True. And to me it's still a work in progress. You don't open an oven until the souffle is done... (I don't bake pies).
True. And to me it's still a work in progress. You don't open an oven until the souffle is done... (I don't bake pies).
I appreciate the optimism and the positive outlook, I really do. And when the season starts I'll hope for the best from the roster that's been assembled. I'm a Kings fan. I'd much, MUCH rather see them win and be proved wrong than see them lose and be proved right.
But I can't put a positive spin on this signing. I could roll with the Tyreke sign-and-trade. The new FO feels he won't reach his ceiling and/or doesn't see him being a successful PG and therefore not worth the premium price tag. Fine. Vasquez is a nice piece to get back rather than lose him for nothing. Young, pass-first PG who put up some intriguing numbers last season and who only has a year left on his rookie deal, making him a cheap experiment who can be cut loose to preserve capspace or resigned using Bird Rights if he takes a huge leap forward to being a great PG. I liked Tyreke but I can be okay with that move.
But Landry? How does he fit with Cousins who Vivek and PDA have anointed as the cornerstone of the franchise? Is he better than JT? Is he even an upgrade on Patterson? He'd better be since the Kings are paying him more.
Again, a four year deal for an undersized, poor defensive, non-passing, post scoring PF who is best as a bench sparkplug who at 29 has no upside (only downside) left? He's not the kind of vet that can tutor or mentor DMC, he doesn't stretch the floor or provide weakside shotblocking and in general appears to be a luxury item rather than a building block.
And if you want to sign Landry as a bench player, at least clear out some of the existing flotsam & jetsam to make it more palatable. Next year the Kings will have around $25.5 million dollars tied up in Salmons, Jimmer, Hayes, Outlaw and now Landry. None of them are starters on a good team and yet they are eating up nearly half the cap. Not to mention Thornton who will also be coming off the bench to the tune of $8 million.
The strawman will be trotted out that fans are demanding a contender immediately, most prominently on 1140 on Monday. But that's not the case at all. What fans want is movement in a positive direction. Trade away bad deals, grab some high risk, high reward players, accumulate cap room and/or first round picks. How is Landry a change in culture or mindset. Everything everyone says to support the move now is the exactly what was said when people tried to support Petrie signing Chuck Hayes. Replace post scoring with post defense and 15 foot jumper with outlet/elbow passes and the positives are the same. Tough, hard nosed but undersized PF who will provide a veteran presence.
It's not that I'm impatient. It's that I don't see this move (or going after Sam Young or Jose Calderon) as positive developments for a rebuilding team. Just more of what we had under the Maloofs and Petrie instead of the bold and innovative moves we were promised. We'll see.
kennadog
Dog On It!
This is a depressingly negative thread. If PDA needs to learn that its hard to get free agents to come to Sac, then a lot of people here are just like PDA. Its obvious neither Iguodola or Calderon wanted to come to Sacramento. We had no chance to get either. I hate that we traded Evans. On the other hand, only one team in the entire league valued Evans at $44 million for four years, but our FO sucks, because they didn't value Evans at that, just like 28 other teams didn't?
Sure, I wish we could sign a major free agent, but who would that be, that would actually agree to sign here? And it would have to be a FA that fits our perceived "needs," making the market pool really small. Iguodola passed up a several million to sign elsewhere. Wanting certain free agents and getting them are two different things.
And free agency is not the only way to get players we want. Because Sacramento is near the bottom in attractiveness to free agents, its always been more likely the team would trade for players it wants. There's still a whole summer to do that. The team that starts practice in October could look quite different than what we have now.
And I'm not even an optimist. All right. Jump in and pick my bones clean.
Sure, I wish we could sign a major free agent, but who would that be, that would actually agree to sign here? And it would have to be a FA that fits our perceived "needs," making the market pool really small. Iguodola passed up a several million to sign elsewhere. Wanting certain free agents and getting them are two different things.
And free agency is not the only way to get players we want. Because Sacramento is near the bottom in attractiveness to free agents, its always been more likely the team would trade for players it wants. There's still a whole summer to do that. The team that starts practice in October could look quite different than what we have now.
And I'm not even an optimist. All right. Jump in and pick my bones clean.
True. And to me it's still a work in progress. You don't open an oven until the souffle is done... (I don't bake pies).
A souffle isn't a souffle. A souffle is the recipe.
I don't care all that much how other front offices valued Tyreke Evans. You watched him play for 4 years. Do you think he was worth a 44 million dollar contract?
kennadog
Dog On It!
I wanted to keep Tyreke, so I might be prone to overvalue him. I would have matched. However it is instructive that only one team appears to have thought Evans was worth that much.
Whether you do or don't is irrelevant. You can't let talent walk for free if you're the Kings, which is what we did here. If you don't want Tyreke, you sign him and trade him for another impact player, not for a role player and two second round picks. If you're in big market you can let talent walk and resign other guys, if you're in Sacramento you build through the draft, through retaining your players, and through trading for other teams talent that they don't think fits. Which if you remember is how we got Webber when the Bullets had Webber, Howard, and Wallace. In order to "balance their roster" and "change the culture" they dumped Webb and Rasheed Wallace for Rod Strickland and Mitch Richmond trading away two guys who I think should be Hall of Famers who they had to know were more talented than what they were getting back for balance, and for culture change.
For the record this off season we're looking a lot like we're being managed by the same guys who made those moves for the Bullets. Throwing away potentially 5 years of Chris Webber and Rasheed Wallace i the same frontcourt. That's my concern with how things are going.
