Greg Oden?

[ParniValjak]

We need a genuine back up C. This season has been a disaster so far. I swear it's like Maloofs never left.

At least if GP stayed, chances are high that we would still have Tyreke! Now we are worse off, with a blown cap space and overcrowded at the PF spot with average or below average players.

 

[Kingsguy881]

We need a genuine back up C. This season has been a disaster so far. I swear it's like Maloofs never left.

At least if GP stayed, chances are high that we would still have Tyreke! Now we are worse off, with a blown cap space and overcrowded at the PF spot with average or below average players.

This season has been a disaster so far? for fs it hasnt even started!! Man I hate TDOS.

Its like the Maloofs never left? Can we be anynore stupid during TDOS people?

 

[Bricklayer]

This season has been a disaster so far? for fs it hasnt even started!! Man I hate TDOS.

Its like the Maloofs never left? Can we be anynore stupid during TDOS people?

Every single thing that has happened this offseason has stunk of Maloofs/Petrie. Everything. If I changed the script and the Maloofs still owned the team this year, and then said here was the list of offseason moves they made, not one person would blink. Maloofs gonna Maloof. Cheap rookie head coach? Check. Too cheap to resign Reke? Check. Sign retread duplicative offensively oriented free agent to a too big contract? Check. Hop up and down like idiots on draft night? Check. Try to patch the glaring SF hole with a little cheapie 2nd round pick move? Check. We're stuck in Maloofland 2.0.

The interesting question/justification is this: if the Maloofs were trying to subtly tank to kill fan interest, is the exact same behavior thus far an indication the new ownership is trying to subtly tank as well for the next draft? We may be having a ****ty offseason by design. There may be no intention of winning 30 games. That in fact might be considered a failure. Why fix the SF hole when its just going to be filled by Wiggins next year anyway?

 

[Hadlowe]

Every single thing that has happened this offseason has stunk of Maloofs/Petrie. Everything. If I changed the script and the Maloofs still owned the team this year, and then said here was the list of offseason moves they made, not one person would blink. Maloofs gonna Maloof. Cheap rookie head coach? Check. Too cheap to resign Reke? Check. Sign retread duplicative offensively oriented free agent to a too big contract? Check. Hop up and down like idiots on draft night? Check. Try to patch the glaring SF hole with a little cheapie 2nd round pick move? Check. We're stuck in Maloofland 2.0.

The interesting question/justification is this: if the Maloofs were trying to subtly tank to kill fan interest, is the exact same behavior thus far an indication the new ownership is trying to subtly tank as well for the next draft? We may be having a ****ty offseason by design. There may be no intention of winning 30 games. That in fact might be considered a failure. Why fix the SF hole when its just going to be filled by Wiggins next year anyway?

Even then, they'd be doing it wrong. With as hard as some teams are going to be tanking from the start of the season, I imagine we'll end up with 7-9 pick. Bubble playoff is a bad place to be, but so is 7-9. never high enough to get the all-star. Never good enough to attract free agents.

 

[Gary]

Wrong...

This has been the first year that the Kings have been attached to numerous free agents. While we didn't get a marquee free agent we did try. That's better than the past few years under Maloof control.

Get a grip for goodness sake. You negative Nancy boys are getting worse than I was when we originally drafted Reke. Now that's pretty damn negative.

 

[blackice]

Was there any doubt really where he was going to end up? I mean sure...he had NO, Dallas interested as well as the Spurs but lets not kid ourselves, he wasn't going to come here regardless if he would get more playing time here than in Miami. I'm not really sure what our back up plan is because obviously plans A and B didn't go quite according to plan. It looks to me like we will be rolling with Carl backing up JT and Patterson backing up Cousins or something in that sort of fashion.

 

[Uncia03]

Wrong...

This has been the first year that the Kings have been attached to numerous free agents. While we didn't get a marquee free agent we did try. That's better than the past few years under Maloof control.

Get a grip for goodness sake. You negative Nancy boys are getting worse than I was when we originally drafted Reke. Now that's pretty damn negative.

Personally, I think the plan was to try and be competitive by building the roster around Cousins this year.
You bring in AI who is stud player, but one with-out an ego, and then bring in Calderon who is a veteran and could really facilitate the offense and get Cousins easy scoring opportunities and see where it takes you.

