Go Grizzlies! (Kings Related)

[Gilles]

This thread might turn into another debate on the best 20% of the season run Kings had in a decade now that it is mentioned again.

Cousins is not going to beat SFs off the dribble - that's the fastest way to a lot of offensive fouls and poked balls. Moving the ball and getting proper passing angle, that would make fronting useless, instead of ballhandler standing waiting for Cuz to getting clear of his opponent looks like an obvious and very effective way to go.

the statement "you want double teams to happen" is shaky at best.

lol. That's the foundation of success in the NBA.

Great Roy Hibbert was abusing Heat and their great swarming defense in 11/12 POs, because he was in great shape and Pacers were focused on getting him the ball at the right moment. If West shot better than .448 from the field or PG didn't average 4.5TOpg (granted he was still a sophomore at the time, but still Roy only had 2.6 TOpg), Indiana would've advanced.

Yea, those Grizzles showed the Warriors who's the boss!!

Grizzlies showed only, that you can't survive with 3 shaky jumpshooters out there for most of the game.

As for Warriors both Steph and Klay don't like when their dribble/ball control is attacked. That's why Conley and Allen were so effective against them as was Darren this past season - 69 points over 64 possessions (16 possessions with .539 TS%) and 3.25 TOpg vs season averages of .638TS% over 21 possession per game and 3.1 TOpg. Thompson was contained in one game under Malone - 19 points on 19 possessions and 5 TOs, but went berserk against Corbin version of Kings - TS% of .771 over 59 possessions and 2.33 TOpg. Another note: in the only game against Malone's Kings Warriors had 21 assists/22 TOs, against Corbin's - 33.33 assists/13.33 TOs.

 

[mac]

This thread might turn into another debate on the best 20% of the season run Kings had in a decade now that it is mentioned again.

Cousins is not going to beat SFs off the dribble - that's the fastest way to a lot of offensive fouls and poked balls. Moving the ball and getting proper passing angle, that would make fronting useless, instead of ballhandler standing waiting for Cuz to getting clear of his opponent looks like an obvious and very effective way to go.

lol. That's the foundation of success in the NBA.

Great Roy Hibbert was abusing Heat and their great swarming defense in 11/12 POs, because he was in great shape and Pacers were focused on getting him the ball at the right moment. If West shot better than .448 from the field or PG didn't average 4.5TOpg (granted he was still a sophomore at the time, but still Roy only had 2.6 TOpg), Indiana would've advanced.


Grizzlies showed only, that you can't survive with 3 shaky jumpshooters out there for most of the game.

As for Warriors both Steph and Klay don't like when their dribble/ball control is attacked. That's why Conley and Allen were so effective against them as was Darren this past season - 69 points over 64 possessions (16 possessions with .539 TS%) and 3.25 TOpg vs season averages of .638TS% over 21 possession per game and 3.1 TOpg. Thompson was contained in one game under Malone - 19 points on 19 possessions and 5 TOs, but went berserk against Corbin version of Kings - TS% of .771 over 59 possessions and 2.33 TOpg. Another note: in the only game against Malone's Kings Warriors had 21 assists/22 TOs, against Corbin's - 33.33 assists/13.33 TOs.

Save for one or two games I'd hardly call Conley and Allen's work against them "so effective". People are so quick to act as if Curry can be shutdown but are just as quick to assume that no one will be able to stop Cousins. Oh man I just want us to actually reach the playoffs so we can stop dealing with hypotheticals.

 

[Chubbs]

Please someone explain to me again how golden state and Atlanta can't win in the playoffs.

I'd love to struggle all the way to the conference finals.

