Grades v. Hornets 11/29/09

So, same vein as last time: When Kevin comes back, what do you do with Sergio?

  • Beno backs up Reke (12min), Sergio out of rotation

    Votes: 8 9.2%
  • Sergio backs up Reke (12min), Beno out of rotation

    Votes: 1 1.1%
  • Beno backs up Kevin (12min), Sergio backs up Reke (12min), no Donte/Casspi SG min

    Votes: 30 34.5%
  • Trade Beno, Sergio backs up Reke

    Votes: 20 23.0%
  • Trade Kevin, Beno (or Donte) starts at SG, Sergio backs up Reke

    Votes: 28 32.2%

  • Total voters
    87
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Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#31
Martin is going to help a lot. You saw tonight that the Hornets jammed up the middle to stop Tyreke and they decided to let other players beat them. We have some adequate shooters right now but they aren't sharpshooters. With Kevin back (and even Francisco) it's going to open up the middle a lot because they can't let Kevin spot up uncontested on the wings.

We scored 112pts, shot 54% from the field and 50% form 3pt land. The Hornets didn't jam up the middle because we weren't scorching them. They jammed up the middle because they decided they would take their chances just so long as they prevented Tyreke from dominating the game.
 
#32
Don't forget Sergio is only 23. Although is not a rookie, he has a lot of years to become better and better, the only thing he needs is more confidence and PT. You know what he is capable of right now. I think is a waste of talent keeping him on the bench and let him come back to Europe at the end of the season. Of course I am biased as a spanish fan, but I'd like to see what he could do if plays 20 minutes regularly.
 
#34
Beno still gets beat defensively MOST of the time. Watching him on the defensive end last night and he just can't stay in front of his man. He's got the two slowest feet in the NBA at point guard. I'm inclined to go with the "trade Beno" crowd. Just not seeing improvement in his "D" and he doesn't have it to improve.
Noc has to go too. Donte is a freak and has to get more minutes. The matchup problems he creates can win some games.
 

CruzDude

Senior Member sharing a brew with bajaden
#35
Brick

Re. your grades:

3 C's, a B and 1 A? for a 15 pt win? How do you rationalize that? Or have you forgotten about Sergio, Casspi, et al?
 

Kingster

Hall of Famer
#36
I agree with A- on Greene. It's interesting that a guy who gets A- is getting relatively little playing time.

I'm not buying into the "matchup" theory on Donte. Doesn't make sense. Sure, he's not going to match up as a 2 guard in many cases, but it begs the question: why not play him more at the 3 or the 4? Is Casspi better than Donte? Even Thompson is not better than Donte in many matchup situations. I really like Casspi, but I think Donte is better, if only because of his defense and offensive rebounding. Should Kenny Thomas be played over Donte at the 4? So why not more Donte? My best guess: Westphal wants to distribute the minutes as much for getting everyone involved as a team as he does for the matchup. He is also sacrificing some Donte minutes for the sake of developing Casspi and Thompson.
 
A

AriesMar27

Guest
#37
Brick

Re. your grades:

3 C's, a B and 1 A? for a 15 pt win? How do you rationalize that? Or have you forgotten about Sergio, Casspi, et al?
ya know... how does udoka get a (inc) but sergio or brockman dont even get a grade?:eek::confused::rolleyes:
 
#38
Beno still gets beat defensively MOST of the time. Watching him on the defensive end last night and he just can't stay in front of his man. He's got the two slowest feet in the NBA at point guard. I'm inclined to go with the "trade Beno" crowd. Just not seeing improvement in his "D" and he doesn't have it to improve.
Noc has to go too. Donte is a freak and has to get more minutes. The matchup problems he creates can win some games.
Sometimes, I have to watch the games twice just to see who among the players are putting honest effort to defend. And I have to agree with you that Beno had always been terrible in defense. Most of the time he looks like he was just pretending to defend, or worse - he really was trying, but was just sucking on defense. Of course it would be hard to notice, since all we care about was Beno's excellent offense of late.

Although Beno had been excellent lately on offense, I think comes playoff time we really cannot count on him. So, I voted for trading him NOW, while he still looks deceivingly good like Martin. Good in offense, but can never be relied upon to give top notch defense when it counts. Same rationale for considering the trading of the softy Hawes. These players are misfits if we want to be a tougher playoff team in the future.
 
#39
Another option:

Trade Kevin, move Reke to the 2, Start Beno at the point and have Sergio back him up. Kevin along with Nocioni might be able to score us something really good up front.
Just for the record, that's what my "trade Kevin" vote in this poll indicates. I think that makes much more sense than, for example, playing Donte at SG.
 

