Section 101
All-Star
Cash Considerations.
Following Potential *2020* Draftees
- Thread starter Ozymandias
- Start date
bajaden
Hall of Famer
Well, based on this past season most scouts would say he looks like crap. But no, not Joseph. Joseph has little to no court vision. He can get where he wants on the court, but doesn't have a clue what to do when gets where he's going. For positives on Anthony I have to go back to his high school days, and as I previously stated, based on that, most so called experts had him competing for the 1st pick in the draft. And then he got to college, and everything went to hell.
There's no denying that North Carolina was a very bad team, and perhaps he took it upon himself to try and carry the team, or maybe they asked him to. But I hate making excuses for a player. He's not the first talented player to play on a bad team. One could argue that Trey Young was on a less than stellar team, but he found a way to make that team better, and still elevate his own game. So Anthony is the mystery man for me. You draft him and you might be making a huge mistake, or, you might have a future all star on your hands. He scares me, and entices me at the same time
bajaden
Hall of Famer
bajaden
Hall of Famer
I don't have a crystal ball, but the Kings have improved their player development staff, particularly with the addition of Rico Hines, who is one of the most respected trainers in the NBA. Players from all over the NBA come to his camp in the summer to work with him. He's worked with players like Kobe Bryant, Kevin Durant, Paul George, etc. So when the Kings hired him as a full time coach, that was a huge addition. My guess is, yes, they can develop him as long as they retain trainers like Hines, who has been working hard with Fox on his game, and was working with Bagley until the latest injury hit him.
kb02
All-Star
I'm aware of Hines reputation. His summer runs are at the UCLA Men's gym, which obviously has a lot of sentimental value to me. I'm skeptical, because, outside of Boogie and not since Kevin Martin, the Kings haven't really developed any players. Really hope the Kings become known as a draft and develop team. Especially with High School entrants becoming a thing now. More opps to find diamonds.
kb02
All-Star
The ability to get to where you want to is highly underappreciated. Mike Bibby had it. James Harden has it too. They look like they're moving in slow motion, but can to where they need to. Hope you're right about Anthony. The one thing that scares me is, I think he'll have problems getting to the rim--limiting his ability to pass off of drives and to score at the hoop. Maybe its just the limited amount of times that I've seen him.
bajaden
Hall of Famer
I think we have to remember that it's been like a revolving door for management and coaching in Sacramento for the last 12 years or so, and the current development staff isn't responsible for past errors. The Kings have improved their development staff over the last two years, so they deserve the chance and time to show results. As I'm sure you know, player development is sometimes a slow process, especially at the beginning, where things can go back to fundamentals. It can be difficult to break old habits and change muscle memory, but if the player is dedicated and motivated, it will happen.
Unfortunately we live in an instant gratification society that wants instant results. To be fair, I can't blame them after all these years of waiting. I tend to get a bit testy myself at times. As important as player development is, I think choosing the type of player that fits your team is equally important. If you take a look at the Raptors for one, they never draft a player that can't play defense. They value that trait over everything else. As I said earlier, if your trying to create a fast pace team, then you don't draft players that can't run.
Everyone says you always draft the best player available. But what exactly does that mean to team like the Raptors, or the Heat, or the Spurs etc.? Don't get me wrong, if a transformative player is sitting there, you take him, at worse he's an asset, but in a draft like this one, I think you pick a player that best fits the culture and style of your team. Of course in the Kings case, I'm not quite sure what that is.
Groovygreg
Starter
In the first round, the Kings need to pick a player who has is more of a known commodity rather than “swinging for the fences” as the saying goes. I keep seeing mock drafts with Sacramento selecting Florida State’s Patrick Williams at #12. A 19 year-old who has a “raw” offensive game sounds like too much of a gamble for my liking. These “projects” never seem to burgeon into anything worthwhile under the tutelage of this franchise. Waiting until the 2nd round to take a few fliers isn’t a bad idea.
