Unfortunately, I wasn't able to watch the game nor even watch that 4 point play, except for the above GIF. NBA rules state that a player is in the act of shooting when he "gathers" the ball. That GIF doesn't show any foul but somebody previously mentioned that DWill pushed him from behind. Was it clearly before the gather? Had he not brought the ball together into both hands yet?
[Grades] Grades v. Pacers 1/24/2014
- Thread starter Bricklayer
- Start date
Unfortunately, I wasn't able to watch the game nor even watch that 4 point play, except for the above GIF. NBA rules state that a player is in the act of shooting when he "gathers" the ball. That GIF doesn't show any foul but somebody previously mentioned that DWill pushed him from behind. Was it clearly before the gather? Had he not brought the ball together into both hands yet?
K
KingMilz
Guest
Williams to me seems to be the ultimate confidence player, I know every player is somewhat dependent on confidence but Williams seems like a true extreme case. Guys like IT/Gay/Cuz hell even Jimmer even when there game /esteem is some what down you know they can come back from it, I never get that feeling with D-Will.
I just think for his sake/teams sake maybe as soon as he enters a game maybe run a post up or design a play where he cuts to the basket for a feed just to get him going. It really seems if he misses or starts off not being involved he just ghosts his way through the game and is far more prone to doing stupid acts. Even though he does lack quiet a few things I like his simple athletic game with Gay/Cousins.
I just think for his sake/teams sake maybe as soon as he enters a game maybe run a post up or design a play where he cuts to the basket for a feed just to get him going. It really seems if he misses or starts off not being involved he just ghosts his way through the game and is far more prone to doing stupid acts. Even though he does lack quiet a few things I like his simple athletic game with Gay/Cousins.
Dime Dropper
All-Star
Yes. Besides, even in the GIF you can see that the ref does not even go to call a foul until George is in the air. He wasn't reacting to a push leading to the gather, he was calling something that didn't happen.
Love how in the postgame interview IT said "we gotta try to find [Thornton], especially cos he was the hot hand tonight, we got to let him get the ball and make a play".
Yeah ... we. As in Isaiah Thomas and everyone else who touched the ball while Thornton was on the floor. Oh wait what, no one else touched the ball?
Yeah ... we. As in Isaiah Thomas and everyone else who touched the ball while Thornton was on the floor. Oh wait what, no one else touched the ball?
chief bromden
Starter
Refs didn't want us to win this one. That call on the last play was obviously a top team vs bad team foul. Oh well, in the near future we will start getting better calls.
Aside from that, Derrick Williams was absolutely terrible last night. Thornton and IT were fun to watch. We should have won that game, but at least we aren't in the playoff hunt because then it'd actually matter that the Kings let this game slip through their fingers. Learn and move on ... or hopefully the FO learns to move on from most of the players who saw the court yesterday.
Aside from that, Derrick Williams was absolutely terrible last night. Thornton and IT were fun to watch. We should have won that game, but at least we aren't in the playoff hunt because then it'd actually matter that the Kings let this game slip through their fingers. Learn and move on ... or hopefully the FO learns to move on from most of the players who saw the court yesterday.
Chubbs
Starter
It seemed like we didn't run an offensive set all night. It was 2011-2012 flashback time, just run and gun, hope they go in.
Nice career highs. Would have been nice to get someone (anyone) else involved, but, that was our best and only shot at winning. One in a million game. 80 from our backcourt? Kinda crazy. Front court just left watching. Glad to see MT can still play. I think he'd be best in a gunner role off the bench. Teams looking for that hopefully saw this game.
It sure didn't seem like the foul call was on the early grab, but on the shot. There was no foul on the actual shot, clean release. I'll be curious to see what the NBA says.
Nice career highs. Would have been nice to get someone (anyone) else involved, but, that was our best and only shot at winning. One in a million game. 80 from our backcourt? Kinda crazy. Front court just left watching. Glad to see MT can still play. I think he'd be best in a gunner role off the bench. Teams looking for that hopefully saw this game.
It sure didn't seem like the foul call was on the early grab, but on the shot. There was no foul on the actual shot, clean release. I'll be curious to see what the NBA says.
Sorry, don't agree. I like our two and would miss them. Just had to throw this in now. Go Kongs!
TyFreak Evans
Bench
Officiating stuff on the side, we took the team with the best record in the NBA to overtime. In a game that most probably saw us getting dominated in every way possible (because Indiana, folks, really is that "insert appropriate terminology here" good), we hung around. We showed signs of "greatness". We showed we can play that game we call basketball. I give us two thumbs up for at least putting up a fight and not backing down from the challenge. Even in a loss, victory can be earned...Stay tuned, my friends. I think this is gonna be a great ride!!!
