ESPN: Chris Wallace leader for Kings GM
- Thread starter KingKong
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John Galt
Starter
Wasn't that his team in the WCF? God damn the guys on this board (nobody in particular) can be so hard to please sometimes. Lets give the new regime a little leeway.
MassachusettsKingsFan
All-Star
If Chris Wallace is the guy...
Vivek can obviously hire whoever he wants, but I don't expect anything good to come from this. People are still in a 'Kings Staying' honeymoon period, and that's fine, but if this was the Maloofs hire the narrative would be different. "OF COURSE the Maloofs would hire Chris Wallace. Of Course."
Next season when Cousins is shipped to New York for Chris Copeland, two late firsts, and the rights to Kostas Papanikolaou, remember you wanted Chris Wallace.
Vivek can obviously hire whoever he wants, but I don't expect anything good to come from this. People are still in a 'Kings Staying' honeymoon period, and that's fine, but if this was the Maloofs hire the narrative would be different. "OF COURSE the Maloofs would hire Chris Wallace. Of Course."
Next season when Cousins is shipped to New York for Chris Copeland, two late firsts, and the rights to Kostas Papanikolaou, remember you wanted Chris Wallace.
Darth Divac
Bench
I have two words: Larry Legend.
Agent23
Starter
He made one "mistake". He practically built the team that was in the WCF this year. Yet most of this fanbase (not specifically talking about you) have forgiven Geoff Petrie for all of his mistakes. If its Wallace, lets give him a chance to prove himself to us and not judge him on past accomplishments and screw ups. Its a brand new day in Kings Land!
Agreed. I'm beyond thrilled that the kings are staying and am very hopeful that Vivek and company have the right ideas and resources to turn this franchise around. But that doesn't mean I think we should be overly patient with suspect moves. Too many people in this fanbase did that for 5+ years and it led us here. I don't think we should set unrealistic expectations in terms of wins but the ownership group can't afford to make missteps like this early.
Agent23
Starter
We don't know if this is a mistake or not. Just like we don't know if Mike Malone was a mistake or not.
One mistake? Go back and look at his track record. He destroyed Boston's rebuild and he lucked into gasol, who he didn't think would even come over to the states. Based on his pee poor drafting performance (second worst in the league), random free agent signings and suspect trades over the course of his career, people should absolutely be wary if this ends up being the hire.
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By that logic, we didn't know if hiring smart was a mistake. Or natt. Or theus. Or picking jimmer. Trading for salmons. Etc. To pretend that we don't know exactly how something will turn out until it does is the exact kind of blind optimism this franchise has operated under for close to a decade.
Agent23
Starter
Look at Geoff Petrie's track record and Mitch Kupchak's track record. They were both failures and successful at different points of their careers. If its Wallace, let him prove himself to us. He has a blank slate to make this a succesful part of his career. If not, crticize away! I'll be there with you.
MassachusettsKingsFan
All-Star
I don't know, I mean - I 'forgive' Petrie because it's over. He had a good run, but its over. I think about 99% of the Kings Fan base knew it was time to move on.
If we hire Wallace I will give him a clean slate because I have to, but that doesn't mean I would have hired him in the first place. I will judge Wallace based on what he does for this roster, but I know what I am expecting and it isn't good.
Its interesting .. we hired Malone before the GM. Now that Wallace might be the guy and Lionel Hollins is suddenly available, I wonder who Wallace would want as head coach?
I just don't like it. I don't like any of it.
Agent23
Starter
We didn't know till it actually happened, lol. Half this fanbase thought Jimmer was a good pick. Half this fanbase thought Smart was a decent replacement for Westphal. Theus was a better coach than Musselman, right?
John Galt
Starter
Wow there is a lot of negative "group think" going on about Chris Wallace for some reason. I don't get it. Guess we'll all see. I just can't believe Vivek isn't getting more benefit of the doubt here. Wallace isn't getting credit for moves that DID work out (Marc Gasol) nor is he getting any slack based on meddling owners/underminers in the Grizzlies org. I mean seriously, there is this group groaning about "missteps" is just weird to me. Michael Malone & Chris Wallace have zero f*** ups so far as the Kings leaders. Lets give 'em a shot. To call this a "misstep" at this stage of the game just is a really really really pessimistic approach.
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Agent23
Starter
Chris Wallace would have probably waited on Hollins, lol. Dangit!
HereWeBoogie
Hall of Famer
but did he really build that team to make it that far, or was it an accident? he shipped out OJ Mayo and Rudy Gay
Bravo.
The pessimism around here is very disheartening. It seems like a lot of Kings fans have become so jaded that they will not even try to look at the good side or even the idea of a possible good side to things before they start to grouse.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
Mayo needed to go earlier. He's a turd. the mistake there was in not getting rid of him while he had value.
