Grades v. Sonics 04/26

Superman · Apr 27, 2005

kingskings! said:

His 10 rebounds were good. The rest of his game was pathetic, with the exception of a few good defensive plays. What grade would you have given him?

For a player that's supposed to be a central part to our team, we need more than for him to rebound. It's the games when he has 22 points, 4 rebounds and 1 assist that his rebounding (and lack of ability to create for his teammates) gets criticized, not nights when he is able to grab 7 or 8 rebounds, whether they fall into his hands or not. People forget that the man is almost 7 feet tall, for crying out loud. Ten rebounds should not be that big of a deal. That should be a solid night for him, not a reason to clap and dance.

Hell, congratulations on grabbing 10 rebounds tonight, Peja, but could you join us on offense one of these days? Please?

You act as if he didn't get credit for playing a mostly solid game the other night. But when you look at his game tonight, he laid an egg. Ten rebounds or not, he didn't do the things we so desperately needed him to do. Any player would get criticized for a game like the one Peja had tonight.

Zyphen · Apr 27, 2005

The main factor is expectation. If people think it's fine for Peja to lower his mediocre 6 rpg from seasons past, to 4 (permanently), then sure... give him a C or something. Else, getting 10 for a game isn't going to do more than keep him from an F.

And what D? Seriously. People keep having this phantom notion of great D from Peja. I didn't see it. Maybe it's cause they keep looking at Bibby. Peja holds his own, that's about it. Just because he isn't getting embarrassed like Bibby, doesn't mean he's Bruce Bowen. Go watch a Pistons/Spurs/Rockets game for some D. Especially Rockets. None of their players (cept maybe Wesley) is particularly good at Defense but each one of them is great at team defense because they are conscious of the ball and when to help. Not getting blown over man-to-man is expected (cept against superstars).

Peja has at least 2 games left to prove he can do something in the playoffs. Else he's not worth keeping in light of his perceived value. If he can get something like a C or better for last night's game, then he's definitely not underpaid.

Also, I wish that if Peja picked a half, it would be the second half. Should take a cue from Mobley. Though I have problems with Mobley's tendency to break from team play, I'm glad he shows up when it counts most of the time. I'm confident in stating that as the game gets closer to the end in the playoffs, most players will play progressively harder on defense (no proof, but I think a reasonable assumption). Those are hard points to come by as the clock winds down. A clutch player in the 4th is worth 2 in the 1st quarter. If Peja scored all 9 of his points under pressure, in the fourth, and with the best defense the Sonics can bring, then he might get a C- with last night's stats. Else, what exactly did he do that Evans can't?

Team Dime · Apr 27, 2005

Zyphen said:

The main factor is expectation. If people think it's fine for Peja to lower his mediocre 6 rpg from seasons past, to 4 (permanently), then sure... give him a C or something. Else, getting 10 for a game isn't going to do more than keep him from an F.

And what D? Seriously. People keep having this phantom notion of great D from Peja. I didn't see it. Maybe it's cause they keep looking at Bibby. Peja holds his own, that's about it. Just because he isn't getting embarrassed like Bibby, doesn't mean he's Bruce Bowen. Go watch a Pistons/Spurs/Rockets game for some D. Especially Rockets. None of their players (cept maybe Wesley) is particularly good at Defense but each one of them is great at team defense because they are conscious of the ball and when to help. Not getting blown over man-to-man is expected (cept against superstars).

Peja has at least 2 games left to prove he can do something in the playoffs. Else he's not worth keeping in light of his perceived value. If he can get something like a C or better for last night's game, then he's definitely not underpaid.

Also, I wish that if Peja picked a half, it would be the second half. Should take a cue from Mobley. Though I have problems with Mobley's tendency to break from team play, I'm glad he shows up when it counts most of the time. I'm confident in stating that as the game gets closer to the end in the playoffs, most players will play progressively harder on defense (no proof, but I think a reasonable assumption). Those are hard points to come by as the clock winds down. A clutch player in the 4th is worth 2 in the 1st quarter. If Peja scored all 9 of his points under pressure, in the fourth, and with the best defense the Sonics can bring, then he might get a C- with last night's stats. Else, what exactly did he do that Evans can't?

