[Grades] Grades v. Klay Thompson 1/23/2015

[Chubbs]

I can see only a few reasons why Collison, Sessions, McCallum, McLemore, Stauskas, DWill, Casspi, or even the athletic Gay cannot do that fast pace offense when they are completely healthy. These guys can all run fast if they want to run and move fast.

One issue is commitment. If the players are lazy and just want to cruise/coast, then it cannot ever be implemented the right way.

Another issue is inexperience. McCallum and McLemore (an athletic player with blazing speed) are only on their sophomore year and Stauskas is a rookie. Actually and just a side note, some fans are saying PDA failed to get us shooters. But guess what? Aren't McLemore and Stauskas suppose to be good shooters?

And who would have thought that Sessions will play slow motion and this poorly?

PDA is the one who told everyone Nik and Ben are great shooters. They were selected for that season. He also selected Sessions.

That's not PDA's fault? It's his job to know who he is signing and picking and if they fail, that's kinda on the guy who went out and got those players.

We know the theory behind pace. The problem is we are 5-14 since trying to implement a faster pace. Talk theory all you want, the results speak for themselves. Took a near .500 team with a brutal schedule and a missing star, and turned it into a team giving up NBA records and losing almost three times as many games as it wins.

 

[KingsFanGER]

PDA is the one who told everyone Nik and Ben are great shooters. They were selected for that season. He also selected Sessions.

That's not PDA's fault? It's his job to know who he is signing and picking and if they fail, that's kinda on the guy who went out and got those players.

Of course PDA is accountable for his player acquisitions. Whats debatable is, that his roster doesn't fit for an offense, which looks for an easy basket by pushing the ball and relys on DMC and Gay if this easy basket can't be found.
With McLemore, Stauskas, Sessions, DC, Ray, JT, Casspi, Gay, Cousins and even D-Will we have the tools to play like that. Cousins is more mobile, than most of the centers in this league. Gay is super athletic. There is no reason, that JT can't run the floor hard like other big man. If Bogut can keep up with Curry and Thompson, there is no reason Cousins is not able to keep up with a slightly faster playstyle in SAC.
The problem is that, while we have a roster, that is able to play like that, we absolutely fail to implement a consistent and efficient offense while keeping the defensive energy high enough.
We have the correct vision but don't execute it properly.
In my opinion that's because of mental problems and lack of motivation with the players and mainly because of a subpar coach in Corbin.

 

[Spike]

That PDA's vision is the correct vision is clearly debatable, given our successes and failures this year. Ditto that we "have the right tools" to run. Malone had many individual players playing above their ability using a different style. It's quite possible that Malone actually had the players working in a style that was suited to their strengths, no?

Meanwhile, PDA is looking for something entirely different, and the players are clearly struggling to implement it. Just because you think you have players that can do something, doesn't mean they actually can. PDA may think he has a running team, but if we do, it's a homeless man's version of it. He may think he brought in shooters, but shooting, a skill that should be one of the easiest to translate from team to team, seems to still be an issue. That's entirely on his ability to assess talent.

 

[lawlman91]

Everyone can try to run, but that doesn't mean that that strategy will maximize winning potential. So far it has not surpassed the winning potential of Malone-ball, with this team. Is it because of lack of effort? These guys are trying to get over the Malone-firing-hump and sometimes regress in frustration. It looks like it is more about mental fortitude than effort. PDA couldn't see this coming with his vision. But we have already seen enough games and painful minutes to show that this kind of play just doesn't work for this team. Can we play PDA's game? Yes. Will it win? So far, no. Even when we win we sometimes doubt.

 

[KingsFanGER]

Everyone can try to run, but that doesn't mean that that strategy will maximize winning potential. So far it has not surpassed the winning potential of Malone-ball, with this team. Is it because of lack of effort? These guys are trying to get over the Malone-firing-hump and sometimes regress in frustration. It looks like it is more about mental fortitude than effort. PDA couldn't see this coming with his vision. But we have already seen enough games and painful minutes to show that this kind of play just doesn't work for this team. Can we play PDA's game? Yes. Will it win? So far, no. Even when we win we sometimes doubt.

