rebuild sees you draft your stars with some luck and draft some solid role players next to them. The next step is to bring in very good veteran players (eg Iggy) BEFORE your young guns are up for extension. That way you use your cap space to get impact players, and the bird rights to go over the cap to sign your young stars. That is how you build good teams and carry out a proper rebuild. We finally seemed to have to right until we decided to:

1. Trade for Salmons and take on the extra year on his deal (Beno is a FA NOW) and in the process blow the pick
2. Trade Casspi (good move) for JJ Hickson AND our future first round pick (BAD move)
3. Spend the combines $16 million per season on Thornton, Hayes (yikes), Outlaw (double yikes)
4. Continue to blow early picks (Hello T-Rob)
5. Continue to sign players that don't fit (Hello Aaron Brooks)

Before you know it, your young stars are up for renewal and you have not real cap space because you invested in some $23 million per season in Salmons, Thornton, Hayes and Outlaw. Of those 3 only Thornton has some value as a player. Salmons has some value as a virtually expiring contract (and we can amnesty if we want) but with Hayes and Outlaw you have contracts far greater than their output and as such they are practically untradeable. Certainly not for expirings which is what PDA would be looking to do.

We just seriously screwed up the last 2 off-seasons and we are paying for it now. The problem is, we spent all that money and didn't get better. We stayed the same. That is how Clippers used to operate. I think that is why Vivek keeps saying that it will take a couple of years to turn this thing around. He knows the mess we are in with regards to salary cap flexibility so it would not surprise me one bit if we do not re-sign Tyreke, sign Cousins, suck next year, and hopefully strike it big in the draft and move those crap contract as expirings to get a very good quality player from a team looking to get under the luxury tax treshold.

Thank you!
This is more eloquently and clear way to present what I put in several posts today why Kings future as a very strong team is 2 years down the road, not now (miracles excluded). Did not know that Vivek also considers cleanup as a 2 year project.
Cosign.
(With the exception of "not re-sign Tyreke" and relying on striking big on the draft instead)
 
I'd love both... not ideal on paper but this is the nba, you get the best players you can then make it work. If I'm choosing between the two I'm going with the hometown guy that's 5 years younger... I'll take Reke.
 
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