Greg Monro with the 5th pick

Peter_Gibbons said:
Greg is no good as a center. Since we don't need another power forward before adding to our center position, please don't pick Greg.
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I think his only viable position based on his athleticism is center. He moves about as nimbly as Tim Duncan (sadly) does right now. And guess who got demolished by Amare Stoudemire a few weeks ago? The thought of Monroe at PF is pretty stomach-turning.

Even at center though -- guys like Dwight, Al Horford, likely Oden (even after his knee operations) and Brook Lopez will be looking to beat him down the court or just run around him. I hope Petrie's seen enough of that happening to the Kings over the past 10 years or so and will stay away from this pick.
 
I was impressed w/ Monroe's accuracy and smooth stroke but that's were it ended. He dragged his feet, showed poor explosiveness, and didn't demonstrate the kind of body language I'm looking for.

Say what you will about Cousins but I'm convinced he's BOTH 50 pounds heavier AND has better quickness/footwork in the paint then Monroe. If the Kings pick Monroe I hope they have plans for Spencer Hawes, such as trading him for a quality shooting guard, b/c Monroe duplicates Hawes "strengths."

I'm content with either Cousins or Johnson. But if the Kings can trade down for a couple of early teen picks, I'd hope they target Epke Udoh, Hassan Whiteside, and/or Paul George.
 
Dr. Spaceman said:
I think his only viable position based on his athleticism is center. He moves about as nimbly as Tim Duncan (sadly) does right now. And guess who got demolished by Amare Stoudemire a few weeks ago? The thought of Monroe at PF is pretty stomach-turning.

Even at center though -- guys like Dwight, Al Horford, likely Oden (even after his knee operations) and Brook Lopez will be looking to beat him down the court or just run around him. I hope Petrie's seen enough of that happening to the Kings over the past 10 years or so and will stay away from this pick.
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Duncan outplayed Amare in that series. Nash, J-Rich and the rest of the team demolished their Spurs couterparts.

The other concern is laughable. Monroe is not quick footed, but he's not really slow. He's actually faster than most centers. If there's one athletic test you can count as pretty accurate its a sprint. And he tested out faster than notorious speed merchants Horford, Lopez, Cousins, Hawes, and Noah. Most of them by a pretty wide margin.
 
hammystyle said:
Why wouldn't he be good as a center? Played center in college and he's big enough.
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Way too soft defensively. He guarantees you would be marshmellows. Its yet to be seen if he would join Spencer running screaming in his ruffled panties the first time he saw Oden. We could have a stampede on our hands.

I can almost buy him as a legit PF. Sometimes. When I'm not thinking straight. Wuss, but at least a big wuss at that position.
 
kingofthejungle said:
I was impressed w/ Monroe's accuracy and smooth stroke but that's were it ended. He dragged his feet, showed poor explosiveness, and didn't demonstrate the kind of body language I'm looking for.

Say what you will about Cousins but I'm convinced he's BOTH 50 pounds heavier AND has better quickness/footwork in the paint then Monroe. If the Kings pick Monroe I hope they have plans for Spencer Hawes, such as trading him for a quality shooting guard, b/c Monroe duplicates Hawes "strengths."

I'm content with either Cousins or Johnson. But if the Kings can trade down for a couple of early teen picks, I'd hope they target Epke Udoh, Hassan Whiteside, and/or Paul George.
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Not that I don't prefer Cousins, but I'd be extremely interested to compare him doing those same drills. I think Monroe would come off a LOT faster and in better shape.
 
Bricklayer said:
Way too soft defensively. He guarantees you would be marshmellows. Its yet to be seen if he would join Spencer running screaming in his ruffled panties the first time he saw Oden. We could have a stampede on our hands.

I can almost buy him as a legit PF. Sometimes. When I'm not thinking straight. Wuss, but at least a big wuss at that position.
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Maybe I'm wrong, but I never saw him play soft once this year. So I don't get why this hangs on him.
 
hammystyle said:
Why wouldn't he be good as a center? Played center in college and he's big enough.
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Actually, the only way I would draft Monroe is to play center. I doubt he could guard some of the quicker PF's in the league. The one area I was concerned about was his quickness. In all fairness, its hard for him to show what he can do in an individual workout. At the same time, he's the one that chose to do the individual workout.