 

[Gilles]

They are most healthy.
And almost everybody predicted Hawks in ECF (let's see, how that goes), before POs started, anyway. Only after blowing Raptors did Wizards become considered as a threat to them, but then Wall's injury happened.
As for Warriors they got Pelicans, who can't defend on the perimeter - 22nd worst overall defense this season, as everybody predicted. Then Grizzlies, who were hit by injuries to their good defensive backcourt.
In Golden State - Memphis series
Warriors averaged 106.99 ORtg with season average for them at 111.6 and average for Grizzlies opponents at 102.2 - Warriors were slowed down on offense
Grizzlies averaged 98.10 ORtg with season average for them at 105.7 and average for Warriors opponents at 101.4 - Grizzlies couldn't overcome opponents' defense
And pace was actually lower, than Grizzlies' season average, so Memphis dragged Warriors to their level, but got out-defended in the end.
Again let's wait for Conference Finals - if Clippers get there and advance, then 1 round series will be crowned as stealth Finals.

 

[KingsFanGER]

lol. That's the foundation of success in the NBA.

Depends on how you define it. Drawing double teams with a most of the time stagnant 1vs1 post play, is not the foundation of success today.
In fact the foundation to success is getting the best shot in basketball - the open shot (of course it depends on the skill level of your players how far on the perimeter this open shot can be to still be effective and this is what makes having lots of 3pt-shooters this beneficial today). And most teams do this by using picks, penetration and ball movement.
Of course everyone turns to the Warriors and speaks about their 3point-shooting. Well how about the 3 wide open layups for Green in the 3rd, where they used picks, cuts and ball movement to get extremely high percentage looks? How about the fact, that they are one of the best teams in scoring in the paint?
Why are they able to do this? Because they operate with a maximum of space. Every basketball play becomes just so much easier, when you have enough space.
And one of the places, where you don't have much space to operate is the low post, because the baseline acts as another defender. This is why Cousins (and Gasol) often attacks from the high post.
But still a post play means, that you need to be able to beat your defender out of a stagnant starting position (at least that's the way I would define it. Maybe you look at it differentely).
Well the pick&roll is all about movement. You attack the defender with momentum going your way, if done properly. And this causes all kinds of problems for the defense (maybe take a look at Wall/Gortat duo finishing the pick&roll at a rate at about 70%).
Basically my thesis is simple: The offense has an advantage, when they can attack the defense with momentum and have maximized space to make their moves.
You can disagree with this thesis and make arguments based on historic stats or based on the run in the beginning of the season. Actually I have no problem, when you disagree. After all this is what a message board is about.
But you shouldn't look down on this thesis, when 3 teams, that advanced into the conference finals actually use this approach.

 

[KingMilz]

Save for one or two games I'd hardly call Conley and Allen's work against them "so effective". People are so quick to act as if Curry can be shutdown but are just as quick to assume that no one will be able to stop Cousins. Oh man I just want us to actually reach the playoffs so we can stop dealing with hypotheticals.

I'm shocked no one has made excuses for Tyreke and how if he were 100% healthy the Pelicans would have beat the Warrior's and also if Mike Malone (or some other mythical coach) was coaching the Pelicans I'm sure they would beaten the Warriors as well is another one.

The amount of hypothetical's and excuses as to why the Warriors and Hawks are doing well is just ridicilous, they were the two best teams during the regular season and whatever luck they got there way they deserved and created by being the #1 seed. Obviously if your the #1 seed your going to run into a crapty team (or teams if your in the East).

 

[Gilles]

Do you have anything to contribute to debate, other than sarcasm?
lol at "whatever luck they got there way they deserved" - you know, what luck is by definition, right?
Btw I was actually rooting for the Hawks - getting Wall into ESF and potentially into the Finals would've really decreased Boogie's tolerance for a lack of success in Sacramento.
Grizzlies being bounced also helps as it increases the likelihood of Grizzlies being weakened in FA - no way, Koufos returns, and I doubt, there will be quality backup bigs available for MLE.
In other words West might see uncertainty in 3-4 PO spots instead of only #8, that we saw recently.