However, when they struck out on their FA hopes and realized how difficult it can be to bring players willingly to Sacramento....I believe that they decided that they'd be best off not being competitive this year. Ride out the year, be bad, and hopefully get that high draft pick that will be the #2 player next to Cousins.

Because as Bricklayer has pointed out...if you look at the actual results of the off-season so far...you wouldn't be able to tell the difference between this PDA/Vivek orchestration vs. Petrie/Maloof orchestration. Really all of the moves have been very reminicent of what we've seen the last few off-seasons.

Now the off-season isn't over, so I'm fervently hoping that we see another move or two which will better balance out the roster and make some sense of the moves we've been seeing. But if those moves don't come....then the expectation has to be that we'll be non-competitive this year with the hopes of a pay-off during draft time.

 

[Spike]

The feeling I get is that the FO didn't really realize the challenge that existed in Sacramento. Will they learn from their mistakes? I certainly hope so. This is certainly an auspicious start, but I hope they learn from this.

 

[Uncia03]

The feeling I get is that the FO didn't really realize the challenge that existed in Sacramento. Will they learn from their mistakes? I certainly hope so. This is certainly an auspicious start, but I hope they learn from this.

I agree.

I think this has been one of the biggest angst of those not happy with the FO so far. We all know how hard it has been to bring in impact players to Sacramento as we've been watching for a very long time. So to let an impact player like Tyreke walk is just hard to swallow considering how hard it can be to get talent here in the first place.

 

[HndsmCelt]

Wrong...

This has been the first year that the Kings have been attached to numerous free agents. While we didn't get a marquee free agent we did try. That's better than the past few years under Maloof control.

Get a grip for goodness sake. You negative Nancy boys are getting worse than I was when we originally drafted Reke. Now that's pretty damn negative.

Given how tight lipped Petrie was about any moves he made, and how rumor happy the new front office is I am not sure we can draw any conclusions in trying to compare how active they might or might not have been.

 

[Sac.Kings]

Every single thing that has happened this offseason has stunk of Maloofs/Petrie. Everything. If I changed the script and the Maloofs still owned the team this year, and then said here was the list of offseason moves they made, not one person would blink. Maloofs gonna Maloof. Cheap rookie head coach? Check. Too cheap to resign Reke? Check. Sign retread duplicative offensively oriented free agent to a too big contract? Check. Hop up and down like idiots on draft night? Check. Try to patch the glaring SF hole with a little cheapie 2nd round pick move? Check. We're stuck in Maloofland 2.0.

The interesting question/justification is this: if the Maloofs were trying to subtly tank to kill fan interest, is the exact same behavior thus far an indication the new ownership is trying to subtly tank as well for the next draft? We may be having a ****ty offseason by design. There may be no intention of winning 30 games. That in fact might be considered a failure. Why fix the SF hole when its just going to be filled by Wiggins next year anyway?

In terms of being too cheap to sign Tyreke I would like to point out some things. First, the Pelicans paid him 11 million a year and are not even sure if he's going to start. Who pays 11 million a year for a bench player? Glad it's not us. Second I would like to take a look at Brandon Jennings. He was a free agent as well and he got 8 million a year from the Pistons after a month of negotiations with the Bucks and other teams and simply waiting for a deal. It didn't happen. I'm not saying Jennings = Tyreke but Jennings has played well (shot erratically) while going to the playoffs in the weak East. He was not far off Tyrekes production and does have talent himself. He only received 8 million a year. I would have went to 10 million for Tyreke that is what I said in the poll way back then. Not that it matters. I'm not PDA.

 

[Bricklayer]

. Who pays 11 million a year for a bench player?

Although truth is of course they would love Reke to start, because that would mean they managed to find a taker for Gordon.

 

[VF21]

Every single thing that has happened this offseason has stunk of Maloofs/Petrie. Everything. If I changed the script and the Maloofs still owned the team this year, and then said here was the list of offseason moves they made, not one person would blink. Maloofs gonna Maloof. Cheap rookie head coach? Check. Too cheap to resign Reke? Check. Sign retread duplicative offensively oriented free agent to a too big contract? Check. Hop up and down like idiots on draft night? Check. Try to patch the glaring SF hole with a little cheapie 2nd round pick move? Check. We're stuck in Maloofland 2.0.