As for the smoothness of his shot. I already knew that from watching him play in college. I'm trying very hard to sell myself on him and this video didn't help..
 
hammystyle said:
Maybe I'm wrong, but I never saw him play soft once this year. So I don't get why this hangs on him.
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I don't watch the college game. So if those of you labeling players could point to specific games ( better would specific points in games) where the player was "soft" it would be cool. Then we could search for videos or at least check the stats of those games.

KB
 
Bricklayer said:
Way too soft defensively. He guarantees you would be marshmellows. Its yet to be seen if he would join Spencer running screaming in his ruffled panties the first time he saw Oden. We could have a stampede on our hands.

I can almost buy him as a legit PF. Sometimes. When I'm not thinking straight. Wuss, but at least a big slow wuss at that position.
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Fixed.
 
hammystyle said:
Duncan outplayed Amare in that series. Nash, J-Rich and the rest of the team demolished their Spurs couterparts.

The other concern is laughable. Monroe is not quick footed, but he's not really slow. He's actually faster than most centers. If there's one athletic test you can count as pretty accurate its a sprint. And he tested out faster than notorious speed merchants Horford, Lopez, Cousins, Hawes, and Noah. Most of them by a pretty wide margin.
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I will admit to not having seen every game of the series. However, I did see the last two games and Stoudemire and Nash ran the pick and roll down the Spurs throat. I've never see such frustration on Duncan's face before. They knew the Suns were going to run the pick and roll and they couldn't stop it.

As for the sprint drills. I put more emphasis on the agility drills because it shows whether a player has quick feet or not. Something thats important in post play both offensively and defensively. So I listed both..

Horford: Sprint - 3.37, Agility - 12.15

Monroe: Sprint - 3.35, Agility - 12.10

Aldrich: Sprint - 3.35, Agility - 11.48

Cousins: Sprint - 3.55, Agility - 11.40

Lopez: Sprint - 3.57, Agility - 12.57

Kaman: Sprint - 3.37, Agility - 11.33

Parakhouski: Sprint - 3.33, Agility - 12.07

Hawes: Sprint - 3.51, Agility - 11.88

Udoh: Sprint - 3.29, Agility - 11.15

How all that translates to the NBA game is anyone's guess. But just going on what I've seen during the season, Monroe doesn't have quick feet. I don't think that precludes him from being sucessful, but it doesn't make him particularly special either.
 
hammystyle said:
Duncan outplayed Amare in that series. Nash, J-Rich and the rest of the team demolished their Spurs couterparts.

The other concern is laughable. Monroe is not quick footed, but he's not really slow. He's actually faster than most centers. If there's one athletic test you can count as pretty accurate its a sprint. And he tested out faster than notorious speed merchants Horford, Lopez, Cousins, Hawes, and Noah. Most of them by a pretty wide margin.
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Duncan outplayed Amare?? Just because you say so doesn't make it true. Duncan might've gotten his 15 points on the other end, and he played some solid post defense (like Amare has such an advanced post game), but as Baja pointed out, the Suns killed the Spurs with the pick and roll, and Duncan's age was really thrown into the spotlight. A bad light.

The key to that? Lateral quickness. Or a lack thereof. Something that TD and Monroe have in common these days. How can you laugh off that concern?

The book on this guy everywhere we go says he will be an average defender at best. You saw it in the video for yourself: no aggressiveness or explosiveness in his motions, even when he was driving to the basket. And that end is his forte, is it not? He will not answer the needs that plagued our team for the entire season(s). So why invite more of the same? We've already got our skilled, jump-shooting, unaggressive, unathletic, thinks-our-offense-will-be-run-through-him-but-it-won't, no-defense-playing center. No mas.
 
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bajaden said:
I will admit to not having seen every game of the series. However, I did see the last two games and Stoudemire and Nash ran the pick and roll down the Spurs throat. I've never see such frustration on Duncan's face before. They knew the Suns were going to run the pick and roll and they couldn't stop it.

As for the sprint drills. I put more emphasis on the agility drills because it shows whether a player has quick feet or not. Something thats important in post play both offensively and defensively. So I listed both..

