[Grades] Grades v. Klay Thompson 1/23/2015
- Thread starter Bricklayer
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kupman
Starter
That was really embarrassing.
2 things stuck out while watching this game:
1) The whole Malone firing is just a huge distraction from what is really wrong with this team. We are not very talented. Our front court is pretty good, but our backcourt is nowhere near good enough to compete. What you saw last night is what happens when the best back court in the league matches-up with what might be the worst back court in the league. Our bench is also miles and miles away from being good. Malone could not make this better. In fact, he was destroyed by the Warriors as well.
2) If the FO wants to move in the direction of a GSW model, then good for them. Our rivals to the West may be exemplifying a new model of NBA b-ball that kicks a**. They run, shoot and make a lot of 3's all while playing good defense. It seems to be working out pretty well and yes, it is a lot of fun to watch.
2 things stuck out while watching this game:
1) The whole Malone firing is just a huge distraction from what is really wrong with this team. We are not very talented. Our front court is pretty good, but our backcourt is nowhere near good enough to compete. What you saw last night is what happens when the best back court in the league matches-up with what might be the worst back court in the league. Our bench is also miles and miles away from being good. Malone could not make this better. In fact, he was destroyed by the Warriors as well.
2) If the FO wants to move in the direction of a GSW model, then good for them. Our rivals to the West may be exemplifying a new model of NBA b-ball that kicks a**. They run, shoot and make a lot of 3's all while playing good defense. It seems to be working out pretty well and yes, it is a lot of fun to watch.
kingsboi
Hall of Famer
It's good to see that the Kings remain the whipping child of the league, teams setting career highs and even making history versus this team. In other news, I want to continue to see extended minutes for Quincy because at this point we know what we are getting out of Williams, he is a goner after this season anyway, at least I hope...on to the next one!
ParniValjak
All-Star
What was the previous high in points against Kings under Malone this season and last season.
As unconscious as Klay was, I can't help but feel that he doesn't sniff 37 in a game, let alone in a quarter
As unconscious as Klay was, I can't help but feel that he doesn't sniff 37 in a game, let alone in a quarter
Tetsujin
The Game Thread Dude
Which only works when you have three (past or present) all stars manning the guard position (Curry, Thompson, Iggy), one of whom happens to be getting serious MVP consideration, another of whom is probably the best two-way shooting guard in the league right now, and another who is one of the best do-anything/glue players in the league (though he has regressed a bit since signing with the Warriors). Additionally, Harrison Barnes has developed into a solid small forward (with a very good season from beyond the arc) and Draymond Green is probably the closest thing game wise to Ron Artest currently in the league (with the ability to defend the four positions while also being a competent offensive player). It should probably also be noted that their best offensive big man started out the season with an injury and their other big men are either (a) made of glass (Bogut, who despite being a tough guy gets hurt roughly five times a season, and Ezeli) or (b) Marreese Speights. Whilst that Bogut/Green frontline is excellent defensively, it would offensively be the equivalent of a wet dog rolling on your Persian Rug. Meanwhile the Warriors are stacked at the wings and so they have designed an offense to fit their personnel.
The Kings, however, have approximately two NBA-caliber guards on their roster followed by a glut of disappointments and Ramon Sessions. What they do have, however, is the best big man in the NBA, an explosively talented small forward and a legion of serviceable power forwards and small forwards (JT, Landry, Reggie, and Omri are all at the very least roster-able). In other words, our roster is almost the polar opposite of the Warriors roster, which makes the decision to try and play their style a puzzling one to say the least.
Glenn
Hall of Famer
Are we sure there has been a decision to try to mimic the Warriors?
No, but it's always more fun to let your imagination run wild.
Just like it's de rigeur around here to say the PDA wants a "run and gun" offense although he's never said that. He's wanted an offense that brings the ball up quickly, looking first to the wings to see if there's an opportunity while sending Boogie and Rudy to the posts. Then, if the defense doesn't give a shot on the perimeter, get the ball inside and let Boogie/Rudy do their thing. It's not rocket science but it's not run and gun either. Sometimes, though, you just get tired of trying to swim against the stream.
Tetsujin
The Game Thread Dude
BenThePizzaGuy
G-League
People were frothing at the mouth over Thompson
Granted. But that is what PDA envisions... and which some people who were on the bus last night said he talked about again. But he doesn't coach the team; he can only do so much. I'm not making excuses for him but I do think he said kind of the same thing on Dave's show only to have people hear solely what they wanted to hear.
But I don't expect to convince anyone. I just put in my two cents.
BenThePizzaGuy
G-League
Ranadive and Dallesandro have this "pipe dream" in mind to be like the Warriors but you look at the make up of the team, VF21, and the rosters are completely different.