Health is a legitimate concern. Take...not even Bogut, take Harrison Barnes out and Grizzlies win the series.
Spurs lost to Clips in one possession series with hobbled Splitter and Parker.

 

[mac]

I'm shocked no one has made excuses for Tyreke and how if he were 100% healthy the Pelicans would have beat the Warrior's and also if Mike Malone (or some other mythical coach) was coaching the Pelicans I'm sure they would beaten the Warriors as well is another one.

The amount of hypothetical's and excuses as to why the Warriors and Hawks are doing well is just ridicilous, they were the two best teams during the regular season and whatever luck they got there way they deserved and created by being the #1 seed. Obviously if your the #1 seed your going to run into a poopooty team (or teams if your in the East).

Well ... as a Pelicans supporter (due to Tyreke) I do believe his injury did affect his game. But they weren't going to beat the Warriors. Might have won 2 games if they had been healthy. The Warriors are a good team. As are the Clippers. As are the Hawks. It was the Pels first time to the playoffs. The Warriors play good D and they have a ridiculously good shooter. Good for them! They're playing exactly the way they should be playing. There are a few things we can take away from their play - moving the ball, setting good screens, having good off the ball movement. That said I do think (and hope) that our FO gives up on this illusive chase of the next Curry/Thompson. We have Cousins, let's at least give him a run in the playoffs before jumping to any conclusion that we can or cannot win with a post player as our #1 option and no superstar guard.

 

[KingsFanGER]

Well ... as a Pelicans supporter (due to Tyreke) I do believe his injury did affect his game. But they weren't going to beat the Warriors. Might have won 2 games if they had been healthy. The Warriors are a good team. As are the Clippers. As are the Hawks. It was the Pels first time to the playoffs. The Warriors play good D and they have a ridiculously good shooter. Good for them! They're playing exactly the way they should be playing. There are a few things we can take away from their play - moving the ball, setting good screens, having good off the ball movement. That said I do think (and hope) that our FO gives up on this illusive chase of the next Curry/Thompson. We have Cousins, let's at least give him a run in the playoffs before jumping to any conclusion that we can or cannot win with a post player as our #1 option and no superstar guard.

I agree with this. But I don't think our FO chased the next Curry/Thompson and I don't think they ever wanted to turn the Kings into a Warrior clone.
The great thing is, that Cousins is not a player, that's limited to the post. So I think the right way going forward may be to use Cousins in many different ways, while posting him up still remains one of the options.

 

[Spike]

I agree with this. But I don't think our FO chased the next Curry/Thompson and I don't think they ever wanted to turn the Kings into a Warrior clone.
The great thing is, that Cousins is not a player, that's limited to the post. So I think the right way going forward may be to use Cousins in many different ways, while posting him up still remains one of the options.

Actually, up until Vlade's arrival, pretty much everything the FO has said and done implies pretty much that.

 

[KingsFanGER]

Actually, up until Vlade's arrival, pretty much everything the FO has said and done implies pretty much that.

Well this is how you read it. I won't go down this road again. You might revisit one of PrinceXY many replies to this topic, if you like.

 

[Bricklayer]

How thew **** do you know any of this? Cousins sucked against GSW and has been outplayed by Bogut nearly has entire career. Let Cousins actually get to the playoffs before making up hypothetical crap which has zero merit to it. Man some of the assumptions on here are getting ridiculous the fact Memphis even won 2 games against a team as good and lethal as the Warriors imo is impressive.

Cousins struggled against Festus Ezeli since Festus has been in the NBA which is the Warriors back up C but yet he would have dominated the Warriors in the playoffs where the defense is better and smarter.......yeah sure.

2 things:

1) that is exactly the point -- I think Bogut should have been DPOY this year. But Andrew Bogut is how the Warriors contain Cousins. They can't fart around with him. And because of that, take Cousins and put him on Memphis the Warriors would not have been able to play the matchup games they did against Gasol. Bogut would have had to guard Cousins, not zone up. Again, the huge advantage of having an elite #1 option is not that the option himself is going to be allowed to drop 50 every night, its that the attention he draws from the defense makes life easier for all his offensive teammates.