That is a good point. Actually we know that at least one team wanted him as number 1 priority for that money.
He got taken very quickly and we will never know if there was any other team that was willing to pay that money later if they do not land their no1 option.
That is not even a biggie.
As you mentioned, it is difficult to acquire major free agent to come here. I do not see any player remotely close to Reke's level that would require notably less money to come here. That is the biggie.
One team wanted Tyreke and had the cap space to sign him, that doesn't mean he wasn't also wanted elsewhere. Some teams wanted Howard or Igoudala or Josh Smith instead and preferred to commit their cap space there. Most teams didn't have the means to sign Tyreke even if they wanted to. You can trust your intuition I think. Sure some people will tell you that you're just a fan, but you've seen as much or more of what Tyreke can do as the GMs in the league. And you've watched a lot of basketball period. Sometimes it really is that simple.
Well I think so anyway. And it's not like GMs don't make bad decisions all the time. Somehow every GM in the league passed on Ben Wallace and Brad Miller and they both ended up being All Star centers, the most coveted type of player there is ... I can be patient, I didn't really expect us to go out and sign any big-name guys in year 1 of having a new staff. I'm just sad Tyreke is gone. Can't speak for anyone else of course, but my negativity has mostly been directed at the people who are telling me that I'm foolish for being sad about this and my opinion doesn't count.
Section 101
All-Star
One team wanted Tyreke and had the cap space to sign him, that doesn't mean he wasn't also wanted elsewhere. Some teams wanted Howard or Igoudala or Josh Smith instead and preferred to commit their cap space there. Most teams didn't have the means to sign Tyreke even if they wanted to. You can trust your intuition I think. Sure some people will tell you that you're just a fan, but you've seen as much or more of what Tyreke can do as the GMs in the league. And you've watched a lot of basketball period. Sometimes it really is that simple.
Except it was clear the Kings were willing to do a sign and trade. They could have worked with just about any team out there.
Teams that are already in the luxury tax penalty are probably out (Lakers, Clippers, Nets, Heat, Knicks, Wizards, Bulls, Thunder, Raptors). We weren't going to take back equivalent salary. Teams that are keeping cap space clear for Howard are out (Houston, Dallas, Atlanta). That's a third of the league right there. Detroit was interested but targeted Josh Smith instead. Golden State targeted Igoudala. San Antonio came within a few missed shots of winning the Finals and wanted to bring their team back intact. Now we're up to half the league. But frankly, I still don't put much weight in what others teams did or didn't do. Did you think he was worth $44 million?
Section 101
All-Star
I think $44 with bonuses making it likely to be $48 is overpaying. Now that also depends on what other moves are/will be made for how it all turns out. But I think it's very telling that he signed with NO as a 6th man to play mostly SF/SG. Holiday will be getting the majority of minutes at PG. I think everyone here jumped the gun after McLemore was drafted and assumed Evans was going to play PG. That clearly wasn't what the FO was thinking. Who knows what was said in their meeting with Evans, but I think he told them he wanted to play PG/SG and not SF so they went another direction.
Oh come on man, now you're just hedging.
The reported deal is $44M for four years. Are you in or out?You get attention from free agents in a market like sac if you win and even then it's a stretch. I think we're overemphasizing how much players/agents care about how nice the guys are or how hard they work.
Section 101
All-Star
Oh come on man, now you're just hedging.
It's been reported at 4 years $44 with bonuses to make it $48. Not hedging anything, just waiting to see how it all plays out.
OptimusRhyme
Jive Turkey
so when are we signing sam young?
HereWeBoogie
Hall of Famer
omg please no, he was a freaking nightmare on the court for the Pacers in the playoffs.
OptimusRhyme
Jive Turkey
it was sarcasm. lol
Does the name Vlade Divac ring any bells? He didn't come here because of all our trophies...
No he came because we paid more than anyone else and because we were in the process of putting together a good young team. Are you suggesting he came because we had nice hard working guys? Because that wasn't the driving point at the time and was my point about team construction moving forward. Sorry, maybe I didn't get your point. Its been a long day
Chupacabra
Starter
This team is one nice trade away from me feeling good about it. Wouldn't everyone else agree? One trade that addresses an obvious need and improves the team. I just don't think there's anyway that this is our roster after the trade deadline.
Mass
Starter
Exactly, I feel the same way. If we are able to land a good SF for a couple of our redundant pieces, I'd be pretty happy with our offseason. Best case scenario would be a defensive big (Asik) and a SF (Deng), but I'd be ok even with just one of these two.
M_Barragan
Bench
Agreed,
A good move to shore up the SF position and I can see this team winning another 7-10 games with the progress of our players and the impact of our coach on them.
We would still be in the Lotto but pick 9-12 can still land us one heck of a player as our third cog if MCM pans out for us.
A good move to shore up the SF position and I can see this team winning another 7-10 games with the progress of our players and the impact of our coach on them.
We would still be in the Lotto but pick 9-12 can still land us one heck of a player as our third cog if MCM pans out for us.
Chupacabra
Starter
I'm not saying we'll be any good after one good trade. I'm just saying one good trade that addresses a weakness and ill feel fine about our FO. They have until the all star break to make that happen. Lots of time left folks.
Section 101
All-Star
Actually, the proximity to LA was a big reason. I believe his wife was trying to be an actress or something so it was only a 45 min flight.
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