Well what really kills us in games is the lack of defense and the turnovers, cause we still think we can be successful by giving the ball to Cousins and Gay and get out of the way. This has nothing to do with a vision of a team, that seeks early baskets if possible. I agree that it's mainly a mental thing and PDA clearly didn't expect this. After all the Malone firing was a huge mistake. The idea of a team playing at a reasonable pace and getting into the offense early is not.

 

[pshn80]

Like Cuz says in the Bee this morning, PACE is just an excuse, DEFENSIVE EFFORT is the problem. And let me add - turnovers and those we had since the beginning of the season.

 

[lawlman91]

Well what really kills us in games is the lack of defense and the turnovers, cause we still think we can be successful by giving the ball to Cousins and Gay and get out of the way. This has nothing to do with a vision of a team, that seeks early baskets if possible. I agree that it's mainly a mental thing and PDA clearly didn't expect this. After all the Malone firing was a huge mistake. The idea of a team playing at a reasonable pace and getting into the offense early is not.

Well what really kills us in games is the lack of defense and the turnovers

Agreed

cause we still think we can be successful by giving the ball to Cousins and Gay and get out of the way.

I don't know if its accurate to say that that is the strategy we used in the beginning of this year. If it was, then I wouldn't have a problem with doing that since it was winning basketball

This has nothing to do with a vision of a team, that seeks early baskets if possible.

Sorry, I don't understand this sentence

I agree that it's mainly a mental thing and PDA clearly didn't expect this. After all the Malone firing was a huge mistake.

A combination of both mental issues, defense, and the adoption of a suboptimal strategy has resulted in recent losses

The idea of a team playing at a reasonable pace and getting into the offense early is not.

It's not a bad idea with a different roster. With this roster, we're best off doing what was done in the beginning of this year, fast pace or not, since it was winning

 

[pshn80]

Somehow I think the early winning was the anomaly here. Most of us guessed that this was at best a 35% to 40% team as we started out, not a winning team. I think that was right. The shake- up of the team has dropped us to a current 15% to 20% team. I think we will improve on that as we go through the rest of the season but not by a great deal. Addition of some better players would help that % a bit. I don't think anything we do this season would cause us to play as high as 50% ball the rest of the way out. We are just too thin everywhere.

 

[dude12]

The problem with this team is that the increased pace is looking for those open jump shots early in the shot clock....not necessarily getting to he rim. This team doesn't shoot from the outside well enough. It does get to the foul line if w go back to the original plan with Malone. That fact is a big deal.....you know, getting teams in foul trouble, which doesn't quite fit with the fast pace......can't shoot, terrible plan to increase pace.

 

[kupman]

Somehow I think the early winning was the anomaly here. Most of us guessed that this was at best a 35% to 40% team as we started out, not a winning team. I think that was right. The shake- up of the team has dropped us to a current 15% to 20% team. I think we will improve on that as we go through the rest of the season but not by a great deal. Addition of some better players would help that % a bit. I don't think anything we do this season would cause us to play as high as 50% ball the rest of the way out. We are just too thin everywhere.

Precisely.

 

[whozit]

Somehow I think the early winning was the anomaly here. Most of us guessed that this was at best a 35% to 40% team as we started out, not a winning team. I think that was right. The shake- up of the team has dropped us to a current 15% to 20% team. I think we will improve on that as we go through the rest of the season but not by a great deal. Addition of some better players would help that % a bit. I don't think anything we do this season would cause us to play as high as 50% ball the rest of the way out. We are just too thin everywhere.

So, you also think the team PDA assembled pretty much sucks. I'm sorry, I disagree. The team isn't anywhere near great but it's nowhere near as bad as the recent record indicates.

 

[kupman]

Its a stupid thing to even try to dig.

That's what its come down to. In order to continue trying to support the insupportable smart people are having to say stupid things and double down on it.