Yeah I saw the Patrick Williams picks as well and he's very underwhelming if you ask me. Solid defender, no doubt. I just don't watch the Kings and think man we'd be a playoff team if we just had a better defensive wing out there.
I agree with you on Patrick Williams - he's a guy where I just don't quite see what everybody is projecting. Sure, he could turn out great, but that's not a gamble I'm inclined to make.
On the principle of playing it safe rather than swinging for the fences, I have to disagree for this Kings team in this draft. As far as this draft goes, I don't think that at #12 there is going to be much in the way of "high floor" safe players. I would say that the players with the highest floors that are likely to be available at our pick (almost certainly not all of them will be available) are going to be Okoro, Vassell, and Anthony, who I would all peg as having a floor as rotation players. But when I consider that in the long run I'm not all that confident that Okoro and Vassell will be better than Kent Bazemore, or that Anthony will be better than Cory Joseph I begin to wonder how much they're going to help us. Yes, as rotation players they would be cheaper for the next four years (how much of those four years are growing pains years is unclear) but that's not the kind of player that is going to put any team over the top, much less the Kings as constructed.
Sure, we could wait for the second round to swing for the fences, but the number of home runs in the second round is low. In the 15 years from 2000-2014 there were 14 All-Stars selected in the second round, slightly less than 1 per year. That would suggest that we have at best a 1 in 10 shot of really nailing it i the seonc round this year with our three picks. Fine, we can do that, but it doesn't preclude also taking a swing with #12.
If the safe bets at #12 aren't likely to be better than guys we can typically pick up as free agents or in give-up-little trades, then I don't see the harm in passing one of those guys by to take a swing on a player who, if they develop, is the kind of guy we could only ever get to come to Sacramento if we drafted him. People seem to be settling in to the idea that this team is rebuilding again. And in a rebuild, drafting a rotation player doesn't really get you anywhere.
SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
Patrick Williams looks likes the middle triplet of the Morris boys to me. More of a Thad Young type who is probably more PF than anything else. This draft has good talent in it, or rather it's deep in players that shouldn't suck but it's a flawed draft for sure. Okoro is interesting, but he is going to have to develop out of the college athletic small ball PF stereotype. He could use DaQuan Jeffries as a benchmark in terms of development. Maybe he could be the next Corey Maggette? He'll have to develop though.
SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
What does known commodity mean though? I'd say I can look at Isaiah Stewart for example and say the kid has a position and skill (most reliable commodities there is) but he also has shown glimpses of more. There's a perfect middle ground in someone like him IMO. He's a little like Cuz both postively and negatively (a bit ground bound, great attitude though) but while he's not as dynamic in isolation, he brings that same brute force not only offensively but defensively as well. I'd take someone like this busting 10 straight times in a draft like this over someone who might have a better shot at sticking the NBA with an 8th man in the rotation ceiling just because they aren't as "raw". He also brings physical toughness the team lost with Cuz being traded that they've never regained. If that shot develops he and Bagley could be perfect compliments to one another.
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bajaden
Hall of Famer
I'm not a big Williams fan. Way too raw for me. He shows promise of being a good defender, but his offensive side of the ball is what concerns me. My first choice is still Vassell, but my 2nd is Bey. He may or may not ever be a starter, but I like his progression from his freshman year to his sophmore year. He plays under Jay Wright, which is a big plus. He can shoot and he can defend, and he's 6'8", so he legit size for the SF spot. Yeah, he has some areas that need tightening up, but overall, he's one of the most ready to play players in this draft.
If you want a freak athlete to develop then go with Cassius Stanley. Of course he's a likely 2nd rd pick. Or, take a gamble on the Serbian kid Pokusevski. Whats not to like about a 7 foot SF? In all honesty, the only shoot for the fences player in our draft range is probably Precious Achiuwa. Defensively he's a monster along with being an outstanding rebounder. His offensive game away from the basket is a work in progress, but when I watch him play, there's just something about him that screams future star. The only other one is probably Josh Green, who again, looks like a defensive stopper at the next level. Green didn't shoot the ball that badly, somewhere around 36% from the three, but his shot looks a bit funky to me and probably needs to be reworked.
