Gut feeling on Arena issue?

[VF21]

Would $650 million be an offer they couldn't refuse to take?

Again, you're asking a question that no one here can possibly answer. I could say, "Yes, of course" but what would that mean? Just that a fan on a sports message board thinks the owners of an NBA franchise would accept a certain amount of money to surrender their interest in the team.

 

[One and Done]

bajaden that seems like where things are headed.

Given their past behavior and dwindling fortunes, I could also see them packing up in the middle of the night and turning this thing into a legal/publicity nightmare. I could also see the scenario where they sell to Seattle's Hansen, having been forced by the NBA or having no other choice as the family goes bankrupt. I really can see them holding onto the team until they're legally forced out.

 

[bajaden]

bajaden that seems like where things are headed.

Given their past behavior and dwindling fortunes, I could also see them packing up in the middle of the night and turning this thing into a legal/publicity nightmare. I could also see the scenario where they sell to Seattle's Hansen, having been forced by the NBA or having no other choice as the family goes bankrupt. I really can see them holding onto the team until they're legally forced out.

The problem with them selling to Hansen, is that it can't happen unless the league approves the sale, which isn't likely to happen. Right now their boxed in and the only other conclusion I can see other than them coming back to the table, or selling to an owner that will keep the team here, is taking it to court. Something that will be very costly to a family that doesn't have a lot of money to start with.

 

[Gary]

Yah I have a feeling that the Maloofs won't stick around here for very long. They will either get approval to move and then sell the team or move it without permission and file suit. I don't think there is much chance they stay in Sacramento. Maybe a 5% to 10% chance? I have already said my goodbyes, and I don't think the town will fight as hard the second time around so I think the move gets approved.

 

[bajaden]

Would $650 million be an offer they couldn't refuse to take?

Sure, they'd likely jump at that deal. But whose crazy enough to pay that much? The Warriors just sold for 450 million, and they're in a larger media market with corporate sponsers in every direction they turn. The Hornets sold for 310 million, and they were valued at around 275 million. Like the Kings, the Hornets owed the league around 100 million dollars. The owners were basicly broke, and the team was losing. Very similar to the current status of the Kings.

No one in their right mind is going to pay 650 million dollars for the Kings when their actual value is probably close to 300 million or less. I'll say it again, rich people don't become rich by being stupid. Watch the Shark Tank show on TV sometime and watch Cuban operate. He's a shrewd clever business man who doesn't throw money away. This idea that just because someone is a billioniare, they suddenly don't value their money is nonsense.

 

[bajaden]

Yah I have a feeling that the Maloofs won't stick around here for very long. They will either get approval to move and then sell the team or move it without permission and file suit. I don't think there is much chance they stay in Sacramento. Maybe a 5% to 10% chance? I have already said my goodbyes, and I don't think the town will fight as hard the second time around so I think the move gets approved.

I couldn't disagree more on the end result you predict. I don't think the league will approve a move and if the kings go to court, its likely they lose, and if they do, the league will never give permission to move. I'll say it again! The problem isn't the city, the problem is the ownership. If they don't have the money to run the franchise here, they won't have the money to run the franchise in another city. If they want to sell, then they can sell to someone that will keep the team here. If your the league and you want to solve the problem, you don't punish the city, you go after the Maloofs.

 

[Gary]

The reason I believe a move will be granted is because the sponsors are dropping out, and the Maloofs will bring all this up to the league next time they file. Not to mention I don't think the people here have enough fight left in them to go through this again. A lot of my friends and co-workers were upset the first time around and that's all they could talk about. Now it seems that people don't even care and a lot of the same people that were upset are saying they don't care if the Kings move. It's a whole different attitude here in Sac this time around.

 

[VF21]

The reason I believe a move will be granted is because the sponsors are dropping out, and the Maloofs will bring all this up to the league next time they file. Not to mention I don't think the people here have enough fight left in them to go through this again. A lot of my friends and co-workers were upset the first time around and that's all they could talk about. Now it seems that people don't even care and a lot of the same people that were upset are saying they don't care if the Kings move. It's a whole different attitude here in Sac this time around.

I think you're wrong. It's TDOS, which means people who aren't rabid fans aren't thinking about the Kings anyway.

