[The Athletic] Dumars has no interest in being the long-term head of basketball operations, and will not be a candidate in the search.

#1
Intel Sharing: What we’re hearing about Kings GM search and Joe Dumars’ role (paywall)

Keynotes from the article:
  • The new GM will answer to Kings owner Vivek Ranadive — and not to Dumars. This is key for any executive who wants to know that he has full control of the roster, with the owner’s voice and influence omnipresent as always.
  • Dumars has no interest in being the long-term head of basketball operations, and will not be a candidate in the search. In fact, he’s expected to be a pivotal part of the process and will likely interview candidates alongside Ranadive.
Checxk out the link above for more.
 
#4
Here's a bit more color:

1. Lots of new names.

2. Heavy interest, which is kind of a no brainer despite Vivek. 14 years of incompetence, so any new GM would be getting in at all time low expectations. A 39 win season, for example, may result in a parade (I kid--sorta). And only 30 Gm spots with at least 100 candidates (asst gms/stalking horses like Vlade/outcasts-retirees like Hinkie, Karl, Petrie, Dumars) vying for the spot--supply and demand.

3. Spoiler alert--two paragraphs are dedicated to Scott Perry. Internal and external interests are pushing for him. Gone, however, is the George Hill, Zbo, and Vince signings as evidence of his awesomeness. Now he gets credit for getting De'Aaron Fox to come and try out for the Kings. Yes, friends, Scott Perry is being lauded as an ideal fit, because he got Fox to show up in person. Again, shouldn't that be a minimum threshold expectation for any new GM--that he'll be able to get potential draftees to come in for a workout.

4. No Hinkie.

The Scott Perry spin fest is on.
 
#5
The best news I've heard since the first shoe dropped.

Perry's tenure in Sac was ok but with the Knicks it's not looking good. Some say he gets overridden there which is why apparently it went from dream job to him wanting out? Would we have to compensate the Knicks to hire him? I don't like this.

Like I said in the other thread, Vivek absolutely has to hit a homerun here. He got it wrong horribly with Pete and so he played it ultra safe with Vlade and after a promising 2018-2019 season everything took 10 giant steps back and right now Bagley is egg all over everyone's face. This is make or break. I don't think Perry is the dude. He'll need someone with a winning pedigree and also with proven success in a lower tier market. I'm glad the search firm is on it. I really do expect this to take a few months and everything i and t to be dotted and crossed. I'm totally cool throwing away next season while the new GM settles in. I expect empty arenas and little interest. If there is ever a time to do it, do it then.
 
#7
Here's a bit more color:

1. Lots of new names.

2. Heavy interest, which is kind of a no brainer despite Vivek. 14 years of incompetence, so any new GM would be getting in at all time low expectations. A 39 win season, for example, may result in a parade (I kid--sorta). And only 30 Gm spots with at least 100 candidates (asst gms/stalking horses like Vlade/outcasts-retirees like Hinkie, Karl, Petrie, Dumars) vying for the spot--supply and demand.

3. Spoiler alert--two paragraphs are dedicated to Scott Perry. Internal and external interests are pushing for him. Gone, however, is the George Hill, Zbo, and Vince signings as evidence of his awesomeness. Now he gets credit for getting De'Aaron Fox to come and try out for the Kings. Yes, friends, Scott Perry is being lauded as an ideal fit, because he got Fox to show up in person. Again, shouldn't that be a minimum threshold expectation for any new GM--that he'll be able to get potential draftees to come in for a workout.

4. No Hinkie.

The Scott Perry spin fest is on.
Yeah, my gut is telling me it's Perry, too.

The frustrating thing is this apparently isn't like the coaching carousel and all we have to choose from is uninspired retreads.

All these exciting names and its going to be Perry, isn't it? Sure, he's better than Vlade for reasons why Dumars is better than Vlade, but come on. Hearing all these great names you have your pick of the litter from and then walking right into the ONE disaster in spite of everything would just be so fitting.

Reminds me of a certain other thing...
 
#8
Not digging all of this Perry smoke I'm seeing.

He has been awful in NY.

Is Vivek going for the hat trick with bad GM signings?
Perry has some questionable moves so far as Knicks GM but that franchise is an even bigger dumpster fire with we are with a meddling owner so I’m not convinced all the offseason moves for the power forwards was his call to begin with. If I do remember correctly, he got Markelle Fultz to interview with us as well even though we were only picking 5th. He has many relationships around the league and some comfort/familiarity with the organization can go a long way in providing much needed stability we have all been hoping for
 

VF21

#KingsFansForever
Staff member
#9
Re: Scott Perry. I'll make one observation. I trust and respect Pete Youngman's opinion. He has been consistently as truthful as possible with the fanbase. He knows a lot of the dirty little secrets about what's gone on the past few years with front office dealings. If he respects Perry and thinks he'd be a good departure for the Kings, I'd give Perry a bit more credit.
 