Gay wasn't Wallace. I'm surprised people weren't aware of that when it happened. Big controversy. New owners come in, bring in ESPN stat geeks to run the franchise, Wallace shoved aside, and despite all protests from coaches and team members just set and determined to trade away Gay. GM isn't even consulted. Its all a numbers thing.
Wallace..I don't trust him. But as long as a knowledgeable owner sits on him and keeps veto power over any franchise altering mistakes you could do it. Of course that has caused some major issues for Wallace in the past -- he didn't want to draft Thabeet, did not want to trade Gay. And if you are having to monitor him that closely, is it worth it? But nonetheless, he's passed a lot of good defensive personnel both in and out of Memphis over the past 5years. It bespeaks a certain focus that matches well with what we are trying to do.
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The Wallace hand-wringing seems a bit much. Did he make some bad moves- yes. Did he make some good moves- yes. A lot of his moves are similar to the moves that Petrie made to build the golden era Kings.
First, take away the moves that he played little part in- it seems unfair to give him credit or flack for these moves:
Drafting Conley- Wallace was brand new
Drafting Thabeet- apparently was dictated by ownership (we know about that all too well)
Trading Gay- a move supposedly by the new management.
So people want to focus on the bad moves:
Traded Love for Mayo- Bad move. In his defense, it was a draft day trade, and most people thought it was a solid move at the time.
Extended Gay- bad move. But would not be the first time that a small market GM bent over backwards to overpay a star player to keep him in the market (CWebb)
But what about the good moves:
Traded Pau for Marc. Got great value (the defensive player of the year) in a trade where everyone knew he HAD to trade Pau. People want to say he was lucky, and that no one could have predicted that Marc would have turned out so good. Probably the same people who said Petrie was “lucky” that Peja panned out. Just because you make a move that Marc Stein and Stephen A. do not agree with does not mean you are “lucky” when it pans out. The guy still did trade a player on his way out for the reigning defensive player of the year.
Traded Q Richardson for Zach Randolph. A move that changed the entire direction of the franchise. Like trading Richmond for CWebb.
Signed Tony Allen as a FA. The type of heady, role player signing that makes championship teams. Allen is their Christie.
Traded Thabeet for Battier. Thabeet was a bust. At least he traded him for a good role player.
Drafted Grevais Vazquez. Everyone says he cannot draft. He drafted Vasquez at 28. I am sure a lot of people here would love if we drafted GV at 28.
I just think people are overacting a bit. Wallace isn’t the best GM in the league, but he has a proven track record. If we cannot get Bird, who else would you rather have? I suppose people like the Warriors guy (Sclenck), but what track record does he have?
First, take away the moves that he played little part in- it seems unfair to give him credit or flack for these moves:
Drafting Conley- Wallace was brand new
Drafting Thabeet- apparently was dictated by ownership (we know about that all too well)
Trading Gay- a move supposedly by the new management.
So people want to focus on the bad moves:
Traded Love for Mayo- Bad move. In his defense, it was a draft day trade, and most people thought it was a solid move at the time.
Extended Gay- bad move. But would not be the first time that a small market GM bent over backwards to overpay a star player to keep him in the market (CWebb)
But what about the good moves:
Traded Pau for Marc. Got great value (the defensive player of the year) in a trade where everyone knew he HAD to trade Pau. People want to say he was lucky, and that no one could have predicted that Marc would have turned out so good. Probably the same people who said Petrie was “lucky” that Peja panned out. Just because you make a move that Marc Stein and Stephen A. do not agree with does not mean you are “lucky” when it pans out. The guy still did trade a player on his way out for the reigning defensive player of the year.
Traded Q Richardson for Zach Randolph. A move that changed the entire direction of the franchise. Like trading Richmond for CWebb.
Signed Tony Allen as a FA. The type of heady, role player signing that makes championship teams. Allen is their Christie.
Traded Thabeet for Battier. Thabeet was a bust. At least he traded him for a good role player.
Drafted Grevais Vazquez. Everyone says he cannot draft. He drafted Vasquez at 28. I am sure a lot of people here would love if we drafted GV at 28.
I just think people are overacting a bit. Wallace isn’t the best GM in the league, but he has a proven track record. If we cannot get Bird, who else would you rather have? I suppose people like the Warriors guy (Sclenck), but what track record does he have?
whozit
Starter
Wallace as far as we know hasn't been hired yet. Just speculation. There is also the other former(?) executive from Indy.
