[Grades] Grades v. Thunder 1/4/2016

[Bricklayer]

Is it just me or has Koufos' game gone completely unnoticed?! I thought his contribution was fantastic off the bench!

No I agree -- might have been his best game as a King actually. Defense was outstanding in there, which is closer to his rep. But notably,. most of it was next to Cousins. It was the two big effect.

 

[bajaden]

Is it just me or has Koufos' game gone completely unnoticed?! I thought his contribution was fantastic off the bench!

No your right, Koufos played well for the most part. Koufos weakness is away from the basket on defense. He's a very good post defender, but is lost on the perimeter. He lost his man several times tonight. He had four blocks though.

 

[Im Still Ballin]

WCS is such a game changer

 

[Im Still Ballin]

His advanced stats just scream impact

+9.6 on/off the court

118 Offensive rating
104 Defensive rating

 

[Glenn]

No I agree -- might have been his best game as a King actually. Defense was outstanding in there, which is closer to his rep. But notably,. most of it was next to Cousins. It was the two big effect.

The Kings used two bigs quite a bit which surprised me. It worked for this game. I suspect we'll see a lot of it in the future.

 

[The_Jamal]

That's the thing isn't it? Same with Marco. He's hitting his shots and all of a sudden looks pretty good. But a few games ago people were all like "Karl is evil small ball everyone plays worse under Karl!"

Stop it at once withe that nonsense. Karl has nothing to do with any team success, just it's failures!

 

[The_Jamal]

The Kings used two bigs quite a bit which surprised me. It worked for this game. I suspect we'll see a lot of it in the future.

Forced into it a bit with our key small ball piece (casspi) on the sidelines for this one. But WCS back fixes up our big man rotation nicely

 

[mac]

Forced into it a bit with our key small ball piece (casspi) on the sidelines for this one. But WCS back fixes up our big man rotation nicely

Yea having WCS back is definitely a good thing, and hopefully he gives Karl a reason to have more confidence in him.

 

[ParniValjak]

The Kings used two bigs quite a bit which surprised me. It worked for this game. I suspect we'll see a lot of it in the future.

I certainly hope so!

 

[Siranthony]

That was a lot of fun to watch. Really enjoyed that. I'm glad to see Belinelli hitting his shots. Very nice. I tell you, the last two games this offence has really come together. I hope it continues. If so we may have a shot. It would be nice if we could win a back to back. The guys might be tired though. They fought hard tonight.

 

[Sac.1989]

Well yes, but then again Shawn Marion is on that list too.

yeah and you wouldnt take him on the kings ?

id take PHX marion over Casspi in a heartbeat. That may break some hearts here but Marion was a straight up great player and he more than deserves to be on that list.

 

[mac]

yeah and you wouldnt take him on the kings ?

id take PHX marion over Casspi in a heartbeat. That may break some hearts here but Marion was a straight up great player and he more than deserves to be on that list.

That is hardly the point I was making. I was responding to Brick's post about Cousins' path to the HOF, and I was simply pointing out that while that would seem likely based on the other guys on the list, Shawn Marion was on it too, and he's at best a borderline HOF player.

Not exactly sure what it means to "deserve" being on a list of actual, recorded statistics. There isn't much to be deserved about it, either you do it or you don't. It's not a top 10 players of all time list that is subjective.

 

[Sac.1989]

That is hardly the point I was making. I was responding to Brick's post about Cousins' path to the HOF, and I was simply pointing out that while that would seem likely based on the other guys on the list, Shawn Marion was on it too, and he's at best a borderline HOF player.

Not exactly sure what it means to "deserve" being on a list of actual, recorded statistics. There isn't much to be deserved about it, either you do it or you don't. It's not a top 10 players of all time list that is subjective.

Marion earned his spot on that list through his work, positive shot selection and statistics and therefore he deserves to be there, borderline HOF, player of the system whatever subjective title you want to label him with so be it.

Our own Tyreke Evans hit 20, 5, 5 and the accolades and praise that bought with it were well deserved regardless of where he is now.

 

[King Baller]

Wow what a game! What defense! Actual Power Forwards and Centers playing for the Kings And on the floor at the same time Two Bigs, what a wonderful thing

 

[Im Still Ballin]

Sean Cunningham ‏@SeanCunningham 11h11 hours ago
Willie Cauley-Stein had 3 stitches in middle finger - listed as day to day going forward. Not same finger as before.