I'm not against taking a flyer on a player, but I'd like that player to be really good at something. As for the 2nd rd, I think there will be some rotational players that emerge, maybe even a starter or two. Trick is, finding them. I would love Killian Tillie. He's lottery skilled, and when healthy, starting material. He has the complete game. He's a smart defender who is quicker laterally than you would think. Good rebounder and good three pt shooter. Excellent passer and good ball handler for a 6'10" player. Yeah, I'm biased. I want him to succeed. He's so talented and one injury after another has kept screwing up his career. Robert Woodard is another player that could end up being a solid rotational player, and lastly, so as not to bore you, Sam Merrill and Paul Reed.
I've probably spent more time this year looking at potential 2nd rd picks and mid first rd picks than ever before. Unfortunately, players that at the beginning of the year I thought would be in our draft range, played too well, and moved up out of our range. Players like Okuru and Haliburton, even Toppin. Happens every year. Oh well!
bajaden
Hall of Famer
I like Stewart quite a bit, and I think his athleticism is underrated. He has a 7'4" wingspan and a standing reach of just over 9 feet. So he plays taller than his height. What I love most about him is his motor. It's non stop. The knock on him is that he's mostly a post scorer, but he does have a nice mid-range shot that looks effortless. I can see him eventually stretching it out to beyond the three pt line. Defensively he's solid. Instinctive shot blocker, and hard to move in the post.
The only way the Kings can get him, is if he falls into the 2nd rd (unlikely), or perhaps see if Boston wants to part with one of those low 1st rd picks. I think the T Wolves have a second low 1st rd pick as well.
Groovygreg
Starter
I’m not necessarily disagreeing with you. I suppose that another way to express my point is that it might be a bit easier for the fans to accept a draftee who is solid, if not spectacular, rather than to get their hopes up about some prospect with a “huge upside” that never lives up to the hype. No matter who Sacramento gets there will be an effort by the team and a hope from the fan base that the player will develop their skill set, but those that support the Kings have been disappointed too many times by the false hopes of unrealized “potential”.
SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
If he were 21 I'd look at him as a solid pick around 20-30. But he's not. He's a one and done. This is top 10 potential not to even mention he's already physically developed at a position that still matters IMO. If he gets to the 2nd round or is attainable later in the first then this draft could end up making scouts look as stupid as last year probably will. Maybe more so.
SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
When outside of obvious top 5 range, Vlade made it a point of drafting seriously flawed players both physically and skill wise, not creating a space for them to get minutes to develop, duplicating skill and position when drafting said players expecting them to play a position they'd shown no aptitude to play to make it work (Bagley at SF anyone? Giles at C?) and sometimes drafting players stuck between those positions. I see more than a few guards and wings that fit the bill in this draft and very little chance to play unless the Kings blow it up. And then if they do they're using a draft like this to do it. There's a lot of miscalculations I'm seeing in the mocks. Luckily for us some of those mistakes are going prior to the Kings pick. If Dumars and crew are letting these mocks right now dictate who goes where and why, then I have serious doubts about the franchises ability to draft their way to success Vlade or no Vlade. This is a "weak" draft mainly because there are so many different positions represented and no consensus partly because of that. I do expect this to be a very hard draft to read but right now, I see more bigs with serious potential than anything. Hopefully teams didn't catch on to the Bol Bol blunder everybody made last year. Like last year, I think we should let our eyes to the talking on this one.
I haven't watched as much college basketball the last couple years as I used to. To be honest, I'm just sortof fatigued from the constant cycle of hope and disappointment and that 2018 draft killed most of my desire to even bother scouting prospects for the Kings for quite awhile. From what I have seen though, the guys that I'm in on this year are Onyeka Okongwu (who I got to see the most of anyone since he played for USC), Isaiah Stewart, and Patrick Williams.