The interesting question/justification is this: if the Maloofs were trying to subtly tank to kill fan interest, is the exact same behavior thus far an indication the new ownership is trying to subtly tank as well for the next draft? We may be having a ****ty offseason by design. There may be no intention of winning 30 games. That in fact might be considered a failure. Why fix the SF hole when its just going to be filled by Wiggins next year anyway?

I generally disagree with your entire opinion of the front office ( ) but the part about Reke is particularly misleading. I think it's been made pretty clear that it wasn't about the money. It was about deciding to put the team in Cousins' hands and build around him. I don't have stats and a lot of numbers to throw out there, but I will honestly state that I thought the team did better when EITHER Cousins or Evans was on the court, not both. If it did come down to a decision of either/or as far as Evans, and I think it did, I have no problem with Evans getting a nice payday from the Pelicans. Now all he has to do is earn it.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

I generally disagree with your entire opinion of the front office ( ) but the part about Reke is particularly misleading. I think it's been made pretty clear that it wasn't about the money. It was about deciding to put the team in Cousins' hands and build around him. I don't have stats and a lot of numbers to throw out there, but I will honestly state that I thought the team did better when EITHER Cousins or Evans was on the court, not both. If it did come down to a decision of either/or as far as Evans, and I think it did, I have no problem with Evans getting a nice payday from the Pelicans. Now all he has to do is earn it.

This may well be a fair assessment, but many of us who opposed the decision are of the opinion that this had less to do with the two of them having incompatible skills/personalities, and more with them being being subject to pee-poor management/coaching.

 

[rainmaker]

In terms of being too cheap to sign Tyreke I would like to point out some things. First, the Pelicans paid him 11 million a year and are not even sure if he's going to start. Who pays 11 million a year for a bench player? Glad it's not us. Second I would like to take a look at Brandon Jennings. He was a free agent as well and he got 8 million a year from the Pistons after a month of negotiations with the Bucks and other teams and simply waiting for a deal. It didn't happen. I'm not saying Jennings = Tyreke but Jennings has played well (shot erratically) while going to the playoffs in the weak East. He was not far off Tyrekes production and does have talent himself. He only received 8 million a year. I would have went to 10 million for Tyreke that is what I said in the poll way back then. Not that it matters. I'm not PDA.

I think people who think NO is planning on paying Reke 11M per year to come off the bench aren't familiar who NO. They've been shopping Gordon both at the trade deadline and this summer. They were shopping him right around the time Reke signed with them. They still have holes to fill both at SF and in the frontcourt. Paying Collison/Gordon/Reke a combined 37M per severely handicaps their ability to solve their issues. Going off everything which has come out of NO regarding Gordon since last winter as well as looking at the new CBA and how a three man backcourt rotation at 37M per fits under it, someone is going to get moved, and since NO was very aggressive going after both Holiday and Reke, I'd say in their eyes that's their future backcourt.

Gordon may not be moved until Feb or July of next summer, but the idea the plan is for Reke to be a bench player at 11M per year for the next four years just doesn't make any sense given salary devoted to their backcourt under the new CBA. Much more likely Reke agreed to be a good soldier and come off the bench until they find a taker for Gordon which there's little evidence he's in NO's plans going forward. And a Holiday/Reke/Davis trio going forward surrounded by fitting role players is more exciting and has more potential than anything we're doing, which is heading straight to the lottery currently.

 

[Sac.Kings]

Although truth is of course they would love Reke to start, because that would mean they managed to find a taker for Gordon.

There are exceptions to everything. In most of the NBA, the general rule is you don't pay bench players 11+ million per year. Ginobili was also switched in and out of the starting line-up for most of his career and is (now mostly was) an incredibly important part of the trio in San Antonio. Clearly part of the big 3, so you have to pay him like it (and why wouldn't you? You won championships with him). In my mind, Ginobili earned his $14 million per year far more than Tyreke earned his $11 million. Proven winner, a clear difference maker on a contending team in his prime, and part of the decade strong trio in San Antonio.