SLAB

Hall of Famer
#40
I must say I am really nervous about Kevin eventually returning...He is a darn good scorer but would he make this team as it is playing any better? Will he allow all the ball movement to continue? I say trade if the price is right. Preferably for a big.


Another one I would trade without hesitation is Nocioni when Cisco is ready to come back. I for one am thoroughly PSYCHED to see what Cisco can do with a real coach and determined teammates. His fire on the court with some of these guys would be pure gold to see. Again I like Noc, but I would rather the minutes be between Cisco/Casspi/Greene than with Noc taking younger's minutes.
 
#41
I must say I am really nervous about Kevin eventually returning...He is a darn good scorer but would he make this team as it is playing any better? Will he allow all the ball movement to continue? I say trade if the price is right. Preferably for a big.


Another one I would trade without hesitation is Nocioni when Cisco is ready to come back. I for one am thoroughly PSYCHED to see what Cisco can do with a real coach and determined teammates. His fire on the court with some of these guys would be pure gold to see. Again I like Noc, but I would rather the minutes be between Cisco/Casspi/Greene than with Noc taking younger's minutes.

This team is struggling with 2 things that Martin does best, getting to the line and 3 point shooting. I can't wait to see how this team plays when he gets back.
 
#43
This team is struggling with 2 things that Martin does best, getting to the line and 3 point shooting. I can't wait to see how this team plays when he gets back.
I disagree with the getting to the line thing. If Kevin gets to the line more, the rest of the guys get less shots. The offense may be more stagnant. The only good thing is the opponents pick up fouls.
 

rainmaker

Hall of Famer
#44
This team is struggling with 2 things that Martin does best, getting to the line and 3 point shooting. I can't wait to see how this team plays when he gets back.
Completely agree. I actually think having Kev in there will make things easier on everyone else, especially Tyreke. Kevins game in a complimentary type of game, and Westphal is a genius of an offensive coach. I think we can make it work.

IMO, two things can happen when Kev returns. One, it will take a few weeks to get back in the flow and regain his timing, and then this team really starts rolling and makes a run at the playoffs. In which case, everyone loves Kevin as a complimentary piece.

Or two, he never really gets in a rythm and disrupts the offense. We never get on a role, and everyone wants Kevin gone. I could see either happening, but I think it is much more likely everything works out. Especially if we get a big at the deadline. But really, its just wait and see, and thats why I'm not jumping to any conclusions.
 

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#45
This team is struggling with 2 things that Martin does best, getting to the line and 3 point shooting. I can't wait to see how this team plays when he gets back.

The team shot 50% from the 3pt line last night and we're 5th in the whole damn league in 3pt% (adn 5th in scoring too). Beno, Omri, Sergio and Donte are all shooting 43%-47%. How is that struggling?
 
#46
I disagree with the getting to the line thing. If Kevin gets to the line more, the rest of the guys get less shots. The offense may be more stagnant. The only good thing is the opponents pick up fouls.
The good thing about Kevin getting to the line is that we have an 80+% chance of converting instead of under-50%.
 
#47
This team is struggling with 2 things that Martin does best, getting to the line and 3 point shooting. I can't wait to see how this team plays when he gets back.
Three point shooting? At .384, we're 5th most accurate in the NBA, and at 6.9 per game we're 10th for total number of 3s hit. We also get 26.4 FT attempts per game, tied for 6th-7th in the NBA. At 74.9% FT shooting, we're 16th in the NBA, which is the only place in those categories (3s, FT) where we're even a tiny bit below average. So while I'm sure that we'll all welcome whatever improvements we can get, I think that "struggling" might be a little too strong of a word.
 
#48
No, I believe he said Martin/Nocioni for something good. Tracy McGrady is NOT what a rebuilding team needs and, quite frankly, he's so injury-prone anyway he'd probably trip on the tarmac at Sac. International and suffer a career-ending mishap as he got off the plane

So the headline would read. "TMAC on the TARMAC at SAC. Re-injures BAD BACK Out for rest of the season":p. And the Kings magic continues!
 
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Warhawk

Give blood and save a life!
Staff member
#49
This team is struggling with 2 things that Martin does best, getting to the line and 3 point shooting. I can't wait to see how this team plays when he gets back.
The thing we are struggling with most is defense. And Kevin ain't gonna help much there....
 