Okongwu hasn't shown much of an outsider jumper which makes him a center and undersized at 6'9" but that doesn't seem to matter as much in the NBA as it used to. He's easily in my top 5 this year and probably even top 3 (though I am admittedly biased and shouldn't be trusted on SC guys). Also he'll be long gone by pick #12 so there's not much point elaborating further.
Isaiah Stewart is probably not in play at #12 but we have 3 second round picks including one in the top 5 of the second round. Buying into a pick in the mid to late 20s wouldn't be unheard of. The big thing I see with Stewart is that he's not a guy who's going to get pushed around by anyone and the Kings are perennially lacking in good old fashioned toughness. Washington was not a good team this year, in fact they were downright terrible. Their offense looked as aimless as the Kings' offense did for much of the year and that is saying something! But in the middle of that dumpster fire Stewart was putting in work on the boards and flashing a surprisingly solid outside jumper. He's a late lottery pick in my mind but I'm seeing him projected much lower for some reason. Is it the undersized center stigma again? Do people not trust him as a go-to guy because Washington lost to every decent opponent they faced? I could see him bodying up the DeAndre Aytons and Joel Embiids of the league and making them work for their points which has got to at least make him a good value in the second half of the first round I think.
With Patrick Williams, he's not the flashy "take over a game" ball handler that everyone is looking for right now nor is he a lights out shooter but he's got a well-rounded skillset. He does most of his damage offensively around the basket and his 3pt shot will need to get better for him to stick as a wing but he can put the ball on the floor then pull up and knock down the mid-range shot consistently already and that's one of the toughest skills in basketball. He's not Lonzo Ball or anything but he's a sneaky good passer off the dribble for his size and I love how he goes after the ball defensively. Now.... one of my all-time favorite players is Gerald Wallace and I tend to fall for these scrappy high-energy wing players pretty much every year. So, is he another Caron Butler or Paul George or is he the next Derrick Williams or Stanley Johnson? Heck if I know. But when people describe him as raw I think that should be put into context. He was a freshman on a top ranked team and he found a role and helped his team win every night. I don't know if that's more impressive than a super prospect who put up huge numbers dominating the ball on a terrible team, but I don't think it should be counted against him.
That's pretty much all I've got this year. I'll defer to the experts on everyone else.
Okongwu hasn't shown much of an outsider jumper which makes him a center and undersized at 6'9" but that doesn't seem to matter as much in the NBA as it used to. He's easily in my top 5 this year and probably even top 3 (though I am admittedly biased and shouldn't be trusted on SC guys). Also he'll be long gone by pick #12 so there's not much point elaborating further.
Isaiah Stewart is probably not in play at #12 but we have 3 second round picks including one in the top 5 of the second round. Buying into a pick in the mid to late 20s wouldn't be unheard of. The big thing I see with Stewart is that he's not a guy who's going to get pushed around by anyone and the Kings are perennially lacking in good old fashioned toughness. Washington was not a good team this year, in fact they were downright terrible. Their offense looked as aimless as the Kings' offense did for much of the year and that is saying something! But in the middle of that dumpster fire Stewart was putting in work on the boards and flashing a surprisingly solid outside jumper. He's a late lottery pick in my mind but I'm seeing him projected much lower for some reason. Is it the undersized center stigma again? Do people not trust him as a go-to guy because Washington lost to every decent opponent they faced? I could see him bodying up the DeAndre Aytons and Joel Embiids of the league and making them work for their points which has got to at least make him a good value in the second half of the first round I think.
