Front office focus...

[VF21]

There seem to be some fairly well defined differences of opinion about what priority the front office should attach to potential actions. So, of course, it calls for a poll...

 

[Kingsguy881]

I don't like the idea of giving up Noc while Garcia is on the shelf, but send KT packing for someone, anyone that is actually tall enough for the position.

 

[TTown Kings]

it's super early in the season. got a lot of time till KMart and Garcia get back and till the trade deadline approaches. patience is a virtue...

 

[ElRey]

Our frontline is paper thin as it is already. If you get a chance to trade for quality defensive big, then you go for it. How else are you going to get this mythical shotblocker we've all wanted???

Free agency? good luck
Draft? doesn't look like we getting a high lottery pick this year. Perhaps trade one of our players to move up to get Ed Davis, Favors, Aldrich?

 

[bajaden]

I'll briefly repeat what I just said in another thread. In short, we have a huge hole at the backup center position. If anything happens to either one of our bigs, were in serious trouble. Especialy if either of them goes down for any length of time. Not only would we not have a starter, we wouldn't have a backup or a starter.

I'm sure the front office is aware that we're one injury to a big from disastor. Now we can sit on our hands and believe that everything is just hunky dory, but thats living in a dream world. We need a backup center. And we need a quality backup center. he doesn't need to be an all star, but he needs to be a quality player. Okafor and Dalembert both fall into that catagory. Injury to either Thompson or Hawes is my biggest worry.

 

[Chupacabra]

I dont see how trading KT for a defensive center would disrupt the team chemistry. Its not like Hawes is doing a hell of alot right now. I think if we get a shotblocker RIGHT NOW...we're a playoff team. I like the dalembert deal even more than the Okafor deal because of how short Dalemberts contract is. Dalembert is also a bigger dude. You also dont have to worry about getting Dalembert touches. He seems pretty content with picking up the scraps on offense.

 

[VF21]

I'll briefly repeat what I just said in another thread. In short, we have a huge hole at the backup center position. If anything happens to either one of our bigs, were in serious trouble. Especialy if either of them goes down for any length of time. Not only would we not have a starter, we wouldn't have a backup or a starter.

I'm sure the front office is aware that we're one injury to a big from disastor. Now we can sit on our hands and believe that everything is just hunky dory, but thats living in a dream world. We need a backup center. And we need a quality backup center. he doesn't need to be an all star, but he needs to be a quality player. Okafor and Dalembert both fall into that catagory. Injury to either Thompson or Hawes is my biggest worry.

I'm crying foul on this... No one that I know of is saying things are "hunky dory." And I don't think anyone is denying the obvious - that we do need a backup center. But what I think you're not acknowledging is the other side of the coin...

Right now, for the first time in what seems like forever, there is good chemistry on the Kings. There is a buzz around town that hasn't been here for a very long time. There are people actually starting to pony up money to go to games. And you know? Most of them don't give a rat's patoot about the long-range plans and goals of the team. If they attend a game, it's not to look to the future. It's to garner some entertainment and enjoyment right now. And that is just as critical to the future of this franchise, especially with the new emphasis on the arena, as any shotblocker you could possibly add to the roster.

My contention is that all this trade stuff is extremely premature. Cisco is out; Martin is out. When they get back and actually play is the time to assess what will work the best going forward. Will Greene pan out or flunk out? We don't know right now...

Sorry, but I think there's a time when you have to live for the moment and let the future be in the future. And yes, I'm fully aware I'm probably going to be totally ripped asunder over those beliefs. No problem. It won't be the first time.

 

[VF21]

I dont see how trading KT for a defensive center would disrupt the team chemistry. Its not like Hawes is doing a hell of alot right now. I think if we get a shotblocker RIGHT NOW...we're a playoff team. I like the dalembert deal even more than the Okafor deal because of how short Dalemberts contract is. Dalembert is also a bigger dude. You also dont have to worry about getting Dalembert touches. He seems pretty content with picking up the scraps on offense.

I'm not referring to Thomas for Dalembert. I'm actually referring to the idea of moving Nocioni as part of the deal. Sorry if I wasn't clear.

