I think Brad Miller will be traded!
- Thread starter TheJoker
- Start date
walker60
Bench
Players like Dampier and Chandler aren't very good. That's why the Bulls practically gave Chandler away for nothing and why Dampier is widely regarded as having one of the worst contracts in the league. The only way too look past their stats to try and claim that they are any good is to say that they bring intangibles. But that is a little far-fetched because both have been questioned about their basketball IQ and effort in practice and during games. I guess they have good size, so that can be considered an intangible. But it doesn't matter how many intangibles they bring, they are simply overpaid and not very good.
walker60
Bench
It's just a message board. If someone holds a different opinion than you, no need to get frustrated!
Or maybe you are just frustrated that the Kings haven't made any moves yet this offseason.
Not offensively, no they are not very good or good.
That's not their role. Damp/Diop/Chander roles are to play defense, hustle, be a presence in the paint, block shots, get rebounds, score any points around the basket. AKA, be defensive and hustling big men.
All three did those things or most of them, through-out the playoffs for their teams. Ditto Jason Collins.
Dampier and Chandler are indeed overpaid.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
And the march of the puzzled continues -- results in the NBA just have to be a constant puzzle to people who don't get the intrinsic value of the shotblocker/rebounder in this league. You will note how Chicago only moved Chandler after they got an even better one of the breed. How the Hornets plugged a big hole getting theirs, and how the Mavs, not just satisfied with one, went out and got another (actually two more if you count MBenga) and THEN suddenly had the breakthrough year.
R
Rome
Guest
I would take Diop or Dampier over Brad Miller any day.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
And there you have the flip extreme. You better get a nice piece or too back as well.
A
AriesMar27
Guest
you say that their roles are to play defense... yet duncan (for a lack of a better term, vf i apologize in advance) went wild on their asses..... 32 ppg? diaw went from 2ppg in atlanta to 24ppg in the wcf against the defensive minded mavs frontcourt.... and he's only 6'8....
they hustle to get dirks leftovers.... they werent purposely tipping rebounds to dirk, they just had oven mitts on their hands.... josh howard hustled.... griffin hustled.... terry hustled... dampier and diop were lucky that dirk didnt have butter fingers..... and the mavs were lucky that howard got that jumpball... but then he had that brain fart timeout....
they hustle to get dirks leftovers.... they werent purposely tipping rebounds to dirk, they just had oven mitts on their hands.... josh howard hustled.... griffin hustled.... terry hustled... dampier and diop were lucky that dirk didnt have butter fingers..... and the mavs were lucky that howard got that jumpball... but then he had that brain fart timeout....
R
Rome
Guest
How about Brad Miller making Kwame Brown look like Shaq. Or what about scrubs like Foyle and Jerome James toying Brad Miller around.
Brad Miller was always a defensive liability but at least he had some quickness before his injury. Now he's just a shooting, no defense, no rebounding, one dimensional center. He can't even do what he's good at which is shooting in the playoffs because other teams no how to handle the guy.
Sorry but I think I would rather see him get traded now than 2 years later when he can't rebound, play defense, block shots, or shoot.
R
Rome
Guest
Diaw > Brad Miller
Diaw can shoot and pass like Brad but also is a defensive liability. But hey at least he has speed and athleticism to make up for it... What does Brad have? Nothing. You can say he's a sever foot center but whats the use of being a seven foot center when you don't even take advantage of your size?
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walker60
Bench
I guess I would take someone of their skillset for 5-7 Million as a part of our frontcourt in a 4-man rotation. They just make way too much money under their current contracts. I can't be that puzzled about the intrisic value of Dampier and Chandler though. Almost all analysts would tell you that Chandler and Dampier are not nearly worth their contracts and that they leave a lot to be desired as a basketball player. If you look at their contracts, they are getting paid $10 million for 5 points, 9 rebounds, and 1.5 blocks. That doesn't even mention the amazing amount of fouls and TO's those two will put up.
The Mavericks have/always will take crap for the amount of money they are paying Dampier. They chose not to spend money on Steve Nash and, in turn, overpaid for a stiff like Dampier. That's not a smart move, Dampier is simply not worth the money he makes.
The Hornets are taking heat for picking up Chandler and his enormous contract as well. They traded away an expiring contract to pick up one of the worst contracts in the league. Analysts are very down on the moves they have made. If Chandler was as good as a lot of people on this board think, the Bulls could have gotten someone a bit better than Brown, expiring deal or not, for him. But instead, they got an aging veteran on his last legs.
Shotblockers are nice to have, but paying a guy 60 million for 5 years because they can net you 5 points, 9 boards, and 1.5 blocks a game to go along with their low basketball IQ and offensive ineptitude just isn't worth it.
captain bill
All-Star
A
AriesMar27
Guest
i never said that brad was great... i just said that he was better than dampier... which is true.... and who exactly is going to take advantage of millers defensive liabilities that dampier will stop? duncan? nope.... kg? nope... nash, parker, wade, diaw? nope... kobe dropped 63 points on them in 3 qtrs.... for all of their intangibles and all of brads faults... no one can give one example of dampier stopping anyone.... he was lucky that amare and thomas were out.... and dont give me that injuries are apart of the game bs....
no one player abuses brad anymore than they do dampier and diop.... duncan abused the heck out of dampier and diop.... to the tune of 32ppg... but against mr. softy brad miller duncan, rasho and nazr combined for 29ppg....
