Evans - PG or SG? And yes, it's this again...
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#1 reason why Reke should start at point (example):
Kings vs. Hornets
PG - Reke vs. Paul
SG - Martin/Greene/Casspi vs. Brown
SF - Greene/Casspi vs. Peja
Kings get a mismatch at the PG spot and possibly at the SG spot. If the Hornets want to switch up, they can maybe prevent the mismatch at the SG spot by using Posey at the SG spot. That plays into the Kings advantage because they're getting the Hornets to use exotic lineups that they might not be use to.
Any team you pick, Kings would have a huge advantage with the PG spot. If Greene could develop and play well consistently, Kings would also have a mismatch at the SG spot, not to mention a lockdown defender from the flashes we've seen of him.
Put Beno or Sergio and play Reke at the SG spot and we can throw all this out the window. LBJ is a mismatch for most teams at the SF spot because he's built like an animal. He could probably play the PF spot and hold his own. Same goes for Reke, he is a mismatch at the PG spot because of the way he's built. Sure, he can play the SG spot, but the Kings wouldn't be using him properly.
Kings vs. Hornets
PG - Reke vs. Paul
SG - Martin/Greene/Casspi vs. Brown
SF - Greene/Casspi vs. Peja
Kings get a mismatch at the PG spot and possibly at the SG spot. If the Hornets want to switch up, they can maybe prevent the mismatch at the SG spot by using Posey at the SG spot. That plays into the Kings advantage because they're getting the Hornets to use exotic lineups that they might not be use to.
Any team you pick, Kings would have a huge advantage with the PG spot. If Greene could develop and play well consistently, Kings would also have a mismatch at the SG spot, not to mention a lockdown defender from the flashes we've seen of him.
Put Beno or Sergio and play Reke at the SG spot and we can throw all this out the window. LBJ is a mismatch for most teams at the SF spot because he's built like an animal. He could probably play the PF spot and hold his own. Same goes for Reke, he is a mismatch at the PG spot because of the way he's built. Sure, he can play the SG spot, but the Kings wouldn't be using him properly.
I think this is an interesting way to answer this one Following is a list of the 20 players with the lowest percentage of thier shots assisted in the entire NBA (basically the guys who create almost all their own shots):
(the leaguewide average BTW is 58.8% of shots assisted)
Top 20 Lowest assisted %:
Shavlik Randolph 0.0% (2games)
Chris Paul 8.9%
Steve Nash 10.2%
Will Bynum 17.4%
TJ Ford 22.2%
Earl Boynkins 23.2%
Jeff Teague 23.7%
Devin Harris 24.0%
Tyreke Evans 24.8%
Russel Westbrook 24.9%
Gilbert Arenas 25.1%
Rajon Rondo 25.8%
Jameer Nelson 26.0%
Eric Maynor 26.9%
Johnny Flynn 27.7%
Dwayne Wade 28.4%
Jose Juan Barea 28.6%
Baron Davis 29.1%
Rafer Alston 29.5%
Brandon Jennings 30.6%
Now what do virtually all of those players have in common? They are PGs (Wade an exception, although really now, who runs the offense there?). Not all are super-pure PGs, but basically this is a PG stat. You have the ball, you create your own offense with it, you're not an off the ball player. And on that standard Reke is among the "purest" PGs in the entire league right now. There is almost no off the ball whatsoever to his game -- no spot shooting, no off the ball cuts. He wants and needs the ball in his hands, and we want and need him to have the ball in his hands. Win/win.
