How to situate our backcourt...

[rexb_kings]

I know everyone here dislikes Jimmer but I'm hoping for the best for him here with the Kings. I banking on the fact that Malone ( the real coach of the Warriors ) has the ability to get most out of his players playing to or beyond their potential. Imagine the following:

Klay Thompson on another team would have been the next Austin Daye, but has emerged as the best shooter in the game.
Harrison Barnes could easily been the next tweener SF who hasn't met his potential ie Marvin Williams but watching him play in the playoffs i kept reminding myself he's a rookie
Curry wasn't a great defender but played ok under the system and it also helped that he shot lights out --> Jimmer
Ezelli, Drummond Green, Bazemore? These guys would have been scrubs on other teams yet they played with energy and has impacted the game night in night out especially in the playoffs

I'm hoping a fresh start for Evans, Cousins and Jimmer under the new coaching staff. I was kind of hoping we still had T.Robinson he would have been the perfect off the bench energy guy ie. Landry for the Warriors. I believe under coach Malone if you buy into his system (full effort and tough D) and willing to improve you will get better and become the best player for the team.

 

[Gary]

Neither is Westbrook but seems to workout fine!

Westbrook has a lot better court vision than Evans though. You should know, and I know this from watching OKC games. But we are in a quandary right now. What to do? Will Evans even be signed? Will IT be back? Will we trade MT? Who knows.. Lots SHOULD happen before the season.

 

[Gary]

I know everyone here dislikes Jimmer but I'm hoping for the best for him here with the Kings. I banking on the fact that Malone ( the real coach of the Warriors ) has the ability to get most out of his players playing to or beyond their potential. Imagine the following:

Klay Thompson on another team would have been the next Austin Daye, but has emerged as the best shooter in the game.
Harrison Barnes could easily been the next tweener SF who hasn't met his potential ie Marvin Williams but watching him play in the playoffs i kept reminding myself he's a rookie
Curry wasn't a great defender but played ok under the system and it also helped that he shot lights out --> Jimmer
Ezelli, Drummond Green, Bazemore? These guys would have been scrubs on other teams yet they played with energy and has impacted the game night in night out especially in the playoffs

I'm hoping a fresh start for Evans, Cousins and Jimmer under the new coaching staff. I was kind of hoping we still had T.Robinson he would have been the perfect off the bench energy guy ie. Landry for the Warriors. I believe under coach Malone if you buy into his system (full effort and tough D) and willing to improve you will get better and become the best player for the team.

Yes, yes, and NOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

 

[Bricklayer]

We need a PG that doesn't slow the offense down and Tyreke did that alot last season. I want to keep Tyreke at SG. I really don't care if people don't agree with me. It's just MY opinion.

No longer an option after yesterday. Its PG or bust. Well, theoretically SF, but its hard to imagine that mistake being repeated with Smart gone.

And yes, last year Reke was either rusty or uncomfortable with the offense. His PG work was noticeably worse than it had been when he was a starter. That won't do. If that is the plan, we need an offense designed around his talents and limitations.

 

[ppine]

I am continually surprised by how readily people will give up on players on the current roster, for unproven 19 year olds that have never played a game in the NBA.

 

[roasthawg]

Thornton is clearly gone... that's my take from this. Can't pay 8mil to a guy not getting minutes. Resign Tyreke and let IT and Jimmer come off the bench. Start McLemore from the gate and you have Evans who can start at pg and shift over to sg or even sf when IT is in the game. Looks good... not let's just resign Evans!!

 

[VF21]

I know everyone here dislikes Jimmer but I'm hoping for the best for him here with the Kings. I banking on the fact that Malone ( the real coach of the Warriors ) has the ability to get most out of his players playing to or beyond their potential. Imagine the following:

Klay Thompson on another team would have been the next Austin Daye, but has emerged as the best shooter in the game.
Harrison Barnes could easily been the next tweener SF who hasn't met his potential ie Marvin Williams but watching him play in the playoffs i kept reminding myself he's a rookie
Curry wasn't a great defender but played ok under the system and it also helped that he shot lights out --> Jimmer
Ezelli, Drummond Green, Bazemore? These guys would have been scrubs on other teams yet they played with energy and has impacted the game night in night out especially in the playoffs

I'm hoping a fresh start for Evans, Cousins and Jimmer under the new coaching staff. I was kind of hoping we still had T.Robinson he would have been the perfect off the bench energy guy ie. Landry for the Warriors. I believe under coach Malone if you buy into his system (full effort and tough D) and willing to improve you will get better and become the best player for the team.

