[Game] Golden State Warriors (6) @ Sacramento Kings (3) (WCDS Game 7, 3-3) 4/30/2023 12:30pm Pacific 3:30pm Eastern (ABC)

[iowamcnabb]

I brought up HB because so many of you already casting him out. SO quickly forgetting who all these players had voiced about HB's presence in the locker room. The even-keel demeanor. The pre-Playoffs speech he gave at the dinner reminded our younger roster to not take this moment for granted and don't act like we are just happy to be here but go out and perform like we belong here.

This is why I just laughed at the face of someone here earlier who said he "spoke the truth" when he had absolutely no idea outside of his own eye test.

HB brings leadership, availability (82 this year), generally great three point shooting, positional versatility and elite foul drawing. I’m open to an upgrade but that’s going to be harder than people think especially when most of the “upgrades” are restricted free agents.

 

[sactowndog]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1652810203476410368

Keeping Lyles is a must

 

[Kingz19]

This is probably a topic for another thread but the Atlanta Hawks probably regressed as a young talented team precisely because they weren't much of a young, talented team. That conference finals run they had was solely on the back of a bunch of vets they went on a shopping spree for over the COVID offseason and Trae Young being insanely hot before teams learned how to guard him. Once some of those older vets showed their age/missed a bunch of games, the young guys weren't ready to step up and that led to their front office trading the farm for a secondary all-star (Murray) and moving one of their actually good young players for cap relief/a single pick.

In contrast to that, the Kings pretty much made it to game seven on the backs of their young guys including a rising superstar in De'Aaron Fox and a rookie who JVG could barely conceal his happy stick for over the course of two games. It was in fact their "veterans" laying an egg (Harrison Barnes becoming unplayable, Sabonis just completely being out of his element) that probably did the team in more than anything. Now those young guys have some experience (Keegan seemed to just keep growing as a player as the series progressed. Malik Monk showed that his relentless aggression works when it counts) and the Kings front office still has time and resources to keep the train rolling.

They were pretty young. I know they had Gallo and Lou but Trae, Collins, Huerter, Capela(26) and I think Bogdan was 27. There was Reddish and Onkongwu.

I wasn’t suggesting our young guys could regress like I wasn’t talking about Atlanta’s young players regressing(even though a lot of theirs did)…I think basically all the Kings top players still have their best seasons ahead of them…even a steady guy like Domas has a lot of things that will be unlocked over the next couple of seasons.

I’m talking about keeping certain veterans around like Atlanta did and stagnating their growth…

Actually, forget Atlanta…

I’m merely trying to say I don’t think the Kings should bring HB back but I’m trying to say it indirectly for some reason.

I think they will bring him back simply because he might be a leader of the team, but I think doing so would greatly block some good possibilities for Keegan, the Kings building more depth at the wings, potentially bringing Vezenkov over or re-signing Trey. Which is why I referenced Atlanta and sentimentality.

But then again, Monte pulled the trigger of the Tyrese trade so maybe he’s not the sentimental type

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

... Monte actually has positioned himself in a pretty good spot to make a game changing move possibly but I think it's going to require that sooner than later when you look at this cap moving forward if he decides that's the course and so far, it has been.

I have said, and will continue to say, that I think that you're dead wrong about this. Fox and Sabonis' window hasn't even opened yet, and you're arguing as if you believe that it's already halfway closed.

This is Year One of the new era; it's too early to go all-in.

 

[iowamcnabb]

Keeping Lyles is a must

Bobby Marks just said on ESPN that it will likely take 3 for 24 and that it’s possible but unlikely that someone throws the whole mid level at him. It will be interesting to see what we do

 

[SacTownKid]

HB brings leadership, availability (82 this year), generally great three point shooting, positional versatility and elite foul drawing. I’m open to an upgrade but that’s going to be harder than people think especially when most of the “upgrades” are restricted free agents.

I still think it's two trains of thought. If Monte wants to keep this as is? You have to bring back Barnes. You literally almost give yourself no other option. I can actually see Sasha leaving every other F on the team in the dust, but as a 27 year old rookie, you are definitely going all eggs in there. Monte has potentially 3 paths as a GM and that's all you can really ask for. His issue is time. He doesn't have a ton of it in terms of decisions because that cap will harden big time in the summer of 2024.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

Who are you referring to?

LaVine.

 

[KainLear]

They were pretty young. I know they had Gallo and Lou but Trae, Collins, Huerter, Capela(26) and I think Bogdan was 27. There was Reddish and Onkongwu....

Also, one important distinction, which I'm very happy about and even slightly surprised to be able to say after just the first year with the new regime, is the culture we built under Mike Brown. We are a hardworking team where our players young and old respect each other, want the team to be successful, and work hard on their own to see it through.

This is why I think this roster won't be allowing this team to just take it easy and regress.

 

[LPKingsFan]

HB brings leadership, availability (82 this year), generally great three point shooting, positional versatility and elite foul drawing. I’m open to an upgrade but that’s going to be harder than people think especially when most of the “upgrades” are restricted free agents.