With Patrick Williams, he's not the flashy "take over a game" ball handler that everyone is looking for right now nor is he a lights out shooter but he's got a well-rounded skillset. He does most of his damage offensively around the basket and his 3pt shot will need to get better for him to stick as a wing but he can put the ball on the floor then pull up and knock down the mid-range shot consistently already and that's one of the toughest skills in basketball. He's not Lonzo Ball or anything but he's a sneaky good passer off the dribble for his size and I love how he goes after the ball defensively. Now.... one of my all-time favorite players is Gerald Wallace and I tend to fall for these scrappy high-energy wing players pretty much every year. So, is he another Caron Butler or Paul George or is he the next Derrick Williams or Stanley Johnson? Heck if I know. But when people describe him as raw I think that should be put into context. He was a freshman on a top ranked team and he found a role and helped his team win every night. I don't know if that's more impressive than a super prospect who put up huge numbers dominating the ball on a terrible team, but I don't think it should be counted against him.
That's pretty much all I've got this year. I'll defer to the experts on everyone else.
Maybe not... but when I watch the Kings these days I do think to myself "this team might actually be worth watching if they had a better defensive wing out there". It's all about those lowered expectations!
If that's the reason, then it's a new standard. Look at Washington's record when Fultz was the #1 overall pick!
bajaden
Hall of Famer
Maybe not... but when I watch the Kings these days I do think to myself "this team might actually be worth watching if they had a better defensive wing out there". It's all about those lowered expectations!
I don't think it's a matter of how good Williams is or isn't, it's a matter of whether he's the best choice. I think Williams may have more potential than some that will go before him, but is that what were looking for right now. It's all in the eye of the beholder. I'm always amazed how I'll watch a player play and then hear comments from others who saw something completely different than I did. I tend to look at what a player can do, as opposed to looking for what he can't do. Is he really good at one thing, and is that enough?
It's tough with the Kings because you should be looking for a player that fits your style and culture. Can someone please tell me what the King's style is? I think Vlade was trying to develop a style of play, or an identity if you will, but Bagley getting injured totally screwed his plan. Plus some of his free agent signings didn't fit either. Who ever is running the show has to have a plan, and then he has to have enough time to install that plan. I think Vlade had enough time, but he was plagued with some bad luck as well.
Your right about the Kings needing a solid defensive wing, but that wing has to be able to contribute offensively, and how he contributes has to fit the system the team is running. So my question would be, is Williams a player that you think would be a good fit next to Fox, and, is he the best fit? Not a fair question I know since you admitted you don't watch a lot of college basketball. My answer would be maybe, and at this point in time, I don't think that's good enough.
bajaden
Hall of Famer
I'm surprised you're so high on Isaiah Stewart. He looks like exactly the type of player that has fallen out of favor in the NBA these days. I don't even think I'd select him at 35 unless a handful of other players already got selected. I just don't see what his main strength is that would keep him on the floor in the NBA. If he was as athletic and defended like Robert Williams then I could see it but he's too ground bound for that. Post scoring and being an immovable object in the paint aren't really what wins basketball games these days. It used to be and I wish they'd change the rules so we could get back to more of that but sadly it's not how the game is played anymore. I think if you select him you're going to be looking at kind of a rich man's version of Caleb Swanigan.
I don't really think that's the reason, but I can't figure it out. He was projected as a middle of the first round pick at the start of the college season and he seems to have dropped 10-15 spots on everyone's draft board despite leading all Freshmen in Win Shares this season. Beats me!
I think you're overthinking this. Stewart has translatable skills, produced against decent competition, and already has an NBA body. Is he the next superstar? No, probably not but I think it's time to give up on that whole high-ceiling thing at this point. We're not picking in the top 5 we're picking in the late lottery where you're happy if you just wind up with a guy who's going to be a regular part of your rotation. Screw swinging for the fences, I'm fine with a base hit here. Depending on what you think of Marvin Bagley, Buddy Hield and Harrison Barnes, we may be starting over and rebuilding around Fox in the near future. I just want to make sure we add a player who's still going to be with the team in 4 years.
