How does everyone feel about a Robinson/Cuz pairing?

[Krunker]

Only scenario in which I agree with taking Robinson, is if because of the salary saved between what JT would sign for and Robinsons rookie contract, we go out and get a rim protector, or at least a damn good defensive and rebounding PF who pairs well with Cuz, partly with the extra cap space we'll have due to the salary difference between JT and Robinson.

More likely the Maloofs would just pocket the salary difference instead of using it toward a defensive big, but one can hope. I agree that if we pick up Robinson then JT is not coming back. I think Robinson will be better than JT after a couple years, though. He'll probably be blooming right when his rookie contract is up!

 

[mac]

Yeah we don't need talent on this team. Lets just get some random shot blocker at power forward and poof the Kings are in the playoffs. I remember some team oh about ten years ago they were pretty good, best record in the league one game away from going to the NBA finals except three refs in game six decided they wanted a game seven. I can't quite remember the name of that team but I don't remember too many shot blockers. I remember a slow white guy at center who was a pretty good passer and tall dude with bum wheels at PF who was a pretty good offensive player. Man I wish I could remember that team, too bad we don't have players like that now.

Yea we don't, which is exactly why we should follow a more conventional route and get a shotblocker. You remember one team in the last 10 years that made it to the wcf without a shotblocker or defensive big. I remember 10x as many that won it all or made it as deep with one.

 

[The_Jamal]

Yea we don't, which is exactly why we should follow a more conventional route and get a shotblocker. You remember one team in the last 10 years that made it to the wcf without a shotblocker or defensive big. I remember 10x as many that won it all or made it as deep with one.

Here's the difference. The kind of shotblocker you get has to be a difference maker defensively and not just an athlete who can jump high and block shots. The Chandler/Ibaka/Garnett/Duncan's of the world change the defensive culture of their team with their presence. The Haywood/Dalembert/Jordan/McGee (as starters) do not hold near the same impact because they aren't near the caliber of defensive players the 1st 4 guys I mentioned are.

 

[KingsCitizen]

I'd say T-Rob will easily boost our front court scoring and possibly rebounding (even if I see him being really an undersized PF like Bass but quicker). On another note, 3 of the 4 conference finals teams this season actually use undersized PF most of the time. Bass for the Celtics, Haslem for the Heat, Diaw for Spurs.

IMO, the real stabilizer if we draft T-Rob is actually Hassan. If this kid stops getting lost in rotations and gets consistent minutes we'll be good moving forward with Cousins and T-Rob.

 

[twslam07]

We can't deal THompson -- he's a FA.

Robinson is not necessarily BPA in the OPs scenario, he's who we take to be safe. Now given that he would have had to slip all the way to #5 in a 5 1/2 player draft in order for us to get him, maybe he is BPA, but as I've mentioned that could be about time to pick up the phone and see if anybody will give you something for that pick. Proven pros = much less risky than drafted kids. And if you're going ot curl up into a little ball and draft safe -- kinda like drafting Wesley Johnson and Evan Turner over Cousins was "safe", or drafting Jimmer as a 4yr guy was "safe", then you might as well go real safe.

Obviously we can't trade a free agent. If you understood my post you wouldn't have made your statement.

"Remember there is a long trading period after the draft and free agency where we can try to balance out our roster. "

This quote is from my post. You sign him during free agency and trade him after. AKA sign and trade

 

[beb0p]

Found this picture of the three potential lottery draftees. In case you don't know, the guy on the left and the guy in the middle are both 6'-10", or at least that's what they are listed at.

 

[KingsCitizen]

Found this picture of the three potential lottery draftees. In case you don't know, the guy on the left and the guy in the middle are both 6'-10", or at least that's what they are listed at.

I have to see first what kind of shoes are they wearing. LOL

 

[twslam07]

Found this picture of the three potential lottery draftees. In case you don't know, the guy on the left and the guy in the middle are both 6'-10", or at least that's what they are listed at.

I hope Robinson is the one in the middle!

