Grades v. Jazz 01/25

[VF21]

Ron Artest is the classic tragic figure. People like him can be found in Greek tragedies dating back thousands of years. No one is saying Ron doesn't try and doesn't want to win. That's not the problem. The problem is that the huge cloud hanging over him is blocking the sun ... and it's getting bigger.

Ron isn't lots of players. He has more baggage than Samsonite. For that reason, if nothing else, he needs to quit drawing attention to himself with things like taunting the crowds. That puts the target on his back and the officials invariably react accordingly.

The most tragic part about Ron is he is one helluva basketball player, especially if you're talking about heart and desire. BUT he has that fatal flaw and sooner or later it will manifest itself again and we'll be trying to figure out what hit us and why we didn't see it coming...

Piling on? I guess it might seem that way but this is our Kings we're talking about. I feel sorry for Ron because he has been the focus of way too much attention, he's sometimes treated unfairly because of his reputation and from what I've heard he's a nice guy with a good heart - and some questionable decision-making abilities. But he's still a huge potential problem just waiting to happen - and I reluctantly accepted that a while back. It's not personal. None of us really know Ron Artest ... but we do know the TruWarier and for a lot of us his price tag has just become too expensive.

 

[Bibby_10]

It's one of those where, like Fat Lever said afterwards, if you're winning and playing well, then acting like an a-hole isn't so awful. But when you're playing poorly, you have no reason to brag.

The whole thing was embarassing. If I'd been Reggie, I would have dragged him off the court by his shirt and told him to watch the rest of the game.

15 points on 5 for 12 shooting.
8 rebounds
1 TO
1 Steal.

Not a great game but I wouldn't call it playing poorly. In Ron's defense these are the same fans that booed Derek Fisher last time the Lakers were in town.

 

[Circa_1985_Fan]

Not a great game but I wouldn't call it playing poorly. In Ron's defense these are the same fans that booed Derek Fisher last time the Lakers were in town.

Indeed...and it cant be forgotten that Matt Harpring is the biggest in-game prick this side of Robert Horry, and he always has been...so him instigating Ron to the point of intense annoyance and frustration shouldnt be ignored, either. I dont blame Ron one bit, because if it's any other player doing that, I dont think it gets at him like it did, but since it was Matt Harpring, it did.

 

[LA King Fan II]

Ronny is ready to throw a punch. Might be in a game or in the locker room or on a plane or at a bar or hopefully at a mirror...but he is ready.

Should have taken the Knicks 1st rounder if that was ever a possibility. He is Dennis Rodman with less ability and possibly less smarts. Nobody wants him now. Actually I've always thought he was more of a Mike Tyson.

Wow, amazing the Kings management didn't do enough to cut its losses and manufacture at least something. The impotence is amazing, and waiting through another actionless trade deadline is gonna be down right boring this time around. Amazing stupidity.

 

[=LarryLegend=]

Anybody kind of impressed Kmart got pissed about matts moving screen? since Kmart has been here he hasnt got heated like that!! I like it.

 

[kupman]

I am officially irritated with Ron. The Kings having been learning to play better with each other and have made noticeable progress since the start of the season. However, I think Ron has become impatient and is thinking "who cares at this point, we aren't making the playoffs and I am outta here this summer."

If he does not have anything constructive play for, he is much less likely to inhibit his destructive tendencies. That's my theory of what is going on anyway.

 

[CruzDude]

Kinda reminds me of the movie "Impact", the big comet coming towards earth (RonRon), people start to panic (fans), father and long lost daughter reunite on the beach in front of the tidal wave (Petrie and Vlade), and the kid on the motor bike (KMart) with his girlfriend drive madly to the mountain to live thru the resulting tidal wave and start all over again as the tidal wave reveberates around the world (NBA).

My view is becoming that not even getting equal value for a RonRon trade is better than where we are now and appear to be going with him. At least a good defender with banging size and a 1st rounder and a bag of chips and a beer. But staying status quo doesn't appear to be getting the Kings anywhere.

 

[John Galt]

This thread feels like a pendulum swinging way too far the other way... an overcorrection.

I can't imagine a GM wanted Ron Artest Friday morning but doesn't want him after the Jazz game. THAT would have to be one nutty GM. Ron is still exactly what he is. I've seen other players with antics to equal Ron's... very popular players... in fact the most popular player.

Just Ron being Ron and I don't understand the level of this fan freakout... his on court behavior over the past two years has been as good as anybody's. He got a little amped up on the Detroit/Indy trip, probably started getting playoff delusions of grandeur (as many on this board did too), and the snap back to reality was a hard adjustment.