I generally agree but really feels like he wasn’t part of the solution this series. But maybe that’s over reacting to one series.

 

[SacTownKid]

I have said, and will continue to say, that I think that you're dead wrong about this. Fox and Sabonis' window hasn't even opened yet, and you're arguing as if you believe that it's already halfway closed.

This is Year One of the new era; it's too early to go all-in.

I am talking CAP WISE. If Monte wants to be able to add without subtraction or even being loosey goosey as far as his roster in the interim then he's got to act sooner than later. In 2024 you'll have Fox and Domas taking up two max slots on your cap. If they'll be intending to add a big name then then they have to basically let Barnes go or sign him to a 1 year deal, expect player like Monk to be gone by that point, or trade Huerter and even then it's probably not much in the way of actual flexibility.

 

[Edinphx]

Suns fan here. Totally disappointed with the Kings loss today. by far my favorite team after the Suns. Hopefully the teams front office can bring in the piece/pieces the team needs to go farther. Huge accomplishment for the Kings this year. I know the fans are disappointed however, I enjoyed watching the team play. Kings will be getting great respect next year. Wear your Kings gear proudly!

 

[iowamcnabb]

I still think it's two trains of thought. If Monte wants to keep this as is? You have to bring back Barnes. You literally almost give yourself no other option. I can actually see Sasha leaving every other F on the team in the dust, but as a 27 year old rookie, you are definitely going all eggs in there. Monte has potentially 3 paths as a GM and that's all you can really ask for. His issue is time. He doesn't have a ton of it in terms of decisions because that cap will harden big time in the summer of 2024.

my guess is that Monte brings back Barnes and Lyles AND signs Sasha. At that point he is all in on that core plus our draftees this year but he will then have tradeable contracts plus future picks to move if need be.

 

[SacTownKid]

LaVine.

Eh, I'm still hoping Monte shoots for someone like Siakam if he's going big. Or even Beal maybe. The benefit of LaVine is he might not hurt you much since he's probably replacing Huerter anyway. Or you could realistically even put him next to Red Velvet. Also, I would hope LaVine is gettable without touching Murray and/or maybe even Davion. IMO Siakam is the highest value target if the Raps are ready to finally quit F'ing around and get behind Scottie.

 

[Tetsujin]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1652822048358666240

 

[KainLear]

I generally agree but really feels like he wasn’t part of the solution this series. But maybe that’s over reacting to one series.

HB has not performed to the Playoffs level and that is not a secret. But he shouldn't be singled out because that would minimize two things, our other players' woe in this series, and the defensive effort the Warriors managed to put on us in general.

It might be easy to fall into hating HB like the Dubs fans reciting all his Playoffs woe, saying that HB can never make a decision-making final shot after Game 5 just because he had failed them before, forgetting all the last-minute shots he took.

This isn't NBA 2K Franchise mode.

 

[Larry89]

Exactly that's what puzzled me. We won last game because of small ball....and then he didn't play much of it this game? Like wtf? So what if Looney is in the lineup....by going small...you draw him and Draymond out and allow Fox and Monk to attack....this is what they have problem the last game. And yet Brown chose to use Sabonis more ....like why? So Looney and Green and hog the paint? The substitution is what upset me about this game, never mind that we lost.

What puzzled me is why was

You think that the optimal path to improving the Kings' most glaring weaknesses is to add a high-usage, high-volume, non-defensive iso player, who's owed $40M+ guaranteed next season?

But he does cool dunks

 

[KainLear]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1652822048358666240

I hate this man like there's no tomorrow.

But that's a classy thing to say especially when some of OUR OWN FANS think otherwise.

 

[Tetsujin]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1652821991156748290

 

[LPKingsFan]

my guess is that Monte brings back Barnes and Lyles AND signs Sasha. At that point he is all in on that core plus our draftees this year but he will then have tradeable contracts plus future picks to move if need be.

Yeah in terms of asset value maximizing, unless Barnes value has fallen to MLE, you run it back, add Sasha into the mix, and make a trade or two for fit and ideally consolidation of talent.

 

[SacTownKid]

my guess is that Monte brings back Barnes and Lyles AND signs Sasha. At that point he is all in on that core plus our draftees this year but he will then have tradeable contracts plus future picks to move if need be.

How many years is the question then? To me, I get Jason Thompson vibes with that plan. "Can't let this guy go". Uh, yeah you most certainly can. If this team were 58 wins I'm down. 48 with the teams behind teams 2 and 3 being right about their plan to bide their time is sketch as hell to me. Stagnate and you're probably stuck. I think that's an even worse gamble in terms of the low end. Sasha might be that good though, who knows. But if he is, Barnes and Lyles might be sitting over there on the bench with Holmes at some point.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

I am talking CAP WISE. If Monte wants to be able to add without subtraction or even being loosey goosey as far as his roster in the interim then he's got to act sooner than later. In 2024 you'll have Fox and Domas taking up two max slots on your cap. If they'll be intending to add a big name then then they have to basically let Barnes go or sign him to a 1 year deal, expect player like Monk to be gone by that point, or trade Huerter and even then it's probably not much in the way of actual flexibility.