2) the last two times we met the Warriors this year, Bogut was there, and Cuz dropped 28-11 and 26-11 on him on 9-19FG and 10-21FG. People who have been paying attention have seen this before. Bogut's a tough and nasty defender, but Cuz is a HOF center, and he has repeatedly in his career figured out guys who used to give him trouble. It is possible Bogut's edge has come to an end too.

 

[Bricklayer]

Please someone explain to me again how golden state and Atlanta can't win in the playoffs.

I'd love to struggle all the way to the conference finals.

Atlanta has been exposed pretty badly. Here's Atlanta's playoff strategy: don't face a single team that would even make the West playoffs until you reach the ECF, and struggle and be threatened the whole way. Then maybe if you are lucky you can get an ECF matchup against a team missing 2 of its 3 stars and sneak all the way into the Finals while having proven almost nothing at all.

Golden State of course was always going to be a favorite to make it as the team with the best record in the league. I do think its a remarkable run of luck for them that they are quite possibly going to make it through all 3 rounds of the West playing 3 straight teams with injured PGs. Not just any injured PGs either, but 3 of the better defensive PGs. And all 3 will have been missing or limited, while Golden State's franchise guy is a PG. I don't know what the odds are of that, but its as if we made the playoffs next year, met the Warriors, Grizz, and Rockets, and Bogut, Gasol, and Howard were all either banged up or just out of the series. Golden State would have to be the favorites anyway, but things have lined up perfectly for them. We're in a transition year, all the old powers are dead or dying, Clippers look like the only potential challenge, and the Clippers are so sloppy mentally they may not even make it to them.

 

[jalfa]

2 things:

1) that is exactly the point -- I think Bogut should have been DPOY this year. But Andrew Bogut is how the Warriors contain Cousins. They can't fart around with him. And because of that, take Cousins and put him on Memphis the Warriors would not have been able to play the matchup games they did against Gasol. Bogut would have had to guard Cousins, not zone up. Again, the huge advantage of having an elite #1 option is not that the option himself is going to be allowed to drop 50 every night, its that the attention he draws from the defense makes life easier for all his offensive teammates.

2) the last two times we met the Warriors this year, Bogut was there, and Cuz dropped 28-11 and 26-11 on him on 9-19FG and 10-21FG. People who have been paying attention have seen this before. Bogut's a tough and nasty defender, but Cuz is a HOF center, and he has repeatedly in his career figured out guys who used to give him trouble. It is possible Bogut's edge has come to an end too.

why would Cousins being on the Grizz change anything about the way the Warriors approach that series, when the main reason they could play it the way they did was Tony Allen? of course Bogut would again be put on Allen and double team any and everybody with the ball in the paint. put Kyle Korver on that team and they change matchups. hell, put Ben McLemore on that team and they might change it up, but putting a bigger offensive threat in the centre position only amplifies the need to have a free safety that can help every time that the centre's primary defender gets beat.

 

[Spike]

Well this is how you read it. I won't go down this road again. You might revisit one of PrinceXY many replies to this topic, if you like.

You've hitched yourself to a strange wagon.

 

[LPKingsFan]

Please someone explain to me again how golden state and Atlanta can't win in the playoffs.

I'd love to struggle all the way to the conference finals.

You know, you've touched on something I've been thinking about for a while. I know the ultimate goal is, of course, to win it all. But I think looking only at teams that won a championship is an imperfect metric to gauge success. It's such a small sample, and there's so much luck that affects the outcome at that point, that I think to truly get an accurate take of what teams are the best then maybe you should look at the "final four" teams. I'd be happy to have a team that consistently gets to the conference finals. As we all know, a few lucky shots here, a couple missed calls there, an injury or two to a key player all matter considerably in winning it all.