 

[bajaden]

BTW, a little comparison here. Kansas has now turned out 3 NBA PFs in two years. Same coach, same system, should give you something to maybe go on when comparing everybody statistically:

10-11 Markieff Morris 24.4min 13.6pts (.589 .424 .673) 8.3reb 1.4ast 0.8stl 1.1blk 2.1TO (17.7pts 10.8reb in same min)
10-11 Marcus Morris 28.3min 17.3pts (.570 .342 .688) 7.6reb 1.6ast 0.8stl 0.6blk 1.8TO (19.4pts 8.5reb in same min)
11-12 Thomas Robin 31.8min 17.7pts (.505 --- .682) 11.9reb 1.8ast 1.1stl 0.9blk 2.7TO

I like Robinson's attitude and I like his athelticism. He appears to play balls to the wall. BUT, the Morris twins aren't anything in the NBA. And all those guys were in similar size ranges, same age (juniors), all put up similar numbers across the board, except Robinson is the better rebounder (although the gap narrows once minutes are taken into account -- Markieff would have averaged 17.7pts 10.8reb in Robinson's minutes.) while the Morris's were both more efficient offensively and could shoot 3's. Hence I think there is reason to be dubious this is a high lottery pick singular type talent.

I know no one listens to me, but I said that the Morris twins were overrated. They were fundamentally sound, undersized PF's, that wern't all that athletic. I also said at the end of their last college season, to keep an eye on a player named Thomas Robinson because in limited minutes, he showed he was one of the best per minute rebounders in college. There is no comparison between the Morris twins, and Robinson. Athleticly, Robinson is superman by comparison.

So maybe the fact that I didn't like the Morris twins, and that I do like Robinson, will carry some weight. And by the way, I don't like Kansas style basketball either. But thats not Robinson's fault.

I'm also confused as to why drafting Robinson, means JT has to go. I just don't follow the logic in that. If money is the issue, then fine. I have no idea whether the Maloos will spend or not. Yeah yeah, I know some of you know all those answers. But I don't, so I'm not going to pretend I do. I also have no idea why everyone believes that its an absolute necessity to have a shotblocker to make the playoffs or win a championship. I mean its certainly a nice luxury to have, but many championships have been won without one. Just like many championships have been won without a so called true PG.

Teamwork wins championships. Of course you have to have talent on the team. I just watched the Celtics beat the Heat. And they won because of talent, but mostly because they played as a team, and the Heat didn't. By the way, I don't remember seeing any big time shotblockers on either team. Unless you want to count granny Garnett as one. He played a hell of a game by the way

 

[KingsCitizen]

Found this picture of the three potential lottery draftees. In case you don't know, the guy on the left and the guy in the middle are both 6'-10", or at least that's what they are listed at.

And Markieff Morris was listed 6'10"?

 

[Bricklayer]

Found this picture of the three potential lottery draftees. In case you don't know, the guy on the left and the guy in the middle are both 6'-10", or at least that's what they are listed at.

Whoa. The combine measurements are going to be very interesting. Drummond v. Robinson you knew, although not that much. But while it oculd be an optical illusion because he's standing forward, Barnes looks taller than Robinson too.

 

[ParniValjak]

Whoa. The combine measurements are going to be very interesting. Drummond v. Robinson you knew, although not that much. But while it oculd be an optical illusion because he's standing forward, Barnes looks taller than Robinson too.

This scares me even more considering the fetish your front office has for stubby "bigs"!

And another one is that Robinson in that photo is wearing a purple bow tie!

 

[mac]

I know no one listens to me, but I said that the Morris twins were overrated. They were fundamentally sound, undersized PF's, that wern't all that athletic. I also said at the end of their last college season, to keep an eye on a player named Thomas Robinson because in limited minutes, he showed he was one of the best per minute rebounders in college. There is no comparison between the Morris twins, and Robinson. Athleticly, Robinson is superman by comparison.

So maybe the fact that I didn't like the Morris twins, and that I do like Robinson, will carry some weight. And by the way, I don't like Kansas style basketball either. But thats not Robinson's fault.