#11
Carmichael Dave and Sam had an extensive conversation on the topic this morning, which was great. One issue has still not been broached—will the COO continue to have decision making authority over basketball operations? Would this particular COO be amenable to relinquishing basketball ops authority, or do we need a new COO in conjunction with a new president of basketball operations? Per Mr Youngman, he was fired by the COO. No one of the caliber of Simon, Webster or Zarren will even interview if the COO would have the authority to fire the GM’s new training staff—which we would obviously hire a new staff given the disastrous results this season.

I wish someone like Carmichael Dave or Marcos Breton would address what specific authority the COO has within this organization. We hear a lot of conversation about Vivek, and minority owners, but the COO is never discussed despite poor basketball decisions.

Which begs the question: why do the (mostly local) minority owners want Scott Perry so badly? Perry would captain another weak front office. Shouldn’t the minority owners want a strong, new voice in the front office to champion the best interests of the on-court product directly to Vivek? Wouldn’t on-court results drive the biggest increase in equity?
 
#12
Perry has some questionable moves so far as Knicks GM but that franchise is an even bigger dumpster fire with we are with a meddling owner so I’m not convinced all the offseason moves for the power forwards was his call to begin with. If I do remember correctly, he got Markelle Fultz to interview with us as well even though we were only picking 5th. He has many relationships around the league and some comfort/familiarity with the organization can go a long way in providing much needed stability we have all been hoping for
So we want a GM who's comfortable being a yes man to a meddling owner who makes horrible basketball decisions? I guess I can see the appeal to a guy like Vivek...

You make a good point about stability and connections in the league, but honestly shouldn't that be the bare minimum? You'd want that from every candidate, and hopefully a lot more brought to the table.
 
#13
So we want a GM who's comfortable being a yes man to a meddling owner who makes horrible basketball decisions? I guess I can see the appeal to a guy like Vivek...

You make a good point about stability and connections in the league, but honestly shouldn't that be the bare minimum? You'd want that from every candidate, and hopefully a lot more brought to the table.
Obviously, stability and connections in the league should be the bare minimum but given the tremulous situation we are in now (after all the drama with Pete D, Malone, Branden Williams, Joerger and now Divac) stability and connections in the league might be a priority to resume a stable track record for some time before free agents and agents of free agents/rookies will even trust Sac-town enough to be willing to come here. Because being a bad team is a completely different thing from being a bad team with drama in the FO where coach/GM firing and players being traded (sometimes like Gabriel who was at least a young asset we liked got traded not to his ability but to correct Divac's mistake) are a regular occurrence.
 

VF21

#KingsFansForever
Staff member
#14
Carmichael Dave and Sam had an extensive conversation on the topic this morning, which was great. One issue has still not been broached—will the COO continue to have decision making authority over basketball operations? Would this particular COO be amenable to relinquishing basketball ops authority, or do we need a new COO in conjunction with a new president of basketball operations? Per Mr Youngman, he was fired by the COO. No one of the caliber of Simon, Webster or Zarren will even interview if the COO would have the authority to fire the GM’s new training staff—which we would obviously hire a new staff given the disastrous results this season.

I wish someone like Carmichael Dave or Marcos Breton would address what specific authority the COO has within this organization. We hear a lot of conversation about Vivek, and minority owners, but the COO is never discussed despite poor basketball decisions.

Which begs the question: why do the (mostly local) minority owners want Scott Perry so badly? Perry would captain another weak front office. Shouldn’t the minority owners want a strong, new voice in the front office to champion the best interests of the on-court product directly to Vivek? Wouldn’t on-court results drive the biggest increase in equity?
The COO is the woman behind the curtain. You can reportedly find her fingerprints all over a lot of decisions, denials from the front office to the contrary. It is widely assumed it was her decision to dump Pete Youngman and his staff, a decision met with disdain throughout the league among other training staffs and front offices. For some reason, discussing her is verboten. While you can find limited information about her, her real power is unknown by most. It is interesting to note that her husband is a real estate mogul ... she came to the Kings in 1998. How she's still here is a mystery in and of itself.
 