Horford: Sprint - 3.37, Agility - 12.15

Monroe: Sprint - 3.35, Agility - 12.10

Aldrich: Sprint - 3.35, Agility - 11.48

Cousins: Sprint - 3.55, Agility - 11.40

Lopez: Sprint - 3.57, Agility - 12.57

Kaman: Sprint - 3.37, Agility - 11.33

Parakhouski: Sprint - 3.33, Agility - 12.07

Hawes: Sprint - 3.51, Agility - 11.88

Udoh: Sprint - 3.29, Agility - 11.15

How all that translates to the NBA game is anyone's guess. But just going on what I've seen during the season, Monroe doesn't have quick feet. I don't think that precludes him from being sucessful, but it doesn't make him particularly special either.
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Check out the numbers on Udoh. What do you think of his standing reach? Has anyone figured out why it's so low b/c he has a great wingspan? Here's Udoh compared w/ Orton, for example:

Udoh 6' 8.75" 6' 9.75" 237 7' 4.5" 8' 10.5" 8.0 9.50 8.75 31.0 11' 5.5" 33.5 11' 8" 10 11.15 3.29
Orton 6' 8.75" 6' 9.5" 269 7' 4.25" 9' 2.5" 13.8 8.50 9.75 24.0 11' 2.5" 30.5 11' 9" 13 12.32 3.39

The numbers suggest that Udoh has good size and speed for a power forward.

Anyway, I'm having a hard time figuring out why there's a thread re: Monroe at the 5 to begin with. Hindsight is 20-20, and I could very well be wrong, but my feeling is that Cousins and Johnson are better choices. Last time I checked, we're picking at 5, so there's little reason to look much further (unless we're talking 33, at which I'd gladly take Monroe...).
 
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kingofthejungle said:
Check out the numbers on Udoh. What do you think of his standing reach? Has anyone figured out why it's so low b/c he has a great wingspan? Here's Udoh compared w/ Orton, for example:

Udoh 6' 8.75" 6' 9.75" 237 7' 4.5" 8' 10.5" 8.0 9.50 8.75 31.0 11' 5.5" 33.5 11' 8" 10 11.15 3.29
Orton 6' 8.75" 6' 9.5" 269 7' 4.25" 9' 2.5" 13.8 8.50 9.75 24.0 11' 2.5" 30.5 11' 9" 13 12.32 3.39

The numbers suggest that Udoh has good size and speed for a power forward.

Anyway, I'm having a hard time figuring out why there's a thread re: Monroe at the 5 to begin with. Hindsight is 20-20, and I could very well be wrong, but my feeling is that Cousins and Johnson are better choices. Last time I checked, we're picking at 5, so there's little reason to look much further (unless we're talking 33, at which I'd gladly take Monroe...).
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Wide shoulders.
 
Dr. Spaceman said:
Duncan outplayed Amare?? Just because you say so doesn't make it true. Duncan might've gotten his 15 points on the other end, and he played some solid post defense (like Amare has such an advanced post game), but as Baja pointed out, the Suns killed the Spurs with the pick and roll, and Duncan's age was really thrown into the spotlight. A bad light.

The key to that? Lateral quickness. Or a lack thereof. Something that TD and Monroe have in common these days. How can you laugh off that concern?

The book on this guy everywhere we go says he will be an average defender at best. You saw it in the video for yourself: no aggressiveness or explosiveness in his motions, even when he was driving to the basket. And that end is his forte, is it not? He will not answer the needs that plagued our team for the entire season(s). So why invite more of the same? We've already got our skilled, jump-shooting, unaggressive, unathletic, thinks-our-offense-will-be-run-through-him-but-it-won't, no-defense-playing center. No mas.
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Amare scored 1 more point in the series. Duncan had more blocks, rebounds, assists and steals. He did have major trouble with the pick and roll. But what did Amare do on defense?

As for the rest, I'm not worried about the video, because I've seen Monroe play. It was laughable that you think Brook Lopez and Greg Oden are just going to be sprinting right past him for open layups when he's faster than those guys. If you think Monroe and Hawes are the same guy, great, keep your nose in the scouting reports and call it a day. I'll stick to what I saw with my own eyes.
 
hammystyle said:
Amare scored 1 more point in the series. Duncan had more blocks, rebounds, assists and steals. He did have major trouble with the pick and roll. But what did Amare do on defense?