 

[captain bill]

Depends on how you define it. Drawing double teams with a most of the time stagnant 1vs1 post play, is not the foundation of success today.
In fact the foundation to success is getting the best shot in basketball - the open shot (of course it depends on the skill level of your players how far on the perimeter this open shot can be to still be effective and this is what makes having lots of 3pt-shooters this beneficial today). And most teams do this by using picks, penetration and ball movement.
Of course everyone turns to the Warriors and speaks about their 3point-shooting. Well how about the 3 wide open layups for Green in the 3rd, where they used picks, cuts and ball movement to get extremely high percentage looks? How about the fact, that they are one of the best teams in scoring in the paint?
Why are they able to do this? Because they operate with a maximum of space. Every basketball play becomes just so much easier, when you have enough space.
And one of the places, where you don't have much space to operate is the low post, because the baseline acts as another defender. This is why Cousins (and Gasol) often attacks from the high post.
But still a post play means, that you need to be able to beat your defender out of a stagnant starting position (at least that's the way I would define it. Maybe you look at it differentely).
Well the pick&roll is all about movement. You attack the defender with momentum going your way, if done properly. And this causes all kinds of problems for the defense (maybe take a look at Wall/Gortat duo finishing the pick&roll at a rate at about 70%).
Basically my thesis is simple: The offense has an advantage, when they can attack the defense with momentum and have maximized space to make their moves.
You can disagree with this thesis and make arguments based on historic stats or based on the run in the beginning of the season. Actually I have no problem, when you disagree. After all this is what a message board is about.
But you shouldn't look down on this thesis, when 3 teams, that advanced into the conference finals actually use this approach.

It's also the model that the Spurs and Heat followed over the last few years.

It's funny to me that this board is so rabidly against spacing and ball movement when Adelman's Kings were one of the first teams to really build this effective type of system on both ends of the court. AND we had an elite big man with an array of passing skills, post moves, a mid range game, and was a good defender. Apparently a sizeable contingent of posters on this board have forgotten what that team accomplished and just how good it was, but what the Warriors, Heat, and Spurs have done really looks to me like the evolution of the Princeton offense with all-star level NBA players.

 

[randymoss1881]

Please someone explain to me again how golden state and Atlanta can't win in the playoffs.

I'd love to struggle all the way to the conference finals.

Atalanta get that weak crap outta here. They loose in 6 easily if wall was healthy crap they still loose in 6 with an injured wall if Nene didn't fall off the hill so far.
Anyway I'm pretty sure we are against the GS angle because we don't and probably never will have that type of personal.

 

[SacTownKid]

Please someone explain to me again how golden state and Atlanta can't win in the playoffs.

I'd love to struggle all the way to the conference finals.

I will say this, not to diminish what either team has done, or will do, but does anyone else feel like there is a bit of luck and perfect timing going on here? This is like the first time in forever that there hasn't been a single "great" team to go through. The Spurs are old, the Heat broke up, the Cavs injured. I think this is the first time in however long I can remember that the trophy is truly up for grabs. I like this NBA a lot better to be honest.

 

[SacTownKid]

Atlanta has been exposed pretty badly. Here's Atlanta's playoff strategy: don't face a single team that would even make the West playoffs until you reach the ECF, and struggle and be threatened the whole way. Then maybe if you are lucky you can get an ECF matchup against a team missing 2 of its 3 stars and sneak all the way into the Finals while having proven almost nothing at all.

Golden State of course was always going to be a favorite to make it as the team with the best record in the league. I do think its a remarkable run of luck for them that they are quite possibly going to make it through all 3 rounds of the West playing 3 straight teams with injured PGs. Not just any injured PGs either, but 3 of the better defensive PGs. And all 3 will have been missing or limited, while Golden State's franchise guy is a PG. I don't know what the odds are of that, but its as if we made the playoffs next year, met the Warriors, Grizz, and Rockets, and Bogut, Gasol, and Howard were all either banged up or just out of the series. Golden State would have to be the favorites anyway, but things have lined up perfectly for them. We're in a transition year, all the old powers are dead or dying, Clippers look like the only potential challenge, and the Clippers are so sloppy mentally they may not even make it to them.