I'm really not understanding this position. Obviously anyone that isn't currently a part of the Kings organization is unknown and will continue to be until they perform in some way. Are we really claiming that past performance, philosophy, mentorship, etc can't influence our opinions of these moves before they are made. If that's the case, why have a message board at all. Unless its simply to pat each other on the back regardless of any move is made unless it doesn't work out, at which point we can all set our collective hair on fire.
To be clear, I'm in favor of the Malone move because of his reputation with players and other coaches, who he has worked with, and his philosophy. I am against the Wallace move due to the opposite. He's had major roles in two franchises, with different ownership groups, financial restraint, etc. Boston was a complete disaster. Memphis was far more successful. In terms of the moves in Memphis that led to their current success (guys that played meaningful minutes):
1. Drafting Mike Conley: He had nothing to do with this move. He was hired four days prior to the draft and this was the coaches pick.
2. Acquiring Marc Gasol: This was called one of the worst trades of all time and Chris Wallace himself has stated he didn't think Marc Gasol would come over to the states. That basically means he traded Pau Gasol for Kwame Brown, Javaris Crittendon and 2 late 1st rounders. I think its funny that people try to excuse this trade as being owner meddling while at the same time arguing that the Gasol acquisition somehow is a positive for Wallace.
3. Acquiring Zach Randolph: A very risky move at the time as Randolph's value was at an all time low but I think this was a really good move.
4. Tayshawn Prince: A nice glue piece but only there because Wallace swapped Gay for Kevin Love and then significantly overpaid for Rudy which impacted his value. They will still be paying a quickly diminishing Prince for the next 2 years.
5. Tony Allen: I love Tony Allen and like that Wallace has seen the value in him at a couple different spots.
6. Jerryd Bayless: A bleh player that he signed.
7. Quincey Pondexter: An ok rotation guy until you mention that he traded Greives Vasquez for him who is significantly better.
That's the team and basically only a couple of the key pieces were signs of positive GM skill from Wallace. I won't even bother to mention all of the crappy moves he's made over his career.
Listen, I'd love to be wrong and write off all of the bad moves or give him credit for things he didn't mean to do. But this team has a remarkably short window to get things right. Bring in the wrong GM and he makes a few Wallace type moves and the fanbase's honeymoon period will end quickly.
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NewArena
All-Star
Considering how fast we moved on the Malone hire, you've got to wonder just how sold we are on Wallace as GM. All these different rumors and options, kinda tells me that we really aren't sure. That isn't a bad thing though. It's an important decision
NewArena
All-Star
oh, The dramatics.... lol please.
gunks
Hall of Famer
This. Plus all the rumors about how he isnt even making any of the decisions that have turned Memphis around. Dude was a joke, now he's an afterthought, if he comes here he will probably be a joke again.
Which is why I'm hoping this Wallace jive is just a smokescreen. Vivek is smarter than this.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
Tayshaun Prince was not Wallace's call in a very big and very public way. Also, it was Mayo who was swapped for Love. Gay was there before Wallace even arrived. He obviously did extend him though, but what are you going to do as a small market in that situation?
We don't know the role in the Conley deal. Its entirely possible he had only a minor role to paly, but he was the GM at the time, so it seems a bti convenient to completely dismiss him. Certainly he would have had ample opportunity in the following years to trade him if it was not his guy, an he never did.
The Gasol thing...I've expressed doubts about what he knew myself. but again we don't know and it worked out. And there are the rumors that again he may have had a better deal with Chicago worked out, including Noah as well, and it got nixed by ownership. Just can't know.
I worry as much about the little smaller daily moves he makes. Not because they are all bad, but because they are never consistently good. No real momentum is gained. Just a little of this and a little of that. But in the end it did all add up to a perennial just sub contender. And he'd be coming to a team with at least 1 player who could be better than anything he had in Memphis.
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Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
Oh, that's maybe the most realistic part of the concern. I don't know if there is another GM in the NBA who has given away the caliber of talents Wallace has. And always for very shaky packages. Joe Johnson for Tony Delk and Rodney Rogers. Pau Gasol for a stack of nothing that happened to include Marc. Kevin Love for OJ Mayo.
Good catch on the Mayo deal. I knew that didn't look right. The Conley pick was not his. He'd only been on the job 4 days, Iavaronni really wanted Conley and Heisly blessed it.
I don't disagree on the influence from Heisley. My overall point is that he sucked in Boston and that any move good in Memphis seems to get credited to Wallace (even when there is ample evidence to the contrary) and bad moves to management interference. Sounds a lot like the later Petrie years.
Frankly, I want a strong enough GM that has demonstrated consistent performance for identifying talented players, contract management and moves. Wallace has not done that. He isn't a 2-3 year guy. He has over a decade of performance to evaluate and frankly its weak.
NewArena
All-Star
Oh please. Every move has a hint (sometimes more than a hint) of luck attached to it. Why are you all acting so brand new to this fact? lol is it post traumatic Maloof, or??