Heuge
Starter
That was called a moving screen, right???So this is a foul huh? ok NBA
kupman
Starter
That was one of the most entertaining games of the year. I don't mind too much that we lost given that I see this season as a training camp for next year. I just want to see the team come together as a team and I am seeing it. I do mind the blown call on DWill at the end of the game. Good grief. That was the good D we have been clamoring for all season.
Ironically, I think that Brick was too generous with IT's grade. It was ITs "B" game at best with a low FG% and almost as many TO's as assists.
If we can get 40 pts from Thornton, 35 pts from IT, and 20+ from DMC and 20+ from Gay each game we will be a tough team to beat
.
Ironically, I think that Brick was too generous with IT's grade. It was ITs "B" game at best with a low FG% and almost as many TO's as assists.
If we can get 40 pts from Thornton, 35 pts from IT, and 20+ from DMC and 20+ from Gay each game we will be a tough team to beat
.
Glenn
Hall of Famer
I think IT bought a bus ticket out of Sacramento to be traded to a team that enjoys the illusion of excellence and doesn't mind the mind numbing ability to kill a team at crucial moments. MT has shown that given the proper team, that same old great shooter still exists. There is huge value in both and I think we neither need nor want either. I don't want either, to be clear. I'll let the FO do what they wish.
bajaden
Hall of Famer
I have league pass with Dish, and I don't get a choice. I think it comes down to the individual provider. Unfortunately I had to listen to the Pacer's announcers. Buckner doesn't know when to just shut the F up. As Cruzdude said, I made use of my mute button.
Actually in such a situation I almost feel like we would stand a better chance winning the game playing without Cousins and Gay. It's like the whole unexpected underdog thing. Indiana was not prepared to have us play without our two best players, and we just completely went away from anything resembling running an offense and told our two gunners to go out there and gun. Thankfully, they made quite a number of their shots. That helped us put them in a hole, and once they had time to adjust they figured it out and got back in the game (and won it with some help from the refs).
This game showed that Kings start two sixth man type of players. One of them still need a PG to feed him, but both enjoy free flowing, gunning approach to the game. Thing is Thornton showed over the recent games that he's willing to fight on D, what makes him average defender at least, so as he becomes 27 y.o. this summer, Marcus still have quite a few good years in him so he might make just as good a 6th man for this team as the other T. Plus he's actually under contract for another year...
bajaden
Hall of Famer
Well I doubt many on this forum thought this would even be a competition prior to the game, much less, that we would have the lead for the entire game except for the first few minutes of the first quarter. So kudos to the team for a great effort while undermanned. Its just a bit to easy to put the mantle of shame on Williams for the four point play. Obviously, he did what he was supposed to do, but didn't get the right result. Thank you very much Mr. Ref! If I'm going to lay blame, its going to be on, yep, you guessed it, Mr. Thomas. He played the last 5 or 6 minutes of the game like he thought the game was already wrapped up and we had a 25 point lead. For some reason he failed to take notice that while he was taking the last 6 or 7 shots of the game, and missing, without running any plays, the Pacers were slowly chipping away at our lead. So while we may have gotten jobbed by the Ref's at the end, it shouldn't have come down to that play to begin with.
Someone asked why Williams ignored an open IT on the perimeter as he chose to drive into three defenders. Well, and this isn't an excuse, but when one player dominates the ball for most of the night and ignores everyone else (except Thornton for the first three quarters) you tend to get more selfish with the ball and suddenly decide you want a piece of the hero pie. It was a dumb decision on Williams part, but having played on a few teams with selfish players that believe that they can do it all, without my, or any of my other teammates help, I know that this is often the result. Yeah I know, everyone loves the cute little munchkin, and I shouldn't pick on him. Point is, I loved him as well for the majority of the game. What I don't love are those moments where he seems to go into a world of his own and forgets that he's part of a team.
Someone asked why Williams ignored an open IT on the perimeter as he chose to drive into three defenders. Well, and this isn't an excuse, but when one player dominates the ball for most of the night and ignores everyone else (except Thornton for the first three quarters) you tend to get more selfish with the ball and suddenly decide you want a piece of the hero pie. It was a dumb decision on Williams part, but having played on a few teams with selfish players that believe that they can do it all, without my, or any of my other teammates help, I know that this is often the result. Yeah I know, everyone loves the cute little munchkin, and I shouldn't pick on him. Point is, I loved him as well for the majority of the game. What I don't love are those moments where he seems to go into a world of his own and forgets that he's part of a team.
Glenn
Hall of Famer
As to MT, there are questions to be answered although if this is the MT that will show up periodically, he is a great SG coming off the bench where he can shoot at will or DWill.