As for the rest, I'm not worried about the video, because I've seen Monroe play. It was laughable that you think Brook Lopez and Greg Oden are just going to be sprinting right past him for open layups when he's faster than those guys. If you think Monroe and Hawes are the same guy, great, keep your nose in the scouting reports and call it a day. I'll stick to what I saw with my own eyes.
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The point of the Duncan-Amare scenario was to show how important it is for your starting big man to be able to guard quicker opponents, especially with a style that is as prevalent as the pick and roll is. Duncan is losing the ability to do so and thus, his value as a player declines. Monroe seems to still be looking to attain said ability, because he surely doesn't have it right now.

I'm as big an Amare hater as they come, and I hope the Kings aren't even entertaining the mere thought of throwing the huge contract that he's looking for, so the idea that Amare doesn't play defense isn't a revelation to me. But I was never trying to vouch for his defense in the first place -- the point was about Duncan.

I think it's laughable that you're sticking so closely to those sprint numbers that were attained in a closed, isolated environment. I've seen Monroe try to run the floor in actual games before, and I've done the same for Lopez and Oden. There's no doubt in my mind that they run the floor better than he does. Of course, the jury's out on Oden until we get through the summer to see how his recovery's come along, but I'd venture to say that he'll remain more athletic than Monroe, and we're still talking about the running part.

Look, I respect that you like the player enough to support him like this and I'm not going after you specifically, but you haven't done a thing to convince me that he'll be some type of answer to our woes on post defense, which is the most crucial shortcoming of our team's game right now. Bottom line is this: A one way player as our first pick in the draft is not going to help this team.

That's how I see Monroe at this moment: a one way player. But if you have consistent game footage that negates my real concerns, then I'm absolutely up for seeing it and hearing about it.
 
hammystyle said:
Amare scored 1 more point in the series. Duncan had more blocks, rebounds, assists and steals. He did have major trouble with the pick and roll. But what did Amare do on defense?

As for the rest, I'm not worried about the video, because I've seen Monroe play. It was laughable that you think Brook Lopez and Greg Oden are just going to be sprinting right past him for open layups when he's faster than those guys. If you think Monroe and Hawes are the same guy, great, keep your nose in the scouting reports and call it a day. I'll stick to what I saw with my own eyes.
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The last thing I worry about is a teams center killing us on fast breaks. In general, the center is usually the last player down the floor. Lateral quickness is another issue alltogether. And Monroe has a lack of it. Now if your big enough, you can still be just fine without it. Especially on offense if your very skilled in the post. Defense is another matter.

Like you, I saw Monroe play a lot this last season, and my biggest concern with him was his foot speed. And I'm not talking about end to end speed. One of the things that makes Cousins so effective in the post is his quick feet. That along with outstanding foot work is why he was so successful. Monroe doesn't have that kind of foot speed. Aldrich has very quick feet in the post and once again he also has good foot work.

This is the reason I say Monroe has to play center. I still think he can be a pretty good player because of everything else he brings to the table. I also think that if you can put him on the floor with a good help defender at the SF or PF it would make up for some of his defensive liabilities.

As far as Duncan and Stoudemire go. Look, I'm a big Duncan fan, and I don't particularly like Stoudemire that much. But make no mistake. The Spurs lost that series because they couldn't defend the pick and roll. Duncan admitted as much after the game. I sat there in amazement as the Suns ran one pick and roll after another, and scored almost at will off of it. I remember talking to my son about it and wondering if they could do the same thing to the Lakers. Obviously the answer was no.
 
bajaden said:
The last thing I worry about is a teams center killing us on fast breaks. In general, the center is usually the last player down the floor. Lateral quickness is another issue alltogether. And Monroe has a lack of it. Now if your big enough, you can still be just fine without it. Especially on offense if your very skilled in the post. Defense is another matter.

Like you, I saw Monroe play a lot this last season, and my biggest concern with him was his foot speed. And I'm not talking about end to end speed. One of the things that makes Cousins so effective in the post is his quick feet. That along with outstanding foot work is why he was so successful. Monroe doesn't have that kind of foot speed. Aldrich has very quick feet in the post and once again he also has good foot work.