James Ham ‏@James_Ham 11h11 hours ago
3 stitches in Willie Cauley-Stein’s right middle finger. Listed as day-to-day.

 

[dude12]

If the Kings are to make a run at the playoffs, WCS will need to be an important piece. I hope George starts him and brings Casspi off the bench for firepower, especially if Bellinelli goes into the starting lineup....seems both units would be more balanced

 

[ESP47]

OK, Brick (and anyone else that would like to take a stab at it):

I'd be interested in hearing a non-conspiracy-theory explanation/conjecture as to why the Kings can play like this on the road and beat a Thunder team playing HARD when they can't even bother to go after loose balls or even attempt to defend at home against the Trailblazers and 76ers.


Because without conspiracy theories, I cannot fathom an explanation that even begins to make sense given this season.
(BTW- my conspiracy theory is simple - the players didn't want to win those games, and they did want to win the last 2. Simple as that)

They wanted to win those games. They just didn't want to put in the work to do it.

Sometimes this team plays like they're already in the playoffs and can take nights off. They act like they can dial it down and still beat the bottom tier teams. They need to realize they aren't that good and anything short of 100% effort every night is going to mean more L's than W's.

 

[kingsboi]

WCS looks like a young Garnett out there

How you figure that?

 

[kingsboi]

No your right, Koufos played well for the most part. Koufos weakness is away from the basket on defense. He's a very good post defender, but is lost on the perimeter. He lost his man several times tonight. He had four blocks though.

What baffles me more than anything is that if Koufos is such a post defender, why do the guards come and help off their man to help him?

 

[New Era]

If Cousins gets tossed from the game tomorrow everyone will magically forget some of the last few games and kick into that other gear that Boogie inspires.

Yes, and those people would have the right to think that way. If you want to be a great in this league you have to bring it every night. You can't have a blow up ever couple of weeks like he has done in the past. I would be the first person to support him if he can maintain his composure for an extended period of time.

 

[funkykingston]

What baffles me more than anything is that if Koufos is such a post defender, why do the guards come and help off their man to help him?

The only thing I can guess on that is either lack of discipline or (more likely) that the scheme is designed that way. Karl tends to prefer a scrambling, disruptive defense so maybe he's looking for turnovers and preventing easy looks down low at the expense of giving up some open threes? Whatever the case may be, in today's NBA I think you let a guy like Koufos play his man straight up in the post and stay at home on shooters or at least be in a good position to close out hard.

 

[John Galt]

OK, Brick (and anyone else that would like to take a stab at it):

I'd be interested in hearing a non-conspiracy-theory explanation/conjecture as to why the Kings can play like this on the road and beat a Thunder team playing HARD when they can't even bother to go after loose balls or even attempt to defend at home against the Trailblazers and 76ers.


Because without conspiracy theories, I cannot fathom an explanation that even begins to make sense given this season.
(BTW- my conspiracy theory is simple - the players didn't want to win those games, and they did want to win the last 2. Simple as that)

I think there was a hint when Rudy kind of shrugged after one loss and said "if we win the next one, then this doesn't matter" (next one happened to be the Warriors).

This group of guys - Cuz, Rondo, Gay... they think they have a better team than they have. They think they can take teams lightly, that they can just step on the gas whenever they want and beat anybody. I have seen it again and again, lackadaisical play and cocky body language that belies their .400 winning percentage.

No conspiracy - on intentional tanking - and I'm even starting to believe that they have NOT quit on coach Karl. They just have an over-inflated opinion of themselves vs the rest of the league - they think they will waltz into the playoffs.

When they realize they will need a focused effort - they can play with anyone except the W's. It's a crime they aren't .500 right now - attributable to this cocky immature attitude imo.

 

[est.1999]

Borderline HOFer actually, although I don't think he should make it.

In any case, his problem was the scoring, sans Nash's help. Not a problem for the rest of the list.

*insert Russell Westbrook "what?" face*

 

[CruzDude]

What baffles me more than anything is that if Koufos is such a post defender, why do the guards come and help off their man to help him?

Double teaming down low has worked very well last couple of games and is a new wrinkle that works most of the time, sort of a "high-low" double with the guard going after the ball.

 

[andjel]

Double teaming down low has worked very well last couple of games and is a new wrinkle that works most of the time, sort of a "high-low" double with the guard going after the ball.

