I think Brad Miller will be traded!

[Bricklayer]

Right, but then, there's Bill Cartwright as well, who couldn't block a shot to save his life. Obviously Cartwright and Longley had dirty work guys who compensated for their weaknesses in Horace Grant and Rodman (and it didn't hurt to be playing alongside two of the greatest players ever), but it's dangerous to say something like a jumpshooting nondefensive center can't work -- it can, as long as you have the right mix. The Kings don't have that yet and I have my doubts about Brad, but it doesn't mean Brad can't be part of the puzzle.

Not too dangerous.

All we have to do is trade for an All-Defense team PF (not to mention a guy named Jordan) and then reduce Brad to a 20min platoon player for $12mil a year and we are golden. Not even likely then, as Cartwright and Luc could defensively handle their own men in their spot starts (indeed, part of their purpose).

 

[Gary]

Are you really comparing Dampier and Brad Miller? Dampier unlike Brad Miller can block shots, rebound and defend in the post against guys like Tim Duncan.

What can Brad Miller do once his shots not falling? He can't help the team by rebounding, blocking shots, playing defense or anything else to help the Kings win in the playoffs.

Its not always about who can score the most points... The Little things like defensive stops and rebounding can help your team win games in the playoffs.

Oh man.

List all the centers out there that are better than Brad. Why not just find a PF that can play next to Brad that can do all of those things? Dampier for Brad is just plain dumb.

What happens when Dampier is taking a game off, or dissappears in a game? We got a 6'11 stiff out there thats what we would have. At least Brad can keep the defense honest when out there at 15-17ft. Plus he brings the center out a bit for the slashers. Imagine a Dampier standing around and our slashers going to the hole only to get pummeled by the opposing center. Yep, Dampier cannot set a pick. Ever seen him try? It's horrible.

 

[hammystyle]

Because that would be how you win in the NBA.

Name the "Top 10" jumpshooting soft on the galss and defensively center who has won a title?

Substitute jumpshooting with skyhooking and I submit to you: Kareem Abdul Jabbar. I do agree with you in general though, but I will violently argue with anyone that thinks that Erick Dampier could get a team closer to a title than Brad Miller.

 

[Rome]

Oh man.

List all the centers out there that are better than Brad. Why not just find a PF that can play next to Brad that can do all of those things? Dampier for Brad is just plain dumb.

What happens when Dampier is taking a game off, or dissappears in a game? We got a 6'11 stiff out there thats what we would have. At least Brad can keep the defense honest when out there at 15-17ft. Plus he brings the center out a bit for the slashers. Imagine a Dampier standing around and our slashers going to the hole only to get pummeled by the opposing center. Yep, Dampier cannot set a pick. Ever seen him try? It's horrible.

no one ever said we should go ahead and trade Miller for Dampier. All im trying to say is that a center who can play defense and rebound will get you much far than a center who stands around the perimeter shooting jump shots.

 

[Rome]

Substitute jumpshooting with skyhooking and I submit to you: Kareem Abdul Jabbar. I do agree with you in general though, but I will violently argue with anyone that thinks that Erick Dampier could get a team closer to a title than Brad Miller.

Kareem averaged 11.4 rpg and 3 bpg. Plus 24.6 ppg.

 

[ParniValjak]

but the fact of the matter is lately miller has not been able to defend or play offense... his offense has been terrible lately and he is not a good post season player. he is not spreading the floor the way he has been shooting! we need defense!

If thats you opinion then why not trade Bibby?! I mean he also doesn't play defence and he sure as hell has pulled off a disappearing act in the play-offs for some time now. Why keep him and trade Miller?!

 

[hammystyle]

Kareem averaged 11.4 rpg and 3 bpg. Plus 24.6 ppg.

Sorry, fogot to put in that it wast 38-40 year old Karrem who averaged 1.1 bpg and 6 boards.

 

[Gary]

A center that can pull the opposing centers out which leaves the lane open for slashers.

Of all the centers Brad was...

1st in assists (by a mile)
1st in 3pt% (of all the major players)
3rd in FT%
4th in double doubles
5th in scoring
5th in steals


12th in rebounding
33rd in blocks

These are the parts that a nice PF could fix for us.

 

[Kings113]

Etan Thomas.

Wiz want to clear out 1 or 2 of the slower/half-court guys in Haywood/Ruffin/Etan. KT fits the mold of the mobile PF they want for the uptempo/small-ball, and brings them rebounding and toughness. Jamison is definitely a 3, and Butler and/or Jefferies (if he's back) can come off the bench or play SG, as they've done a number of times in the past with the Wiz.

 

[walker60]

Because that would be how you win in the NBA.

Name the "Top 10" jumpshooting soft on the galss and defensively center who has won a title?


While you are working on that, I can run off name after name of guys who coudln't do much else but block a shot and board who have won one. Why? because interior defense is the single most important trait a "big man" can provide. It is in fact the entire point and purpose of having a "big man". There is no special reason to have a slow footed tall jumpshooter on the floor. Might as well have a smaller, quicker one. But only a big man, a TRUE big man, can provide shotblocking and intimidation around the hoop. And without that ability to protect the basket, history says all the perimeter skills in the world are fools gold.