(the leaguewide average BTW is 58.8% of shots assisted)
Top 20 Lowest assisted %:
Shavlik Randolph 0.0% (2games)
Chris Paul 8.9%
Steve Nash 10.2%
Will Bynum 17.4%
TJ Ford 22.2%
Earl Boynkins 23.2%
Jeff Teague 23.7%
Devin Harris 24.0%
Tyreke Evans 24.8%
Russel Westbrook 24.9%
Gilbert Arenas 25.1%
Rajon Rondo 25.8%
Jameer Nelson 26.0%
Eric Maynor 26.9%
Johnny Flynn 27.7%
Dwayne Wade 28.4%
Jose Juan Barea 28.6%
Baron Davis 29.1%
Rafer Alston 29.5%
Brandon Jennings 30.6%
Now what do virtually all of those players have in common? They are PGs (Wade an exception, although really now, who runs the offense there?). Not all are super-pure PGs, but basically this is a PG stat. You have the ball, you create your own offense with it, you're not an off the ball player. And on that standard Reke is among the "purest" PGs in the entire league right now. There is almost no off the ball whatsoever to his game -- no spot shooting, no off the ball cuts. He wants and needs the ball in his hands, and we want and need him to have the ball in his hands. Win/win.
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Beno is not a PG either, rake and beno are very good players but they both SG's, see, PG is the guy who makes his teammates better, like Nash, J.kidd etc.. if your best scorer is your PG you probably won't gain a lot of success because the other players will feel useless because they won't get enough balls.
I think that no team in the history won championship when their best scorer is the PG, but fix me if I'm wrong
im my opinion the only real PG in this team is sergio, he always search for the pass and when the other team starting to think he only passes, then he goes to the hoop by himself.
you need a basketball IQ to be a PG, just look at guys like Rondo for example, he's not searching to become the best scorer, but to make his teammates happier, simple as it sounds that's the point of being a PG, unselfishness.
I think that no team in the history won championship when their best scorer is the PG, but fix me if I'm wrong
im my opinion the only real PG in this team is sergio, he always search for the pass and when the other team starting to think he only passes, then he goes to the hoop by himself.
you need a basketball IQ to be a PG, just look at guys like Rondo for example, he's not searching to become the best scorer, but to make his teammates happier, simple as it sounds that's the point of being a PG, unselfishness.
I don't believe playing traditional positions it's really necesary. It's better to have Tyreke at PG altough he is a SG than having Sergio or any other "true-PG" at PG. Of course, I'd like to see Sergio becoming the next Nash, but I don't think he's enough solid to be an starter PG in this roster. I'm not a blind Sergio fan, I'm not saying I think Tyreke is a SG because I want Sergio as the starter PG.
I think Tyreke is a SG because he reminds me Wade and Roy and LeBron: all SGs. The fact that puting Reke at PG it's the more effective choice or it's doesn't make him a PG. For god's sake, he can be solid even at SF. He's a beast. Of course he can be better at PG than a mid-level true-PG, but that's not because he is really a PG, that's because he's an incredible player.
I think Tyreke is a SG because he reminds me Wade and Roy and LeBron: all SGs. The fact that puting Reke at PG it's the more effective choice or it's doesn't make him a PG. For god's sake, he can be solid even at SF. He's a beast. Of course he can be better at PG than a mid-level true-PG, but that's not because he is really a PG, that's because he's an incredible player.
If you want to learn about Oscar Robertson and Tiny Archibald, neither of whom EVER played for the Lakers BTW, check the history of the Sacramento Kings franchise.
At this point, I'm just gonna bow out of this because I think it's pretty clear you and I have entirely different views of the NBA and the relative importance of various players, etc.
At this point, I'm just gonna bow out of this because I think it's pretty clear you and I have entirely different views of the NBA and the relative importance of various players, etc.
If you want to learn about Oscar Robertson and Tiny Archibald, neither of whom EVER played for the Lakers BTW, check the history of the Sacramento Kings franchise.
At this point, I'm just gonna bow out of this because I think it's pretty clear you and I have entirely different views of the NBA and the relative importance of various players, etc.
At this point, I'm just gonna bow out of this because I think it's pretty clear you and I have entirely different views of the NBA and the relative importance of various players, etc.
