This is simply not true, especially for us. Cousins and Gay are the main determinants (is that a word?) as to whether others gets involved, simply because they handle most of the possesions
[Grades] Grades v. Pacers 1/24/2014
- Thread starter Bricklayer
- Start date
This is simply not true, especially for us. Cousins and Gay are the main determinants (is that a word?) as to whether others gets involved, simply because they handle most of the possesions
Telemachus
Starter
I didn't see them get many touches last night.
Problem is Kings have less than a month before a tough decision comes up, and early results are not promising. He's doing the same thing over and over again. Does Malone draws such plays, or IT knows there's no alternative for him and deviates from the plan? Against Minnesota Malone had no problem reducing Thomas to bystander.
Chubbs
Starter
I completely agree. That was our only chance. A lot of people pre game said someone would have to get a career high to compete. Well, it happened.
I just see it as a stylistic back slide. Instead of coming together, it became isolation ball. Which was successful but ultimately isn't the way to play.
I'm still spoiled from the glory years. I miss passing.
jcwkings
All-Star
People forget that Isaiah is 24 years old and has been a full time starter and sole primary ball handler in his career for approximately 2 months. Not to mention this is the first time in his pro career he has played in a system with structure under Malone. The main gripe on IT is game management and situational decision making, those are things that get better with time as he becomes an NBA veteran. He came into this training camp under the assumption his role was going to be a spark plug scorer off the bench, he did that extremely well pre-Gay trade, and then mid season he is finally thrust as a full time starter and is asked to change his mentality and learn the tendencies of a big scorer in Gay.
At the start of the Houston game I saw an IT determined to get his big 2 their touches early, and as the season progresses and maybe next season as he goes into training camp knowing he is the starting PG, I think you will see a big change from IT, as far as knowing when to look for his offense, how and when to get his big 2 their touches in their spots, and getting others involved as well. You can't ask for perfection right away, especially when his role has changed so much overnight. You don't just give up on a guy as talented, dedicated and young as IT now unless there is a clear upgrade you can trade him for, or if you get a better "fit" PG packaged with other guys that can produce for you.
We were willing to wait 3 seasons for Cousins to bring it every night and gave him passes because there was no structure, ditto with Tyreke with his constant role changes and no structure, IT was part of the same mess who's role uncertainty continued into this season, I think it is more than fair that IT get some wiggle room as far as fans accepting that he is not going to be the perfect PG they want, he is going to make some mistakes, but if he is producing like he currently is I think its a pretty fair trade off in a season where we aren't making the playoffs anyways, and the rest of the season is about learning how to win as a team. Now if we're having the same conversation when IT is 26-27 entering his prime then that is another story.
At the start of the Houston game I saw an IT determined to get his big 2 their touches early, and as the season progresses and maybe next season as he goes into training camp knowing he is the starting PG, I think you will see a big change from IT, as far as knowing when to look for his offense, how and when to get his big 2 their touches in their spots, and getting others involved as well. You can't ask for perfection right away, especially when his role has changed so much overnight. You don't just give up on a guy as talented, dedicated and young as IT now unless there is a clear upgrade you can trade him for, or if you get a better "fit" PG packaged with other guys that can produce for you.
We were willing to wait 3 seasons for Cousins to bring it every night and gave him passes because there was no structure, ditto with Tyreke with his constant role changes and no structure, IT was part of the same mess who's role uncertainty continued into this season, I think it is more than fair that IT get some wiggle room as far as fans accepting that he is not going to be the perfect PG they want, he is going to make some mistakes, but if he is producing like he currently is I think its a pretty fair trade off in a season where we aren't making the playoffs anyways, and the rest of the season is about learning how to win as a team. Now if we're having the same conversation when IT is 26-27 entering his prime then that is another story.
Last edited:
bajaden
Hall of Famer
I suspect that if he hasn't learned that part of being a PG is passing the ball by now, he'll never learn! Please!
I just think IT should have a more limited role in scoring and a bigger role in the offense.. 2 different things. Last night, D-Will had a horrible night all around, but we know what he can do. I think if IT tries to incorporate his teammates more, he'll be an overall better player. I have no problem with IT being our starting pg for the rest of the season as I did when he was promoted to starter. ITs a scoring pg which has become a pretty common thing in today's game.
You said that most probably saw us getting dominated (and I'm guessing in part because we were shorthanded). My point was that it's possible that we actually fared better (for the first few quarters) precisely because we were so short handed.
Learning how to distribute to two other ball dominant players isn't an easy thing to do.
Glenn
Hall of Famer
Why? It doesn't seem difficult at all unless you are worried more about your own stats.
How log has IT been playing with Gay and Cousins. You would think it would take time for him to learn where each player wants the ball and get it to them at the right time. Chemistry is something that is built over tike. Crazy. I know.
Glenn
Hall of Famer
He's been playing with Cuz for 2 1/2 years. He started 66 games last year. If he can't find a 6'11" man, he has a problem.
I still don't understand. Actually I don't agree with your premise. What we saw yesterday was a guy who had little interest in sharing the ball with anyone when the game was on the line. He had a guy who couldn't miss, MT, who was not hard to find yet still didn't pass him the ball. I think he has an inherent disinterest in anyone's stats but his own. I doubt very much that Malone told IT to not let anyone else touch the ball in the last 8 minutes. It is almost literally true that no one touched the ball except MT who made the one shot he was allowed to take. That's one shot in 8 minutes. MT was not hiding.