Michael Malone is absolutely guaranteed of another head coaching job, likely next year, because we were jackasses. If he's not laughing all the way to his future bank, its purely because he seemed to be the coach with a real connection to his players. That's a rare thing a little dweeb like PDA might not get. Talk about misplaced arrogance.

The Mike Malone led Kings did in fact look like children against the Warriors on opening night and we were fully loaded with both Gay and DMC. I stand by my statement that Mike is probably not laughing at the KT quote because Mike is a smart man and knows that he himself was embarrassed in much the same manner on 10-29.

You have now called my posts both "embarrassing" and "stupid." I wish that you wouldn't.

From the outset, I have stated that I do not understand or agree with the Malone firing. However, I also understand that I may not know all that happened and will never know all that happened, so my perspective is limited. Furthermore, I did not, and still do not, see the point of becoming very angry (even enraged) and resort to name-calling. Would my rage somehow influence PDA to do things differently? Would it somehow change the situation?

And yes, I do remain supportive of the owner and front office. I may not agree with some of their decisions, but they are in fact a big part of the Kings and therefore I remain supportive. It is not like PDA has committed some kind of human rights violation.

 

[steelevt]

Somehow I think the early winning was the anomaly here. Most of us guessed that this was at best a 35% to 40% team as we started out, not a winning team. I think that was right. The shake- up of the team has dropped us to a current 15% to 20% team. I think we will improve on that as we go through the rest of the season but not by a great deal. Addition of some better players would help that % a bit. I don't think anything we do this season would cause us to play as high as 50% ball the rest of the way out. We are just too thin everywhere.

The problem is that sometimes teams over achieve. Ie 2013-14 suns. Towards the end of the year the Kings were playing close to .500 ball with cousins gay and IT all playing. So though surprised, I believed it wasn't out of the question for the team to start off where they left off. They were healthy and had an offseason to build off of.

 

[whozit]

.............

And yes, I do remain supportive of the owner and front office. I may not agree with some of their decisions, but they are in fact a big part of the Kings and therefore I remain supportive. It is not like PDA has committed some kind of human rights violation.

I am hopeful for the owner, distrust like I do all politicians PDA and have a leery feeling about Mullin. Maybe he hasn't committed a human rights violation but PDA IS the GM of the Sacramento Kings and he took part in the hari-kari of this Kings season. Supportive? No, but hopeful if only in the sense that I don't want any more damage done.

 

[Spike]

Somehow I think the early winning was the anomaly here. Most of us guessed that this was at best a 35% to 40% team as we started out, not a winning team. I think that was right. The shake- up of the team has dropped us to a current 15% to 20% team. I think we will improve on that as we go through the rest of the season but not by a great deal. Addition of some better players would help that % a bit. I don't think anything we do this season would cause us to play as high as 50% ball the rest of the way out. We are just too thin everywhere.

Were we a 35 - 40% win team prior to the start of the year?
I think most of us were in that boat. Given past information, it was a safe assumption.

Did Malone have us playing above that?
Yes. Unequivocally so. We were playing a style suited to our players, and unseen since the turn of the millennium. It's not hyperbole to say that players were having career years, and we were playing a sustainable, if not ugly, style.

Was this team going to regress?
This cannot be answered, regardless of how many people want to assume it to be so. We can't assume we were going to regress, but given the way we were playing, the eye test says it was sustainable. Now, injuries (clearly an issue this year) have played a factor, and we were too thin/inexperienced in several positions, but assuming full health, it's not crazy to say we would be flirting with .500.

It's entirely possible that we were this year's anomaly. Winning ugly. Winning with defense. Sustainable, but not fun for data types like PDA, because it "doesn't make sense". Just because data trends in a certain direction doesn't mean it will follow in actuality. Sports history is rife with teams that don't follow statistical trends.