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I've done no systematic overview of everyone this year, these are just some guys who stood out to me as NBA players. I don't even know that Williams will be available at the #12 pick -- he seems like a Popovich type of guy. I saw a few people scoffing at him as the projected pick though based on mock drafts and based on what I've seen, I'd be thrilled to get him. I do think he'll take 2 or 3 years to hit his stride but like you said, I don't even know what the Kings are trying to do right now. We have a poor coach, no GM, our leading scorer fresh off signing an $86 million extension just got benched and the guy who replaced him is a free agent. Most fans are already talking fire sale. I'm just looking for good basketball players at this point.
I have put off any interest in bigs until now, Vassell is still my preference, but I guess the possibility next years team won’t resemble this years squad does exist.
Some draft sites have us taking Achiuwa, I wasn’t interested, but after watching some videos and reading recent comments on this thread I now wouldn’t be devastated if he were the pick.
His ball handling looks like a work in progress, but his size, defense, and relentless effort is intriguing. As mentioned he is from Nigeria and has only been playing the game for a few years, got a feeling he will look real good in the near future.
Stewart, he's also getting some attention on these boards. Different look than Achiuwa but if we were to pick up another 1st I wouldn’t mind taking him at all.
No big on the current Kings, Bagley yet to be determined, gives me great confidence of team improvement, so why not.
Some draft sites have us taking Achiuwa, I wasn’t interested, but after watching some videos and reading recent comments on this thread I now wouldn’t be devastated if he were the pick.
His ball handling looks like a work in progress, but his size, defense, and relentless effort is intriguing. As mentioned he is from Nigeria and has only been playing the game for a few years, got a feeling he will look real good in the near future.
Stewart, he's also getting some attention on these boards. Different look than Achiuwa but if we were to pick up another 1st I wouldn’t mind taking him at all.
No big on the current Kings, Bagley yet to be determined, gives me great confidence of team improvement, so why not.
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Groovygreg
Starter
I agree. I wasn’t particularly impressed by his play. I didn’t see great footwork or any noteworthy athleticism.
We will find out but if I had to put money on it, I'd bet that he doesn't even have a spot in the NBA. You see him as a safe pick but I see him as a guy whose talents rarely even apply to the game anymore.
Remind me in a few years if I'm wrong and I'll apologize
bajaden
Hall of Famer
We will find out but if I had to put money on it, I'd bet that he doesn't even have a spot in the NBA. You see him as a safe pick but I see him as a guy whose talents rarely even apply to the game anymore.
Remind me in a few years if I'm wrong and I'll apologize
I wouldn't be surprised if Stewart went in the bottom of the first rd. Not sure what you were looking at when you came up with him being ground bound. Stewart is a good athlete with a terrific motor. His post defense was one of the best in the Pac 12. He averaged over two blocked shots a game and he's as strong as an ox. I watched the Raptors overwhelm the Net's last night with layup after layup. The Nets could used someone like Stewart to protect the rim besides Allen.
Big men like Stewart might not be the focus of a teams offense anymore, but there's still a place for them. Now if you can get a defensive big that can contribute to your offense as well, then I would take him over Stewart. That's why if I had another low 1st rd pick I'd likely take Jalen Smith, who is a little taller, shot just a tick under 37% from the three, grabbed 10.5 boards, and blocked 2.4 shots a game.
SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
I'm interested to see if there are workouts because I can't see how someone like him doesn't turn heads. I started paying attention to Stewart in high school and watched him hang and honestly look more effective than Wiseman in the games. Okongwu looked overmatched in their one meeting as well that displayed how much defensive potential Stewart has as he pretty much shut him down. I still think he could be the next Alonzo Mourning if developed properly and given the chance. I think some teams realize they may have made a mistake letting Naz Reid slip. There is serious potential there and when give then chance he's shown in. I think Stewart has already shown a defensive ability that Reid never did and some of the same potential skills.
I'm not a big fan of Jalen Smith. He reminds me of Jason Thompson. He's a bit awkward and most of his game is predicated on effort although he does have some skill. He's taller but he's not very long and I question how much translation to the NBA level you see in his skillset.