Not EVERYBODY dislikes Jimmer. Some of us have just given up on trying to fight the majority opinion. I think there is a niche for Jimmer on the Kings if people quit trying to force him into a role he just isn't suited for. He's got a lethal shot when his confidence isn't buried at the end of the bench. I think Malone will be able to utilize that in a much better way than Smart ever thought of.

 

[Kingsfan23]

Thornton is clearly gone... that's my take from this. Can't pay 8mil to a guy not getting minutes. Resign Tyreke and let IT and Jimmer come off the bench. Start McLemore from the gate and you have Evans who can start at pg and shift over to sg or even sf when IT is in the game. Looks good... not let's just resign Evans!!

Thornton on paper looks most likely to go. The problem is, in my opinion, his talent outweighs his market value. It can be argued, that his contract has the perception of negative value around the league due to the way the Kings have been utilizing him and his diminishing level of play over the last year or two. Like Tyreke, I think Thornton can play a little bit still and would be intrigued how he responds under better tutelage. We just might not have the minutes to go around

 

[roasthawg]

Thornton on paper looks most likely to go. The problem is, in my opinion, his talent outweighs his market value. It can be argued, that his contract has the perception of negative value around the league due to the way the Kings have been utilizing him and his diminishing level of play over the last year or two. Like Tyreke, I think Thornton can play a little bit still and would be intrigued how he responds under better tutelage. We just might not have the minutes to go around

Might have to take back a bad contract in return... but hopefully a player that fits our needs a little better.

 

[pshn80]

Before making any more big decisions about our front court, move Thornton and Fredette. I have long advocated that and now with two new men there, we can and should do it painlessly. I don't hate either of them, it's just that their going frees us to do better things with playing minutes. I wish them both well.

With that done we can figure out how we play the great bunch that are left.

 

[Padrino]

Unbelievable. The same people throwing a hissy fit about Reke are willing to let IT, who will cost $1mi,l walk for nothing.

Nice hypocrisy going on

these things are weighted in professional sports, friend. tyreke evans is a physically gifted penetrator of elite skill level in the nba, a potential all-star, and the kind of asset you cannot allow to walk out the door unless someone out there is willing to throw insane money at him, while isaiah thomas is a physically-limited change-of-pace guard that is clearly not without talent or drive. but it's certainly not hypocrisy to say that it is imperative to hold onto a guy with tyreke evans' talent and physical gifts, and that it's no major loss to let go of a guy with considerably less valuable talent and physical gifts in isaiah thomas...

that said, i'm not in disagreement with you. small market franchise management is about maximizing your assets. outside of demarcus cousins, who the kings have no intention of trading, marcus thornton and jason thompson are the only kings under contract who can bring back a useful level of talent in return, given both their own talent level and the size of their respective contracts, and the kings have needs that it could potentially meet with those trade returns. in such an instance you move marcus thornton if there is a player on the other side that better fits the needs of this team, and you shift isaiah thomas into a full-time sixth man role, where he's best-suited. thornton may be a more explosive scorer, but thomas is much cheaper for a significant rotation player coming off the bench...

 

[funkykingston]

Here's the current situation of the Kings backcourt:

The team has Marcus Thornton and Jimmer Fredette under contract. Ironic that they are the only guards officially on the roster now while also being the most likely to not be on the roster when the season starts.

Ben McLemore will absolutely be signed to a rookie contract.

I don't foresee the Kings failing to pick up IT's option. Thomas has shown he's an NBA level talent and comes at a bargain. There's no reason not to sign him. And if Evans is not resigned, IT would be the presumptive starter at PG.

Evans is a restricted free agent that Ranadive and D'Alessandro have said they want back. Whether that means "at the right price" or "by any means necessary" who knows. It could be that they imagined McLemore at the 2 and
Tyreke at the 1 or it could be that they don't see Tyreke as a long term piece but still would like to resign him to a reasonable deal as a tradeable asset. I'd prefer Evans be a building block, but we really have no idea what the new regime plans to do with (or without) him.

