They can't. Thus the problem with the "My eyes tell me so screw stats!" logic.
Sure, he has a lot of advantages. Playing with CP3. Playing with the NBA darling Clippers. But 23 PPG-10 RPG on 56% shooting doesn't happen to everyone.
[Grades] Grades v. Clippers 11/23/2013
- Thread starter Bricklayer
- Start date
They can't. Thus the problem with the "My eyes tell me so screw stats!" logic.
Sure, he has a lot of advantages. Playing with CP3. Playing with the NBA darling Clippers. But 23 PPG-10 RPG on 56% shooting doesn't happen to everyone.
It depends on what they qualify as iso post ups and how much his point per possession is inflated by his superstar calls. It also brings into question what is post play, as LMA has a higher points per play, but his entire game is turnarounds and face-ups. LMA isn't a low post player either. He's got an unguardable fade-away, but that wouldn't qualify him as a great post player in my book. Hakeem had an unguardable fade-away, but what made him one of the greatest post players was his fakes, up and unders, and smoothness underneath.
HereWeBoogie
Hall of Famer
lmao. and the stats > everything logic is just hilarious.
Isaiah Thomas is top 5 in the league in scoring right now per 100 possessions along with DMC, LeBron, Paul George, and Kevin Durant. is Isaiah Thomas really a top 5 scorer in the entire NBA????? stats don't always mean everything guys.
watch Blake Griffins next 5 games and tell me he is a legitimately good post up player
randymoss1881
Starter
Griffin can't score on Wes Johnson in the post. He has to be feed that's why the clippers will always be a 2nd round playoff team
If that article argued that Blake shouldn't try to develop a typical post game because it wastes his talents then I'd agree. I don't feel Dwight Howard should try to be Hakeem in the post. Howard is explosive. He should use that to score. He's strong and he should try to back guys down when he can, but he can also explode and that's why he's deadly in pick n rolls. I feel the same about Griffin. Blake has some small forward skills. He's explosive. That is how he should develop his game. Instead, the article is "here's a stat so Blake is good in the post." That's weak and it's dumb. Sorry. The issue for the Clips is that Blake has not become a reliable second scorer. Blake has become a much better passer, but that's not entirely what the Clippers need to be a contender. He and the entire team is entirely depending upon CP3. Crawford is the guy that takes the offensive pressure off Paul, not Blake. The Clippers are still missing someone to get buckets for them other than Paul. Like I said, its Crawford when he's hot, but its nobody when he's not.
chief bromden
Starter
I really enjoyed watching this game in the second half, especially the chippy play. Cousins is going to be unstoppable by the end of this year, his game has improved so much. Patterson hitting jumpers in the second half, and even getting some tough buckets down low was great to see. His confidence should grow from this game. Mbah D'ing it up, love it. Hope the same intensity is there tomorrow, go Kings. Enjoyed IT's play too, he barked about something Jordan was doing at the foul line on a couple different occasions, entering too early or something.
Blake Griffin has got to be the biggest wussy on the planet - his game is so gimmicky, hope Cousins holds a grudge against him the rest of his career and punishes him with buckets for years to come.
Blake Griffin has got to be the biggest wussy on the planet - his game is so gimmicky, hope Cousins holds a grudge against him the rest of his career and punishes him with buckets for years to come.
HereWeBoogie
Hall of Famer
Chicken Chaser
Bench
What if the new era Kings's rivalry is with LA Clippers instead of the LA Lakers? Imagine us facing them in the playoffs in the coming years! :O
HighFlyingMonkey
Starter
This is the team we were expecting at the beginning of the season. Today we played well enough to win but Chris Flail unfortunately hit some huge shots and got the benefit of the whistle several times.
Demarcus is learning how to deal with double teams at a scary rate. Its freakish how fast he picks up concepts sometimes.
Still waiting for a credible argument this team is better with Vasquez at the point as opposed to Isaiah. IT floor generaled an excellent game today. Vasquez didn't play in the second and fourth quarters, says a lot more about IT since Greivis wasn't terrible today.
Glad to see PPat get his jumper going. He can be an effective bench 4 if he continues playing with that kind of effort.
Ben is terribly inconsistent defensively. We went with Salmons as the SG down the stretch for stabiliy, the right move IMO. Ben is still learning. Give him a year or two of seasoning and he's going to be solid.
And Mbah a Moute, incredible effort defensively. He's plugging the hole left in my heart when Toney Douglas wasn't resigned. He guarded everyone this game; Paul, Griffin, Reddick, Crawford. Just absurd defensive versatility. And also really intelligent on offense, taking good shots, making good passes, and making smart cuts off the ball.
Feel that? Its the winds of culture change. Although tomorrow will say more about this team than today did.
Demarcus is learning how to deal with double teams at a scary rate. Its freakish how fast he picks up concepts sometimes.
Still waiting for a credible argument this team is better with Vasquez at the point as opposed to Isaiah. IT floor generaled an excellent game today. Vasquez didn't play in the second and fourth quarters, says a lot more about IT since Greivis wasn't terrible today.