Actually Dampier and Diop are big reasons they won Game 7. They played Duncan well. Think it was mostly Diop.
Dampier/Diop hustled and played defense and were an interior presence all playoffs long, without them or with Brad, they don't go where they went. They were quite valuable to Dallas.
The ignorancy, is still, indeed there.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
a) yes, I'm sure theose Mavs are taking all sorts of Heat and have all sorts of regrets about having the best season in franchise history. Sucks to be them.
b) and you will have to provide me wiht the link for the Hornets "catching Heat" for brilliantly stealing Chandler for a guy a year or two from retirement, because it ain't out here in the normal NBA world. It was the capper to their move into playoff contention. Now watch what happens next year.
R
Rome
Guest
You guys remember how Skinner impacted the Kings front court last season when Brad was out? That was just a sample of what a defensive center can do for your team. Now just imagine getting a guy like Diop/Chandler/Dampier. These guys will do that on a daily basis and help your team become better defensively.
All im saying is that Brad Miller is not a MUST keep on this team. I think people are so sold on Brad Miller's offense and forget that he can't do one thing other than shoot.
All im saying is that Brad Miller is not a MUST keep on this team. I think people are so sold on Brad Miller's offense and forget that he can't do one thing other than shoot.
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walker60
Bench
A) The Mavs had a good season. Dampier's impact on the making the finals was minimal. He makes over $10 Million a season. Last year they ended their playoff run to the Spurs while Dirk Nowitzki was publicly whining about how their center needed to step it up. All the while, the MVP of the league (who they let go so they could get Dampier) was torching them for over 30 points and 10 assists a game. This year Dampier was benched.
B)
1. This article talks about the Hornets crappy off-season in general:
http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/insider/columns/story?columnist=hollinger_john&id=2510273
2. This one mentions how both Chandler and Dampier's contracts worked out terribly:
http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/insider/columns/story?columnist=hollinger_john&id=2510172
It mentions how, if possible, the teams that own the contracts of guys like E. Thomas, Chandler, Foyle, and Dampier would give them away for absolutley nothing. Just so they could get the salary of their hands.
3. Here's another:
http://endofthebench.mostvaluablenetwork.com/general/no-bull-tyson-chandler-is-one-hornet-guy/
4. Another:
http://www.insidehoops.com/chandler-smith-brown-071406.shtml
5. Another. This one is more critical than the others.
http://www.nola.com/hornets/t-p/index.ssf?/base/sports-2/1152169543119420.xml&coll=1
I could have gotten more, but I don't think its necessary. Well there ya go, I provided you with some links that are critical about the Chandler trade... they do exist in the NBA world!
R
Rome
Guest
A) The Mavs had a good season. Dampier's impact on the making the finals was minimal. He makes over $10 Million a season. Last year they ended their playoff run to the Spurs while Dirk Nowitzki was publicly whining about how their center needed to step it up. All the while, the MVP of the league (who they let go so they could get Dampier) was torching them for over 30 points and 10 assists a game. This year Dampier was benched.
B)
1. This article talks about the Hornets crappy off-season in general:
http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/insider/columns/story?columnist=hollinger_john&id=2510273
2. This one mentions how both Chandler and Dampier's contracts worked out terribly:
http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/insider/columns/story?columnist=hollinger_john&id=2510172
It mentions how, if possible, the teams that own the contracts of guys like E. Thomas, Chandler, Foyle, and Dampier would give them away for absolutley nothing. Just so they could get the salary of their hands.
3. Here's another:
http://endofthebench.mostvaluablenetwork.com/general/no-bull-tyson-chandler-is-one-hornet-guy/
4. Another:
http://www.insidehoops.com/chandler-smith-brown-071406.shtml
5. Another. This one is more critical than the others.
http://www.nola.com/hornets/t-p/index.ssf?/base/sports-2/1152169543119420.xml&coll=1
I could have gotten more, but I don't think its necessary. Well there ya go, I provided you with some links that are critical about the Chandler trade... they do exist in the NBA world!
Who cares what BSPN has to say about team's offseason moves and analysis of players?
Dampier averages the same amount of rebounds as Brad does in half the minutes. He also gets you a block a game plus inside presence.
Lets see whats more important? Having a 11 million dollar center Giving up uncontested shot after shot, shooting 18 ft jump shots or having a big with inside presence?
Anyone who wants to give up an All-Star center is an *** bites tongue ***.
Brad had an off season, very true. He admits it on the radio, and hopefully he gets his defensive aggression back. I can't believe people are discussing Dampier and packages for Brad.