Ray McCallum is a 2nd round pick and therefore far from a lock to make the team. For all the hand wringing about drafting another guard, just finding an NBA player in the 2nd round is an accomplishment. I'm all in favor of strongly considering fit with your first round pick when you have a foundational player (Cousins) but in the 2nd you grab any player that you think can stick because even if he can't get any burn and he doesn't fill a hole, a talented player is always an asset. Steve Nash netted a first rounder (that became Marion) despite being behind both Kidd and KJ on Phoenix's bench. Don't misread me, I'm not trying to associate McCallum with Nash, simply making a point. If he sticks, he's an asset even if he crowds the backcourt which I think is a FAR greater position than grabbing a 2nd rounder who fills a need but who is cut before the season. We'll see. I'd guess the odds of McCallum making the squad are 66% or so.

Toney Douglas on the other hand looked like a very nice roleplayer who unfortunately will likely be on the wrong side of a numbers game. I think it's unlikely that he returns.

So there are a few options. One is that Evans doesn't come back. In that case I think the odds of resigning Douglas as a 3rd PG increase and the starting guards are Thomas and Thornton with McLemore brought along slowly. If he plays well the Kings aggressively shop Thornton at the trade deadline. Of course if Thornton is dealt this summer and Tyreke not retained then McLemore starts on day 1. Good experience but perhaps not ideal.

If Tyreke IS resigned then I think the team tries very hard to deal Thornton this summer.

I'm guessing Jimmer has already been dangled with no success so I'm not sure any moves made this summer change his trade value at all. Still, I don't see a way that he can be on the court with McLemore with neither of them being able to handle the ball or penetrate/create so he'll continue to be shopped. My guess is that if he moves he'll be part of a larger deal.

Should be an interesting summer.

 

[funkykingston]

Not EVERYBODY dislikes Jimmer. Some of us have just given up on trying to fight the majority opinion. I think there is a niche for Jimmer on the Kings if people quit trying to force him into a role he just isn't suited for. He's got a lethal shot when his confidence isn't buried at the end of the bench. I think Malone will be able to utilize that in a much better way than Smart ever thought of.

I think Jimmer will find his role, but I'm not sure it will be with the Kings. IF Tyreke returns I think you can play those two together as Evans can be the primary ballhandler. But I think IT + Fredette is a terrible pairing, Thornton + Fredette leaves you without a creator and two shooters and McLemore + Fredette means a backcourt that can't handle the ball against pressure and will get picked apart.

I was expecting to see Jimmer moved (by himself or in a larger trade) on draft night. Whether that means the chatter of the Kings trying to move him was incorrect or that there just weren't takers I don't know.

 

[roasthawg]

I think Jimmer will find his role, but I'm not sure it will be with the Kings. IF Tyreke returns I think you can play those two together as Evans can be the primary ballhandler. But I think IT + Fredette is a terrible pairing, Thornton + Fredette leaves you without a creator and two shooters and McLemore + Fredette means a backcourt that can't handle the ball against pressure and will get picked apart.

I was expecting to see Jimmer moved (by himself or in a larger trade) on draft night. Whether that means the chatter of the Kings trying to move him was incorrect or that there just weren't takers I don't know.

The thing is you can substitute "Fredette" for "Thornton". One of them clearly has to go... imo should be Thornton as he costs the most.

 

[cuad]

I would get rid of Thornton and McCallum. I would have a three guard rotation of McLemore, Evans, and Isaiah, with Jimmer as the injury insurance guard.

 

[Bosnian Diehard]

With all the talk of wanting to trade Thornton, i don't see much value from him. He has an $8 million contract and doesn't seem to attract interest. What is the actual of possibility of trading him? Jimmer, on the other hand, still has potential, and has only played for two season so had probably has some value in terms of potential.

 

[funkykingston]

The thing is you can substitute "Fredette" for "Thornton". One of them clearly has to go... imo should be Thornton as he costs the most.

Not really. Thornton is a legit SG. He could even pair with IT as a starting backcourt if Evans isn't resigned and they want to bring McLemore along slowly. Jimmer can't start or sub in as a SG. Right now Fredette is clearly fungible if there is a good deal out there for him. Thornton is really only expendable IF Tyreke is retained.