Larry89
Disgruntled Kings Fan
Call me crazy but did the pick and roll defense look much better? I think sometimes poor transition defense and pick and roll defense falls on Cousin's shoulders, The team played very well defensively tonight and maybe this is a game that gets Thornton going this season... or atleast until he gets traded..
Quoted for truth.
The notion that IT has only started for a little bit is an absolute farce of an argument. Can IT improve? Probably, but to buy the idea that he will completely redesign himself around Gay and Cousins is a fool's errand.
IT is a great scorer who is limited defensively. He showed exactly who he was last night, at both extremes.
Last edited:
rainmaker
Hall of Famer
It takes all of about 5 mins, if that, in a pickup game with guys you've never played with before to recognize who the top 1-2 players are and then feed them the ball.
A perfectly timed back-cut or in transition when you think a guy may stop at the 3pt line and cuts to the basket instead would require improved chemistry. Looking off a Gay in transition, wide open next to you or looking off a Cuz in a pick & pop situation when you take both defenders with you and Boogie is wide open and forcing a jumper over both defenders, are not chemistry issues. They're mindset issues.
BTW, if no chemistry makes getting Rudy the ball an impossible task, then why, please tell me, did Rudy score 24 and 26 pts in his first two games ever next to IT on a combined 18-32 shooting? And please tell me why, chemistry was not an issue in IT finding MT for the first 3 quarters last night but it's implied as an issue in the 4th and OT? And why is it that two guys in Rudy/Cuz who've played together the exact same amount of time as IT has with Rudy, appear to have much superior chemistry between the two and regularly set each other up when playing the two man game?
Last edited:
Kingsfan23
All-Star
Taking a look at the Landry grade and I am already concerned about the contract. Most of the board didn't agree with the signing, we have no shortage of Pfs, and you can't be giving away contracts with that kind of cap hit unless the players are necessary.
As much confidence as we are starting to gain in our new FO this contract still makes me scratch my head. I hope a year from now I feel different about landry's presence
As much confidence as we are starting to gain in our new FO this contract still makes me scratch my head. I hope a year from now I feel different about landry's presence
Cousins has always had trouble finishing anywhere from 3-9 feet. I won't dispute that Thomas likely contributes to Cousins' low percentage 3-9 feet from the rim, but so as every other point guard (Evans, Udrih and Vasquez). I agree that Thomas played hero ball yesterday, but with Cousins and Gay on the floor I doubt he does it.
So you don't think a player who has been torching opposing teams as efficiently as Isaiah Thomas is won't have trouble recognizing who the other top dogs are and deferring to them?
Chemistry is an issue in the 4th quarter and OT because defense tightens and is not as loose as it was during the first three quarters. Maybe a team with chemistry issues can stick around, but in the 4th quarter running offensive sets to precision becomes more imperative. Did anybody believe the top defensive team in the NBA wouldn't tighten the rope after the first quarter?
Glenn
Hall of Famer
My point was that he had a demonstrably better shooter on the floor with him and he ignored him. Can you acknowledge that? It makes little difference if it is Cuz or Gay. MT was on fire! IT periodically in the game would do stupid things but we were dissuaded from criticizing him until his stupidity was so obvious it couldn't be ignored. Read the game thread.
Glenn
Hall of Famer
Absolutely although I may be lacking an understanding of what you are trying to say. IT will ignore anyone but IT.
My point is that the poster's comment that Isaiah should recognize the top dogs as soon as he sets foot on the court is unrealistic. Thomas is killing opposing point guards right now, so it's going to take him time to realize he isn't the top dog.
Chubbs
Starter
I've argued against this so many times and everyone seems to think these are his first starts ever or something. I think he had 98 going into this season.
Look, ray hasn't played with anyone on this team, yet he had 4 assists in 8 minutes the last we saw him. How many excuses are we going to make for the guy? He's just not a good pg. He's a great scorer. But those are easy to find. Sorry. They are. Heck, we had one in our own starting lineup all these games. Hello Marcus Thornton, enjoy getting shots while you can!
Telemachus
Starter
If IT doesn't realize that he isn't the top dog on this team, then he has a major ego problem. Even Grant and Jerry can see that IT is the 3rd best player on the Kings.
TyFreak Evans
Bench
Well even if you didn't I don't think my supposition that most people would think a Kings team missing Cuz and Gay would be even more greatly obliterated is that far-fetched.
Well then trade Cousins and Gay and build around Thomas! Since he's so efficient and torching everyone else why do we need to build around Cousins? Let's trade Cousins and Gay for Hibbert and Thabo and have Thomas take 40 shots a game.
HereWeBoogie
Hall of Famer
They are also killing him on the other end of the floor. and his selfish me first mentality is killing some of the guys on our own team.
Problem is that IT isn't killing the opposing PG. They're letting him score, because it's easier to defend the Kings that way. It's by design.
Whenever they want to shut him down, they can. IT does not break down a defense the way Cousins or Gay can.
IT should have seen that keeping MT going would result in more open looks for himself. He's not new to this game, he's not a guy with a low BBIQ, but he IS a glory hound.
Similar threads
- Locked
- Poll
- Locked
- Poll