 

[Chubbs]

Of course PDA is accountable for his player acquisitions. Whats debatable is, that his roster doesn't fit for an offense, which looks for an easy basket by pushing the ball and relys on DMC and Gay if this easy basket can't be found.
With McLemore, Stauskas, Sessions, DC, Ray, JT, Casspi, Gay, Cousins and even D-Will we have the tools to play like that. Cousins is more mobile, than most of the centers in this league. Gay is super athletic. There is no reason, that JT can't run the floor hard like other big man. If Bogut can keep up with Curry and Thompson, there is no reason Cousins is not able to keep up with a slightly faster playstyle in SAC.
The problem is that, while we have a roster, that is able to play like that, we absolutely fail to implement a consistent and efficient offense while keeping the defensive energy high enough.
We have the correct vision but don't execute it properly.
In my opinion that's because of mental problems and lack of motivation with the players and mainly because of a subpar coach in Corbin.

And we circle right back to "Who made Corbin the coach?"

Vivek wanted Mullin or Jackson, says the rumor mill. He didn't want to waste this season but PDA or someone convinced him Corbin would win more games NOW and take us to the playoffs. And that Malone needed to be fired NOW. Vivek articulated that belief to the media. The smart people he leans on told him so. I see Vivek as a man with delusions, but not a liar.

PDA, liar or incompetent? Jury is out. I also lean toward incompetence. He seems to really believe this team can run and shoot as assembled. He's just wrong.

People keep revising history and acting like this team had no chance of doing anything this year, it was all a fluke. Malone was fired for underperforming, remember? The owner talked playoffs at the point he was fired. We were going to improve.

Now people are talking like this free fall was expected. By whom? Sure as hell wasn't the front office or owner.

If Vivek believed that, that immediate improvement was inevitable, then PDA has to be in deep deep trouble with keeping his job. It might take Corbin till march to win as many games as Malone did in 24. Remember, Corbin was going to win MORE games than Malone. When will Corbin win his 11th game? He's already lost more than Malone did this season.

 

[Spike]

PDA, liar or incompetent?

Embrace the beauty of "and".

 

[pshn80]

I am hopeful for the owner, distrust like I do all politicians PDA and have a leery feeling about Mullin. Maybe he hasn't committed a human rights violation but PDA IS the GM of the Sacramento Kings and he took part in the hari-kari of this Kings season. Supportive? No, but hopeful if only in the sense that I don't want any more damage done.

Talk to Ranadive.

 

[whozit]

Talk to Ranadive.

Huh? I'm not even his customer unless he gets a couple of cents from my league pass. I'm just a fan.

I am hopeful for Vivek simply because I don't think he likes losing and I'm almost positive he doesn't like his name tarnished. I believe he wants to win and do what it takes to win.

Unfortunately, I think he's over his head in terms of being able to discern basketball knowledge over self-serving crap that I think he might be being fed. Of the other two, I would not be surprised if they each have their own agendas that may not include the other.

 

[fansinceday1]

Cool, now the guys on 1140 are fawning over klay.

 

[pshn80]

Huh? I'm not even his customer unless he gets a couple of cents from my league pass. I'm just a fan.

I am hopeful for Vivek simply because I don't think he likes losing and I'm almost positive he doesn't like his name tarnished. I believe he wants to win and do what it takes to win.

Unfortunately, I think he's over his head in terms of being able to discern basketball knowledge over self-serving crap that I think he might be being fed. Of the other two, I would not be surprised if they each have their own agendas that may not include the other.

I didn't mean for you to talk to him as a paying customer. I mean hitting PDA on and about the head isn't going to help when all this we are dealing with is Ranadive's doing with the aid of his faithful Tonto/Mullin. PDA is not going to make this policy or lack thereof change, it has to be Ranadive.

 

[whozit]

I didn't mean for you to talk to him as a paying customer. I mean hitting PDA on and about the head isn't going to help when all this we are dealing with is Ranadive's doing with the aid of his faithful Tonto/Mullin. PDA is not going to make this policy or lack thereof change, it has to be Ranadive.