 

[Jkbiker]

First you get Reke resigned or not

2nd if Reke is Resigned he will be PG/SG

So then if you have two SG better than Thorton he should be traded

Thorton is too good and expensive to be 3rd option as SG

So he would have trade value to a team that needs a 1st or 2nd SG, and that team also has a glut of SF (preferred) or defensive Big and wants to trade salary for salary

So time for DLA to get busy

 

[t-rex]

I know everyone here dislikes Jimmer but I'm hoping for the best for him here with the Kings. I banking on the fact that Malone ( the real coach of the Warriors ) has the ability to get most out of his players playing to or beyond their potential. Imagine the following:

Klay Thompson on another team would have been the next Austin Daye, but has emerged as the best shooter in the game.
Harrison Barnes could easily been the next tweener SF who hasn't met his potential ie Marvin Williams but watching him play in the playoffs i kept reminding myself he's a rookie
Curry wasn't a great defender but played ok under the system and it also helped that he shot lights out --> Jimmer
Ezelli, Drummond Green, Bazemore? These guys would have been scrubs on other teams yet they played with energy and has impacted the game night in night out especially in the playoffs

I'm hoping a fresh start for Evans, Cousins and Jimmer under the new coaching staff. I was kind of hoping we still had T.Robinson he would have been the perfect off the bench energy guy ie. Landry for the Warriors. I believe under coach Malone if you buy into his system (full effort and tough D) and willing to improve you will get better and become the best player for the team.

If you like Jimmer on this board prepare to be bombarded with negativity. I agree with you though.

 

[The_Jamal]

these things are weighted in professional sports, friend. tyreke evans is a physically gifted penetrator of elite skill level in the nba, a potential all-star, and the kind of asset you cannot allow to walk out the door unless someone out there is willing to throw insane money at him, while isaiah thomas is a physically-limited change-of-pace guard that is clearly not without talent or drive. but it's certainly not hypocrisy to say that it is imperative to hold onto a guy with tyreke evans' talent and physical gifts, and that it's no major loss to let go of a guy with considerably less valuable talent and physical gifts in isaiah thomas...

that said, i'm not in disagreement with you. small market franchise management is about maximizing your assets. outside of demarcus cousins, who the kings have no intention of trading, marcus thornton and jason thompson are the only kings under contract who can bring back a useful level of talent in return, given both their own talent level and the size of their respective contracts, and the kings have needs that it could potentially meet with those trade returns. in such an instance you move marcus thornton if there is a player on the other side that better fits the needs of this team, and you shift isaiah thomas into a full-time sixth man role, where he's best-suited. thornton may be a more explosive scorer, but thomas is much cheaper for a significant rotation player coming off the bench...

I understand all of this. It's just.. well amusing... that people are willing to let IT walk for $1mil, when he could and would be at least a rotational player on 29 other teams. Some a starter. If we don't have any plans to keep him, fine. Then we use him as a trade asset in a deal to unload someone else. Or unload for a future 1st round pick. You better believe playoff teams would be chomping at the bit to get their hands on IT for just a 1st rounder. Especially (assuming IT has a good year), they'll be able to lock him up to a $4-$6mil contract range. That's damn solid for a 6 MOY with his offensive numbers

 

[Dime Dropper]

If you like Jimmer on this board prepare to be bombarded with negativity. I agree with you though.

Sigh. I don't know anyone here that dislikes Jimmer. He seems like a really nice guy. But he's not ready to play and that's blatantly obvious. He can shoot it, but no handles, no defense, not very athletic, undersized for a SG. Just doesn't look good. And expecting him to get minutes ahead of McLemore, Tyreke, Thornton, IT is just silly. I have no idea what you guys see that suggests he deserves more minutes.

 

[Dime Dropper]

I understand all of this. It's just.. well amusing... that people are willing to let IT walk for $1mil, when he could and would be at least a rotational player on 29 other teams. Some a starter. If we don't have any plans to keep him, fine. Then we use him as a trade asset in a deal to unload someone else. Or unload for a future 1st round pick. You better believe playoff teams would be chomping at the bit to get their hands on IT for just a 1st rounder. Especially (assuming IT has a good year), they'll be able to lock him up to a $4-$6mil contract range. That's damn solid for a 6 MOY with his offensive numbers

I'm not the biggest IT fan but I certainly don't want to let him go. Doesn't it seem likely that his option was already picked up due to the amount of games/minutes he played last season? Pretty sure I read that here though not sure of it's accuracy. So don't think there's a need for all this debate. It's a no-brainer.

