Free Agent Point Guards.
- Thread starter MassachusettsKingsFan
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Am I only fan of Beno??
I love him, he's been quite good. And he also got familar with the coach and the players of Kings. Why we should bring another PG, and spend more time to put together?
I'd say full MLE to Beno. I think he's worth that. And IMHO if we move Artest, Udrih will be more shining. Acutally I worry about missing him because of money. Apparently Clippers pursue him, and they can give him more money.
What is the problem to have Beno as our starting PG?
Please somebody explain to me.
I love him, he's been quite good. And he also got familar with the coach and the players of Kings. Why we should bring another PG, and spend more time to put together?
I'd say full MLE to Beno. I think he's worth that. And IMHO if we move Artest, Udrih will be more shining. Acutally I worry about missing him because of money. Apparently Clippers pursue him, and they can give him more money.
What is the problem to have Beno as our starting PG?
Please somebody explain to me.
Though I don't want to evaluate a PG only by his A/T ratio, I summed up the A/T ratio of some PGs in the league, including most PGs and notable backups.
Chris Paul 6.14
Jose Caleron 5.83
Brevin Knight 4.4
Chauncey Billups 4.15
Jason Kidd 3.78
Antonio Daniels 3.69
Rajon Rondo, 3.66
T.J. Ford 3.3
Jason Williams 3.28
Deron Williams 3.24
Steve Nash 3.25
Earl Watson 3.09
Kirk Hinrich 2.87
Jason Terry 2.85
Andre Miller 2.74
Raymond Felton 2.74
Baron Davis 2.69
Derek Fisher 2.6
Allen Iverson 2.57
Jamaal Tinsley 2.52
Mike Conley 2.47
Rafer Alston 2.41
Devin Harris 2.40
Mo Williams 2.28
Jameer Nelson 2.24
Randy Foye 2.10
Tony Parker 2.06
Beno Udrih 1.89
Louis Williams 1.71
Delonte West 1.69
Mike Bibby 1.69
Gilbert Arenas 1.38
Carlos Arroyo 1.33
As you said, Udrih has relatively bad ratio, but in terms of A/T ratio he's better than Mike Bibby and Delonte West, all of whom are starting PGs. Udrih was not the worst starting PG in the last season in A/T ratio.
And I don't think bad A/T ratio always means a bad PG. And in terms of A/T ratio, who do you want a new Kings PG? Is there any available one?
Of course, I agree with your point. A starting PG must commit turnovers as less as possible. But you also have to consider other things such as leading, creativity, shooting, defense, BQ, decision making, chemistry with other teammates and so on.
I just don't know whether we have any alternative for Udrih.
We failed to draft young PGs, and have only MLE. And agent of Udrih said he can play for Kings for full MLE. Of course we can trade Artest or Salmons to get other PGs, but I doubt anyone available is better than Udrih.
I don't mean Udrih is perfect fit for Kings. But I think he did well, and expect he can do better. And we had no choice except him.
Chris Paul 6.14
Jose Caleron 5.83
Brevin Knight 4.4
Chauncey Billups 4.15
Jason Kidd 3.78
Antonio Daniels 3.69
Rajon Rondo, 3.66
T.J. Ford 3.3
Jason Williams 3.28
Deron Williams 3.24
Steve Nash 3.25
Earl Watson 3.09
Kirk Hinrich 2.87
Jason Terry 2.85
Andre Miller 2.74
Raymond Felton 2.74
Baron Davis 2.69
Derek Fisher 2.6
Allen Iverson 2.57
Jamaal Tinsley 2.52
Mike Conley 2.47
Rafer Alston 2.41
Devin Harris 2.40
Mo Williams 2.28
Jameer Nelson 2.24
Randy Foye 2.10
Tony Parker 2.06
Beno Udrih 1.89
Louis Williams 1.71
Delonte West 1.69
Mike Bibby 1.69
Gilbert Arenas 1.38
Carlos Arroyo 1.33
As you said, Udrih has relatively bad ratio, but in terms of A/T ratio he's better than Mike Bibby and Delonte West, all of whom are starting PGs. Udrih was not the worst starting PG in the last season in A/T ratio.
And I don't think bad A/T ratio always means a bad PG. And in terms of A/T ratio, who do you want a new Kings PG? Is there any available one?
Of course, I agree with your point. A starting PG must commit turnovers as less as possible. But you also have to consider other things such as leading, creativity, shooting, defense, BQ, decision making, chemistry with other teammates and so on.
I just don't know whether we have any alternative for Udrih.