VF21, if Dallesandro was serious about becoming the junior Warriors, it would start with trading Cousins for say Russell Westbrook.
I said absolutely nothing about the "junior Warriors"... but hey, twist however you like.
Why is our GM focusing on offensive sets?
His job is to surround the best players with supporting players that fit. He can say all he wants about not being "run and gun". When you sacrifice wins for pace, exciting, shooting, etc. while seeming to be allergic to bringing in defenders, people are going to assume.
Livinthedream
All-Star
Yes, that's what PDA says. But the roster is not built for that. We all see it, but PDA keeps stressing it as if it's a mindset issue and not a talent issue.
Wing players are your 2 and 3's. If Rudy plays in the post, that eliminates one of the possible wing threats. If your starting 4 is a post player, then you've got a log jam in the post. If your solution is to bring Boogie to the high post, then you've taken the most dominant low post player away from where he's most effective. Starting D-will as a stretch 4 is a waste of time because he can't hit the outside shot consistently. D-will wants to drive to the basket where our post players are already hanging out.
I know the board wants a defensive big man, but it won't work as long as we have Rudy on the team. We need a stretch 4 or we need to trade Rudy for a true perimeter threat at the 3.
PDA should stop talking about a style where we look to shoot the three first and then down to the post second until he changes the roster. (By the way, the Warriors play an outside in philosophy and that's exactly what PDA is preaching)
Kingster
Hall of Famer
Well, I guess it would validate their decision to sign him, so yeah, we'll probably see him signed to a long term contract.
Kingster
Hall of Famer
PDA says ridiculously inane comments such as they need to have pace, but not too much pace. Just enough pace so that it works, not so much that it doesn't work. Well, FREAKING DUGH! The brilliance that has come from this FO never ceases to amaze me. It's in the TRANSLATION of those freaking inane comments that trouble begins. Poor Corbin has to figure out what that dumb-ass rhetoric really means. He can't just pontificate on matters. He has to convert those words into action, somehow. PDA and Vivek are in their ivory tower of theory and the coaches and players are in the trenches getting their butts kicked because they can't figure out how to make the theory work.
Big Cuz 15
All-Star
somewhere mike must be laughing his ass off
Big Cuz 15
All-Star
i love jazz basketball, when its stockton to malone. what the **** is jazz basketball in sac?
You know, if Golden State runs roughshod through their competition in the playoffs and wins it all, I might concede that their way "could" work. Right now, it's the regular season, and nothing has been proven.
Also, as Testu said, it's taken near excellence from their guards in order to pull it off. We have the opposite of that right now. (What's the opposite of excellence? Well, we're consistently inconsistent.)In no way should we be outside-in, given that our strength is inside-out.
PDA really should stay out of X's and O's, and just focus on the Joes. He has no experience in this area. None. Not as a player, not as a coach. He should focus on player acquisition, on continuing to improve overall talent.
Also, as Testu said, it's taken near excellence from their guards in order to pull it off. We have the opposite of that right now. (What's the opposite of excellence? Well, we're consistently inconsistent.)In no way should we be outside-in, given that our strength is inside-out.
PDA really should stay out of X's and O's, and just focus on the Joes. He has no experience in this area. None. Not as a player, not as a coach. He should focus on player acquisition, on continuing to improve overall talent.
King Baller
All-Star
Agreed, PDA is a salary cap guy sprinkled with some agent negotiation ability. Add in a dash of Analytics and you have PDA. No experience as a player or coach on a level that matters in the NBA. Honestly his opinion of how the Kings should play has no more weight than us fans. He is in a position of power though and that is a problem.
As for the GSW and the outside then inside philosophy we will just have to see how the season plays out for them. If they remain healthy they could prove all the traditionalists wrong about what wins in the Playoffs.
Just a side note on Corbin. His solution to Klay going superhuman was to put Ray on him. Ray is listed at 6'3" while Klay is 6'7". Klay just continued to go any where on the floor he pleased and throw it in. IMO he should have put someone as tall or taller on him. Tell the guy to play him tight and make him drive, have the defenders foul him hard if he comes in the paint. Let him set his record for free throws. The Kings are in desperate need of a solid wing defender in the mold of Artest or a healthy Luc Mbah a Moute. It would also help if the Kings had a hard nosed young coach groomed on Detroit Bad Boys basketball
kupman
Starter
I doubt it. He probably remembers 10-29.
The thing is you have Cousins who is arguably the best offensive center in the league and dominates the paint. It would be more efficient to play an inside out game as opposed to getting your wing players the first shot opportunity over Cousins. Why is Cousins the second option when no player can stop him? Doesn't make sense to me.