 

[sdballer]

I understand all of this. It's just.. well amusing... that people are willing to let IT walk for $1mil, when he could and would be at least a rotational player on 29 other teams. Some a starter. If we don't have any plans to keep him, fine. Then we use him as a trade asset in a deal to unload someone else. Or unload for a future 1st round pick. You better believe playoff teams would be chomping at the bit to get their hands on IT for just a 1st rounder. Especially (assuming IT has a good year), they'll be able to lock him up to a $4-$6mil contract range. That's damn solid for a 6 MOY with his offensive numbers

I'm actually curious to see the market for IT. Undersized guys have always had a hard time getting long term deals in that range. I think he made have a hard time getting anything outside the 1-2 years at around 3M. A little smaller deal than Nate got in ny, which I think they regretted.

 

[The_Jamal]

If anything, I think the McCallum pick shows how little confidence we have in Jimmer to become a rotational player.

 

[Darth Divac]

I would get rid of Thornton and McCallum. I would have a three guard rotation of McLemore, Evans, and Isaiah, with Jimmer as the injury insurance guard.

Sub Isaiah for McCallum. McCallum is the same player as IT, but better BBIQ, size, and he's less selfish.

 

[Dime Dropper]

Sub Isaiah for McCallum. McCallum is the same player as IT, but better BBIQ, size, and he's less selfish.

It's a stretch to say that McCallum will come in and have the same impact as IT. It's possible, but unlikely. Most 2nd round picks don't. I really doubt you've seen enough of McCallum to really believe what you just said.

 

[funkykingston]

It's a stretch to say that McCallum will come in and have the same impact as IT. It's possible, but unlikely. Most 2nd round picks don't. I really doubt you've seen enough of McCallum to really believe what you just said.

Agreed. I watch quite a bit of college basketball and I can't recall seeing a Detroit game, let alone scouted McCallum. I think Isaiah Thomas is best suited as a change of pace PG on a good team and is only a starter on a cellar dweller, but let's not go overboard in terms of diminishing what he has done or what he's capable of. Regardless of size, IT is an NBA level talent who can help a team. You can't say that about the majority of second round picks after a couple years.

 

[The_Jamal]

Sub Isaiah for McCallum. McCallum is the same player as IT, but better BBIQ, size, and he's less selfish.

You have literally no idea what you're talking about.

 

[Kingster]

I think the pick of McCallum is a huge signal that IT will not be with the Kings next year. Whether he is signed and traded or just let go makes no difference to me. I suppose it makes sense to let him battle it out with McCallum but it isn't enough to get heated about. Not for me.

On what basis? You do realize that most 2nd round picks don't even play in the NBA, right? And that IT playing as a starter after being drafted in the 2nd round is the exception, not the rule? Right? Look, if the Kings just picked a pg in the first round who they thought was the best player in the draft, I could definitely see the logic in speculating that IT would be the backup next year, or possibly be traded. But this idea that IT is gone because of a second rounder is as baseless as saying that Tyreke would be gone if they drafted a 2nd round 2- guard.

 

[funkykingston]

On what basis? You do realize that most 2nd round picks don't even play in the NBA, right? And that IT playing as a starter after being drafted in the 2nd round is the exception, not the rule? Right? Look, if the Kings just picked a pg in the first round who they thought was the best player in the draft, I could definitely see the logic in speculating that IT would be the backup next year, or possibly be traded. But this idea that IT is gone because of a second rounder is as baseless as saying that Tyreke would be gone if they drafted a 2nd round 2- guard.

I can't imagine the Kings not picking up IT's option. He's a quality NBA player that can be had for peanuts, relatively speaking.

And that being the case, he's the default starting PG of the Kings for the moment and possibly much longer if Tyreke is not re-signed. At BEST, McCallum would serve as Thomas' backup. There is the odd chance that he too is that rare, special 2nd rounder that makes everyone regret passing on him and who is starting during his rookie season, but the odds aren't great for that. If he's a player at all on the NBA level then he was a good draft pick.