I can go along with that. Hopefully Vivek isn't too stubborn and comes to his senses. The ugliness is staring him in the face.

Doesn't mean I won't criticize PDA or voice concern about Mullin. Snakes in the grass they are.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

Somehow I think the early winning was the anomaly here.

I feel like a lot of the hostility that has happened over the last month and a half essentially boils down to whether or not you believe that this sentence is true.

 

[Prince_XY]

PDA is the one who told everyone Nik and Ben are great shooters. They were selected for that season. He also selected Sessions.

That's not PDA's fault? It's his job to know who he is signing and picking and if they fail, that's kinda on the guy who went out and got those players.

I guess what I was trying to say is that some fans were asking for shooters and mistakenly thought PDA failed to sign us some. Ben Mclemore and Nik Stauskas were signed because they were very very good shooters in College, so the complaint of some fans seems like NOT valid. We want shooters, PDA got Ben and Nik.

And again, who would have thought Sessions would be this awefully bad?

 

[Prince_XY]

That PDA's vision is the correct vision is clearly debatable, given our successes and failures this year. Ditto that we "have the right tools" to run. Malone had many individual players playing above their ability using a different style. It's quite possible that Malone actually had the players working in a style that was suited to their strengths, no?

If I am not mistaken we were 11-13 when Malone was fired and in the thread "The Fallacy of Hope" some fans complained that we were better than an 11-13 team with or without Cousins playing and we should have not lost some of the easy/winnable games.

Imagine what could have happened if the team had already mastered to play the faster fast pace offense at the start of the season and could have had augmented our offense (and complemented our awesome defense) when Cousins found it hard to score (against zone defense) and when Cousins was not playing.

Malone could have been here until the end of the season because we could have had won more!

I guess what I am saying is there is nothing wrong with PDA's vision. Maybe the timing of firing Malone was wrong, but there is nothing wrong with wanting to execute a faster pace offense because we have capable players (although some are not ready because of inexeprienced) and ALL very good teams play a faster pace offense from time to time.

 

[rainmaker]

My personal opinion, but I think it's a damn shame and a reflection of the sad state of a perennial loser to have parts of our fan base convincing themselves that our current situation is in any way acceptable because they've started believing we just weren't that good to start the year under Malone, it was basically luck and what we're doing currently under Corbin is us regressing back to our true norm, essentially where we're supposed to be.

That's nonsense. I'd even say it's similar to a disease which has been inflicted on fans of this team who haven't won in so long that when we finally had success and had a good thing going, the winning brand and why we were winning/competitive is almost unrecognizable to them.

And a big, big part of this lies squarely at the feet of our weasel GM who along with Mullin, flew to Vegas with the purpose of convincing Vivek to fire our coach, in the middle of our successful start. Vivek deserves blame too, he hired PDA, brought it Mullin and gave Malone the job out of order but I highly doubt Vivek is intentionally attempting to blow this thing up. I just don't think he knows any better and is getting p*ss poor advice. PDA however has completely overstepped his job description. It's in no way the GM's job to decide whether we should be constantly tweaking our pace/tempo, making decisions on lineups and/or rotations and even worse, weighing in on and impacting the actual system we're running and it's clear as day since the game Corbin took over that our system has been altered, the most glaring change being putting Cuz on the perimeter or in the high-post and having him jack up jumpers or attack off the bounce rather than get in the post and go 1v1 or be in a better position to draw help/doubles, opening it up for everyone else. And the harping on pace from our GM immediately, and it was immediate after the firing, resulted in our pace going up while our defense suffered and also seeing a switch in our lineups/rotation and going small with DWill being the chief benefactor. PDA has a hand in this, maybe Mullin too but it flat out is not their place. You don't coach from or through your FO.