I'm also confused as to why drafting Robinson, means JT has to go. I just don't follow the logic in that. If money is the issue, then fine. I have no idea whether the Maloos will spend or not. Yeah yeah, I know some of you know all those answers. But I don't, so I'm not going to pretend I do. I also have no idea why everyone believes that its an absolute necessity to have a shotblocker to make the playoffs or win a championship. I mean its certainly a nice luxury to have, but many championships have been won without one. Just like many championships have been won without a so called true PG.

Teamwork wins championships. Of course you have to have talent on the team. I just watched the Celtics beat the Heat. And they won because of talent, but mostly because they played as a team, and the Heat didn't. By the way, I don't remember seeing any big time shotblockers on either team. Unless you want to count granny Garnett as one. He played a hell of a game by the way

Ah Baja... I really respect your opinion when it comes to college players (especially because I know nothing of them). But right now I'm a little disappointed with your Jimmer pick (which I was really excited about too. Was fantasizing about Jimmer draining 3s from Tyreke's kickouts). I shall put my faith in you once again, but if we go wrong on one of the guys you're promoting, I'm gonna have to consider cancelling my Bajaden college basketball guru subscription

 

[bajaden]

Ah Baja... I really respect your opinion when it comes to college players (especially because I know nothing of them). But right now I'm a little disappointed with your Jimmer pick (which I was really excited about too. Was fantasizing about Jimmer draining 3s from Tyreke's kickouts). I shall put my faith in you once again, but if we go wrong on one of the guys you're promoting, I'm gonna have to consider cancelling my Bajaden college basketball guru subscription

Well its free, so as they say, you get what you pay for. As for Jimmer, he wasn't my personal pick, he was the pick I thought the Kings would make. I happened to know someone that attended some of the workouts, and was told that he believed the Kings, especially Westphal and the Maloof's were very high on him at the workout. So I just took it from there. I wasn't a big Kemba Walker fan, but would have been fine with him. My personal choice would have been Knight, or Leonard. Although I had reservations about Leonards outside shot.

Once I figured it was going to be Jimmer, I tried to look at his positives. However, I did point out that he had never played a lick of defense at BYU. The thing that surprised me the most this past season was his tendecy to pass up shots he used to take in college. I know the knock on him, is that he had trouble creating his own shot. But there were times where he created space, and just didn't take the shot. Don't know why, but maybe he was just feeling his way to see what he could or could not do.

I haven't given up on him. Way too early. But when it comes to the draft, I've had my share of mistakes. Its a learning process just like everything else. And as time goes on, you start to figure out where and why you made those mistakes. In the end, its all subjective. But the more information you can have about a player, the more likely you are to get it right.

It can be hard though. You have to consider the division they play in. Who are their teammates? Are you looking at a C/PF on a guard oriented team? Whats the track record of the head coach as it pertains to the positon they play? Were they played out of position? So when a top highschool big like Drummond decides to go to UCONN, a school not noted for developing big men, you have to take that into consideration. Georgia Tech is another school thats terrible at developing bigs.

Anyway, the subscription is free. So hopefully you'll renew. Thank god I took those typing classes in highschool. At least I learned something helpful.

 

[JB_kings]

Found this picture of the three potential lottery draftees. In case you don't know, the guy on the left and the guy in the middle are both 6'-10", or at least that's what they are listed at.

I think Drummond is a legit 6-10 or 6-10.5 in shoes. Which leaves fans of Robinson hoping that he was standing in a hole in this picture. Might have to revise my Robinson guess to even lower. Maybe 6-7 to 6-7.5 in bare feet?

 

[gunks]

Heres a thought:

JT is up for a payraise. Robinson could replace him and would be on a dirt cheap rookie contract. We have broke Magoofs for owners.


As to the Robinson/DMC pairing....It would be ok. I'd prefer a shotblocker. We're essentially going to have a Millsap/Jefferson style frontcourt if we go the Robinson route.

 

[roasthawg]

Well its free, so as they say, you get what you pay for. As for Jimmer, he wasn't my personal pick, he was the pick I thought the Kings would make. I happened to know someone that attended some of the workouts, and was told that he believed the Kings, especially Westphal and the Maloof's were very high on him at the workout. So I just took it from there. I wasn't a big Kemba Walker fan, but would have been fine with him. My personal choice would have been Knight, or Leonard. Although I had reservations about Leonards outside shot.