Might be biased since all I remember is a 1 minutes span (at the beginning of 4th I believe) where Collison was "helping" guard center which resulted in his man having 2 wide open 3pt shots (hit one miss another), and Rondo lurking under the hoop with similar results of his man being wide open.
Missed any success with that strategy.

 

[Bricklayer]

*insert Russell Westbrook "what?" face*

I can guarantee you every year he's eligible Marion will get votes. he's a 17,000pt 10,000reb guy who largely played for winning teams.

ShawMarion 17700pts 10101reb 2198ast 4xAll Star 2x All NBA (0/0/2) + 1xChampion(roleplayer)
Chris Mullin 17911pts 4034reb 3450ast 5xAll Star 4x All NBA (1/2/1) + Dream Team
JamalWilkes 14644pts 5117reb 2050ast 3xAll Star 0xAll NBA (0/0/0) + 4x Champion

That said I don't think he belongs. 4x All Star 2x 3rd team All NBA is just not enough. I generally don't like second banannas in the hall anyway, and through most of his prime he was a 3rd. The Wilkes HOF thing still chafes however. That dude does not belong in there, and it opens up an uncertain floor where lots of guys get to make arguments. Marion will be one of them.

 

[ESP47]

What baffles me more than anything is that if Koufos is such a post defender, why do the guards come and help off their man to help him?

Because our defensive schemes are completely backwards. The scheme obviously is all about not letting anyone score in the paint no matter the cost....and the cost is normally leaving perimeter players wide open for 3.

Remember with Keith Smart they used to have Tyreke or Thornton drop down in the paint and double team whoever was posting up on Chuck Hayes. An iso post up on Hayes had about a 10% success rate, yet we would double team anyway.

I get having a scheme, but play to your players strengths. Don't just force everyone into a scheme. Koufos is our best 1 on 1 post defender. Let the man do what he's made a career out of.

 

[The_Jamal]

I can guarantee you every year he's eligible Marion will get votes. he's a 17,000pt 10,000reb guy who largely played for winning teams.

ShawMarion 17700pts 10101reb 2198ast 4xAll Star 2x All NBA (0/0/2) + 1xChampion(roleplayer)
Chris Mullin 17911pts 4034reb 3450ast 5xAll Star 4x All NBA (1/2/1) + Dream Team
JamalWilkes 14644pts 5117reb 2050ast 3xAll Star 0xAll NBA (0/0/0) + 4x Champion

That said I don't think he belongs. 4x All Star 2x 3rd team All NBA is just not enough. I generally don't like second banannas in the hall anyway, and through most of his prime he was a 3rd. The Wilkes HOF thing still chafes however. That dude does not belong in there, and it opens up an uncertain floor where lots of guys get to make arguments. Marion will be one of them.

Marion's a weird cookie. Never a #1 option, and never was the main dude on his teams, but he was a great defender and very few guys filled up the stat sheet like he did. He's a fringe guy I wouldn't mind letting in, because of how unique his career was and how effective he was as the best "jack of all trades" role player in NBA history

 

[Spike]

Because our defensive schemes are completely backwards. The scheme obviously is all about not letting anyone score in the paint no matter the cost....and the cost is normally leaving perimeter players wide open for 3.

Remember with Keith Smart they used to have Tyreke or Thornton drop down in the paint and double team whoever was posting up on Chuck Hayes. An iso post up on Hayes had about a 10% success rate, yet we would double team anyway.

I get having a scheme, but play to your players strengths. Don't just force everyone into a scheme. Koufos is our best 1 on 1 post defender. Let the man do what he's made a career out of.

Maybe Karl just doesn't know the kind of player Koufos is. You know, it's his first year with him.

 

[Dime Dropper]

That is hardly the point I was making. I was responding to Brick's post about Cousins' path to the HOF, and I was simply pointing out that while that would seem likely based on the other guys on the list, Shawn Marion was on it too, and he's at best a borderline HOF player.

Not exactly sure what it means to "deserve" being on a list of actual, recorded statistics. There isn't much to be deserved about it, either you do it or you don't. It's not a top 10 players of all time list that is subjective.

Weak sauce.

Anyway, I don't know about you guys, but I sure would have preferred to have had Olynyk and Bradley out there instead of Cousins tonight.