Overall, there is crap out there for centers. And the ones that are an upgrade over Brad will not be traded. So be happy that we have a top five center on our team. Other than the unique situation with Shaq, you can't trade for a great center.
Plus, if we go defensive for our center; everyone will complain when he goes up and gets fouled, and then misses two free throws in a row.
Brad had an off season, very true. He admits it on the radio, and hopefully he gets his defensive aggression back. I can't believe people are discussing Dampier and packages for Brad.
Overall, there is crap out there for centers. And the ones that are an upgrade over Brad will not be traded. So be happy that we have a top five center on our team. Other than the unique situation with Shaq, you can't trade for a great center.
Plus, if we go defensive for our center; everyone will complain when he goes up and gets fouled, and then misses two free throws in a row.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
A) The Mavs had a good season. Dampier's impact on the making the finals was minimal. He makes over $10 Million a season. Last year they ended their playoff run to the Spurs while Dirk Nowitzki was publicly whining about how their center needed to step it up. All the while, the MVP of the league (who they let go so they could get Dampier) was torching them for over 30 points and 10 assists a game. This year Dampier was benched.
B)
1. This article talks about the Hornets crappy off-season in general:
http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/insider/columns/story?columnist=hollinger_john&id=2510273
2. This one mentions how both Chandler and Dampier's contracts worked out terribly:
http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/insider/columns/story?columnist=hollinger_john&id=2510172
It mentions how, if possible, the teams that own the contracts of guys like E. Thomas, Chandler, Foyle, and Dampier would give them away for absolutley nothing. Just so they could get the salary of their hands.
3. Here's another:
http://endofthebench.mostvaluablenetwork.com/general/no-bull-tyson-chandler-is-one-hornet-guy/
4. Another:
http://www.insidehoops.com/chandler-smith-brown-071406.shtml
5. Another. This one is more critical than the others.
http://www.nola.com/hornets/t-p/index.ssf?/base/sports-2/1152169543119420.xml&coll=1
I could have gotten more, but I don't think its necessary. Well there ya go, I provided you with some links that are critical about the Chandler trade... they do exist in the NBA world!
Well you found some....unfortunately you cited John Hollinger, who is utterly lost basketballwise without his slide rule, a couple of amateurs who's negativity was both mild and confined to potshots at the contract, and the local paper I have seen before who stopped considerably before calling it a bad move and clearly were more taken by Brown as the local nice guy/good interview ala Vlade.
That's nice, and I understand that that sort of riff raff and innuendo is about the best you are going to come up with in support of your point -- still doesn't mean those are the voices you should be listening to though.
Dime Dropper
All-Star
Why don't you write about it then Bricklayer? I'm sure we'll all love everything you have to say. No one will ever disagree with you. I hope we trade Miller for another big possibly Dalembert (contracts probably don't go) or someone like him.
This is not the time to trade Miller, period.
His trade value is low after a poor playoffs. I think he is a great fit with an Artest led team. He doesn't mind scrambling for loose balls, which makes up for his weighted down vertical jump. There is no way I would give up on him yet.
People worry about his rebounds, but he will always be around the middle statistically in this category because he sits around the perimeter in our offense, thus reducing offensive rebounds. He is fine on the defensive side. He just needs a kick in the butt, Artest style, and he will be back to Big Bad Brad.
Defense is a team thing, to blame one person is stupid.
His trade value is low after a poor playoffs. I think he is a great fit with an Artest led team. He doesn't mind scrambling for loose balls, which makes up for his weighted down vertical jump. There is no way I would give up on him yet.
People worry about his rebounds, but he will always be around the middle statistically in this category because he sits around the perimeter in our offense, thus reducing offensive rebounds. He is fine on the defensive side. He just needs a kick in the butt, Artest style, and he will be back to Big Bad Brad.
Defense is a team thing, to blame one person is stupid.
walker60
Bench
Lol. C'mon Brick! You said I was marching on as someone who is puzzled and doesn't understand the value of a shotblocker. Then you said to find you a link saying the Hornets made a questionable trade. You said that they do not exist. Well, I provided you with five. Take them for what they are worth, but not everyone thinks as highly of Dampier or Chandler like you do. I could get more links, but quite frankly it just isn't worth the time. I guess if we ever participate in a simulation league together you can have Dampier and I'll take Miller. Have a nice day.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
That's very...sad.
Here is the key to successfully disagreeing with me: know what the hell you are talking about and be able to back up your points.
Here is the key to unsuccessfully disagreeing with me: whining.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
Brad's defensive rebounding is better than his offensive reboudning. Neither is up to snuff. Brad wasn't middle of anything last year -- he was bottom of the barrel rebounding for centers. Trying to defend that through distortion is just silly.
The way you actually go about defending it is you point back a few years ago when his rebounding was actually reasonably strong. Still couldn't defend anybody, but in his first year here he would grab boards. Been a long time since that's been true though, and he's not getting any younger.