He will be fine.

 

[Bricklayer]

Indeed...and it cant be forgotten that Matt Harpring is the biggest in-game prick this side of Robert Horry, and he always has been...so him instigating Ron to the point of intense annoyance and frustration shouldnt be ignored, either. I dont blame Ron one bit, because if it's any other player doing that, I dont think it gets at him like it did, but since it was Matt Harpring, it did.

Oh horse manure -- Matt Harpring was not the problem. Ron was already yelling at the crowd BEFORE Harpring entered the game. Ron was just spoiling for a fight, and Harpring of course isn't going to back down to anybody. Trying to paint this as Ron Aretst somehow getting thugged by Harpring is kind of comical.

 

[Bricklayer]

Just Ron being Ron and I don't understand the level of this fan freakout...

Not going to go as far as some on this point, but Ron being Ron is the exact fear -- that is disaster. Because what we saw last night was Ron from 2002 or 2003. Out of control self-absorbed agitator getting worked up right to the edge of losing it.

 

[Kingster]

Anybody kind of impressed Kmart got pissed about matts moving screen? since Kmart has been here he hasnt got heated like that!! I like it.

I liked it very, VERY much. He got more aggressive, rather than less after getting beat on by Harpring. That was the best part of the whole game for me.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

... Of course the kicker was when Sloan inserted Matt Harping into the game. Harpring is one of the league's truest tough guys. Lot of guys talk the talk or woof, or pose. Harping doesn't bother with any oif that, he just is. Backs down from nobody, and if you want to bang, he's always ready and willing. Well....Ron was ready, Matt was willing, and so it started. And between the brahma bull matchup, and Ron's constant howling at the crowd and the crowd's howling back the other way...the end result was inevitable...

You know, watching Artest carrying on last night, I could practically visualize this conversation going on last night on the Utah bench:

:: Coach Sloan watching Artest carrying on on the court ::

:: Sloan looks down his bench ::


Sloan: "Matt!"

Harpring: "Yeah, Coach?"

Sloan: "Shut him up."

Harpring: "Got it, Coach."

 

[Warhawk]

You know, watching Artest carrying on last night, I could practically visualize this conversation going on last night on the Utah bench:

I wouldn't doubt it at all....

 

[Heuge]

You know, watching Artest carrying on last night, I could practically visualize this conversation going on last night on the Utah bench:

Somehow I don't think the conversation was that clean.

 

[Glenn]

Does anyone know the state of his daughter's health? He is facing a parent's biggest fear. I will grant that nothing happened that might not have been predicted but let us factor in that his daughter may die.

I suspect no parent would handle this with much grace and we all blow up in the way we have available or that is consistent with our personality.

No one thought of that factor?

 

[VF21]

Does anyone know the state of his daughter's health? He is facing a parent's biggest fear. I will grant that nothing happened that might not have been predicted but let us factor in that his daughter may die.

I suspect no parent would handle this with much grace and we all blow up in the way we have available or that is consistent with our personality.

No one thought of that factor?

I have to totally and completely disagree. This isn't a new facet of Artest's personality. Ask any Indiana Pacers fan. Artest feeding into the hatred of the crowd isn't new and I cannot imagine it being triggered by anything other than Artest simply being Artest.

I'm not going to make excuses for him, especially by bringing in an ill child. There's absolutely NO WAY any of us can talk with even a hint of an idea about how that's going.

If it were true that his daughter had taken a turn for the worse, however, I strongly suspect it would be all over the news. Things like that get out.

Ron Artest is being Ron Artestlike. I don't think he intends to be a disruption; but it happens all the same.

Factoring in "that his daughter might die" is inappropriate for a message board discussion, IMHO.

 

[Glenn]

I have to totally and completely disagree. This isn't a new facet of Artest's personality. Ask any Indiana Pacers fan. Artest feeding into the hatred of the crowd isn't new and I cannot imagine it being triggered by anything other than Artest simply being Artest.

I'm not going to make excuses for him, especially by bringing in an ill child. There's absolutely NO WAY any of us can talk with even a hint of an idea about how that's going.

If it were true that his daughter had taken a turn for the worse, however, I strongly suspect it would be all over the news. Things like that get out.

Ron Artest is being Ron Artestlike. I don't think he intends to be a disruption; but it happens all the same.

Factoring in "that his daughter might die" is inappropriate for a message board discussion, IMHO.