Once I figured it was going to be Jimmer, I tried to look at his positives. However, I did point out that he had never played a lick of defense at BYU. The thing that surprised me the most this past season was his tendecy to pass up shots he used to take in college. I know the knock on him, is that he had trouble creating his own shot. But there were times where he created space, and just didn't take the shot. Don't know why, but maybe he was just feeling his way to see what he could or could not do.

I haven't given up on him. Way too early. But when it comes to the draft, I've had my share of mistakes. Its a learning process just like everything else. And as time goes on, you start to figure out where and why you made those mistakes. In the end, its all subjective. But the more information you can have about a player, the more likely you are to get it right.

It can be hard though. You have to consider the division they play in. Who are their teammates? Are you looking at a C/PF on a guard oriented team? Whats the track record of the head coach as it pertains to the positon they play? Were they played out of position? So when a top highschool big like Drummond decides to go to UCONN, a school not noted for developing big men, you have to take that into consideration. Georgia Tech is another school thats terrible at developing bigs.

Anyway, the subscription is free. So hopefully you'll renew. Thank god I took those typing classes in highschool. At least I learned something helpful.

I wanted Jimmer the whole time and I still like the pick. I've actually been on an amazing role as a Kings fan where they've taken the exact guy I wanted the last three drafts in a row starting with Tyreke. I'm not giving up on Jimmer yet... I think he's eventually gonna figure out his role in this league and be very good at it.

As far as this year goes got no one I'm in love with yet. Of the guys we have any shot at taking I think Beal and MKG are my favorite in that order but I think both will probably be gone and I don't see us trading up to the third pick to get one. Of the rest I still like Barnes the best at this point as I place a high value on shooting and size and he gets pretty high marks in each category.

 

[Spike]

More likely the Maloofs would just pocket the salary difference

I think this is more of a reality than people are willing to acknowledge.

 

[hrdboild]

I think you all have officially gone crazy. We're looking at photographs of dudes in suits and analyzing them for draft information now? Oh my lord.

 

[Uncia03]

BTW, a little comparison here. Kansas has now turned out 3 NBA PFs in two years. Same coach, same system, should give you something to maybe go on when comparing everybody statistically:

10-11 Markieff Morris 24.4min 13.6pts (.589 .424 .673) 8.3reb 1.4ast 0.8stl 1.1blk 2.1TO (17.7pts 10.8reb in same min)
10-11 Marcus Morris 28.3min 17.3pts (.570 .342 .688) 7.6reb 1.6ast 0.8stl 0.6blk 1.8TO (19.4pts 8.5reb in same min)
11-12 Thomas Robin 31.8min 17.7pts (.505 --- .682) 11.9reb 1.8ast 1.1stl 0.9blk 2.7TO

I like Robinson's attitude and I like his athelticism. He appears to play balls to the wall. BUT, the Morris twins aren't anything in the NBA. And all those guys were in similar size ranges, same age (juniors), all put up similar numbers across the board, except Robinson is the better rebounder (although the gap narrows once minutes are taken into account -- Markieff would have averaged 17.7pts 10.8reb in Robinson's minutes.) while the Morris's were both more efficient offensively and could shoot 3's. Hence I think there is reason to be dubious this is a high lottery pick singular type talent.

As mentioned, I'm not a big fan of Kansas.
I thought Aldrich might be a defensive big for the Kings if we couldn't get Cousins. Wasn't really high on him, but might have filled a need. Once the measurements came out, he was definitely not someone we'd want to pick up due to his poor measurements.

I never liked either of the Morris Twins, just like I don't like the Plumlee brothers this year.

Robinson completely outclasses the Morris twins when you look at NBA athleticism and physicality, and it's not even close.
I'll be saying this till draft day, but it all depends on the measurements with Robinson. If he measures out well, then his quickness and strength for the position is elite. If he measures out poorly, then he'll be undersized and I would have a problem pairing him with Cousins and would be in favor of trading the pick to address the needs of the team and balance the roster.