Glad to see PPat get his jumper going. He can be an effective bench 4 if he continues playing with that kind of effort.
Ben is terribly inconsistent defensively. We went with Salmons as the SG down the stretch for stabiliy, the right move IMO. Ben is still learning. Give him a year or two of seasoning and he's going to be solid.
And Mbah a Moute, incredible effort defensively. He's plugging the hole left in my heart when Toney Douglas wasn't resigned. He guarded everyone this game; Paul, Griffin, Reddick, Crawford. Just absurd defensive versatility. And also really intelligent on offense, taking good shots, making good passes, and making smart cuts off the ball.
Feel that? Its the winds of culture change. Although tomorrow will say more about this team than today did.
Of course not. But Even the most rabid NBA fans will watch somewhere between 120-130 games a year. If that. Are you saying you can make a judgement on every NBA player while seeing them play a few times a year?
The best way to judge someone is through a combination of both. Stats should reafirm what you see on the court. And vice versa.
and as with anytyhing, take what IT is doing in context. Right now, he's absoultely one of the best scorers in the NBA. But with only 12 games of sample, there's not even close to enough to make any rash determination like him being one of the best scorers in the game. The rest of the guys have years and years of data to support them being called top 5 scorers.
jcwkings
All-Star
I know we need shooting from one of Jimmer/Thornton, but defensively we look so much better when the second unit is IT/Salmons/Oultaw/Patterson and either JT or Cuz. We got back into this game because those units were dialed in on defense, we will never beat the top teams with Jimmer and Thornton hitting one or two threes while being huge liabilities on defense.
I think today showed what Malone could do with a set of players that are dialed in defensively(we would have never seen that with Smart or any coach before that). We have the right coach, just need the right players and time now.
Also I hate how much our own fans discredit Isaiah because he's a "short chucker" according to them. Really how often do opponents take advantage of his height? Yes he's short but is as strong as a bull and has the competitive spirit that very few in the league do. He's one of the quickest guards in the league thats a great outside shooter, that in the modern NBA is deadly. Thats not even mentioning the leadership and intagibles he brings, all the best starting PG's in the modern NBA are attack/scoring guards. CP3 would be the most "old school" PG left, but even he is a great scorer. Isaiah is a starting PG in this league, its time for all the haters to start giving him his credit. For the second time this season CP3 has gone out of his way in a post game interview to give props to Isaiah, I would trust his view over some guys on their computers looking at stats, PER and all that bull bird.
I think today showed what Malone could do with a set of players that are dialed in defensively(we would have never seen that with Smart or any coach before that). We have the right coach, just need the right players and time now.
Also I hate how much our own fans discredit Isaiah because he's a "short chucker" according to them. Really how often do opponents take advantage of his height? Yes he's short but is as strong as a bull and has the competitive spirit that very few in the league do. He's one of the quickest guards in the league thats a great outside shooter, that in the modern NBA is deadly. Thats not even mentioning the leadership and intagibles he brings, all the best starting PG's in the modern NBA are attack/scoring guards. CP3 would be the most "old school" PG left, but even he is a great scorer. Isaiah is a starting PG in this league, its time for all the haters to start giving him his credit. For the second time this season CP3 has gone out of his way in a post game interview to give props to Isaiah, I would trust his view over some guys on their computers looking at stats, PER and all that bull bird.
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K
KingMilz
Guest
I really hope we bring this kind of energy 2morro against the Lakers, I'm hoping Outlaw is not suspended either he should have been doing flagrant's last year when we didn't use him right not now when you actually need him.
Kingster
Hall of Famer
The whole was better than the sum of its parts. Yes, there were some very good individual performances. But what caught my eye was the poise when they were down 20, the fight to come back, the intelligence they showed (sans the Outlaw play), and the cohesive teamwork they displayed down the stretch. If you ever want to be happy with a loss, this was it. Malone and his staff should be proud.
As for individual performances....It sure is nice to finally see a Patterson sighting. What'yaknow. He really can play the game. Cousins was outstanding on the boards and abusing the Clipps inside. IT was absolutely clutch with free throws down the stretch, and was brilliant when he caught CP3 and the rest of the Clipps napping, blowing past them with a layup. The Prince was key with his defense and intelligent play. This guy is valuable. It's no coincidence he got major playing time in the previous victory over the Suns and in this very close hard-fought game that could have been won at the end. From what I could tell, nobody played poorly.
As for individual performances....It sure is nice to finally see a Patterson sighting. What'yaknow. He really can play the game. Cousins was outstanding on the boards and abusing the Clipps inside. IT was absolutely clutch with free throws down the stretch, and was brilliant when he caught CP3 and the rest of the Clipps napping, blowing past them with a layup. The Prince was key with his defense and intelligent play. This guy is valuable. It's no coincidence he got major playing time in the previous victory over the Suns and in this very close hard-fought game that could have been won at the end. From what I could tell, nobody played poorly.
x2RedReaper2x
G-League
I haven't been able to watch the last few games due to moving, can anybody tell me how Mbah a Moute has been playing?
And does anybody know why kingsflix stopped posting kings highlights?