Haha, I guess there is someone else. I feel the Rockets will be a tough battle for the Warriors if they meet. If they can shoot a little better that is. They are so hot and cold. If the Cavs make it past the Hawks it will be an interesting finals if it's the W's and the Cavs.

 

[bajaden]

2 things:

1) that is exactly the point -- I think Bogut should have been DPOY this year. But Andrew Bogut is how the Warriors contain Cousins. They can't fart around with him. And because of that, take Cousins and put him on Memphis the Warriors would not have been able to play the matchup games they did against Gasol. Bogut would have had to guard Cousins, not zone up. Again, the huge advantage of having an elite #1 option is not that the option himself is going to be allowed to drop 50 every night, its that the attention he draws from the defense makes life easier for all his offensive teammates.

2) the last two times we met the Warriors this year, Bogut was there, and Cuz dropped 28-11 and 26-11 on him on 9-19FG and 10-21FG. People who have been paying attention have seen this before. Bogut's a tough and nasty defender, but Cuz is a HOF center, and he has repeatedly in his career figured out guys who used to give him trouble. It is possible Bogut's edge has come to an end too.

As Rick Barry said once when asked who in the NBA could stop him for scoring, "No one, great players are always going to score, all a great defender can do is make them work harder to get their points".

 

[bajaden]

Atlanta has been exposed pretty badly. Here's Atlanta's playoff strategy: don't face a single team that would even make the West playoffs until you reach the ECF, and struggle and be threatened the whole way. Then maybe if you are lucky you can get an ECF matchup against a team missing 2 of its 3 stars and sneak all the way into the Finals while having proven almost nothing at all.

Golden State of course was always going to be a favorite to make it as the team with the best record in the league. I do think its a remarkable run of luck for them that they are quite possibly going to make it through all 3 rounds of the West playing 3 straight teams with injured PGs. Not just any injured PGs either, but 3 of the better defensive PGs. And all 3 will have been missing or limited, while Golden State's franchise guy is a PG. I don't know what the odds are of that, but its as if we made the playoffs next year, met the Warriors, Grizz, and Rockets, and Bogut, Gasol, and Howard were all either banged up or just out of the series. Golden State would have to be the favorites anyway, but things have lined up perfectly for them. We're in a transition year, all the old powers are dead or dying, Clippers look like the only potential challenge, and the Clippers are so sloppy mentally they may not even make it to them.

While all that is true, and no whining is allowed in my foursome. The Warriors deserve what their getting. They had the best record in the NBA, and the best point differential between points scored, and points allowed in the NBA. That usually means your chance of winning most of your games is pretty good. Lets put it this way, if you had a thousand dollars to bet on the team you thought would win the whole thing, the smart money would have been on the Warriors. As I have no dog in this hunt, I really don't care who wins. I do have a soft spot in my heart for the Hawks since their my old team from St. Louis, and they've never won anything. But then the Warriors haven't won anything since the Rick Barry days. So let the best team win...

 

[bajaden]

I will say this, not to diminish what either team has done, or will do, but does anyone else feel like there is a bit of luck and perfect timing going on here? This is like the first time in forever that there hasn't been a single "great" team to go through. The Spurs are old, the Heat broke up, the Cavs injured. I think this is the first time in however long I can remember that the trophy is truly up for grabs. I like this NBA a lot better to be honest.

Personally, if the Kings can't be in the mix, then I kind of like having two teams battling it out that haven't been there for a long long time.