It's been proven time and time again in the history of basketball that teams that dominate the paint and play defense win championships. You don't need analytics to show that. The Warriors work right now because they have a PG who is probably the best shooter in NBA history with a SG who isn't too far behind.
Agreed, PDA is a salary cap guy sprinkled with some agent negotiation ability. Add in a dash of Analytics and you have PDA. No experience as a player or coach on a level that matters in the NBA. Honestly his opinion of how the Kings should play has no more weight than us fans. He is in a position of power though and that is a problem. As for the GSW and the outside then inside philosophy we will just have to see how the season plays out for them. If they remain healthy they could prove all the traditionalists wrong about what wins in the Playoffs. Just a side note on Corbin. His solution to Klay going superhuman was to put Ray on him. Ray is listed at 6'3" while Klay is 6'7". Klay just continued to go any where on the floor he pleased and throw it in. IMO he should have put someone as tall or taller on him. Tell the guy to play him tight and make him drive, have the defenders foul him hard if he comes in the paint. Let him set his record for free throws. The Kings are in desperate need of a solid wing defender in the mold of Artest or a healthy Luc Mbah a Moute. It would also help if the Kings had a hard nosed young coach groomed on Detroit Bad Boys basketball
Your analysis of what PDA has to offer is my impression, too. I believe Ranadive knew that, too, and hired Mullin as his basketball advisor. That is why I don't go along with laying the basketball problems at PDA's feet - I lay it all at Ranadive's feet with help (?) from Mullin.
Big Cuz 15
All-Star
alot of that due to cousins being out. let's just keep running and jacking up shots all the way to the lottery.
Again and again (and I hope we could be clear about this by now) there has NOT been any article where it says Vivek, PDA, or Mullins ever specifically mentioned they like to play like the Warriors. If there is one please one of those who twisted or started that notion post the exact article where it says they want us to play like the Warriors.
As far as I can remember reading somewhere, they prefer that we play exciting games like the old glorious Kings.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
Its a stupid thing to even try to dig.
That's what its come down to. In order to continue trying to support the insupportable smart people are having to say stupid things and double down on it.
Michael Malone is absolutely guaranteed of another head coaching job, likely next year, because we were jackasses. If he's not laughing all the way to his future bank, its purely because he seemed to be the coach with a real connection to his players. That's a rare thing a little dweeb like PDA might not get. Talk about misplaced arrogance.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
Yes, and unless the fanbase's IQ's have dropped sharply they will recognize a blatant pander when they hear one.
I think they are not running away from putting Cousins as our first option in offense. Even our water boys (or us casual fans) can figure that Cousins is our main offensive weapon that we have to rely on heavily. That is a no-brainer and Vivek/PDA and even Mullins are not stupid to know that. In fact, there was no hesitation on their part to extend Cousins'contract unlike Malone. Vivek/PDA fully knew and committed Cousins as the center piece of this franchise.
It was pointed out in one or two articles that I read and I posted it here too (but apparently some fans refused to read or refused to comprehend for some reasons) that the increased pace is just intended to get more opportunities for easy baskets. And if that intended opportunity to score does not come (which we oftenly see) then we rely on Cousins or Gay on half-court sets. The beauty about it is that according to our best statistician and basketball wiz in this board, Cousins still has about 80% chance of the time to do his thing even when we play this way.
Another thing, we've seen how difficult it is to score when the other team is able to shut down the paint and make it difficult for the Kings to make an offense when the other team goes zone defense. Actually, if you can remember we hated seeing that boring iso-heavy plays we've seen being played for the past few years and it really did not translate to more wins. Hopefully, this fast paced offense can augment or complement our half-court sets that relies heavily on iso plays.
I will try to post the exact article where Cousins fully agrees with the plan and in fact even said it will help the team. There is also an article where coach Corbin explained how the fast pace is supposed to be opportunistic and it clearly is not the type of "run and gun" type of fast pace offense where in we are going to stay away from using Cousins/Gay in half-court sets.
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I can see only a few reasons why Collison, Sessions, McCallum, McLemore, Stauskas, DWill, Casspi, or even the athletic Gay cannot do that fast pace offense when they are completely healthy. These guys can all run fast if they want to run and move fast.
One issue is commitment. If the players are lazy and just want to cruise/coast, then it cannot ever be implemented the right way.
Another issue is inexperience. McCallum and McLemore (an athletic player with blazing speed) are only on their sophomore year and Stauskas is a rookie. Actually and just a side note, some fans are saying PDA failed to get us shooters. But guess what? Aren't McLemore and Stauskas suppose to be good shooters?
And who would have thought that Sessions will play slow motion and this poorly?
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