To be fair, Oscar played with Lew Alcindor aka Kareem Abdul Jabar.... in Milwaukee
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i dont think that tyreke is a pg, but he is a really good player. what position do i think he should be playing? sg.... it makes the most sense, if tyreke was really a pg we wouldnt have threads about whether or not martin will fit in playing next to him. martin is a pure sg, he does nothing but shoot the basketball. if tyreke were more of a pg than combo or sg we wouldnt be having this debate.
im not gonna like it when martin is traded... martin is a good player, tyreke will be better but thats not martins fault. its tyreke's fault for not being a pg.
im not gonna like it when martin is traded... martin is a good player, tyreke will be better but thats not martins fault. its tyreke's fault for not being a pg.
It a result of them playing playing PG and having the ball a lot and not because they are true PGs. You mix beteween the reason and the result.
May I ask you the same question:
Would it perhaps not be any coincidence that all of you who think Tyreke is more PG and SG coming in off of an American IP address?
Because all the non-american, not only Slovenians here think the same.
Btw, Will Bynom was also at Maccabi. Do you know what was the main criticism against him?
But you know what, maybe you (the Americans) are right about that. It's not basketball, its NBA-basketball. Maybe it what you what from you PG at the NBA.
May I ask you the same question:
Would it perhaps not be any coincidence that all of you who think Tyreke is more PG and SG coming in off of an American IP address?
Because all the non-american, not only Slovenians here think the same.
Btw, Will Bynom was also at Maccabi. Do you know what was the main criticism against him?
But you know what, maybe you (the Americans) are right about that. It's not basketball, its NBA-basketball. Maybe it what you what from you PG at the NBA.
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I just wanted to touch on a couple of things here.
Stars in the league are stars because they don't have to work off the ball in order to be a dominant player. If you watch Tyreke play you'll see that he doesn't do very well off the ball, but that he excels with the ball in his hands.
Granted it would be good for him to get better working off the ball, but which aspect do you think he should focus his time on:
A.) Becoming even better with the ball in his hands (Shooting, passing, decision making)
B.) Becoming better moving with-out the ball (Getting post position, setting screens, moving with-out the ball)
The first option will make you a better star, the second option will make you a better role-player. I'd like him to get better with everything, but his priority should be to focus on the things which only the stars can do.
If you put a pure PG out on the floor with Evans you basically diminish yourself at two positions. You diminish Evans because you work against his strengths as he won't be handling the ball like he needs to. You also diminish that PG because they'll be playing with Tyreke who doesn't excel in a role where he's a role-player.
So you could combine Evans with a scoring PG, but then you take away the natural mis-match that Evans brings when he plays with another full-sized player.
Whether or not Evans plays like a natural PG, the team is better when he's the primary ball-handler as it plays to his strengths, and the simple fact of the matter is: In the NBA you only win in the playoffs if you have at least one star on your team. So I'd rather Tyreke work on becoming the best star he can be.
One final note: Just because I wouldn't be against trading our best SG in Kevin doesn't mean that my logic is that Tyreke is a SG. I think that Garcia playing the SG is a better fit along side Tyreke playing the PG.
I think a Kevin/Tyreke pairing might work, and I'm willing to give it a shot. But if it doesn't work, that doesn't mean that Tyreke is not a PG, it just means that games that each of these two players did not compliment each other.
Stars in the league are stars because they don't have to work off the ball in order to be a dominant player. If you watch Tyreke play you'll see that he doesn't do very well off the ball, but that he excels with the ball in his hands.
Granted it would be good for him to get better working off the ball, but which aspect do you think he should focus his time on:
A.) Becoming even better with the ball in his hands (Shooting, passing, decision making)
B.) Becoming better moving with-out the ball (Getting post position, setting screens, moving with-out the ball)
The first option will make you a better star, the second option will make you a better role-player. I'd like him to get better with everything, but his priority should be to focus on the things which only the stars can do.
If you put a pure PG out on the floor with Evans you basically diminish yourself at two positions. You diminish Evans because you work against his strengths as he won't be handling the ball like he needs to. You also diminish that PG because they'll be playing with Tyreke who doesn't excel in a role where he's a role-player.
So you could combine Evans with a scoring PG, but then you take away the natural mis-match that Evans brings when he plays with another full-sized player.