We failed to draft young PGs, and have only MLE. And agent of Udrih said he can play for Kings for full MLE. Of course we can trade Artest or Salmons to get other PGs, but I doubt anyone available is better than Udrih.
I don't mean Udrih is perfect fit for Kings. But I think he did well, and expect he can do better. And we had no choice except him.
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and remember Udrih came into his role on the fly last year with no Kings training camp, having to adjust to players he didn't know, and an unfamiliar system under first year NBA head coach Theus. The job Beno ended up doing was damn remarkable I'd say. Plus, virtually no one ever talks about his defense which was decent or better than average in the eyes of many. He usually stays in front of his man with excellent lateral movement and keeps his arms, hands out for numerous deflections - something Mike Bibby was notoriously weak across the board on. Beno Udrih was well coached before he got to Sac by Coach Pop of the Spurs!
It wasn't like he dropped in mid-season. He got here early in the year, at a time the whole team was figuring itself out. Everyone other than Cisco, was unfamiliar with Theus. His defense is overrated; we were playing a lot of zone. What he did do very well was fighting through screens. I also don't understand the "true" pg label he's been given. According to what? Look at his numbers, look at the way he plays. His best asset is his ability to score. He has no glaring flaws, but he also isn't great at anything.
I'm not adverse to resigning him so long as we're keeping the years to a minimum.
I'm not adverse to resigning him so long as we're keeping the years to a minimum.
There are five teams that now have at least 1 point guard too many. The Kings could trade for one of these and fill their need for starting PG, even if Beno goes elsewhere.
Seattle just drafted Westbrook, and Durant is their shooting guard, so Earl Watson and or Luke Ridnour are on the block (Along with Chris Wilcox?).
Charlotte just drafted DJ Augustin after it was known that they were shopping Raymond Felton.
Chicago drafted Derrick Rose, making Kirk Heinrick/Chris Duhon available.
Indiana just traded for TJ ford and have been less than enthusiastic with Jamaal Tinsley lately.
Also, of course, Memphis has 4 starting quality PGs in Lowry, Conley, Mayo, and Crittenton with no servicable big men (Kwame Brown? Darko Milicic?)
Seattle just drafted Westbrook, and Durant is their shooting guard, so Earl Watson and or Luke Ridnour are on the block (Along with Chris Wilcox?).
Charlotte just drafted DJ Augustin after it was known that they were shopping Raymond Felton.
Chicago drafted Derrick Rose, making Kirk Heinrick/Chris Duhon available.
Indiana just traded for TJ ford and have been less than enthusiastic with Jamaal Tinsley lately.
Also, of course, Memphis has 4 starting quality PGs in Lowry, Conley, Mayo, and Crittenton with no servicable big men (Kwame Brown? Darko Milicic?)
We really live in a disposable society, don't we? One and done. If the guy has a bad game, get rid of him. Sometimes I don't know what some of you are thinking. Lets trade Cisco. Get rid of Beno. Lets sign some other teams bench player.
The other pasture always looks greener doesn't it? Beno is still a very young player who got his first chance to start last year. He was starting on a team with a new coach and a constantly changing lineup. For a team to win. Eventually you have to have a set lineup and then let them play together for a while. It also helps to have the same coach so the players at least know whats expected of them. This is especially true with a young team, which the Kings are going to be.
You can throw together a group, made of experienced players, like the Celtics did and be sucessful, but only if its the right mix. There is no subsitute for playing together. Obviously you need talented players. I have no idea whether Beno will resign with us, but if possible, I say resign him. Lets see what he can do in his second year. He's already familiar with the team and most of its players. Sign him to a four yr deal, but with the last two years the teams option.
The other pasture always looks greener doesn't it? Beno is still a very young player who got his first chance to start last year. He was starting on a team with a new coach and a constantly changing lineup. For a team to win. Eventually you have to have a set lineup and then let them play together for a while. It also helps to have the same coach so the players at least know whats expected of them. This is especially true with a young team, which the Kings are going to be.
You can throw together a group, made of experienced players, like the Celtics did and be sucessful, but only if its the right mix. There is no subsitute for playing together. Obviously you need talented players. I have no idea whether Beno will resign with us, but if possible, I say resign him. Lets see what he can do in his second year. He's already familiar with the team and most of its players. Sign him to a four yr deal, but with the last two years the teams option.
The problem with Beno is that he's solid, but is he really a starting point guard on a very good team? Then you have to ask yourself if a backup PG is worth the mid-level.
Nothing against Beno, but I'm kind of hoping some other team overpays him so Geoff is forced to address the position and gamble a little. Louis Williams would be a gamble that might really pay off, Mo Williams is supposedly available and he's the second coming of Mike Bibby (both good and bad).... it's going to be tricky with so many teams looking for PGs and a dearth of good ones, but I'm just not sure that Beno is the long term solution.