 

[Bricklayer]

There are exceptions to everything. In most of the NBA, the general rule is you don't pay bench players 11+ million per year. Ginobili was also switched in and out of the starting line-up for most of his career and is (now mostly was) an incredibly important part of the trio in San Antonio. Clearly part of the big 3, so you have to pay him like it (and why wouldn't you? You won championships with him). In my mind, Ginobili earned his $14 million per year far more than Tyreke earned his $11 million. Proven winner, a clear difference maker on a contending team in his prime, and part of the decade strong trio in San Antonio.

Its a talent league. Doesn't matter whether the talent starts or comes off the bench. And off the bench for Reke is being used as a silly disparagement anyway. Anybody who thinks that Reke is going to play 24min a night is seriously ****ing delusional.

What you very rarely find is an elite talent egoless enough to accept that. In fact maybe the biggest thing that could hold Reke back in the end is that he has too small an ego. He'll make the sacrifice consistently.

 

[pshn80]

I generally disagree with your entire opinion of the front office ( ) but the part about Reke is particularly misleading. I think it's been made pretty clear that it wasn't about the money. It was about deciding to put the team in Cousins' hands and build around him. I don't have stats and a lot of numbers to throw out there, but I will honestly state that I thought the team did better when EITHER Cousins or Evans was on the court, not both. If it did come down to a decision of either/or as far as Evans, and I think it did, I have no problem with Evans getting a nice payday from the Pelicans. Now all he has to do is earn it.

I, too, have to disagree strongly with the Brick's characterization of what has gone on so far with our new owners and team.

Brick and others are obviously displeased with things so far. The Evans move was tough for Kongs fans, I suspect all of us. In my view it was a tough but leginate decision. I have no problem with their doing so and it is done.

The Kings have drafted two, both good choices. They have acquired three others, all quality players in my book. They have taken shots at acquiring several other players and,
I expect them to try some more before the season with, we all hope, some success.

So far their actions in my book are the farthest thing from "maloofdom" thatvI can imagine. It is sad for me to even hear of that opinion.

Vanadive, D'A, Malone - so far so good. Keep up the good work. There are lots of things to be achieved yet - now, this coming seaso n and in the future. Lets keep working away at those things that will get us more wins and a lot of fun on the way.

 

[Sac.Kings]

I think people who think NO is planning on paying Reke 11M per year to come off the bench aren't familiar who NO. They've been shopping Gordon both at the trade deadline and this summer. They were shopping him right around the time Reke signed with them. They still have holes to fill both at SF and in the frontcourt. Paying Collison/Gordon/Reke a combined 37M per severely handicaps their ability to solve their issues. Going off everything which has come out of NO regarding Gordon since last winter as well as looking at the new CBA and how a three man backcourt rotation at 37M per fits under it, someone is going to get moved, and since NO was very aggressive going after both Holiday and Reke, I'd say in their eyes that's their future backcourt.

Gordon may not be moved until Feb or July of next summer, but the idea the plan is for Reke to be a bench player at 11M per year for the next four years just doesn't make any sense given salary devoted to their backcourt under the new CBA. Much more likely Reke agreed to be a good soldier and come off the bench until they find a taker for Gordon which there's little evidence he's in NO's plans going forward. And a Holiday/Reke/Davis trio going forward surrounded by fitting role players is more exciting and has more potential than anything we're doing, which is heading straight to the lottery currently.

While I don't disagree with you, as it currently stands Tyreke is most likely coming off the bench (for how long we don't really know). I was aware of the Gordon thing, but at the same time they were the ones who refused to let him go and decided to pay him big money for really no apparent reason (he's not even close to being worth his contract). I have a hard time seeing any team trading for Gordon, it is just risky and not exactly the most wise business decision. Until they clean up their backcourt a little bit, Tyreke will be the designated 6th man and will have to cover PG to SF positions defensively. I do agree with you though, the Pelicans have more potential on their roster than we do. It is really too bad how this summer has played out so far. As you already said... off to the lottery we go! At this point the NBA probably reserves seats for the Kings even before the season starts

 

[Sac.Kings]

Its a talent league. Doesn't matter whether the talent starts or comes off the bench. And off the bench for Reke is being used as a silly disparagement anyway. Anybody who thinks that Reke is going to play 24min a night is seriously ****ing delusional.

