Emeka Okafur

I don't think he would be a good fit, as I pointed out in another thread. He's not a good passer, and Petrie puts a lot of emphasis on passing. He doesn't have an outside shot, and as you pointed out, he's not a good freethrow shooter. He's a good defender and a great rebounder. I'm not saying it couldn't work, but at what it would cost to keep him, I'm just not sure.

Well you're right that Petrie puts an emphasis on getting big men who can pass and shoot, but there's more than one way to win a game of basketball. For years we've been a jumpshot dependent team, dominant when the shots are falling but prone to slumps of bad shooting nights. We keep saying we need a post scorer to balance the scoring load, and also to draw attention to the interior and help create open shots. If you remember that one series when we looked really good against San Antonio in the playoffs it was primarily Bonzi and Ron taking the ball into the post. Okafor is a post scorer as well as a rebounder and an interior defender. In other words, he represents everything that this team, as presently constructed, currently lacks.

At 6'10" his natural position is PF not C. He's played C in Charlotte because the other big men they've had are Primoz Brezec and Nazr Mohammed. Remember they also played Gerald Wallace at PF for two seasons, the same guy we drafted as a SG. Not every PF in the league has to have an outside jump shot. Considering we already have Hawes and Thompson who both can shoot the outside jumper, doesn't it make sense to fill out the front line with a low post scorer instead of another jump shooter? On top of that, he'd instantly be the best defender on our team and he's only 25 years old so he fits with the youth movement. And it's way premature to pencil Thompson and Hawes in as the starters of the future. Neither one projects as a star in the league (based on their draft position) and Thompson hasn't even played a game yet. Even best case scenario it's not unreasonable that one of them ends up a key bench guy. Okafor is a genuine starter right now and one of the best rebounders and defenders in the game.

And regarding the passing ability, I think it's a little unfair to look at a guy's assists statistics and say he can't pass. Who thought of Brad Miller as a passer before he got to Sacramento? I think coaching certainly plays a role here as well as the other players on the team and style of play. The Bobcats have had terrible coaching. I bet Okafor is probably a better passer than he ever gets a chance to show in Charlotte. And even if he's not, all he has to do is pass out of double teams. He doesn't necessarily need to nail behind the back bounce passes like Vlade and Chris to be effective in a passing offense. The only glaring weakness I see is his free throw shooting, but there's a long line of effective big men who can't shoot free throws as well as guys who have improved over time. I wouldn't call that a deal breaker, particularly when you're not going to count on him to be a primary scorer anyway.

When all those contracts do expire, whether it's after this season or the next, the only guy with a long term deal will be Kevin Martin. With Brad and Bibby and Ron gone, we'll need to find star players somewhere to fill those roles and we're going to have to pay them. 12 million per is decent money for a starting big man in this league. Especially one who fills so many holes. And there'd still be more than enough money to make a max offer to whichever superstar player we want to target in 2010. It looks like a pretty good fit to me. I don't know if the logistics work out (might not have cap space in '09, Charlotte might want a sign and trade and we have nothing to offer them) but if we're just talking about talent here, Okafor would immediately make me a lot more optimistic about the future of this team.
 
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Just curious. You said 14/10/2. What is the 2? Its certainly not assists because he's a terrible passer and averages 2 turnovers for evey assist, so what the 2?
2 is a defensive stat, something we have no clue about around here.
 
2 = Blocks

And anyway, i would much rather have Wallace than Okafor if geoff could somehow pull it off

Then our Roster could be this (I wish!!):

PG Udrih/Brown or Singletary
SG Martin/Garcia/Douby
SF Wallace/Salmons/Garcia
PF Moore/Thompson
C Miller/Hawes

+ get rid of moore
 
Well you're right that Petrie puts an emphasis on getting big men who can pass and shoot, but there's more than one way to win a game of basketball. For years we've been a jumpshot dependent team, dominant when the shots are falling but prone to slumps of bad shooting nights. We keep saying we need a post scorer to balance the scoring load, and also to draw attention to the interior and help create open shots. If you remember that one series when we looked really good against San Antonio in the playoffs it was primarily Bonzi and Ron taking the ball into the post. Okafor is a post scorer as well as a rebounder and an interior defender. In other words, he represents everything that this team, as presently constructed, currently lacks.