Yes, a certain percentage of people will give up but I honestly doubt if the majority of die-hard Kings fans are ready to roll over and play dead.

 

[bajaden]

I think you're wrong. It's TDOS, which means people who aren't rabid fans aren't thinking about the Kings anyway.

Yes, a certain percentage of people will give up but I honestly doubt if the majority of die-hard Kings fans are ready to roll over and play dead.

I know I'm not! I've never understood the losing mentality. I have to pull back a little here, because I get very frustrated with people that just throw in the towel. And worse, they try and justify it. You know what, go root for another team because I don't want losers on my team. To quote Vince Lombardi, "Show me a good loser, and I'll show you a loser". The game isn't over, and you fight till it is. Period!

 

[Section 101]

The reason I believe a move will be granted is because the sponsors are dropping out, and the Maloofs will bring all this up to the league next time they file. Not to mention I don't think the people here have enough fight left in them to go through this again. A lot of my friends and co-workers were upset the first time around and that's all they could talk about. Now it seems that people don't even care and a lot of the same people that were upset are saying they don't care if the Kings move. It's a whole different attitude here in Sac this time around.

You forget the league was running the Kings last year basically for getting sponsors etc. If they see a drop off they will know the Maloofs aren't doing their jobs.

 

[butteredbiscuit]

Sure, they'd likely jump at that deal. But whose crazy enough to pay that much? The Warriors just sold for 450 million, and they're in a larger media market with corporate sponsers in every direction they turn. The Hornets sold for 310 million, and they were valued at around 275 million. Like the Kings, the Hornets owed the league around 100 million dollars. The owners were basicly broke, and the team was losing. Very similar to the current status of the Kings.

No one in their right mind is going to pay 650 million dollars for the Kings when their actual value is probably close to 300 million or less. I'll say it again, rich people don't become rich by being stupid. Watch the Shark Tank show on TV sometime and watch Cuban operate. He's a shrewd clever business man who doesn't throw money away. This idea that just because someone is a billioniare, they suddenly don't value their money is nonsense.

I was reading something about George was hoping for $600m with a move to Anaheim. So then he doesn't like Sacramento, so maybe to sell the Kings to an local person keeping them in Sacramento should be around 50 million. So $650 million sounds about right. Does that mean he will get that? NO! But is that what he looking for to sell the team? Could be!

If you had the money and your a Kings fan and George came to you and said Im selling out of state for less but I will offer it to you for 650 to keep it here would you? If I loved the Kings, I would do anything to keep it there.

 

[Warhawk]

I was reading something about George was hoping for $600m with a move to Anaheim. So then he doesn't like Sacramento, so maybe to sell the Kings to an local person keeping them in Sacramento should be around 50 million. So $650 million sounds about right. Does that mean he will get that? NO! But is that what he looking for to sell the team? Could be!

If you had the money and your a Kings fan and George came to you and said Im selling out of state for less but I will offer it to you for 650 to keep it here would you? If I loved the Kings, I would do anything to keep it there.

George could hope for a new arena to drop from the sky and land on KJ's head and 100 munchins running around singing "Ding, dong, the mayor's dead."



Doesn't mean it is going to happen.

 

[bajaden]

I was reading something about George was hoping for $600m with a move to Anaheim. So then he doesn't like Sacramento, so maybe to sell the Kings to an local person keeping them in Sacramento should be around 50 million. So $650 million sounds about right. Does that mean he will get that? NO! But is that what he looking for to sell the team? Could be!

If you had the money and your a Kings fan and George came to you and said Im selling out of state for less but I will offer it to you for 650 to keep it here would you? If I loved the Kings, I would do anything to keep it there.

Look, there's fantasy land, and there's reality. The only teams that would fall into the catagory you talking about are the Lakers, the Knicks etc. Huge market teams. Now George can want 650 million, but thats not reality. He's not going to get that much. Thats the dilemma the Maloofs are in. They owe almost as much as the team is worth. Oh they could probably sell for 350 mil and walk away something close to 180 mil. The league has already told them their not moving to Anahiem. Remember, the league also put a 150 million dollar relocation fee on the Anahiem move. This is also the problem Hansen has. He's already committed to close to 200 million for a new arena, so lets say he forks up 450 million for the team. He then has to pay the 150 million relocation fee, so now with the arena, he's into it for something like 800 million dollars, and thats assuming he's not assuming the money owed the city, around 70 million and the league something in excess of 100 million.