What you very rarely find is an elite talent egoless enough to accept that. In fact maybe the biggest thing that could hold Reke back in the end is that he has too small an ego. He'll make the sacrifice consistently.

I don't think he will be playing just 24 minutes a night, but his role had drastically changed once he signed the contract with the Pelicans. Yes, he may have elite talent, but talent needs work! I always liked Tyreke, but he isn't on the roster anymore (for whatever reason someone may think.. cheap ownership, giving the keys to Cousins) and I really am not going to think about what ifs anymore. The ownership picked Cousins over Tyreke, saw a sample size of 3 years of the two together (producing crap results), had an estimated value for Tyreke going into the offseason and decided not to match. At least they didn't let Tyreke go for zilch. It was my opinion of Tyreke that he is a nice guy, was hoping to stay with Sacramento, but things didn't work out for him. At the end of the day, he got a great contract offer. He has been here for 4 years, and had some incredible moments for which I will always appreciate, but those moments didn't lead to wins. I think Vivek and Co. want to win and wanted Cousins to be the centerpiece, so they decided to play to his strengths. A guard who lives in the paint is not a guard who will mesh with Cousins, no matter how talented. Now there is certainly some major major work that still needs to be done, but I am willing to wait for the end result. I think we all know that more moves are needed. I want to focus on the entire puzzle, not just a piece or two.

 

[Bricklayer]

A guard who lives in the paint is not a guard who will mesh with Cousins, no matter how talented.

Indeed, because its well known

that the only way to really win with a great big man

is to pair him up with a distance shooting wuss

who breaks out into tears everytime he is forced to venture into the paint with all the big mean men.

 

[John Galt]

Still every thread winds up about Tyreke Evans. Somebody makes sure to turn every discussion in this direction. What the hell is going on here?

And frankly I agree that the FO is "tanking" for the draft. It is child simple - we have a rich draft, a fan base that will give a few years grace as far as WL record (I believe), and a top 12 protected pick. Wiggins or not, calls for tanking.

But Brick are you saying that Malone = Musselman? Don't you think Malone has more street cred than Musselman? Musselman did not have CP3 begging to have him come coach the team nor enjoy a pretty solid rep as one of the premier up and comers. Sometimes it does seem like you're putting on dark colored glasses on purpose. Why not be glad you finally have a FO that has the foresight to tank since you've been complaining about that since Webber blew his knee out.

 

[Sac.Kings]

Indeed, because its well known

that the only way to really win with a great big man

is to pair him up with a distance shooting wuss

who breaks out into tears everytime he is forced to venture into the paint with all the big mean men.

Tyreke Evans:

Season G GS MPG FG% 3p% FT% OFF DEF RPG APG SPG BPG TO PF PPG
12-13 65 61 31.0 0.478 0.338 0.775 0.9 3.6 4.4 3.5 1.4 0.4 2.0 2.0 15.2
Career 257 247 34.9 0.449 0.276 0.765 0.9 3.9 4.8 4.8 1.4 0.4 2.7 2.4 17.5

Dwyane Wade:

Season G GS MPG FG% 3p% FT% OFF DEF RPG APG SPG BPG TO PF PPG
12-13 69 69 34.7 0.521 0.258 0.725 1.2 3.7 5.0 5.1 1.9 0.8 2.8 2.0 21.2
Career 665 657 36.9 0.489 0.289 0.767 1.3 3.7 5.1 6.1 1.8 1.0 3.5 2.5 24.7

Tony Parker:

Season G GS MPG FG% 3p% FT% OFF DEF RPG APG SPG BPG TO PF PPG
12-13 66 66 32.9 0.522 0.353 0.845 0.3 2.7 3.0 7.6 0.8 0.1 2.6 1.4 20.3
Career 872 859 32.9 0.494 0.313 0.748 0.4 2.6 3.0 6.0 1.0 0.1 2.5 1.8 17.1

Clyde Drexler:

SEASON GP GS MIN FGM-A FG% 3PM-A 3P% FTM-A FT% OR DR REB AST BLK STL PF TO PTS
Career 1086 950 34.6 7.7-16.3 .472 0.8-2.4 .318 4.3-5.5 .788 2.4 3.7 6.1 5.6 0.7 2.0 3.0 2.7 20.4