At 6'10" his natural position is PF not C. He's played C in Charlotte because the other big men they've had are Primoz Brezec and Nazr Mohammed. Remember they also played Gerald Wallace at PF for two seasons, the same guy we drafted as a SG. Not every PF in the league has to have an outside jump shot. Considering we already have Hawes and Thompson who both can shoot the outside jumper, doesn't it make sense to fill out the front line with a low post scorer instead of another jump shooter? On top of that, he'd instantly be the best defender on our team and he's only 25 years old so he fits with the youth movement. And it's way premature to pencil Thompson and Hawes in as the starters of the future. Neither one projects as a star in the league (based on their draft position) and Thompson hasn't even played a game yet. Even best case scenario it's not unreasonable that one of them ends up a key bench guy. Okafor is a genuine starter right now and one of the best rebounders and defenders in the game.

And regarding the passing ability, I think it's a little unfair to look at a guy's assists statistics and say he can't pass. Who thought of Brad Miller as a passer before he got to Sacramento? I think coaching certainly plays a role here as well as the other players on the team and style of play. The Bobcats have had terrible coaching. I bet Okafor is probably a better passer than he ever gets a chance to show in Charlotte. And even if he's not, all he has to do is pass out of double teams. He doesn't necessarily need to nail behind the back bounce passes like Vlade and Chris to be effective in a passing offense. The only glaring weakness I see is his free throw shooting, but there's a long line of effective big men who can't shoot free throws as well as guys who have improved over time. I wouldn't call that a deal breaker, particularly when you're not going to count on him to be a primary scorer anyway.

When all those contracts do expire, whether it's after this season or the next, the only guy with a long term deal will be Kevin Martin. With Brad and Bibby and Ron gone, we'll need to find star players somewhere to fill those roles and we're going to have to pay them. 12 million per is decent money for a starting big man in this league. Especially one who fills so many holes. And there'd still be more than enough money to make a max offer to whichever superstar player we want to target in 2010. It looks like a pretty good fit to me. I don't know if the logistics work out (might not have cap space in '09, Charlotte might want a sign and trade and we have nothing to offer them) but if we're just talking about talent here, Okafor would immediately make me a lot more optimistic about the future of this team.

As I stated, I'm not saying it couldn't work, and maybe to clarify, I'm not saying I wouldn't want him on our team. I was simply stating that knowing Petrie, he's not inclined toward players that aren't good passers. I've seen Okafor play, and trust me he's not a good passer, and his problem is that he doesn't pass out of double teams well. he's also a player that is stuck in the post to be effective. He has no ability to take his man away from the basket to open the lane because his man simply won't guard him out there.

Now, I'm not saying you can't make it work. He certainly brings some things the Kings need, and maybe you just have to give up something on offense to gain something at the other end. And I'm not saying he can't play offense. He's a good post player offensively. Maybe its time we went in a different direction. But thats not up to me.
 
As I stated, I'm not saying it couldn't work, and maybe to clarify, I'm not saying I wouldn't want him on our team. I was simply stating that knowing Petrie, he's not inclined toward players that aren't good passers. I've seen Okafor play, and trust me he's not a good passer, and his problem is that he doesn't pass out of double teams well. he's also a player that is stuck in the post to be effective. He has no ability to take his man away from the basket to open the lane because his man simply won't guard him out there.

Now, I'm not saying you can't make it work. He certainly brings some things the Kings need, and maybe you just have to give up something on offense to gain something at the other end. And I'm not saying he can't play offense. He's a good post player offensively. Maybe its time we went in a different direction. But thats not up to me.

Unfortunately, I think you're probably right. It doesn't look like there'll be any other directions as long as Petrie's in charge. Which seems problematic because Reggie has indicated he'd like to go in a different direction (ie size and toughness) and so have the Maloofs (ie defense wins championships) but Petrie continues to ignore players who might push things in that direction in favor of finesse jumpshooters and passing big men who get pushed around down low.
 
2 = Blocks

And anyway, i would much rather have Wallace than Okafor if geoff could somehow pull it off

Then our Roster could be this (I wish!!):

PG Udrih/Brown or Singletary
SG Martin/Garcia/Douby
SF Wallace/Salmons/Garcia
PF Moore/Thompson
C Miller/Hawes

+ get rid of moore
That team doesnt make the playoffs and doesn't really do much for our future.
 
Unfortunately, I think you're probably right. It doesn't look like there'll be any other directions as long as Petrie's in charge. Which seems problematic because Reggie has indicated he'd like to go in a different direction (ie size and toughness) and so have the Maloofs (ie defense wins championships) but Petrie continues to ignore players who might push things in that direction in favor of finesse jumpshooters and passing big men who get pushed around down low.

Thompson is a pretty damn good rebounder, athlete, shotblocker, and one of the supposed reasons we picked him over Randolph is because he's bigger and tougher. We also traded for Shelden and we went out and drafted a defensive pass 1st PG, then we signed a defensive PG who can score(Bobby Brown). So I'm not really sure that's a fair criticism anymore.