We don't just have an owner and GM who want to redefine the game and how it's played, we have an owner and GM who want to redefine the business/coaching structure of the NBA by essentially having multiple coaches, both Corbin along with those in our FO hiding behind a separate job description/label but wanting to impact decisions on the floor and "play" coach from behind the scenes. The job of a FO and GM is to collect talent and get the best and most fitting talent on a roster, then see what the coach can do with it. We had a coach who looked at our talent, altered his system to fit the talent he was given, then went on to have success. That is exactly what any organization should and would want. Now with the same roster Malone had, we have others attempting to force their views on what our system should be and how the team should be run and it's a complete and utter mess. What that tells me is Malone was the only person of power within our organization who had a clue about what the talent on our roster realistically is and how best to use it.

 

[Prince_XY]

The problem with this team is that the increased pace is looking for those open jump shots early in the shot clock....not necessarily getting to he rim. This team doesn't shoot from the outside well enough. It does get to the foul line if w go back to the original plan with Malone. That fact is a big deal.....you know, getting teams in foul trouble, which doesn't quite fit with the fast pace......can't shoot, terrible plan to increase pace.

Do you have a statistics that says Cousins is getting significantly less touch on the ball inside the paint since Malone was fired?

Anyone?

It would be interesting to know if that has changed significantly and if that is significantly causing the losses under Corbin. My eye test says it is not significantly and Cousins still was able to score although his turn overs seems like have increased.

 

[John Galt]

Cool, now the guys on 1140 are fawning over klay.

I heard that while I was driving and it bummed me out. I like those guys and their show in general. But all the fawning over Klay, along with the serious talk about pro wrestling, and man the world just doesn't make sense to me right now. I'm trying to be a little bit less of a dick on twitter and here... but it isn't easy when I'm just feeling so strongly that everybody has thrown in the towel on the Kings and LEARNED TO LIKE IT - including the front office, the PR girl, the media - everybody is all "don't worry be happy - #chillmuch - don't worry be happy - don't take it seriously dude there is more to life.... etc".

I'm glad I'm not the only one who didn't enjoy watching Klay Thompson humiliate the Kings the other day.

 

[whozit]

I heard that while I was driving and it bummed me out. I like those guys and their show in general. But all the fawning over Klay, along with the serious talk about pro wrestling, and man the world just doesn't make sense to me right now. I'm trying to be a little bit less of a dick on twitter and here... but it isn't easy when I'm just feeling so strongly that everybody has thrown in the towel on the Kings and LEARNED TO LIKE IT - including the front office, the PR girl, the media - everybody is all "don't worry be happy - #chillmuch - don't worry be happy - don't take it seriously dude there is more to life.... etc".

And that is a real danger if fans put that idea into practice. Once people become used to spending their entertainment dollars elsewhere, they may not come back.

 

[VF21]

I heard that while I was driving and it bummed me out. I like those guys and their show in general. But all the fawning over Klay, along with the serious talk about pro wrestling, and man the world just doesn't make sense to me right now. I'm trying to be a little bit less of a dick on twitter and here... but it isn't easy when I'm just feeling so strongly that everybody has thrown in the towel on the Kings and LEARNED TO LIKE IT - including the front office, the PR girl, the media - everybody is all "don't worry be happy - #chillmuch - don't worry be happy - don't take it seriously dude there is more to life.... etc".

I'm glad I'm not the only one who didn't enjoy watching Klay Thompson humiliate the Kings the other day.

Please do not assume that everybody has thrown in the towel.

I am not happy with what's going on with the Kings, but I do know there's more to life (sorry) than continuing to beat a dead horse. And right now, the whole Kings situation is a dead horse. We keep Corbin, we're going to keep losing. The front office has said they're going to keep Corbin through the end of the season, so at this point I am somewhat resigned to not seeing a winning product on the court in the foreseeable future.

Being resigned to the inevitable is not the same as throwing in the towel and learning to like it.

I don't understand why you don't understand that I (speaking only of my perception) can be fed up that the Kings allowed Klay Thompson to basically take practice shots uncontested for the entire 3rd quarter and yet still appreciate (as a fan of the game itself for over 50 years) what Thompson did. It was special and the confidence he had in his shot was poetry. I'm truly sorry if you cannot feel that.