#50
The team shot 50% from the 3pt line last night and we're 5th in the whole damn league in 3pt% (adn 5th in scoring too). Beno, Omri, Sergio and Donte are all shooting 43%-47%. How is that struggling?
They have recently started hitting shots. Majority of our losses this season have a lot to with poor 3 point shooting. Not as serious a problem as TO's but still a problem nonetheless.

5 of our 8 losses have been 35% or less from beyond the arc:
OKC 18.8% 3-16
NOH 29.2% 7-24
SAS 35.3% 6-17
ATL 33.3% 5-15
CHI 19.0% 6-24
 
#51
They have recently started hitting shots. Majority of our losses this season have a lot to with poor 3 point shooting. Not as serious a problem as TO's but still a problem nonetheless.

5 of our 8 losses have been 35% or less from beyond the arc:
OKC 18.8% 3-16
NOH 29.2% 7-24
SAS 35.3% 6-17
ATL 33.3% 5-15
CHI 19.0% 6-24
But Martin was in 4 of those 5 games...

So we actually shoot better with him off the floor.
 
#52
They have recently started hitting shots. Majority of our losses this season have a lot to with poor 3 point shooting. Not as serious a problem as TO's but still a problem nonetheless.

5 of our 8 losses have been 35% or less from beyond the arc:
OKC 18.8% 3-16
NOH 29.2% 7-24
SAS 35.3% 6-17
ATL 33.3% 5-15
CHI 19.0% 6-24
In that case we'd be better off with a spot 3 pt shooter. Kevin isn't gonna stand around at the perimeter waiting for an open 3 (well he does do that but he shouldn't be). We'd be better off with the likes of redick, current peja, a douby that shoots like how hes supposed to ... etc.
 

Capt. Factorial

trifolium contra tempestatem subrigere certum est
Staff member
#53
In that case we'd be better off with a spot 3 pt shooter. Kevin isn't gonna stand around at the perimeter waiting for an open 3 (well he does do that but he shouldn't be). We'd be better off with the likes of redick, current peja, a douby that shoots like how hes supposed to ... etc.
"Forget this Kevin Martin guy. The guy we really need is J.J. Redick!" :eek:
 

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#56
I don't know the NBA trading rules well.
How realistic would be a trade Kevin Martin to Portland an Rudy Fernandez + rights on Joel Freeland to the Kings?
Normally you have to roughly match salaries (come within 25%) in a trade unless you are under the salary cap. I'm pretty sure Portland is over it, so no way they could take Kevin's $11mil salary for Rudy's $2mil (or whatever). Other players would have to be thrown in by the Blazers to make things add up salarywise (not to mention talentwise -- I like Rudy, but Kevin is in a whole different zip code.

There is a site called realgm.com which has a trade checker built in where you can test out any trade between any team(s). There's another called hoopshype.com which has a team by team salary section.
 
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#57
If it is not possible then there is nothing to take about. But talent-wise I don't agree with you.
Rudy still didn't prove himself at the NBA but nevertheless I really believe he that if he is used to his full strength Rudy can be one of the best SG. He is a very versatile player, doing so many things on the court.
But the way Portland uses Rudy, as a shooter, they better have Martin.

Other reasons why it could be a good deal for the kings:
- Rudy's contract is much better.
- And Rudy+Sergio is like 1+1=5.
- Rights on Freeland. He can be a solid center and that is what the Kings need.
 
#58
Hey everyone! Lets trade our 30ppg scorer for our 3rd string point guards best friend!

If anything, you tade Noc to make room for the returning players. Maybe Noc and Spence for some package netting us Serge Ibaka or Pops Mensah-Bonsu or Nathan Jawai.
 
A

AriesMar27

Guest
#59
Hey everyone! Lets trade our 30ppg scorer for our 3rd string point guards best friend!

If anything, you tade Noc to make room for the returning players. Maybe Noc and Spence for some package netting us Serge Ibaka or Pops Mensah-Bonsu or Nathan Jawai.
makes sense to me, he is our best pg... even if he is 3rd string for some unknown reason...:cool:
 
#60
"Forget this Kevin Martin guy. The guy we really need is J.J. Redick!" :eek:

Don't forget Douby was mentioned in there.:confused:


The thing we are struggling with most is defense. And Kevin ain't gonna help much there....

You want to address the defense, look to your boy Spencer Hawes. He's the problem. Kevin Worked on his defense this off season and was actually trying out there in his 5 games this year. Spencer has pretty much been embarrassed every game this year on the defensive end.
 
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