#16
The COO is the woman behind the curtain. You can reportedly find her fingerprints all over a lot of decisions, denials from the front office to the contrary. It is widely assumed it was her decision to dump Pete Youngman and his staff, a decision met with disdain throughout the league among other training staffs and front offices. For some reason, discussing her is verboten. While you can find limited information about her, her real power is unknown by most. It is interesting to note that her husband is a real estate mogul ... she came to the Kings in 1998. How she's still here is a mystery in and of itself.
It’s pretty simple to me. Until Covid, the Vivek lead ownership killed it in RE. She lead that effort. Thats why she has immunity from any accountability on the non-RE stuff.
 
#17
Its really not a mystery. She is the reason DOCO got done. She has her strengths and her political sway to get the real estate deals done.

She also has no business working on the basketball side of things.
Because of Covid, she’s more vulnerable than ever. Those RE financing structures didn’t anticipate a global shutdown that will impact the league for at least 2 yrs.
 
#18
Why did that make me feel worse than before I heard it? Gave me less than my zero confidence that I already had for Vivek. But then again, my view towards him is already jaded so it may just be my bias.
 

VF21

#KingsFansForever
Staff member
#19
It’s pretty simple to me. Until Covid, the Vivek lead ownership killed it in RE. She lead that effort. Thats why she has immunity from any accountability on the non-RE stuff.
I could have phrased that better. I meant to say I didn't understand why the Maloofs kept her around when they were having all the dumpster fires and getting rid of everyone.
 
#20
My question is what is Dumars then? This is kind of how the whole what is Vlade then situation started. Just sayin' but he started off not wanting to run the team either. You can't let the way Perry went out the first time happen again either.
 
#21
Here's a bit more color:

1. Lots of new names.

2. Heavy interest, which is kind of a no brainer despite Vivek. 14 years of incompetence, so any new GM would be getting in at all time low expectations. A 39 win season, for example, may result in a parade (I kid--sorta). And only 30 Gm spots with at least 100 candidates (asst gms/stalking horses like Vlade/outcasts-retirees like Hinkie, Karl, Petrie, Dumars) vying for the spot--supply and demand.

3. Spoiler alert--two paragraphs are dedicated to Scott Perry. Internal and external interests are pushing for him. Gone, however, is the George Hill, Zbo, and Vince signings as evidence of his awesomeness. Now he gets credit for getting De'Aaron Fox to come and try out for the Kings. Yes, friends, Scott Perry is being lauded as an ideal fit, because he got Fox to show up in person. Again, shouldn't that be a minimum threshold expectation for any new GM--that he'll be able to get potential draftees to come in for a workout.

4. No Hinkie.

The Scott Perry spin fest is on.
I mean, after Perry's job with the Knicks he's already worked his way back to the Kings? They chew you up and spit you out fast up there. In reality it looks like Dumars is putting his band back together though. Or trying to. They had one hit in 2004, but if it happens it will cement that legacy too depending on what happens here.
 
#22
GTFOH with Perry. If they hire this guy, it will be the same signings as what Vlade did. We will have lots of deals eventually where Perry signs vets like Cojo and we will finish buried in the west. Perry signing vet PF’s that got the Knicks nowhere. The Knicks AND the Kings should have continued developing young talent Instead of settling to try and get to the 8th spot when they clearly weren’t ready.

They should be hiring the newer GM candidates from these franchises who are succeeding because in part of their ability to mine the draft and undrafted rookies free agents. That is what we need as a small market team.
 
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#23
Perry has some questionable moves so far as Knicks GM but that franchise is an even bigger dumpster fire with we are with a meddling owner so I’m not convinced all the offseason moves for the power forwards was his call to begin with. If I do remember correctly, he got Markelle Fultz to interview with us as well even though we were only picking 5th. He has many relationships around the league and some comfort/familiarity with the organization can go a long way in providing much needed stability we have all been hoping for
What owner would want 5 power towards and Dolan is better than vevik.

Again my god we’re impressed with someone cause he got a college player to come workout for us this is a new low I don’t even think Browns fans have hit. Scott Perry is rock bottom folks and I might pull a Brick and leave
 
#24
I mean, after Perry's job with the Knicks he's already worked his way back to the Kings? They chew you up and spit you out fast up there. In reality it looks like Dumars is putting his band back together though. Or trying to. They had one hit in 2004, but if it happens it will cement that legacy too depending on what happens here.
Did you listen to the interview? Putting the band back together? It was brought up league questions why that it was okay for Vlade to answer to Dumars but not the new hire who will answer directly to Vivek? WTF!

What position does Dumars have and what line of crap was he fed?
 