 

[ParniValjak]

The poll is very subjective.

I personally woudl like to see us use KT's expiring packaged with some other assets to get us the player that would make us better. Whether thats a shotblocker, a better PG or a starting quality SF I am not really fussed. As long as its an upgrade in talent. Thats all that matters at the moment.

If this poll is specific to the Okafor rumour then yes I would use KT's expiring to get him.

 

[Jechtsphere]

Trading KT for a shot blocker was never the sole reason, we wanted someone who could rebound, block shots and most importantly to me anyway someone who can defend in the paint and it would be nice to have more than two decent bigs, like baja said one goes down and we're screwed.

As for chemistry the wins are great and removing Noc from the team isn't all of a sudden gonna crush this team, to me if we can fill a hole then we should do it.

Reguardless the team is gonna grow together, if we trade for others then they will grow with the team as well...I don't see why we can't trade some pieces and have a team that grows and continues to develop chemistry.

 

[VF21]

Actually the poll is more relative to the KT for Dalembert, with Nocioni and Gibbens thrown in, discussions. It's an outshoot from at least two other discussions currently underway.

 

[allrightythen]

I voted for the first one (getting the shotblocker), but I'm not certain the first 2 are mutually exclusive. I would hope that the coaching staff and front office would work together on personnel decisions so as to maintain(or improve) team chemistry. Of course that is probably easier talked about than actually accomplished.

 

[NME]

Neither. I was counting on one more year of serious losing and another high draft pick before building back up, so I consider this all showcasing of guys like Beno and Noc to move them for expirings and picks.

 

[CBO]

Don't Know

Well I'm stumped.

VF is right about the chemistry issue as well as seeing what we have when Cisco and Kevin come back.

But, we absolutely need another BIG. IT seems that there are possible opportunities to get one RIGHT NOW.

In an ideal world, we could wait for half or more of the season to pass and then decide to pull that trigger. Unfortunately, I'm not so sure these deals will still be available at that time.

How about, if it's trading KT/May for a BIG? I'd vote for that.

Argh!

 

[sidney]

I'm not referring to Thomas for Dalembert. I'm actually referring to the idea of moving Nocioni as part of the deal. Sorry if I wasn't clear.

well...if it was KT for Dalembert or KT for Okafor would for be for it? No Nocioni involved.

 

[VF21]

well...if it was KT for Dalembert or KT for Okafor would for be for it? No Nocioni involved.

KT for Dalembert alone? Most likely no, since there's a lot of chatter about just how poor a player and teammate Dalembert actually is. KT for Okafor? No because I don't like the idea of Okafor's contract - both moneywise AND length.

It's only November. I think people are going to be hearing a lot of trade chatter about this and I firmly believe Petrie may be able to broker a pretty good deal close to the trade deadline.

 

[Rookie]

Chemistry is very hard to come by.

You can get the top notch players together and have them compete, but if they don't have chemistry they can only get BRONZE.

 

[Kingster]

I expect Petrie is going to go where the value is. If he thinks he can get more for Thomas in FA, he goes that way. If he just wants to use the FA money, he goes that way. If he thinks someone is giving him a deal on Noc or Martin, he goes another way. In other words, it all depends....

 

[rainmaker]

At this point, if we can get Salembert or another shot blocking big for KT's expiring then I say we do it. As for including Noc or others in a deal, I want to hold off for now, unless an opportunity comes along which I haven't seen yet.

Point being, IMO, we can trade KT now, hopefully for a quality big, without disrupting our chemistry. If we continue to play well, our guys will increase their potential value. But we need another big, and we need that big ASAP. I just hope we can do it without screwing up a good thing.

 

[Kingsguy881]

I'm crying foul on this... No one that I know of is saying things are "hunky dory." And I don't think anyone is denying the obvious - that we do need a backup center. But what I think you're not acknowledging is the other side of the coin...