Bibby was getting embarrassed on D? Really, that's news to me.

bigbadred00 · Apr 27, 2005

Luke has gone 2-11 and 0-7 the last 2 games. Daniels 3-9 and 3-8 the first game. Ray was 8-24 the first game.

We are getting killed by James and the lack of Passing, definitely we can't guard free throws can we. We can't win games when we get half as many free throws as the other team. It's almost impossible to win those games.

Folsom Al · Apr 27, 2005

Plenty of Room in the Misery Section

Sonics = A+

Kings < Expectations

love_them_kings · Apr 27, 2005

Since93 said:

Depending on the rest of playoffs, it may be this year.

teamdimechampionship · Apr 27, 2005

Peja hides from the ball.
Cuttino is a ballhog.
Mike has no faith in his teammates.
Brad has a broken leg.
Kenny is too small.
Ostertag is out of shape.
Skinner is too small.
Darius is a 2 guard in a PF's body.
Bobby is trying hard but he's not Bobby right now.
Eddie hustles...Him and Bobby are the only ones.
Mo looks scared.
Corliss is a Center in a 2 guards body.

We have som serious issues right now. HOME SWEET HOME! Arco is our best chance at turning this thing around!

KingCookie · Apr 27, 2005

N.U.F.A.N. said:

Historically, the team that wins both of their home games in a 7-game series has a 140-6 series record. That number gets even better for the first round- 10-0. The Sonics have a 6-0 series record when they go up 2-0, and the Kings have an 0-1 series record when they fall 0-2 (yes that was the series they got swept by the Lakers). BUT...the team that goes up 2-0 has a 56-90 record for Game 3, and 4-6 record when you only consider the first round.

(All of this crap is from whowins.com, a very cool website)

quick dog · Apr 27, 2005

If the entire Kings team undergoes a miraculous conversion from mediocrity to excellence like Jerome James has apparently done in the current playoffs, the Kings will win the NBA Championship.

Flying pigs and glaciers in hell.

N.U.F.A.N. · Apr 27, 2005

So does this mean Kings cant make it anymore?

Folsom Al · Apr 27, 2005

The proverbial FAT LADY has not started her solo yet. She's in the house, in fact I see her over there next to Mr. Petrie in the tunnel.

She will be taking requests soon. Depending on the outcome this coming Friday evening.

I have put in a request for BB King's rendition of ... Gotta Wait Till Next Year Blues

acisking · Apr 27, 2005

Bricklayer said:

You may not be a Peja homer or a Serb (and here I'm assuming you are equating the two) but you certainly appear to have SOME agenda as you may note that his rebounding was the one thing I DID give him credit for. Too bad the rest of his game was absent. Unless of course you can sit there with a straight face and seriously try to argue that people have been asking for Peja to double his rebounding at the expense of halving his points and becoming irrelevant. Quick, ask me what Peja's grade would have been had he scored his 24pts again with those 10rebs and hit several key jumpers to stem the big Seattle run in the third. Or don't, as the answer would of course invalidate your post.

Feel free to head back over to the all-cheer-all-the-time thread if this one is too rough for you. I mean calling out your leading scorer for being matched in points by Eddie House...what's next?

lol brick - beautifully said

Zyphen · Apr 27, 2005

Team Dime said:

I was speaking in general. But yeah, Bibby has been better than usual. You "defend" free throws by stopping penetration. Guys missing jump shots has as much to do with them as with the defender. Guys not going to the hoop is usually all cause of the defender.

KingCookie · Apr 27, 2005

Peja = scared of big games

I mean, how much more proof do we need? I saw him pass up two nice looking shots only to throw the ball to a Sonic, each time looking like he was playing "hot potato", he couldn't get the ball out of his hands fast enough.

teamdimechampionship- I agree completely. You got it right on the head.

acisking · Apr 27, 2005

Zyphen said:

I def. agree with that statement - Peja's defense was decent but far from terrific. The truth is that at best he is just a average or slightly above average defender. He never really shuts people down as much as he just avoids getting schooled by them. I'm not saying he is a bad defender, but its foolish to consider him a particularily good one.