Clearly there is a gap between Tyreke and all the other guards you listed here. Dwyane Wade is exceptionally gifted, a true once in a decade type of player that can dominate any game in any which way you want it to be dominated. Tony Parker is an exceptional PG that grew to be a Finals MVP and has taken over the Spurs the last couple of years and almost led them to a championship this year. Tyreke has worse statistics in FG % (by a significant margin), 3 point % (D-Wade comes close), and PPG career wise than all of the other athletes you pointed out (except for Tony Parker whose PPG is slightly below Tyreke's). Tyreke's assist ratio is lower than all of the other guards on the list and has a lower rebounding rate than all of the other guards except again for Tony Parker, who is a PG (I would like to point out Parker shot a 52% from the field this past season, which is amazing for a guard). These guards are special. At the same time, each and every single one listed above played with legendary big men. When you have a legendary big man, things go much easier. Dwyane Wade has continued winning championships because he plays with another legendary player, one who can play any position and dominate it. D-Wade is one of the all time greats himself. It really is not even close to the talent levels between Tyreke and the rest of these players as it stands now. It's been 4 years since Tyreke was drafted. 4 years time for him to harness his elite talent and improve. He didn't improve enough.

 

[Bricklayer]

But Brick are you saying that Malone = Musselman?

I am sincerely hoping not. Malone and Cousins are my lone two hopes for this season at this point. but note: Eric Musselman was also the son of a legendary coach (Bill Musselman), known for his defensive reputation...and power points. He was the hot young assistant, not before he joined us, but before he took over the Warriors. Now I like Malone and what he has been saying (aside from the Cousins as defensive anchor nonsense), but there are absolutely no guarantees with rookie coaches, no matter their pedigree.

 

[Bricklayer]

Tyreke Evans:

Season G GS MPG FG% 3p% FT% OFF DEF RPG APG SPG BPG TO PF PPG
12-13 65 61 31.0 0.478 0.338 0.775 0.9 3.6 4.4 3.5 1.4 0.4 2.0 2.0 15.2
Career 257 247 34.9 0.449 0.276 0.765 0.9 3.9 4.8 4.8 1.4 0.4 2.7 2.4 17.5

Dwyane Wade:

Season G GS MPG FG% 3p% FT% OFF DEF RPG APG SPG BPG TO PF PPG
12-13 69 69 34.7 0.521 0.258 0.725 1.2 3.7 5.0 5.1 1.9 0.8 2.8 2.0 21.2
Career 665 657 36.9 0.489 0.289 0.767 1.3 3.7 5.1 6.1 1.8 1.0 3.5 2.5 24.7

Tony Parker:

Season G GS MPG FG% 3p% FT% OFF DEF RPG APG SPG BPG TO PF PPG
12-13 66 66 32.9 0.522 0.353 0.845 0.3 2.7 3.0 7.6 0.8 0.1 2.6 1.4 20.3
Career 872 859 32.9 0.494 0.313 0.748 0.4 2.6 3.0 6.0 1.0 0.1 2.5 1.8 17.1

Clyde Drexler:

SEASON GP GS MIN FGM-A FG% 3PM-A 3P% FTM-A FT% OR DR REB AST BLK STL PF TO PTS
Career 1086 950 34.6 7.7-16.3 .472 0.8-2.4 .318 4.3-5.5 .788 2.4 3.7 6.1 5.6 0.7 2.0 3.0 2.7 20.4

Clearly there is a gap between Tyreke and all the other guards you listed here. Dwyane Wade is exceptionally gifted, a true once in a decade type of player that can dominate any game in any which way you want it to be dominated. Tony Parker is an exceptional PG that grew to be a Finals MVP and has taken over the Spurs the last couple of years and almost led them to a championship this year. Tyreke has worse statistics in FG % (by a significant margin), 3 point % (D-Wade comes close), and PPG career wise than all of the other athletes you pointed out (except for Tony Parker whose PPG is slightly below Tyreke's). Tyreke's assist ratio is lower than all of the other guards on the list and has a lower rebounding rate than all of the other guards except again for Tony Parker, who is a PG (I would like to point out Parker shot a 52% from the field this past season, which is amazing for a guard). These guards are special. At the same time, each and every single one listed above played with legendary big men. When you have a legendary big man, things go much easier. Dwyane Wade has continued winning championships because he plays with another legendary player, one who can play any position and dominate it. D-Wade is one of the all time greats himself. It really is not even close to the talent levels between Tyreke and the rest of these players as it stands now. It's been 4 years since Tyreke was drafted. 4 years time for him to harness his elite talent and improve. He didn't improve enough.