Nothing against Beno, but I'm kind of hoping some other team overpays him so Geoff is forced to address the position and gamble a little. Louis Williams would be a gamble that might really pay off, Mo Williams is supposedly available and he's the second coming of Mike Bibby (both good and bad).... it's going to be tricky with so many teams looking for PGs and a dearth of good ones, but I'm just not sure that Beno is the long term solution.
I liek Beno -- think not only is he solid and has good size, but he's got some competitiveness and leadership in him. Would not mind at all seeing him back to hold down the fort. Only thing with Beno that bothers me is that we will likely have to clutter our cap to retain him. If there was a way around that problem, I'd say sure, bring him back. Only Louis Williams of the attainable guys might be a real step up.
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I pretty much agree. I think he is good enough for the next year or two and think he could be better with more time with the same coach and team (including a training camp). I am not as worried about the cap at this point. He's good enough to be traded at MLE-type $$$, I would think.
I really don't always think the grass is greener elsewhere, especially at the NBA level.
I really don't always think the grass is greener elsewhere, especially at the NBA level.
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it really depends... beno isnt a bad player but is he or should he be considered part of the teams rebuilding process? as a back up? hell yeah... he'd be great. but as our starting pg? then we would have to find a back up for our starting back up pg... we know whos better than beno, but whos worse and do we really want a pg worse than our starting back up pg as his back up?
if we trade for a real starting pg like mo williams or hinrich then beno would be great to have for cheap like he was this past season when we got him. if bibby hadnt been hurt having beno would have been the difference maker on this team and we could have been a playoff team.... if our pf position didnt suck so much.
if we trade for a real starting pg like mo williams or hinrich then beno would be great to have for cheap like he was this past season when we got him. if bibby hadnt been hurt having beno would have been the difference maker on this team and we could have been a playoff team.... if our pf position didnt suck so much.
Beno or Louis Williams are the two we should be targeting. Benos still young and I think we should be looking at him as a long term PG option. Even if he starts now and is moved to the bench in a cuple years, say when Singletary is ready to take over or when we get our real future starting PG. Its going to be nice to have Benos chemistry if we keep him around.
Louis Williams is a viable option as a slashing scoring guard with top notch athetlicism--but it's clear that the Sixers see him as their heir apparent to AI. We have a better chance of landing failed AI clone Willie Green in a S&T rather than landing Williams in free agency.
I've always liked Keyon Dooling as a defensive backup, and even moreso if we do end up keeping Udrih because both are absolute foils of each other (sound play, passing vs. athleticism and defense). Yes, while Udrih doesn't have that wow factor in him, he's a heady player and I've gained more appreciation in his game--he's a really good mid-range shooter and very solid, although not blowing away, in other areas. This PG FA crop doesn't look excellent so if we can keep Udrih for a few more years at a reasonable price, might as well do it.
I've always liked Keyon Dooling as a defensive backup, and even moreso if we do end up keeping Udrih because both are absolute foils of each other (sound play, passing vs. athleticism and defense). Yes, while Udrih doesn't have that wow factor in him, he's a heady player and I've gained more appreciation in his game--he's a really good mid-range shooter and very solid, although not blowing away, in other areas. This PG FA crop doesn't look excellent so if we can keep Udrih for a few more years at a reasonable price, might as well do it.
Yeah, I don't think anyone's opposed to re-signing Beno if the price is right. It's the recent talk by his agent (which may very well be a smokescreen) and the reported interest by the Clippers that has some worried. Now, we may disagree what a "reasonable price" but if the Clips were offereing the whole MLE for five years, but we could land a Duhon type for just two years, $5 million or so, or could get a decent enough starter in a trade for Ron, Brad, and/or Mikki, then bye bye Beno.
Scott Howard Cooper says JWill might be making a return: http://www.sacbee.com/static/weblogs/sports/kings/archives/013595.html#more
What a terrible list. The only guys on there I would even consider are Udrih and Dooling, and I would set my limit at 3 years. Maybe 2 years if they want more money so they don't interfere with the 2010 free agency plans. Neither guy is somebody you want to break the bank for. If they want too much money, I'd take my chances with whoever shows up in pre-season/summer league and wait for another chance next season.
I get bad vibes with Telfair due to his numerous run ins with the law, several of them potential felonies involving guns. His cousin is that wonderful role model Stephon Marbury. Telfair has "potential" NBA talent but, at 22 he's on the fast track to oblivion. The Blazers no doubt see him as a bust since they made him a 13th overall draft pick.