The Kings will be in good shape, even if they retain Barnes, so long as they don't sign him to a long deal for big money. All they have to do on that front is make sure that they don't still owe him guaranteed money going into 2026. The more immediate concern is moving on from Holmes' contract, before his player option kicks in; that's the one that could impact the Kings' ability to extend Sabonis.

 

[KainLear]

How many years is the question then? To me, I get Jason Thompson vibes with that plan. "Can't let this guy go". Uh, yeah you most certainly can. If this team were 58 wins I'm down. 48 with the teams behind teams 2 and 3 being right about their plan to bide their time is sketch as hell to me. Stagnate and you're probably stuck. I think that's an even worse gamble in terms of the low end. Sasha might be that good though, who knows. But if he is, Barnes and Lyles might be sitting over there on the bench with Holmes at some point.

Did you just compare HB with Jason Thompson? I love Jason but c'mon...

 

[KainLear]

Yeah in terms of asset value maximizing, unless Barnes value has fallen to MLE, you run it back, add Sasha into the mix, and make a trade or two for fit and ideally consolidation of talent.

Honestly, we are 1-2 good wings away from faring much better in this series. All those 9-10 offensive rebounds Loon took down in the 3rd could've been different had we got a Scottie Barnes type in our roster, for instance.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

How many years is the question then? To me, I get Jason Thompson vibes with that plan. "Can't let this guy go". Uh, yeah you most certainly can. If this team were 58 wins I'm down. 48 with the teams behind teams 2 and 3 being right about their plan to bide their time is sketch as hell to me. Stagnate and you're probably stuck. I think that's an even worse gamble in terms of the low end. Sasha might be that good though, who knows. But if he is, Barnes and Lyles might be sitting over there on the bench with Holmes at some point.

Jason Thompson catching strays for no damned reason.

 

[SacTownKid]

The Kings will be in good shape, even if they retain Barnes, so long as they don't sign him to a long deal for big money. All they have to do on that front is make sure that they don't still owe him guaranteed money going into 2026. The more immediate concern is moving on from Holmes' contract, before his player option kicks in; that's the one that could impact the Kings' ability to extend Sabonis.

Ability to extend Sabonis? I don't even see that as an issue. That's going to happen at this point and it's going to cost big time. The issue is once you extend him or re-sign him, how do you add TO HIM and Fox. Almost nobody expected Monte to go all in on Fox but he did. Now that he did, it severely limits his abilities in some ways especially in terms of flexibility heading onward. I don't think anyone is expecting Monte to tear down this roster and it's feasible he can keep most of it intact while also making the next step kind of move. I'm going to give him enough credit to understand they did that on purpose. He's done well taking chances, now it's time to keep going IMO. Maybe LaVine, maybe Beal, etc. I do think not all the players in the mix are equal in terms of value though so it's up to a bunch of different factors. If Monte is deadset on keeping someone like Murray or Davion, or a pick here and there then it probably changes things. Maybe GM's think differently but I would imagine there is some gap in value between a Siakam and LaVine at this point.

 

[TaxMan]

https://www.espn.com/nba/game/_/gameId/400553095

 

[KainLear]

https://streamable.com/1ra0x6

We are gonna have to tell him just how ready we are next year when he's sitting on the bench WATCHING the Playoffs.

 

[SacTownKid]

Jason Thompson catching strays for no damned reason.

LOL, not sure if this is a joke but because you're not looking at the reason. I'm talking about assigning value to ancillary pieces to your roster and then watching them hamper your cap space. This all goes together. Would "Richaun Holmes" vibes, or "Kenny Thomas" vibes be more appropriate? I remember having some pretty direct conversations about moving Holmes last deadline too. Value is all based on result.

 

[iowamcnabb]

How many years is the question then? To me, I get Jason Thompson vibes with that plan. "Can't let this guy go". Uh, yeah you most certainly can. If this team were 58 wins I'm down. 48 with the teams behind teams 2 and 3 being right about their plan to bide their time is sketch as hell to me. Stagnate and you're probably stuck. I think that's an even worse gamble in terms of the low end. Sasha might be that good though, who knows. But if he is, Barnes and Lyles might be sitting over there on the bench with Holmes at some point.

the bottom line is we don’t really have cap space anyway. If you don’t sign Barnes you have 20 mil to work with but who can you sign? The best potential upgrades are restricted free agents. Cam Johnson was traded in the Durant deal, would the nets let him walk for nothing? Grant Williams hasn’t been great this year, is he worth the 80 mil dollar gamble? I guess I just don’t see any freeagent options that for sure make us better. It has to happen through internal improvement (Plenty of the guys can get better), trades and the draft. I’m looking at 3 year deals, contracts that could still be moveable.

 

[Spike]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1652821991156748290

This makes me feel a little better. Not happy, but better. He's right - we're a young team, not even yet in our prime. We took the defending champs to 7 games with our best players working through injuries.