Which doesn't mean we dump Brad, a player of value, for nothing. That's juat a dumb move from a talent pool standpoint. But it is an open recognition that Erick Dampier, limited though he be, looks a helluva lot more like a title winning center than Brad Miller does, and indeed has been much closer to the top of the mountain.

I can tell you why sweet passing, soft-shooting, skilled big men don't win a title as often as a defensive Center has. That is because they are extremely rare. Brad Miller has a very unusual skillset for someone has big as he is. That's why players like him don't win the title often, because there is hardly any players like that. It doesn't take a genius to figure out why so many big men who can block a shot a game and rebound have won. That is because they are a dime-a-dozen.

If someone wants to give us a Hall of Fame big man that can carry us to the title so we can repeat 'history', then by all means let's do it, but it won't happen. Trading Miller for someone who averages a couple more rebounds and another block a game isn't worth it. Chandler/ Magloire or anyone else along the same skill level for Miller is a serious downgrade in talent. I even saw someone on a different thread who wanted to see Miller replaced with a starting frontcourt of Lorenzen Wright and Etan Thomas. That isn't the answer.

Miller is a very good starting Center. He is one of the better ones in the league. All we need is a backup for him, not to get rid of him.

 

[walker60]

If thats you opinion then why not trade Bibby?! I mean he also doesn't play defence and he sure as hell has pulled off a disappearing act in the play-offs for some time now. Why keep him and trade Miller?!

Exactly, it's like Bibby gets a free pass...

 

[ParniValjak]

Miller is a very good starting Center. He is one of the better ones in the league. All we need is a backup for him, not to get rid of him.

All we need is someone who will cover his weaknesses. Someone who will complement him. If you have Miller as you C then you need a PF that does what Miller doesn't do well. I would rather have Miller at C than some wanna be player who can't do half the things Miller can.

 

[Fresno King]

All we need is someone who will cover his weaknesses. Someone who will complement him.

We had him. His name is Brian Skinner.

I mean, I know we got rid of him so we didn't have to pay the luxury tax, but really, would it have been that big of a burden? How much did the Kings save with that deal? Was it THAT much? Now look at the pickle we're in... desperate for a defensive minded backup center. We got Monia and Potapotato for Skinner, and Monia's going back to Europe, and everyone wants Mount Baldy out of town. At least try to trade KT to Portland for Skinner. KT could take over for Darius Miles at forward (the Blazers want to deal him), and POR has so many young dudes thanks to their 28 trades on draft day, that they may have enough green to cover KT's contract. I think about this all the time. If we would have kept Skinner, all this talk about getting a defensive minded frontcourt player wouldn't be much of an issue. And Amundsen and Williams from summer league would have provided the defensive depth at a rock bottom price. Considering all the scenarios, Miller, Skinner, Amundsen and Williams at C/PF isn't all that bad.

 

[SacKings384]

Brian Skinner did NOT cover his weaknesses...

 

[SacKings384]

If thats you opinion then why not trade Bibby?! I mean he also doesn't play defence and he sure as hell has pulled off a disappearing act in the play-offs for some time now. Why keep him and trade Miller?!

Because a bad defender at PG is much less damaging than a bad defender at the 4 or 5 spot? Because offense is nessecary from a PG but not from a center? Becuase Brad sucks at rebounding AND defense?

 

[Bricklayer]

A center that can pull the opposing centers out which leaves the lane open for slashers.

Let me complete that sentence for you:

...has never been remotely important for winning an NBA title.

 

[walker60]

At bad defender at PG is as bad as having one at C. A PG who can't defend let's the other team set up their offense as they wish. It also allows the other team's point guard into the lane on a continuous basis. From there they can either finish, find a slashing player, or kick it out for 3. Defense starts with the PG, if he can't get it done, it puts a heavy burden on the rest of the team.

 

[walker60]

Let me complete that sentence for you:

...has never been remotely important for winning an NBA title.

For our team it's important. 3/5 of our starting lineup are post players who aren't great shooters (Bonzi, Martin, SAR). Having a stiff would really make it tough for them to operate.

 

[Bricklayer]

At bad defender at PG is as bad as having one at C..

No its not. People like to say that, but they are just making it up.


Lot of bad/shaky PG defenders have taken the big prize. In fact if you were going to look at nothing else you might conclude that being a bad PG defender was a GOOD thing.

Difference is that when a bad PG defender gets beat, he has the whole defense behind him to make up for his mistake. When a bad C defender gets beat, or cannot or will not play help defense, he's the last line of defense. If he doesn't get the stop, nobody will. The center defender can cover for the PG defender, the reverse is not true. Hence interior defender >> perimeter defender. They are the wall and last hurdle.

 

[Rome]

For our team it's important. 3/5 of our starting lineup are post players who aren't great shooters (Bonzi, Martin, SAR). Having a stiff would really make it tough for them to operate.