But I'm not going to disregard Robinson if he measures out well, just because past teammates (Morris twins/Aldrich who I didn't think would be impact players at the NBA level) came from the same school and haven't panned out.

As to the JT issue, here's my take.

Cousins is your go-to big.
JT is a fantastic 3rd big.
You want a 25-30 mpg defensive role-playing starter next to Cousins to have the best/most balanced line-up.

If you can't have that then I believe the the 2nd tier down is a physical PF who can rebound and hustle.

Robinson fits that mold. He's physical, he rebounds, and he happens to have the NBA body and athleticism to perform at the most elite levels.

So while he doesn't address the shotblocking defensive-shut-down aspect, at least he will play with elite physicality, and I think you can still be a successful team provided that you have that dominant physicality on the front-line.

But if he measures poorly, I have no problems packaging that pick to get a veteran player or pieces to balance out the roster. (Iggy or Lowry/Taylor, ect.)

 

[TTown Kings]

I'd rather gamble on Drummond and re-sign JT. At least Drummond gives us a full size big that can block shots and rebound. At the worst he doesn't develop offensively, which we don't need out of him anyway.

 

[Uncia03]

Ah Baja... I really respect your opinion when it comes to college players (especially because I know nothing of them). But right now I'm a little disappointed with your Jimmer pick (which I was really excited about too. Was fantasizing about Jimmer draining 3s from Tyreke's kickouts). I shall put my faith in you once again, but if we go wrong on one of the guys you're promoting, I'm gonna have to consider cancelling my Bajaden college basketball guru subscription

I watched Jimmer a ton, but always felt he was a mid-1st pick, so he wasn't on my list with our 7th pick. ( I would have taken Knight)
Once we traded Beno to shore up the SF position in obtaining Salmons (which obviously failed) it seemed obvious to me that we'd be taking Jimmer with the 10th pick.

I was really perplexed with Jimmer all last season as he didn't play with anything near the level of confidence that he displayed while at BYU.

He's never going to be successful if you play him as an undersized 2 who just spots up and waits for the kick-out. If he's going to succeed in the league it's going to have to be as a combo-guard who can run the pick-and-roll, find open teammates off the dribble, as well as be available to hit the open shot.

The surprising thing to me was that at BYU he was constantly hounded by the team's defense, getting double and triple-teamed on a frequent basis, and he showed the ball-handling to with-stand that pressure as well as the court vision to find the open man. We saw absolutely none of that from him this last year, and if he has any hope of being an NBA player, that is what he needs to focus on and bring to the court with confidence.

I'm sure he'll be hard at work on it this off-season, so I'm looking forward to seeing how they will play him in Summer League. I'm not giving up on him, but he has a lot to prove this upcoming year.

 

[Uncia03]

I'd rather gamble on Drummond and re-sign JT. At least Drummond gives us a full size big that can block shots and rebound. At the worst he doesn't develop offensively, which we don't need out of him anyway.

This is a big mis-conception.

When I was watching him at UCONN I wasn't even looking at him on the offensive end. For a defensive role-player any offense you get from them is just the cherry on top.
I was watching him to have an impact on the defensive end of the floor, rebounding the basketball, stonewalling his opponent, and intimidating anyone trying to get into the lane.
He greatly disappointed all season long on the fundamentals that you expect from a defensive role-playing big man.

So at worst he doesn't have what it takes to be a defensive role-player AND he doesn't develop an offensive game.

Again, I'll take the risk of picking him if I can't get a trade put together and it's him and Robinson and Robinson is undersized, but it's not a pick that I'll be jumping for joy about, because he could be a 12th man or out of the league in 3/4 years.

 

[bajaden]

I wanted Jimmer the whole time and I still like the pick. I've actually been on an amazing role as a Kings fan where they've taken the exact guy I wanted the last three drafts in a row starting with Tyreke. I'm not giving up on Jimmer yet... I think he's eventually gonna figure out his role in this league and be very good at it.

As far as this year goes got no one I'm in love with yet. Of the guys we have any shot at taking I think Beal and MKG are my favorite in that order but I think both will probably be gone and I don't see us trading up to the third pick to get one. Of the rest I still like Barnes the best at this point as I place a high value on shooting and size and he gets pretty high marks in each category.