LPKingsFan
All-Star
Are we forgetting that when Vivek first joined the ownership group, reports were that he wanted a significant say in personnel moves? Maybe he wants someone who is willing to work along with ownership and not have such a big ego that they will only GM on their own. I trust Vivek's vision and strategy over the Memphis ownership, that's for sure.
Since there is a lot of discussion around it, I thought I would list a track record of his major moves in his career.
Draft picks:
Jerome Moiso (#11) Ouch
Joe Johnson (#10) Good but then traded in rookie year for bad package
Kedrick Brown (#11) Ouch
Joe Forte (#21) Ouch
Paul Pierce (#10) Great
Troy Bell (#16) Ouch
Dahntay Jones (#20) Eh
Mike Conley (#4) Not his pick
Kevin Love (#5) swapped for Mayo
Donte Green (#28) Ouch
Hasheem Thabeet (#2) Ouch
Demare Carroll (#27) Eh
Dominique Jones (#25) Ouch
Grevies Vasquez (#28) Good but traded for Pondexter
Tony Wroten (#25) TBD
Significant FA signings (in 10 years)
Erick Strickland eh
Darko Milicic Ouch
Darius Miles End of career
Allen Iverson End of career
Tony Allen Great
Dante Cunningham Good roleplayer
Jeryd Bayless Ok roleplayer
Trades
Paul Gasol for Marc Gasol, Kwame Brown, Crittendon, 2 picks Ouch though Gasol was a lucky find
Joe Johnson and a draft pick for Tony Delk and Rodney Rogers Ouch
Kenny Anderson and others for Vin Baker Ouch
Shammond Williams for Mark Blount Eh
Donte Green and Sam Young for Darrell Arthur Decent role player
Kevin Love and Mike Miller for OJ Mayo Ouch
Kyle Lowry for Demarre Carroll pick Ouch
Darko Milicic for Quentin Richardson Ended up netting them Randolph
Quentin Richardson for Zach Randolph Great
1[SUP]st[/SUP] round pick (Montejiunas) for Ronnie Brewer Poor value for a 1st rounder
DeMarre Carroll, Hasheem Thabeet and 1[SUP]st[/SUP] round pick for Shane Battier Ok, but Battier only played 1 season for them and was just an end to Thabeet debacle
Greivis Vasquez for Quincy Pondexter Not good
Xavier Henry for Mareese Speights Ok
Rudy Gay for Austin Daye, Tayshawn Prince and Ed Davis Bad value
There you go folks. The entire Chris Wallace resume.
Draft picks:
Jerome Moiso (#11) Ouch
Joe Johnson (#10) Good but then traded in rookie year for bad package
Kedrick Brown (#11) Ouch
Joe Forte (#21) Ouch
Paul Pierce (#10) Great
Troy Bell (#16) Ouch
Dahntay Jones (#20) Eh
Mike Conley (#4) Not his pick
Kevin Love (#5) swapped for Mayo
Donte Green (#28) Ouch
Hasheem Thabeet (#2) Ouch
Demare Carroll (#27) Eh
Dominique Jones (#25) Ouch
Grevies Vasquez (#28) Good but traded for Pondexter
Tony Wroten (#25) TBD
Significant FA signings (in 10 years)
Erick Strickland eh
Darko Milicic Ouch
Darius Miles End of career
Allen Iverson End of career
Tony Allen Great
Dante Cunningham Good roleplayer
Jeryd Bayless Ok roleplayer
Trades
Paul Gasol for Marc Gasol, Kwame Brown, Crittendon, 2 picks Ouch though Gasol was a lucky find
Joe Johnson and a draft pick for Tony Delk and Rodney Rogers Ouch
Kenny Anderson and others for Vin Baker Ouch
Shammond Williams for Mark Blount Eh
Donte Green and Sam Young for Darrell Arthur Decent role player
Kevin Love and Mike Miller for OJ Mayo Ouch
Kyle Lowry for Demarre Carroll pick Ouch
Darko Milicic for Quentin Richardson Ended up netting them Randolph
Quentin Richardson for Zach Randolph Great
1[SUP]st[/SUP] round pick (Montejiunas) for Ronnie Brewer Poor value for a 1st rounder
DeMarre Carroll, Hasheem Thabeet and 1[SUP]st[/SUP] round pick for Shane Battier Ok, but Battier only played 1 season for them and was just an end to Thabeet debacle
Greivis Vasquez for Quincy Pondexter Not good
Xavier Henry for Mareese Speights Ok
Rudy Gay for Austin Daye, Tayshawn Prince and Ed Davis Bad value
There you go folks. The entire Chris Wallace resume.
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