And does anybody know why kingsflix stopped posting kings highlights?
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
my guess on the latter is that whoever the kingsflix producing employees were got canned in the turnover. I have noted it too, and tis too bad. Maybe go on over to the Kings' facebook page and make a Bring Back Kingsflix! post.
King Baller
All-Star
Just watched the game on the DVR. On the play where CP3 drove and Mbah fouled out Griffin fouled Kings players twice. He was holding MBah which is why CP3 was so wide open and then he pushed Cousins into CP3.
KB
KB
Yep. For anyone else who wants to see this if you view the little video that espn does to summarize the game this play is in there.
Know of any good references that cover the legalities of making highlight videos/compilations from NBA footage? I have considered putting highlights up on youtube but figured the NBA would end up requesting they be taken down. Maybe i'll look into it some more.
Siranthony
Starter
Just finished the game. I feel sick. I was so impressed with our team playing so hard and having the lead down the stretch. I was biting my nails hoping we would win. But no, it could not happen. I feel like we were the best team for a lot of the game. Just one hero shot away from a win against a contender on the road. I feel like this team has come a long way though. Go Kings! I'm still bummed ugh.
The Kings dug a hole, and then beat the Clippers the next three quarters. Cousins was fatigued at the end and ran out of gas. Great game in so many ways. This game gives me hope. Better team defense, better rebounding, better intensity, some fierce play. JLM is a difference maker. Go Kings.
MassachusettsKingsFan
All-Star
This is Clippers basketball, man. Nothing surprises me.
That being said, we deserved to lose based on how poor we played in the first quarter. Like Cousins said post game, they can't keep digging themselves into a hole, and then out of said hole. It's not a sustainable model.
And I don't know what we are doing with GV. Are we starting him or what? He only played 15 minutes last night. I don't get it. If Thomas is going to play more minutes, play crunch time minutes, then MAYBE playing him at the start of games before we go down big is the answer. I actually think that is what Cousins was suggesting in his post game comments, but that is just speculation.
That being said, we deserved to lose based on how poor we played in the first quarter. Like Cousins said post game, they can't keep digging themselves into a hole, and then out of said hole. It's not a sustainable model.
And I don't know what we are doing with GV. Are we starting him or what? He only played 15 minutes last night. I don't get it. If Thomas is going to play more minutes, play crunch time minutes, then MAYBE playing him at the start of games before we go down big is the answer. I actually think that is what Cousins was suggesting in his post game comments, but that is just speculation.
Watched the game live on TV. Just now reviewed the play-by-play of the first quarter. Didn't see evidence that Vasquez was responsible for the hole we got ourselves in. His poor defense on Paul was a contributor but........... I suspect starting IT would change the game somewhat but how much? The net game effect could very well be negative for us. We are playing well the way it is so don't rock the boat. It could be that starting McLemore has a greater negative effect, maybe not as bad as Thornton but maybe not as good as Salmons.
MassachusettsKingsFan
All-Star
I'm not blaming it all on GV, and he's been sort of better lately than he was earlier in the season, but he is the last position we can improve on. It's our last card. We are already starting our best C, PF, SF, and SG (sort of, all the SG's have struggled) .. IT is the last move.
It should be no surprise that this starting lineup can't score OR defend. McLemore is the only one who can shoot (and he hasn't been doing that particularly well). And GV / BM's defense as the two guards has been awful. Ben has been worse than Vasquez in a lot of ways on that end. The entire offense is Cousins and nothing else. The defense IS nothing.
It should be no surprise that this starting lineup can't score OR defend. McLemore is the only one who can shoot (and he hasn't been doing that particularly well). And GV / BM's defense as the two guards has been awful. Ben has been worse than Vasquez in a lot of ways on that end. The entire offense is Cousins and nothing else. The defense IS nothing.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
goes on all the time every single day on youtube. YT is the world's single greatest giant living breathing copyright violation. But its also maybe the one place parties, including the NBA, are routinely smart about it and take advantage of the free promotion.
jalfa
Starter
even if you wanted to jeopardise the future of this team in favour of (dubious) short term success, why not start Outlaw over Ben. seeing as he's been superior to Salmons thus far.
That sort of sums it up. Why am I not satisfied with your answer?
Don't agree. Salmons has played a few minutes at SG this season and has been good. He is a better contributor at SG right now than Ben so why not make the switch?
jalfa
Starter
because it would ruin the confidence of someone clearly very important to the organisation and is not likely to benefit the team long-term.
Chubbs
Starter
Mclemore is a negative right now. Salmons, if you have a win now mentality, should be at the 2. We know he'll struggle offensively, but not as a team defender which is where mclemore hurts the most.
Or you could say it's worth the lumps and the losses in the long term. And salmons would be only marginally better with zero upside. Mclemore gets hot he can out score salmons entire games in about 2 minutes. He'll have a 20 point quarter at some point.
I go with the lumps and losses for now.
You're right. In my view the the over-riding point of this for me is good basketball and winning games. Let the coaching staff and McLemore worry about the future. How would you feel if you were 83 years old. Come on, be real.
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