RoyalDiva · Apr 27, 2005

Where is Duane Causwell when you need him??

Bricklayer · Apr 27, 2005

acisking said:

I think Peja is above average on a defender on most nights -- what he has really mastered is the art of spacing. He knows how to stand just far enough off of his man to make him uncomfortable. He doesn't overcrowd him where his lack of quickness would get exposed on penetration, but he doesn't fall so far off of him as to entirely concede the jumper. He's figured out there is an inbetween place where he can set up to make players uncomfortable and unsure of whether they want to take the contested shot over a 6'9" player, or try to drive it on a guy with a 3 or 4 foot headstart on them to the rim. Messes with their heads a little bit.

KKSloga · Apr 27, 2005

Bricklayer said:

Pedja is a player of the system. He works best when he is getting looks and the ball is moving around. How many times did he actually touch the ball last night. It was pathetic to watch everyone not pass to him all night. I mean we want him to score 25 points but we are not giving him any looks or running any plays for him. If I was in his shoes I would seriously consider leaving and taking Brad with me.

KKSloga · Apr 27, 2005

Bricklayer said:

I think Peja is above average on a defender on most nights -- what he has really mastered is the art of spacing. He knows how to stand just far enough off of his man to make him uncomfortable. He doesn't overcrowd him where his lack of quickness would get exposed on penetration, but he doesn't fall so far off of him as to entirely concede the jumper. He's figured out there is an inbetween place where he can set up to make players uncomfortable and unsure of whether they want to take the contested shot over a 6'9" player, or try to drive it on a guy with a 3 or 4 foot headstart on them to the rim. Messes with their heads a little bit.

Hence good defense

Bricklayer · Apr 27, 2005

KKSloga said:

You know what? If that's actually true then good riddance. System players who can't work beyond the confines of the system are a dime a dozen. Lets go get Fred Hoiberg. He can hit open shots if you set him up on a platter nearly as well as Peja, and he works cheap and without pretension.

Padrino · Apr 27, 2005

Bricklayer said:

You know what? If that's actually true then good riddance. System players who can't work beyond the confines of the system are a dime a dozen. Lets go get Fred Hoiberg. He can hit open shots if you set him up on a platter nearly as well as Peja, and he works cheap and without pretension.

and he's got a cool nickname.

Double E · Apr 27, 2005

KKSloga said:

It is never Peja's fault....Always somebody else. This excuse is overplayed at nausuim.

Bricklayer · Apr 27, 2005

KKSloga said:

Its above average defense, which is what I was trying give him credit for. One does wonder how much better Peja's reputation might be if his hardest core fans weren't so obnoxious on his behalf.

Its smart, solid defense. But essentially passive. Only rarely does Peja step up and really harass (at which point he crosses over into good defense), and when good offensive players get it going they can largely ignore him because he's not going to block their shot or take the ball from them with any consistency.

Not sure how this got to be about Peja's defense anyway -- it was decent enough last night.

Zyphen · Apr 27, 2005

Bricklayer said:

Give them an inch, and they'll take the arm. I think Brick was extremely generous. I'm tired of Peja's boosters harping on his "D" all the time and saying that wasn't taken into account. It would make more sense to me if Peja's defense is seen as what it really is: a non-factor. Just because other players are often a liability on defense doesn't mean Peja's great. It just means we're crappy at defense.

KKSloga said:

You know what that kind of player is called? A roleplayer. If he's going to continue acting like one then he better not expect much more than 8 mil or so. And if he's willing to take that, that's fine. Otherwise, he should get traded while "former MVP contender" is still fresh on his resume'.

I just find this whole thing absurd. I keep getting told that foreign boards are the harshest critics and expect the most of their players. Yet, on kingsfans.com, all we get are the people that think it's okay for Peja to be mediocre because it's always his teammates who are keeping him down. I thought now that Webber is gone, these kinds of arguments would become less popular... Unfortunately, I was wrong.