Right now, for the first time in what seems like forever, there is good chemistry on the Kings. There is a buzz around town that hasn't been here for a very long time. There are people actually starting to pony up money to go to games. And you know? Most of them don't give a rat's patoot about the long-range plans and goals of the team. If they attend a game, it's not to look to the future. It's to garner some entertainment and enjoyment right now. And that is just as critical to the future of this franchise, especially with the new emphasis on the arena, as any shotblocker you could possibly add to the roster.

My contention is that all this trade stuff is extremely premature. Cisco is out; Martin is out. When they get back and actually play is the time to assess what will work the best going forward. Will Greene pan out or flunk out? We don't know right now...

Sorry, but I think there's a time when you have to live for the moment and let the future be in the future. And yes, I'm fully aware I'm probably going to be totally ripped asunder over those beliefs. No problem. It won't be the first time.

The chemistry has been created by the coaching staff. If you think trading Nocioni will make JT, Donte and Reke stop hanging out and ustreaming then I have a bridge, quite lovely......

The bottom line is they have a good team, Noc or no Noc. You want them to have the best possible squad to put on the court, and if Westphal has made KT believe and know his role, why couldn't he get Dalembert, a little more willing participant, to know and accept his role with the team?

 

[Kingsguy881]

KT for Dalembert alone? Most likely no, since there's a lot of chatter about just how poor a player and teammate Dalembert actually is. KT for Okafor? No because I don't like the idea of Okafor's contract - both moneywise AND length.

It's only November. I think people are going to be hearing a lot of trade chatter about this and I firmly believe Petrie may be able to broker a pretty good deal close to the trade deadline.

However.....I wholeheartedly agree with this statement. I think by the end of this year there will only be one or two voices calling Petrie an idiot and saying they can do better.

 

[DocHolliday]

I'll briefly repeat what I just said in another thread. In short, we have a huge hole at the backup center position. If anything happens to either one of our bigs, were in serious trouble. Especialy if either of them goes down for any length of time. Not only would we not have a starter, we wouldn't have a backup or a starter.

I'm sure the front office is aware that we're one injury to a big from disastor. Now we can sit on our hands and believe that everything is just hunky dory, but thats living in a dream world. We need a backup center. And we need a quality backup center. he doesn't need to be an all star, but he needs to be a quality player. Okafor and Dalembert both fall into that catagory. Injury to either Thompson or Hawes is my biggest worry.

Dalembert and Okafur do NOT fall into that category. Back up Centers do NOT make 12 million a year. Not on any team, not even a championship team. That's a starting Centers Salary, and a VERY good one by the way. Okafur, nor Dalembert are "special" players. Dalembert is a career 8 and 8 guy. His best year was 07-08. Okafur is just a tad better.

People want to complain about Noc's contract?? I'll gladly pay 6-8 million a year for what he brings. Not 12 million a year for one undersized guy that is "ok", or 12 million for a whiny, inconsistant malcontent.

 

[Heuge]

When our shedule gets tough, this gerat chemistry stuff will be silenced a hair, I assume.

Make a wise deal Geoff, if you still know how.

 

[VF21]

When our shedule gets tough, this gerat chemistry stuff will be silenced a hair, I assume.

Make a wise deal Geoff, if you still know how.

I think he will, in fact, make a wise deal. I don't think he's feeling the need to jump on the first couple of deals that come around.

 

[SkinnerBox]

Couldn't vote because of the "and whoever else it takes" part. I think that makes this a false dichotomy. I'm for trading KT and one of our wing players if necessary (let's face it, probably Nocioni) to get the right young talent to complement our front line. But only if the deal is right. I think the Okafor and Dalembert trades were both probably worth doing.

I don't want to trade KT and Kevin to get Dampier, though, as the option provided would imply.

 

[fnordius]

I said to go for the shotblocker, but that's assuming a good trade. Okafor I'd probably take. Dalembert, hmmm...

I don't think that such a trade need harm chemistry at all, I think it would help it. Having a better designed team helps morale.

 

[Prince_XY]

We don't even know which of the many factors brought this incredibly nice chemistry. Let us not face our back to that glaring need for a defensive minded center ( just because we're so afraid this "chemistry" might be lost along the way of acquiring one )

Bajaden is right - one of Hawes and Thomspon goes down and we're screwed down big time. Besides, the way Hawes is playing this season, it looks like it will become apparent that the Kid is a natural softie. IMO, we have to strengthen that weakest link in the team ASAP.