Whether or not Evans plays like a natural PG, the team is better when he's the primary ball-handler as it plays to his strengths, and the simple fact of the matter is: In the NBA you only win in the playoffs if you have at least one star on your team. So I'd rather Tyreke work on becoming the best star he can be.
One final note: Just because I wouldn't be against trading our best SG in Kevin doesn't mean that my logic is that Tyreke is a SG. I think that Garcia playing the SG is a better fit along side Tyreke playing the PG.
I think a Kevin/Tyreke pairing might work, and I'm willing to give it a shot. But if it doesn't work, that doesn't mean that Tyreke is not a PG, it just means that games that each of these two players did not compliment each other.
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not argument there... he's definitely a basketball player, a good one at that.
There is some twisted logic for you, right there in your quote!
Because that is the point.
Evans looks like an SG, waddles like an SG, quacks like an SG, chances are IT'S AN SG.
yeah... like, what part of tyrekes game reminds anyone of a pg? besides the fact that he's being played at pg. you could put kobe at pg and he would still put up 28/5/5, the lakers would still win. that doesnt mean that kobe is a pg. he's just clearly better than the player thats guarding him. evans is a really good player, he could still get 20/5/5 playing sg... he doesnt need to be in a height mismatch to get his numbers. beno and sergio are not starting quality pgs... but we do need a pg that can play with tyreke if we want our offense to be run efficiently. the problem is that we need a pg that can defend because we lack shotblockers...
i would love it if we could trade beno for ramon sessions... he can defend, pass the ball and is enough of a scorer that he can play off the ball when tyreke has the ball in his hands.
There is some twisted logic for you, right there in your quote!Because that is the point.
Evans looks like an SG, waddles like an SG, quacks like an SG, chances are IT'S AN SG.
i would love it if we could trade beno for ramon sessions... he can defend, pass the ball and is enough of a scorer that he can play off the ball when tyreke has the ball in his hands.
Yea Brick I'm not sure what your argument is stating there... isn't it common logic that if you're a PG, you will be setting other people up, and therefore will be more responsible for your own shot? The only way I see a PG having more of their shots assisted if they played in such a system that promotes ball movement among the whole team, a la Triangle or Princeton, and doesn't rely on traditional guard setting up the play and dominating the ball. Unless I'm missing something?
I do agree with AM - Tyreke is a great player. It's a matter of putting players around him. I don't think he would be as effective playing off the ball because he's not a great defender yet, he has no jumpshot... There's a reason why Richard Hamilton is good at what he does - it plays to his strenghts. You can't put him at PG and expect good numbers. We have the luxury of having a player that is quite obviously a monster with the ball in his hands - but that's the point - he needs the ball in his hands; so we work around it. Surround him with complimentary players, and give him a system that suits his needs. If he needs the ball, give him the ball. Bring in a defensive lockdown PG that can distribute and shoot, and still have Tyreke run the show. But, when the time comes that he needs help or someone else to run the show, you got that PG. Sort of like D Wade does.
I do agree with AM - Tyreke is a great player. It's a matter of putting players around him. I don't think he would be as effective playing off the ball because he's not a great defender yet, he has no jumpshot... There's a reason why Richard Hamilton is good at what he does - it plays to his strenghts. You can't put him at PG and expect good numbers. We have the luxury of having a player that is quite obviously a monster with the ball in his hands - but that's the point - he needs the ball in his hands; so we work around it. Surround him with complimentary players, and give him a system that suits his needs. If he needs the ball, give him the ball. Bring in a defensive lockdown PG that can distribute and shoot, and still have Tyreke run the show. But, when the time comes that he needs help or someone else to run the show, you got that PG. Sort of like D Wade does.
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No, he doesn't always search for the pass especially not lately, and recently when he actually does look to pass he makes a mistake 70% of the time. Sorry, but Sergio is the weakest link. And Sergio will make his teammates happier when his low-budget Jason Statham looking self is cheering them on from the bench. Dude is garbage, he had a few good games and has hit a slump that shows his true colors.