 

[Bricklayer]

why would Cousins being on the Grizz change anything about the way the Warriors approach that series, when the main reason they could play it the way they did was Tony Allen? of course Bogut would again be put on Allen and double team any and everybody with the ball in the paint. put Kyle Korver on that team and they change matchups. hell, put Ben McLemore on that team and they might change it up, but putting a bigger offensive threat in the centre position only amplifies the need to have a free safety that can help every time that the centre's primary defender gets beat.

Oh, I don't disagree that it took 2 weaknesses for the Warriors to execute their strategy. But it did take 2.

The Grizz could have weathered that storm by either having a) an elite shooter to keep the Warriors honest and playing the Grizz's good but not great big men straight up; or b) a truly elite big man scorer to demand Bogut's personal attention fulltime, and ability to beat doubles if they come.

 

[pshn80]

It's not hard to believe that GSW beat the Grizz. It's quite possible that the Warriors have a better team, in fact, probable. And it is nicer when you are rooting for that team.

 

[KingMilz]

2 things:

1) that is exactly the point -- I think Bogut should have been DPOY this year. But Andrew Bogut is how the Warriors contain Cousins. They can't fart around with him. And because of that, take Cousins and put him on Memphis the Warriors would not have been able to play the matchup games they did against Gasol. Bogut would have had to guard Cousins, not zone up. Again, the huge advantage of having an elite #1 option is not that the option himself is going to be allowed to drop 50 every night, its that the attention he draws from the defense makes life easier for all his offensive teammates.

2) the last two times we met the Warriors this year, Bogut was there, and Cuz dropped 28-11 and 26-11 on him on 9-19FG and 10-21FG. People who have been paying attention have seen this before. Bogut's a tough and nasty defender, but Cuz is a HOF center, and he has repeatedly in his career figured out guys who used to give him trouble. It is possible Bogut's edge has come to an end too.

The majority of those stats from what I recall came when the game was complete over. Stats to me are more about when/how you get them than they are the total amount.

While I'm not saying Cousins couldn't dominate Bogut (cause a few games he has) or any other GSW big this notion that Cousins would have dominated the Warriors with literally little to no evidence of it is a joke, I need to see it to believe it. I just don't get how a person can make that type of statement when literally all the evidence to this point suggests otherwise and it''s a incident that's never occurred. We don't know if Cousins would fit in with Memphis or anything like that all we can go on is what has Cousins done against the Warriors lately and really when the games been in the crunch he really has not put a dent in GS or Bogut/Festus for the most part they have blown us off the court in literally every game.

 

[KingMilz]

Atalanta get that weak poopoo outta here. They loose in 6 easily if wall was healthy poopoo they still loose in 6 with an injured wall if Nene didn't fall off the hill so far.
Anyway I'm pretty sure we are against the GS angle because we don't and probably never will have that type of personal.

If Horford didn't have a broken pinky, if Millsap didn't have the flu, if Teague didn't sprain his ankle, if Thabo had not been beaten by cops.........if if if all day. Maybe IF Wall was tough like Al Horford he could have have played earlier? The If game.

 

[Big Cuz 15]

it's hard to tell if it was really the warriors that kicked out asses or was it partially coaching and team dysfunction due to instability. for a brief, a very very brief moment we looked like a team that wouldn't die easily. all that went out the door when the FO & vivek decided glamour over substance was the hierarchy of the team.

 

[randymoss1881]

If Horford didn't have a broken pinky, if Millsap didn't have the flu, if Teague didn't sprain his ankle, if Thabo had not been beaten by cops.........if if if all day. Maybe IF Wall was tough like Al Horford he could have have played earlier? The If game.

Tough dude has 5 broken bones

 

[kingsboi]

If Horford didn't have a broken pinky, if Millsap didn't have the flu, if Teague didn't sprain his ankle, if Thabo had not been beaten by cops.........if if if all day. Maybe IF Wall was tough like Al Horford he could have have played earlier? The If game.

one thing you cannot question is the toughness and heart of John Wall...he is their leader and their toughest player, no contest.