This is the reason I say Monroe has to play center. I still think he can be a pretty good player because of everything else he brings to the table. I also think that if you can put him on the floor with a good help defender at the SF or PF it would make up for some of his defensive liabilities.

As far as Duncan and Stoudemire go. Look, I'm a big Duncan fan, and I don't particularly like Stoudemire that much. But make no mistake. The Spurs lost that series because they couldn't defend the pick and roll. Duncan admitted as much after the game. I sat there in amazement as the Suns ran one pick and roll after another, and scored almost at will off of it. I remember talking to my son about it and wondering if they could do the same thing to the Lakers. Obviously the answer was no.
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Monroe doesn't have quick feet, but he's also extremely fluid in his movements which helps negate that. My take on Monroe's defense is this. He should be a good defender, but in the context of other good defenders and a good scheme like you said. He's not a lynchpin, just a solid contributor who does his part.

Actually a great prototype for a PF to pair with Monroe would be Udoh. Great offensive inside outside passing pair, that's very good on defense too.

The Jazz at #9 really like Monroe and have Memphis #1 next year from the Ronnie Brewer trade. Top 14-protected in 2011, Top-12 in 2012, Top-10 in 2013 and Top-9 in 2014-15. If after 2015, Jazz receive cash from Grizzlies.

Could be something in the works there.
 
hammystyle said:
Monroe doesn't have quick feet, but he's also extremely fluid in his movements which helps negate that. My take on Monroe's defense is this. He should be a good defender, but in the context of other good defenders and a good scheme like you said. He's not a lynchpin, just a solid contributor who does his part.

Actually a great prototype for a PF to pair with Monroe would be Udoh. Great offensive inside outside passing pair, that's very good on defense too.

The Jazz at #9 really like Monroe and have Memphis #1 next year from the Ronnie Brewer trade. Top 14-protected in 2011, Top-12 in 2012, Top-10 in 2013 and Top-9 in 2014-15. If after 2015, Jazz receive cash from Grizzlies.

Could be something in the works there.
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I've got to admit that I would like to see Monroe and Udoh on the floor together. I think they would compliment each other very well. Udoh did a very good job at Baylor with help defense despite being as far from the basket as he was at times. My bigges worry with Monroe is how well he'll be able to defend the pick and roll. The idea of him being one on one with A Tony Parker just scares the hell out of me. :eek:
 
Honestly, if we were picking 3rd... I think it would have been Monroe.

I was psyched when I heard he was withdrawing from the draft, bummed when I heard he was back in it. As a player he's a GP wetdream.

Dude could be decent, maybe a 16/8 player. But the passivity and lack of athleticism scare me. If Petrie passes on Cuz for Monroe than I'm gonna be grumpier than all those Rubio fans were last TDOS.
 
Still too soon to say for sure, but darned if it doesn't look like Petrie likes Monroe. Last year he proved to be right with Evans. But Evans was considered a man beast as an athlete well before the pick. It was more of a question about how he was used.

With Monroe, we have the same red flags that we did with Hawes and those proved to be accurate. Where is the Petrie that really wanted Noah in 2007? Here it looks like Cousins might be there. A solid center with some fire and attitude and probably as just goofy as Noah and it's looking like he's falling in love with the matching chess piece to Spencer Hawes.
 
I think Monroe is (hopefully) the backup plan.

Not that I'm a fan. Miller, Hawes....I'm sick of super passive/skilled bigs. 7 footers that can pass and hit 3s dont translate into wins. Not sure if Petrie gets that. But hey, versatility and all that.
 
Honestly I think Petrie will pick Monroe only if Cousins is gone at 5. I think he wants a big and doesn't want another wing in Johnson. So its Cousins if he is there or Monroe.
 
Vlade4GM said:
A big that solves none of our frontcourt weaknesses...great :rolleyes:
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yeah, well the true talent that will help Rekes game would be Monroe's passing ability also being a lefty. he will be one of the best passing big men come Oct.

I dunno, maybe he reaches for Whiteside.. I have always pictured Monroe wearing Bibby's jersey. :o

Don't get me wrong I want Cousins as much as the next guy.
 
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