Or alternately we could compare spades to spades:

Thru age 23:
Drex: 27.6min 14.3pts (.478 .208 .757) 4.8reb 5.0ast 2.0stl 0.6blk 2.6TO
Reke: 34.9min 17.5pts (.449 .276 .765) 4.8reb 4.8ast 1.4stl 0.4blk 2.7TO
Parkr: 33.2min 15.0pts (.479 .315 .699) 3.1reb 5.4ast 1.0stl 0.1blk 2.5TO
Wade: 37.0min 20.6pts (.473 .296 .758) 4.7reb 5.8ast 1.5stl 0.8blk 3.7TO

*and the main point of divergence, FG%, is almost entirely due to Reke's platar faciitis tainted sophomore season. He has shot .458, .409, .453, .475, which probably works out to about .460 minus the injury year.

Best part is coaches up through those ages. Drexler = HOF Jack Ramsay. Parker = HOF Gregg Popovich. Wade = HOF Pat Riley + Stan Van Gundy. Reke = ahem.

But of course the argument in pictures doesn't depend on Reke being as good as any of those guys. It depends on blowing up the assertion that great bigs need some great shooting guard as their wingman.

 

[Sac.Kings]

Or alternately we could compare spades to spades:

Thru age 23:
Drex: 27.6min 14.3pts (.478 .208 .757) 4.8reb 5.0ast 2.0stl 0.6blk 2.6TO
Reke: 34.9min 17.5pts (.449 .276 .765) 4.8reb 4.8ast 1.4stl 0.4blk 2.7TO
Parkr: 33.2min 15.0pts (.479 .315 .699) 3.1reb 5.4ast 1.0stl 0.1blk 2.5TO
Wade: 37.0min 20.6pts (.473 .296 .758) 4.7reb 5.8ast 1.5stl 0.8blk 3.7TO

*and the main point of divergence, FG%, is almost entirely due to Reke's platar faciitis tainted sophomore season. He has shot .458, .409, .453, .475, which probably works out to about .460 minus the injury year.

But of course the argument in pictures doesn't depend on Reke being as good as any of those guys. It depends on blowing up the assertion that great bigs need some great shooting guard as their wingman.

I don't disagree with you. The organization just thought different and believed in McLemore more than Tyreke (for better or worse is yet to be determined). Clyde's stats that you listed are significantly off his career averages because his first season he played only 17 minutes a game. The next two seasons he played more and averaged over 17 PPG his second season and then over 18 PPG his third.

* Tyreke's statistics would be far different if you excluded his rookie season in which he had complete free reign and was the primary player (which probably won't happen again). Out of the other 3 years his averages would have been:

PPG: 16.5
Rebounds: 4.6
Assists P/g: 4.5
FG %: .446
3 FG %: .28

You and I could twist stats all day, but I will just agree to disagree at this point.

 

[bajaden]

I don't think this discussion has anything to do with how New Orleans is going to use Tyreke. They signed him for 11 mil a year, and they can have him clean bathrooms if they want. Pretty expensive cleaning job, but its their money. Its really about how much the Kings new management valued Tryeke. Something we can all agree or disagree about. I agree with VF21 that they want to build the team around Cousins, and they didn't want any other pretenders to the throne around to challenge that idea. If you know that one team is offering 11 mil a year, and you offer 9 mil a year, I think you can safely say that your not going to get that player. But you given the pretense of trying.

I think the fact that they offered Iguodala somewhere in the neighborhood of 11 or 12 mil speaks volumes as to what their mindset is. They wanted a pass first PG, and so they pursued Calderon. A good lockerroom guy, and high character guy. When they couldn't get him, they decided to go for second best at the moment in Vasquez, a player with the same qualities. They went after Kirilenko, but he signed for less money to play on a contender. They made the statement that this season wasn't about winning, but about changing the culture. A statement that's been repeated. Words mean something, and I take them at their word.