What can you disagree with? I didn't say it was new and in fact said it was consistent with his personality. I also said a guy/or gal responds in the way that is characteristic of his personality. In Ron's case he goes off. I didn't say it was good. I didn't say it was acceptable. I'm not making excuses for him.

Give me a break. How can you say "there's absolutely NO WAY any of us can talk with even a hint of an idea about how that's going" yet blow it off as if it has no impact. How do you know?

There IS a side where I have some compassion.

 

[VF21]

What can you disagree with? I didn't state an opinion. I didn't say it was new and in fact said it was consistent with his personality. I also said a guy/or gal responds in the way that is characteristic of his personality. In Ron's case he goes off. I didn't say it was good. I didn't say it was acceptable. I'm not making excuses for him.

Give me a break.

There IS a side where I have some compassion.

Um, okay...

And after you decide he's acting out because of the potential for family tragedy, the discussion is pretty much over, isn't it?

I made NO MENTION whatsoever of your compassion or lack thereof. I was actually attempting to point out the vast number of people on this board who are NOT qualified to even participate in a clinical discussion of Artest's mental state. But we can discuss what we see based on what we've seen in the past...and express our concerns over what we think it might lead to.

EDIT: And what I was primarily disagreeing with was the "let us factor in that his daughter might die." At this point, his daughter is facing an uphill battle but there are, in fact, a number of medical alternatives available should the current path not be successful. I don't think anyone has come out and indicated her condition now is any worse than it has been. But we have no way to know so to factor in something that we really cannot accurately discuss just seems useless.

 

[Glenn]

I haven't decided anything. I put together an escalation of Ron's behavior over the last 5 games as indicated by Bricklayer and the TMZ.com film. Perhaps something is changing and perhaps not. It SEEMS like something is changing and perhaps it is time for Ron to take an absence from the team.

This tick ... tick ....tick... characterization is new in that it is an escalation of concern that he will blow up. What has changed? Why is HE escalating?

 

[kupman]

I will have to agree with Glenn on this one, but I realize that it is a sensitive topic. I had actually forgotten about his daughter's health. People who have evidenced instability in the past are most likely to show instability again when facing stress. His daughter's health, his mediocre team and likelihood of relocating this summer is all pretty stressful. I am not making excuses for him, but I do think that Glenn brings up a very valid point.

 

[Circa_1985_Fan]

Ronny is ready to throw a punch. Might be in a game or in the locker room or on a plane or at a bar or hopefully at a mirror...but he is ready.

Wow...um...have you, or anyone else talked to Ron personally and found this out?

 

[Circa_1985_Fan]

I will have to agree with Glenn on this one, but I realize that it is a sensitive topic. I had actually forgotten about his daughter's health. People who have evidenced instability in the past are most likely to show instability again when facing stress. His daughter's health, his mediocre team and likelihood of relocating this summer is all pretty stressful. I am not making excuses for him, but I do think that Glenn brings up a very valid point.

Indeed...and I couldnt agree more with the both of you. Do I think Ron is this 'ticking timebomb' that's ready to blow up out of control at the next moment's notice? No, and the people that ARE waiting for it...will probably be extremely disappointed in the end because I dont see it happening...at least now, while he's here. Am I a Ron Artest apologist? No, I'll call a spade a spade, but I'm not going to believe that he's the same person both on and off the court he was 3 long years ago in the life of Ron Artest. Before everyone goes and jumps off the Golden Gate Bridge together in this idea, you might want to make sure you have a parachute in case you decide against it in disappointment after the season's over.

 

[VF21]

Do I think Ron is this 'ticking timebomb' that's ready to blow up out of control at the next moment's notice? No, and the people that ARE waiting for it...will probably be extremely disappointed in the end because I dont see it happening...at least now, while he's here.

That's unfair, Circa. I am really afraid it's going to happen but to insinuate that I WANT it to happen and will be disappointed if it doesn't is just wrong.

 

[VF21]

I will have to agree with Glenn on this one, but I realize that it is a sensitive topic. I had actually forgotten about his daughter's health. People who have evidenced instability in the past are most likely to show instability again when facing stress. His daughter's health, his mediocre team and likelihood of relocating this summer is all pretty stressful. I am not making excuses for him, but I do think that Glenn brings up a very valid point.

The point is that REGARDLESS of why, Artest is again exhibiting the types of actions that led to all the problems before. And quite frankly if people aren't worried about it they haven't been paying attention.