Well the two players that I fell in love with this season will be gone by the time we pick. At least one will anyway. There's probably a small chance in hell that Gilchrist might slide to us, but I doubt it. I like Beal, but drafting him presents other problems, unless we make a trade. As a matter of fact, if we draft Beal, I think its an indication that the Kings have already worked out a trade with someone. Thats as far as I'll speculate on that. I like Robinson, but as I said, if he comes in under 6'9", my love will depreciate appropiately with each half inch lost. We should know in 3 or 4 days what his true measurements are.

There are two teams picking ahead of us that appear to like Barnes, so our odds of getting him seem slimmer. But you never know. GM's like to throw out this kind of stuff to confuse things. The only sure bet is Davis going number one. After that its a crapshoot. The shocker would be the Bobcats taking Drummond. I know it rumored that they want Robinson, but they really don't have a need at the PF position, and Robinson can't play center. Their biggest need is SF, so I just can't see them passing on MKG, or perhaps Barnes. Who knows?

 

[Gary]

I am thinking Robinson will measure between 6'9.25 and 6'10 in shoes (which is fine)..

Drummond on the other hand will measure 6'11.5 in shoes.

Mark this post. I tend to know these things.. Or at least guess correctly in most cases. Remember Kevin Love? Also, remember Darrell Arthur?

 

[Gary]

Oh, BTW look at this pic... Don't take a photo as proof of how tall someone if.. It will bite ya in the rear more times than not.

 

[Bricklayer]

Oh, BTW look at this pic... Don't take a photo as proof of how tall someone if.. It will bite ya in the rear more times than not.

No this pic is obviously tailored to precisely be deceptive. Classicly so with the camera set low and one individual much closer to the camera than the others. That first pic though is something Robinson should burn, because he and Drummond are just standing there shoulder to shoulder, or should I say shoulder to tricep.

Robinson's best hope is that Drummond has grown and is now pushing 7 feet. Which still won't help him vis a vis Drummond as a prospect, but could allow him to be big enough to avoid being another Kenny Thomas.

BTW, Barnes knows how to dress.

Andre....not so much. And I don't even want to talk about purple bow tie/hanky combos.

 

[Gary]

This is a big mis-conception.

When I was watching him at UCONN I wasn't even looking at him on the offensive end. For a defensive role-player any offense you get from them is just the cherry on top.
I was watching him to have an impact on the defensive end of the floor, rebounding the basketball, stonewalling his opponent, and intimidating anyone trying to get into the lane.
He greatly disappointed all season long on the fundamentals that you expect from a defensive role-playing big man.

So at worst he doesn't have what it takes to be a defensive role-player AND he doesn't develop an offensive game.

Again, I'll take the risk of picking him if I can't get a trade put together and it's him and Robinson and Robinson is undersized, but it's not a pick that I'll be jumping for joy about, because he could be a 12th man or out of the league in 3/4 years.

He has an impact when he wants to have an impact. He took as many plays off as he defended. He's not even the top defender in the draft and there are players down the draft who are better. So he needs offense, or he's just a big school overhyped bust waiting to happen.

 

[Gary]

No this pic is obviously tailored to precisely be deceptive. Classicly so with the camera set low and one individual much closer to the camera than the others. That first pic though is something Robinson should burn, because he and Drummond are just standing there shoulder to shoulder, or should I say shoulder to tricep.

Robinson's best hope is that Drummond has grown and is now pushing 7 feet. Which still won't help him vis a vis Drummond as a prospect, but could allow him to be big enough to avoid being another Kenny Thomas.

That first pic Robinson is behind them, and even turned towards the back. Obviously Barnes is not that tall when comparing the three. Robinson already measured 6'10 in shoes.

Take a look at the shadows in the first pic.. Robinson's arm and elbow are higher than the other two meaning he's closer to the wall.

EDIT: and look how the wall curves so Robinson is definitely behind the other two. Not by much, but enough to throw that pic out as being the end all for height comparison. It shouldn't be judged the way it is here.

 

[The_Jamal]

We're analyzing freaking photgraphs.

Just wait for the combine