 

[hrdboild]

Well as far as KT is concerned, he's gone at the end of the year anyway. Cap space is important but not more important than the players it represents. If you can flip his contract for the right player than you do it.

I'm a little split on Nocioni at this point. He's got one of those rare front loaded contracts and a team option on the third year, so the contract isn't a killer. And he performs a valuable role on a winning basketball team. Looking back at four straight wins I'm hesitant to break up the winning chemistry too, but if you look forward you see Garcia and Martin coming back and stealing minutes at the wing positions. Hopefully Casspi and Greene continue to get better and earn themselves more minutes too. The way those two are playing right now, Nocioni looks a little more expendable. Especially if he can help bring in frontcourt help.

From a salary standpoint, having Udrih, Garcia, and Nocioni signed to mid-level deals is still a salary cap problem even if they're playing up to their potential. Mid-level players are nice to tack on to a winning team, but if you're trying to build something they just prevent you from signing better players. What intrigued me about the Bee article mentioning the Dalembert trade was the suggestion that Petrie is looking for contracts that expire in 2011 not 2010. Dalembert represents a huge chunk of capspace in 2011. I've been saying for awhile now that the way to take advantage of this 2010 Lebron/Wade/Bosh bonanza is to take on contracts other teams will do anything to unload (those that go past 2010) and corner the market on a different free agent class. I wonder if Petrie already has someone in mind for 2011. Oden would be a restricted free agent that year unless Portland coughs up an extension.

Normally I would agree that it's way too early to break up what looks like a good thing. Especially considering the breath of fresh air this surprisingly fun team is blowing through the fan community. But there's also a real need to strike while the iron is hot if you want to get anything done. Nocioni's contract is going to be a problem in the future. He is a valuable player, but on a team with two talented SFs waiting in the wings and another signed to a mid-level deal for the next four years? Somethings gotta give there. If teams are interested in Nocioni right now as possibly the last piece to get them a championship, then we can use that to improve our situation in the future.

 

[CruzDude]

The current Kings makeup, coaches and players, is so brand new and untested, it is WAY too soon to discuss trades even for an apparent hole at the 5. Everyone is just starting to learn their roles and how they fit with others. Hawes getting pushed too far down low by most other centers, Evans TO's, JT's fouling, etc., are all correctable. It just takes time.

No one but no one expected them to be 5-5 at the start of the season. Give it time. They are just beginning to learn the team. The Bulls game was the first against a really good defensive team that took away JT from most everything. Swarming defenses played well are hard for the really good teams to deal with much less the kids and new coaches the Kings have.

Give it another 10-15 games after both Kevin and Cisco are back in the mix. A lot of teams are playing small this year and just maybe we only need to start one of Hawes or JT for those games. Dallas has one major big, Dampier, and I think he is out or likely to be out Friday. THey will play small ball with Nowitzki playing the 3/4, a good match for Greene.

 

[Kings Faithful]

The current Kings makeup, coaches and players, is so brand new and untested, it is WAY too soon to discuss trades even for an apparent hole at the 5. Everyone is just starting to learn their roles and how they fit with others. Hawes getting pushed too far down low by most other centers, Evans TO's, JT's fouling, etc., are all correctable. It just takes time.

No one but no one expected them to be 5-5 at the start of the season. Give it time. They are just beginning to learn the team. The Bulls game was the first against a really good defensive team that took away JT from most everything. Swarming defenses played well are hard for the really good teams to deal with much less the kids and new coaches the Kings have.

Give it another 10-15 games after both Kevin and Cisco are back in the mix. A lot of teams are playing small this year and just maybe we only need to start one of Hawes or JT for those games. Dallas has one major big, Dampier, and I think he is out or likely to be out Friday. THey will play small ball with Nowitzki playing the 3/4, a good match for Greene.

More like a good match for Greene to get destroyed... Nowitzki would eat Donte for breakfast.