He has to be the only long range shooter off the bench. I don't know why it didn't work before and that is what I am relying on mostly. Can MT come off the bench where he has failed in the past? My memory is foggy but if most of his time coming off the bench was with IT as pg, the question is answered.I think IT is a team killer and await the storm of notes defending him. I am fed up. Just remember I didn't call him a bad athlete but a team killer. For those who admire his athleticism and scoring, bravo! I want the team to win. If a guy can put up 11 shots in the last 8 minutes of a great game and the hot hand, MT, is only shooting one which he made, there is something very wrong. I have made up my mind what it is. There were 14 assists last night. I won't do the detailed math but that means roughly 80 pts were unassisted.
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Chubbs
Starter
Honestly, that was a brutal game to watch. All concept of team ball thrown out the window for just nonsense shots one after another, no passing. Hey, they went in last night. Good for them. Even Smart led teams won games now and then. This was not a team, this was two guys shooting whenever they touched it. Not sure how anyone can see this game as a team coming together when two guys took 58 shots.
I hope the bad habits coming out of games like this can be squelched upon the return of our stars. It's not winning basketball. When both your guards get career highs and you lose? I mean, cmon. No one takes this junk seriously, right? Was our PG just going for a career high at the end of the game when he just stopped even pretending to run an offense as again he lets another team back in the game? How many times have we seen it? Gets old.
I bet the locker room was silent again. Except our guards who were probably toasting each other for how awesome they are. Wonder how the other 10 guys felt as they were frozen out? Probably in a different part of the locker room trying to figure out how exactly one gets the ball away from our PG. Heck, MT too. Not like he was looking for him either.
That said, we should have won. That wasn't a foul, if anything it was a moving screen. But I'd rather lose the right way than win the wrong way (this season anyway). And last night was not what this team is supposed to be about with Cuz and Rudy leading the way. It was playground ball. Belongs on the playground.
Bring it on Mouskateers. I'm beyond caring.
I hope the bad habits coming out of games like this can be squelched upon the return of our stars. It's not winning basketball. When both your guards get career highs and you lose? I mean, cmon. No one takes this junk seriously, right? Was our PG just going for a career high at the end of the game when he just stopped even pretending to run an offense as again he lets another team back in the game? How many times have we seen it? Gets old.
I bet the locker room was silent again. Except our guards who were probably toasting each other for how awesome they are. Wonder how the other 10 guys felt as they were frozen out? Probably in a different part of the locker room trying to figure out how exactly one gets the ball away from our PG. Heck, MT too. Not like he was looking for him either.
That said, we should have won. That wasn't a foul, if anything it was a moving screen. But I'd rather lose the right way than win the wrong way (this season anyway). And last night was not what this team is supposed to be about with Cuz and Rudy leading the way. It was playground ball. Belongs on the playground.
Bring it on Mouskateers. I'm beyond caring.
TyFreak Evans
Bench
GoodOldDouwe
G-League
Whoa, hold it right there! You're forgetting the Trail Blazers commentary! Probably the most boring announcers in the NBA.
Do you think they'll eventually replace them one the new stadium is built? Jerry looks like a nice guy, but Napier is just annoying. I think Napier is biased when he talks about IT and DMC... Cavs have pretty good announcers.
Glenn
Hall of Famer
The point guard determines if a team game happens or not.
I think everyone forgot what Thornton is capable of doing. In 2011, he averaged 38.1mins 21.3 pts 4.7rebs 3.4 asts 1.7stls while shooting at .450. Thornton didn't attack the rim more often than we've seen because of their giant front court, but he had a couple tip ins and when he did attack the basket, overall he went 5/5. I don't think Thornton will get these quality shots when DMC and Gay comes back unless IT is willing to accept a smaller role. I think something that the entire team can benefit off of is a pg who can pass, defend, and shoot FTs. IT is a scoring pg and it doesn't always benefits the team when he's looking to get his own shot first. Thornton had an off year in 2012/2013 after Tyreke was being forced to play off the ball at the 2 position (stupid crap), while IT was promoted to starter, and Thornton was benched.
I don't know. We had two guys in street clothes that are not only a big part of our team but have proven to be pretty good at getting open shots for their teammates as well. Normally our point guard has more options and more help.
Glenn
Hall of Famer
There are 5 guys on the court and it really disappointed me that the plan for this game either was to ignore them or one of the players was ignoring the plan. I saw nothing wrong with the first three quarters. After that, all coaching plans seemed to have been thrown out the window. I think one of the players has limited ability to be coached. When the tension level rises, when the game is on the line, our pg's brain seems to cease to function and he goes on auto-pilot which means he sees no one - absolutely no-one. He ignored MT in the last 8 minutes. There is no excuse for that.
Which player do you think has a limited ability to be coached.
Yea, Thomas got tunnel vision last night, but he's still learning how to be a real point guard in crunch time under a real coach. I highly doubt he got any valuable coaching advice from prior regimes. I think as time goes on, he will eventually learn to defer to other players.
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