Martin shot 36% from downtown, Reef can hit the 15-18 ft jumpshots which is fine for a PF

 

[walker60]

Martin shot 36% from downtown, Reef can hit the 15-18 ft jumpshots which is fine for a PF

Oops...I meant Artest.

 

[SacKings384]

At bad defender at PG is as bad as having one at C. A PG who can't defend let's the other team set up their offense as they wish. It also allows the other team's point guard into the lane on a continuous basis. From there they can either finish, find a slashing player, or kick it out for 3. Defense starts with the PG, if he can't get it done, it puts a heavy burden on the rest of the team.

What's worse? If you have a really bad front wall and a really bad last wall with solid walls in the middle. What's more important that it holds up?

 

[walker60]

No its not. People like to say that, but they are just making it up.


Lot of bad/shaky PG defenders have taken the big prize. In fact if you were going to look at nothing else you might conclude that being a bad PG defender was a GOOD thing.

Difference is that when a bad PG defender gets beat, he has the whole defense behind him to make up for his mistake. When a bad C defender gets beat, or cannot or will not play help defense, he's the last line of defense. If he doesn't get the stop, nobody will. The center defender can cover for the PG defender, the reverse is not true. Hence interior defender >> perimeter defender. They are the wall and last hurdle.

Those are good points, but I think both positions are about even when it comes to defensive importance. A C is the last line of defense like you said. But a PG is the first line of defense. The opposing team will get more open 3's, more slashers making layups, and a much more efficiently-run offense than they would otherwise. If Bibby doesn't let Parker into the lane on every position, then Miller doesn't have to guard both a Hall of Fame PF and a PG at the same time. So the C is only exposed when his teamate blows their own defensive assignment.

Brad Miller's defense didn't lose that series for us. It was Bibby's. He was the one who gave up the wide open three that lost game 2. Tony Parker continuously got to the lane. Miller could have done more to help him, but in the end Miller had his hands full with Duncan. If Bibby could have shut down Parker, we would have won that series.

 

[Kings113]

Oops...I meant Artest.

Ron's jumper I think will be better like it was in Indy in 2005... since he'll be working on it again this summer, like he did last summer. Then of course have a summer of working out and getting back to game shape through training camp and pre-season, as well.

While it probably isn't something to count on for the team's supply of shooting, the improvement will be a bonus.

 

[Rome]

Artest has a three point rating of 85 on NBA 2k6. I think he's a good shooter but not a 85 lol.

 

[ParniValjak]

We had him. His name is Brian Skinner.

Errr......NO!!!!!!

Skinner is a role player at best. A journeyman who has changed more teams that knickers. Skinner is not an impact player. Never has been and never will be.

 

[ParniValjak]

Because a bad defender at PG is much less damaging than a bad defender at the 4 or 5 spot? Because offense is nessecary from a PG but not from a center? Becuase Brad sucks at rebounding AND defense?

Absolute hogwash.

If you have super defenders on the perimeter you can get away with average defender in the pain. What is a bit moronic is people having a red hot crack at Miller for his dodgy defense and the lay up drills that supposedly he allows but fact is that if you slow down the penetration there is a hell of a lot less pressure on Miller and others.

So now offence is neccessary from a PG?! Since when? A traditional PG is the one that passes first and shoots second. A player that initiates the offense and gets others involved. Just as people point the finger at Miller for his bad rebounding and defence, they can quite easily point thier finger at Bibby for his below average defence (and I am being kind) and his average PG skills in terms of getting others involved.

Fact is Kings fans muct have a whipping boy. We had Webber but apparently he wasn't good enough so we got stuck into him. Then we had Peja and people still get stuck into him even though he is long gone. Now we have Miller. Who is next?!

I think Miller and Bibby are top 10 in their positions in the NBA and they are players that are good enough to keep and complement rather than trade. You get someone who addresses their weaknesses and play them alongside them. Not ship them off for below average players who apparently what we need

 

[Fresno King]

Errr......NO!!!!!!

Skinner is a role player at best. A journeyman who has changed more teams that knickers. Skinner is not an impact player. Never has been and never will be.

Did I say Skinner was an impact player?? NO!!!!!! Is he a better defender than Miller? Yes! He was a good role player that played hard on both ends of the floor. When he started for Miller, his toughness and ability to block shots were impressive. He's good for 15-20 minutes a game to spell Brad (if we keep him), and he's a much better defender than anyone we have in the frontcourt right now except Artest.

 

[Kings113]

SAR's post-defense should not go overlooked, as that was a suprise to me, and was consistent. But it often does because of his below good rebounding and lack of shotblocking.

Similar to Jason Collins post-defense gets overlooked, despite him being one of the tops in the whole league at it, while bringing intangibles. Not being a good leaper or that mobile (not in comparision to SAR) or a scorer, so it doesn't get noticed really except by Nets followers or deep NBA followers. Thus is garbage or a scrub.

 

[crutonimo]

Bibbys defense is much worse than Brads defense...
Bibby For Dalembert....sign Marcus Banks

Banks/Price/Douby
Wells/KMart/Garcia/Douby
Artest/Garcia
Miller/SAR/KT
Dalembert/Miller