I don't think they ever planned, or thought they could accomplish everything they wanted this offseason. I heard no lofty expectations from anyone in the organization. Were all free to disagree with those decisions, but like it or not, were stuck with them, and all we can do is hope that their overall plan for the team pays dividends down the road. A road that's been a long one for us, but not for them. And that's where the disparity come in. Most of us are already impatient, and maybe some patience could have been bought with a couple favorable moves. I, like you, hope they know what their doing.

 

[Dime Dropper]

Oh man, this thread has escalated. I'm going to enjoy reading the updates tomorrow when I awake. Pretty sure I know how it'll go.


One thing I will say about the actual topic, I absolutely dislike the Heat, but I wish all the best for Oden. I really hope he turns this around. I think it's pretty much impossible because I think his body will break down again, but I hope it happens for him. He was on track to being a legit dominant modern big, it's not justice at all that he should go down as one of the biggest busts ever. Just not right. If I was ever rooting for a non-King comeback, it's for him.

 

[ParniValjak]

Every single thing that has happened this offseason has stunk of Maloofs/Petrie. Everything. If I changed the script and the Maloofs still owned the team this year, and then said here was the list of offseason moves they made, not one person would blink. Maloofs gonna Maloof. Cheap rookie head coach? Check. Too cheap to resign Reke? Check. Sign retread duplicative offensively oriented free agent to a too big contract? Check. Hop up and down like idiots on draft night? Check. Try to patch the glaring SF hole with a little cheapie 2nd round pick move? Check. We're stuck in Maloofland 2.0.

The interesting question/justification is this: if the Maloofs were trying to subtly tank to kill fan interest, is the exact same behavior thus far an indication the new ownership is trying to subtly tank as well for the next draft? We may be having a ****ty offseason by design. There may be no intention of winning 30 games. That in fact might be considered a failure. Why fix the SF hole when its just going to be filled by Wiggins next year anyway?

Precisely!

People are blinded by the hype that we kept our team when reality is, all the moves we made so far this off-season are textbook Maloofs/Petrie!

The only explaination is that we are taking for a chance at a superstar in the draft next year. I am OK with that BUT, there is only so many times you can go to the well and unless we strike it big in the draft, we are in real danger of becominf Clippers pre Griddin and CP3!

 

[Kingster]

Every single thing that has happened this offseason has stunk of Maloofs/Petrie. Everything. If I changed the script and the Maloofs still owned the team this year, and then said here was the list of offseason moves they made, not one person would blink. Maloofs gonna Maloof. Cheap rookie head coach? Check. Too cheap to resign Reke? Check. Sign retread duplicative offensively oriented free agent to a too big contract? Check. Hop up and down like idiots on draft night? Check. Try to patch the glaring SF hole with a little cheapie 2nd round pick move? Check. We're stuck in Maloofland 2.0.

The interesting question/justification is this: if the Maloofs were trying to subtly tank to kill fan interest, is the exact same behavior thus far an indication the new ownership is trying to subtly tank as well for the next draft? We may be having a ****ty offseason by design. There may be no intention of winning 30 games. That in fact might be considered a failure. Why fix the SF hole when its just going to be filled by Wiggins next year anyway?

They have said several times that we shouldn't count on the playoffs this coming year. They made it abundantly clear they would not come in with a short term fix. I do think that part of their plan is this coming draft. They would be idiots not to factor the upcoming draft into their plans, and they are not idiots. The fact that because of the Hickson trade the Kings cannot trade that 2014 #1 pick might have also factored into their thought process. And it's not just Wiggins, it's several other draft prospects as well. This appears to be a very strong deep draft in the top tier. If it were just Wiggins, then strategizing for the longer term for the sake of the longer term wouldn't make any sense, as at best they'd have a 25% chance of getting him (and that's with the worst record in the league). But when you have maybe three to five very fine players at the top of the draft, those odds look a lot better.

PS One indication during the season of how important they view the record for the upcoming season is the extent to which they play McLemore and maybe McCollum.