You won't be a billionaire very long if your throwing away money at that clip. He'd be better off just building the arena, and waiting to see what popped up that he could buy with the league's blessing. If they broke ground on a new arena tommorow, it would probably be close to 3 years before its ready for action. So there's no hurry on his part, especially if it saves him some money down the road.

 

[Gary]

I sure as hell hope so.. It's hard not to get down when the Maloofs are so crappy to the fans here in Sac.

 

[Trueblood]

Look, there's fantasy land, and there's reality. The only teams that would fall into the catagory you talking about are the Lakers, the Knicks etc. Huge market teams. Now George can want 650 million, but thats not reality. He's not going to get that much. Thats the dilemma the Maloofs are in. They owe almost as much as the team is worth. Oh they could probably sell for 350 mil and walk away something close to 180 mil. The league has already told them their not moving to Anahiem. Remember, the league also put a 150 million dollar relocation fee on the Anahiem move. This is also the problem Hansen has. He's already committed to close to 200 million for a new arena, so lets say he forks up 450 million for the team. He then has to pay the 150 million relocation fee, so now with the arena, he's into it for something like 800 million dollars, and thats assuming he's not assuming the money owed the city, around 70 million and the league something in excess of 100 million.

You won't be a billionaire very long if your throwing away money at that clip. He'd be better off just building the arena, and waiting to see what popped up that he could buy with the league's blessing. If they broke ground on a new arena tommorow, it would probably be close to 3 years before its ready for action. So there's no hurry on his part, especially if it saves him some money down the road.

Agree with everything but the bolded part.

Anaheim has a $150 million relocation fee because the Lakers and Clippers would lose direct tv revenue. I know that the Lakers would lose $15 million a year. Over a 10 year Anaheim lease, that's $150 million that the Lakers lose so that's more or less where the Anaheim relocation fee comes in.

With Hansen, nobody loses much. Maybe Portland loses a bit since they've been on in Seattle since the Sonics left but not enough to warrant a larger than average relocation fee. OKC didn't have to pay more than $30 despite Cuban losing the OKC tv market.

 

[VF21]

Agree with everything but the bolded part.

Anaheim has a $150 million relocation fee because the Lakers and Clippers would lose direct tv revenue. I know that the Lakers would lose $15 million a year. Over a 10 year Anaheim lease, that's $150 million that the Lakers lose so that's more or less where the Anaheim relocation fee comes in.

With Hansen, nobody loses much. Maybe Portland loses a bit since they've been on in Seattle since the Sonics left but not enough to warrant a larger than average relocation fee. OKC didn't have to pay more than $30 despite Cuban losing the OKC tv market.

I think the relocation fee is left up to the league to determine. It's not just because of direct TV revenue.

 

[bajaden]

Agree with everything but the bolded part.

Anaheim has a $150 million relocation fee because the Lakers and Clippers would lose direct tv revenue. I know that the Lakers would lose $15 million a year. Over a 10 year Anaheim lease, that's $150 million that the Lakers lose so that's more or less where the Anaheim relocation fee comes in.

With Hansen, nobody loses much. Maybe Portland loses a bit since they've been on in Seattle since the Sonics left but not enough to warrant a larger than average relocation fee. OKC didn't have to pay more than $30 despite Cuban losing the OKC tv market.

You could be right, but its up to the league to decide. If they want to discourage a Kings move, they can tack on a huge relocation fee if they desire. But I'm not a mind reader so I don't pretend to know what their decision would be. In truth, all they have to do is say no to a move and then the ball is in the Maloofs court. I believe there's a good chance this all ends up in court. I think thats foolhardy on the Maloofs part, but pulling out of the arena deal was foolhardy as well.

I wish I could get my hands on the bylaws of the league. I'm curious to know what recourse the league has with an owner thats undesirable. My gut tells me that the Maloofs are pushing the boundries of those laws. But your right about Seattle, and the relocation fee of moving to Oklahoma City. But also remember, Stern wasn't very happy with the city of Seattle and almost helped them load the trucks. Different story in sacramento. Stern has a vested interest in keeping the team here, and in this case, he's not unhappy with the city, but with the ownership. How all that will play out is unknown.