#25
GTFOH is Perry. If they hire this guy, it will be the same signings as what Vlade did. We will have lots of deals eventually where Perry signs vets like Cojo and we will finish buried in the west. Perry signing vet PF’s that got the Knicks nowhere. The Knicks AND the Kings should have continued developing young talent Instead of settling to try and get to the 8th spot when they clearly weren’t ready.

They should be hiring the newer GM candidates from these franchises who are succeeding because in part of their ability to mine the draft and undrafted rookies free agents. That is what we need as a small market team.
If Perry's responsible for signing George Hill when you just drafted Fox then that should certainly be cause for concern because that landmine was easy to call. Dedmon was the same. Did Vlade take a page from Perry's book?

I really don't think the team is so lacking in talent it needs to be blown up but again, none of this likely matters if the on court part of things remains in the dumpster fire. There is an obvious disconnect between coach and talent, first in terms of play style now in terms of attitude. If Luke wants to run his team like he is then they need to bring in the tools for him to run it. Honestly, that probably means removing half of the team and major parts of the core just as a starter. It's much easier to finally pick a coach specifically for your core.
 
#26
Did you listen to the interview? Putting the band back together? It was brought up league questions why that it was okay for Vlade to answer to Dumars but not the new hire who will answer directly to Vivek? WTF!

What position does Dumars have and what line of crap was he fed?
Yeah, putting his band back together.

https://dailyknicks.com/2020/08/19/knicks-rumors-scott-perry-swell-support-return-sacramento-gm/

"Joe Dumars, who hired Perry as an executive in Detroit, is currently handling the day-to-day management duties. Dumars’ relationship with Perry could help facilitate a reunion. The two worked together with the Pistons when they were perennial contenders in the Eastern Conference and NBA champions in 2004."
 
#27
GTFOH is Perry. If they hire this guy, it will be the same signings as what Vlade did. We will have lots of deals eventually where Perry signs vets like Cojo and we will finish buried in the west. Perry signing vet PF’s that got the Knicks nowhere. The Knicks AND the Kings should have continued developing young talent Instead of settling to try and get to the 8th spot when they clearly weren’t ready.

They should be hiring the newer GM candidates from these franchises who are succeeding because in part of their ability to mine the draft and undrafted rookies free agents. That is what we need as a small market team.
At least vlades signings made sense them fools signed all power forwards. crap even if they signed all SF it would be ok but no they go for non shooting bigs
 
#28
Yeah, putting his band back together.

https://dailyknicks.com/2020/08/19/knicks-rumors-scott-perry-swell-support-return-sacramento-gm/

"Joe Dumars, who hired Perry as an executive in Detroit, is currently handling the day-to-day management duties. Dumars’ relationship with Perry could help facilitate a reunion. The two worked together with the Pistons when they were perennial contenders in the Eastern Conference and NBA champions in 2004."
Okay that is coming from a New York source that perhaps a agent "leaked."

What Amick is talking about is the internal workings of a organization on the other side of the country. Not in New York. It was not flattering. Confusion abounds.

Disclaimer, haven't yet read the other article. Am about to. Not sure my stance changed any.
 
#29
At least vlades signings made sense them fools signed all power forwards. crap even if they signed all SF it would be ok but no they go for non shooting bigs
Exactly. Vlade whiffed when it came to the use your noodle portion of the draft (beyond pick 5) but he was building the first thing that made some sense on paper. As bad as he stacked at positions it was nothing like Petrie in his final few years. The biggest backlash in that for Vlade was that he probably somewhat duped the players into thinking their roles were solid upon signging when they weren't. As good as Holmes was in no other situation would Dedmon be misused and then promptly thrown from the rotation like he was here. That word gets around with players come FA time.

That said, Petrie first trading assets for Hickson who didn't fit next to a Cousins anyway, then still signing JT to that deal was a killer. Gosh that was anger inducing. At least Vlade kept those deals overpaid but short and bailed before things went full on nuclear. The Petrie towards the end would've signed Dedmon to a full lifetime contract after he was benched if he could have.
 
#30
Okay that is coming from a New York source that perhaps a agent "leaked."

What Amick is talking about is the internal workings of a organization on the other side of the country. Not in New York. It was not flattering. Confusion abounds.

Disclaimer, haven't yet read the other article. Am about to. Not sure my stance changed any.
Well, what it indicates is that squareone starts off with Dumars going right to the familiar faces. It may not happen but there is history there. Very odd as well considering Perry's short stint here. It makes me wonder who is in Viveks inner circle and who gets in his ear.
 
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