Do people really believe that his teammates hate him? That they do this out of spite? That they don't want Peja to succeed? That they're too petty to see past their own statistics? That they don't want to win? Has it never crossed any of your minds that there are better, more rational reasons? Browse through any of the numerous threads about Peja and I'm sure you'll see a few.

Team Dime · Apr 27, 2005

KKSloga said:

So it's never Peja's fault, it's always someone elses. Yea, maybe Peja can leave to go someplace where he is constantly spoon fed. Maybe the 4 other guys on the court can all simultaneously set picks for Peja so he can finally get some more open shots. They could also have some fluffers on the bench to massage him, to make him feel better and boost his confidence to the point where he may actually be ready to take a big shot in the 4th quarter at some point in the next 5 years or so.

AleksandarN · Apr 27, 2005

Zyphen said:

This is what I am talking about. His defense a non factor?

It is funny that you talk about some of Pedja funs being over zealous and then you go to the other extreme. It is too bad that we can not get a happy medium for all of our players. It seems to me both sides goes too far when cheering for the players we have. I will not kid myself Pedja is my secound favourite player in the NBA (Kobe being my first) but that does not mean I turn my blind on his weaknesses( rebounds and not aggressive) and blame other players or team for his shortcomings. UI said it numerous times it is up to PEdja to define what type of player his is and will become. This playoffs and next will be it for him to prove to everyone what kind of player he is.

GoGoGadget · Apr 27, 2005

My need to make the time to watch this ...ugliness... on my vacation (F-) -- Certainly I don't regret watching the game. I make it a point to watch all of the games, regardless of outcome, but this one could have waited until I was back in town.

kingskings! · Apr 28, 2005

Bricklayer said:

A D+ for not getting a meaningless triple double in a loss?

Bricklayer said:

On a "positive" note, that tied him for the 3rd highest scoring Kings player on the night (sarcasm).

Same number of points as Mobley and Songalia. Songaila had a better FG%, but Mobley's was roughly the same. 7 more rebounds than Mobley, 6 more than Songaila. 4 more minutes in the game than Mobley, 6 more than Songaila. I don't expect a SG to get more rebounds than a forward, but I do expect one of our leading scoring SG's to have a few more points, don't you? I guess not since he earned a higher grade. When will it be time to lower Mobley's grade for playing one quarter of offense per game?

How 'bout the rebounding of our bench PF though? Same points, fewer boards, but that's acceptable since he also earned a higher grade, I'll go back and study your analysis so that I can understand why.

Bricklayer said:

I'm fleeing to the lounge as quickly as my teetering high heels and tear blurred eyes will take me there and I'll never leave it again.

By the way, I don't think I claimed that I thought ANY Kings player had a good/great game, I just disagreed with your grades.

Bricklayer · Apr 28, 2005

kingskings! said:

You do that. Odd how many other people get it. But keep on trying and I'm sure it will come to you eventually.

Kool Keith · Apr 28, 2005

Padrino said:

OMG THAT IS SO TRUE. The man's a messiah ...but peja is thrice the player. Even ppl on these forums can nail open threes, but that dont make you Peja!

And since when is running a few plays for the best shooter in the game "spoon feeding".. it would seem like the logical thing to do.. instead of slagging him off for not being a pentathlete. His teammates are not keeping him down per se, but something is definately wrong when 'The Man' spends a significant time open while others around him throw up brix. I mean fine, say he's a roleplayer, soft, no heart, <insert lame diss>.. but he's still a damn good player regardless and he has the record to prove it - unlike certain other players which are put on a pedestal.. and for what? because they have a l33t marketing campaign? pffft

Grades v. Sonics 04/26

All-Star

Bench

Bench

Starter

Starter

Starter

Bench

Bench

Starter

Bench

Starter

Bench

Bench

Bench

Bench

Starter

Don't Make Me Use The Bat

G-League

G-League

Don't Make Me Use The Bat

All-Star

Double E

Guest

Don't Make Me Use The Bat

Bench

Bench

Starter

All-Star

Bench

Don't Make Me Use The Bat

G-League