 

[Jose]

If he thinks he's getting 600+ million for this team, well... I guess he's still taking some magic pills. This team COULD be worth 600+ million if it was debt free, with a new areana, a stable lease in a top market, well managed (top to bottom) and with a contending roster and a rabid fanbase.

So:

650M: base price
- 150M: relo fee they're not going to have to pay to get to Anaheim
- 75M: owed to the city
- 100M: owed to NBA
- 125M: penalty for running the team to the ground and creating such bad blood
-------
200M : what a sane person would pay for this team, knowing the mess they're inheriting and the ~200M in debt they're assuming

Now, this is George we're talking about so sanity should not factor into the equation but still...

The good news is that if that's their price, they'll never be able to sell ... which is also the bad news ... But time is our friend. Something will have to give.

 

[Circa_1985_Fan]

I think if there was a buyer and they stayed here in Sacramento they would love what they're inheriting:
-One horse town(they own the market)
-The most loyal and rabid fanbase, when competitive
-A supportive Mayor/former NBA All Star
-A city/fanbase that's been abused the past 6 years by horrible owners...that's looking for a fresh start with a passionate new owner(s).

So yeah, I think any potential buyer knows what they're inheriting.

 

[Jose]

I think if there was a buyer and they stayed here in Sacramento they would love what they're inheriting:
-One horse town(they own the market)
-The most loyal and rabid fanbase, when competitive
-A supportive Mayor/former NBA All Star
-A city/fanbase that's been abused the past 6 years by horrible owners...that's looking for a fresh start with a passionate new owner(s).

So yeah, I think any potential buyer knows what they're inheriting.

Can't argue with that... but 600+ million is crazy... 400-ish? sure, which when factoring in the debt ends up being about 200M ... If the Maloofs are getting better offers than that and are not selling, then they deserve what's coming to them....

 

[pshn80]

Meantime, while we speak, the hole, representing a good ending for the Maloofs, gets deeper and deeper. Since I don't see them making it here, their desperation to move or come out of ownership of the Kings with some money, increases.

I am an optomist but it's hard in this setting to keep up hope for a good Kings Fans outcome. Cheer me up.

 

[butteredbiscuit]

Can't argue with that... but 600+ million is crazy... 400-ish? sure, which when factoring in the debt ends up being about 200M ... If the Maloofs are getting better offers than that and are not selling, then they deserve what's coming to them....

Well you could look at the LA Dodgers for example who really overpaid for the Dodgers so why couldn't someone overpay for the Kings so they could keep them in Sacramento? I know that we don't want the Kings to move but I think someone is out there that would overpay for the Kings to keep them in town. If 600 million is what George wants to get rid of the team, then if someone who is a billionaire wants to step up and buy it to keep in Sacramento, I support it. I say it because they need to stop it from moving.

Grant Napier said on his show a couple of days ago that he heard from people inside the Kings organization that the Maloofs aren't going to sell, so stop talking about it. Just appreciate what you have. My thing is that if that is a smoke screen, maybe someone should overpay for the team to keep them here. Also some guy from Forbes said that Seattle is going after the Charlotte Bobcats. Need to find that link for u guys.

 

[Section 101]

Well you could look at the LA Dodgers for example who really overpaid for the Dodgers so why couldn't someone overpay for the Kings so they could keep them in Sacramento? I know that we don't want the Kings to move but I think someone is out there that would overpay for the Kings to keep them in town. If 600 million is what George wants to get rid of the team, then if someone who is a billionaire wants to step up and buy it to keep in Sacramento, I support it. I say it because they need to stop it from moving.

Grant Napier said on his show a couple of days ago that he heard from people inside the Kings organization that the Maloofs aren't going to sell, so stop talking about it. Just appreciate what you have. My thing is that if that is a smoke screen, maybe someone should overpay for the team to keep them here. Also some guy from Forbes said that Seattle is going after the Charlotte Bobcats. Need to find that link for u guys.

You overpay for the Dodgers, Yankees, Cowboys, Knicks, Lakers etc. You do not over pay for the Pirates, Padres, Nationals, Cardinals, Jaguars, Bucks, Pacers, etc.

 

[VF21]

Grant Napier said on his show a couple of days ago that he heard from people inside the Kings organization that the Maloofs aren't going to sell, so stop talking about it. Just appreciate what you have. My thing is that if that is a smoke screen, maybe someone should overpay for the team to keep them here. Also some guy from Forbes said that Seattle is going after the Charlotte Bobcats. Need to find that link for u guys.

Grant Napear's paychecks are signed by the Maloofs. What else would you expect him to say?

I think you're way too wrapped up in rumors and "some guy" stuff. The real situation is not going to be discussed publicly or leaked. As for your thought that some billionaire should step up and overpay for the Kings just to keep them in Sacramento? Sorry, but that's borderline delusional. Those guys didn't get to be billionaires by overpaying for their toys. And that's what an NBA franchise is for the majority of owners. They aren't like the Maloofs, who are down to their last asset.

 

[JB_kings]

The selling price is whatever a buyer is willing to pay to get controlling interest in the team. That means buying the Maloofs and Hernriech's percentage. Something like 43 & 10 for a total of 53 percent.

What they are buying is controlling interest of the team and all the assets and assuming all debts. The NBA line of credit repayment is one of those debts. Also paying back the bond holders (not the city!) is one of the many things the new owner would have to deal with once they take control.

 

[SacTownKid]

If he thinks he's getting 600+ million for this team, well... I guess he's still taking some magic pills. This team COULD be worth 600+ million if it was debt free, with a new areana, a stable lease in a top market, well managed (top to bottom) and with a contending roster and a rabid fanbase.

So:

650M: base price
- 150M: relo fee they're not going to have to pay to get to Anaheim
- 75M: owed to the city
- 100M: owed to NBA
- 125M: penalty for running the team to the ground and creating such bad blood
-------
200M : what a sane person would pay for this team, knowing the mess they're inheriting and the ~200M in debt they're assuming

Now, this is George we're talking about so sanity should not factor into the equation but still...

The good news is that if that's their price, they'll never be able to sell ... which is also the bad news ... But time is our friend. Something will have to give.

And these are all probably the only reasons that Sacramento has a shot to keep the Kings. If someone wants to buy them it makes way more sense to keep them in Sacramento with all of those factors involved and nobody is going to spend nearly a billion of their own money to move this team unless it is to New York or LA size market.

 

[Trueblood]

Well you could look at the LA Dodgers for example who really overpaid for the Dodgers so why couldn't someone overpay for the Kings so they could keep them in Sacramento? I know that we don't want the Kings to move but I think someone is out there that would overpay for the Kings to keep them in town. If 600 million is what George wants to get rid of the team, then if someone who is a billionaire wants to step up and buy it to keep in Sacramento, I support it. I say it because they need to stop it from moving.

Grant Napier said on his show a couple of days ago that he heard from people inside the Kings organization that the Maloofs aren't going to sell, so stop talking about it. Just appreciate what you have. My thing is that if that is a smoke screen, maybe someone should overpay for the team to keep them here. Also some guy from Forbes said that Seattle is going after the Charlotte Bobcats. Need to find that link for u guys.

Here's a guy from CBS who mentions the Bobcats but he also mentions the Kings.

http://www.cbssports.com/nba/blog/e...5433/seattle-city-council-approves-arena-deal

 

[Trueblood]

Here's the Forbes article that mentions that Bobcats but he seems to suggest that they are a long shot with the Kings still being the top team.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/kurtbad...eaded-for-seattle-with-new-arena-ready-to-go/

 

[bajaden]

I think if there was a buyer and they stayed here in Sacramento they would love what they're inheriting:
-One horse town(they own the market)
-The most loyal and rabid fanbase, when competitive
-A supportive Mayor/former NBA All Star
-A city/fanbase that's been abused the past 6 years by horrible owners...that's looking for a fresh start with a passionate new owner(s).

So yeah, I think any potential buyer knows what they're inheriting.

You left out, an arena deal already sitting on the table. Actually its a hell of a deal for someone that wants to keep the team here.

 

[Jose]

You left out, an arena deal already sitting on the table. Actually its a hell of a deal for someone that wants to keep the team here.

I think the deal is off the table now, but you are right - there's no reason to think that the City would not approve it again with a willing owner/partner.