You might point to the Beno/Moore MLE signings last 2 years, but with Ron/Mike/Kenny all on the team and trying to recover from Muss it probably really helped to have a chemistry guy. One of the main things Mikki brought to us was dunks, athleticism, and hustle. Also, as far as Beno goes, he was the best PG available. Having a good PG who knows your team and is willing to pass is important at any level, especially when you're trying to develop a group of young players and new guys over the next few years. It doesn't hurt that he's pretty young still and only just turned 26. He's only actually played 1 year really, because he never played much for SA. He and Kev have good chemistry and he knows what Reggie wants.

Our draft picks, trades(the young guy we got back was Shelden), and rumors point to rebuilding towards a team that's more athletic than before with good defensive role players. I'm not sure that this isn't more of a stereotype of Geoff that you guys are complaining about, rather than an actual problem.
 
Thompson is a pretty damn good rebounder, athlete, shotblocker, and one of the supposed reasons we picked him over Randolph is because he's bigger and tougher. We also traded for Shelden and we went out and drafted a defensive pass 1st PG, then we signed a defensive PG who can score(Bobby Brown). So I'm not really sure that's a fair criticism anymore.

Our draft picks, trades(the young guy we got back was Shelden), and rumors point to rebuilding towards a team that's more athletic than before with good defensive role players. I'm not sure that this isn't more of a stereotype of Geoff that you guys are complaining about, rather than an actual problem.

Regarding Thompson, he's bigger than Randolph but I don't know about tougher. Marreese Speights was available too. The main advantage Thompson has over those guys is shooting ability and passing. Speights is the better rebounder and both Randolph and Speights are more athletic than Thompson.

Shelden Williams has hardly played which makes me think he was more of a throw-in to make the deal work than an actual target.

Singletary's reputation is more of a scoring point guard than either a passer or a defender. That's how he was used in college. And anyway a 2nd round pick and an undrafted player signed to minimum contracts is hardly an indication of a change in philosophy. We gave Justin Williams a minimum deal too and he barely played.

It's possible that a change in philosophy is sinking in, but the deals so far don't necessarily add up to a trend towards defense and toughness yet. Signing Kevin Martin to a big extension and letting Ron Artest go would seem to indicate the opposite. My opinion of Geoff's front office strategy has materialized slowly over several off-seasons of signings and it's going to take more time to convince me he's doing something different.
 
Lots of unproven talent and next to no defense.

We're rebuilding. Of course there's going to be lots of unproven talent. As for defense, Wallace brings it on the perimeter. We'll see how Thomson does. What do you expect? We're not keeping Ron, or trading for Dwight Howard.
 
We're rebuilding. Of course there's going to be lots of unproven talent. As for defense, Wallace brings it on the perimeter. We'll see how Thomson does. What do you expect? We're not keeping Ron, or trading for Dwight Howard.
Wallace is not a great parameter defender. He is a good help defender but not a great overall defender. With a Hawes/ Thomas starting frontline I think we will get bullied from years to come. Defense is Thompson most glaring weakness. Adding an Okafur or another big that defends and cleans the board would be a nice compliment to Hawes/Thompson in a starting lineup. But when I look at those five I do not get excited about the future. However, when I look at Portland starting five of unproven talent I would get excited about that future.
 
Defense is Thompson most glaring weakness.

Based on what? I know it was only in the MAAC, but he was named Defensive Player of the Year twice, so I hardly think defense is a foreign concept to him. He needs to adjust to NBA level competition and get stronger, which is true of almost every rookie big man, but he has the size, quickness and agility to be a defensive factor. He will likely be a bit lost at times at first, but since we're talking about the future here, there's no reason to think he'll be a poor defender.
 
Based on what? I know it was only in the MAAC, but he was named Defensive Player of the Year twice, so I hardly think defense is a foreign concept to him. He needs to adjust to NBA level competition and get stronger, which is true of almost every rookie big man, but he has the size, quickness and agility to be a defensive factor. He will likely be a bit lost at times at first, but since we're talking about the future here, there's no reason to think he'll be a poor defender.
I'm not the only one who thinks this, how about a Sacbee beat writer.
http://www.sacbee.com/static/weblogs/sports/kings/archives/013992.html
 
His only assumption in that article is that Thompson will struggle defensively as a rookie because that's typical of rookies. He's not basing it on any specific attribute, and the whole article is simply playing the skeptic.
He looked beyond the rookie season in my estimation since he did mention the 2010 and even the 2011 season. My point though is unchanged, I am not the only one who has a concern about our bigs future as being able to stop anyone. Being soft is just no fun to watch.

As it relates to this thread, a guy like Okafur would complement these two real well.
 
He looked beyond the rookie season in my estimation since he did mention the 2010 and even the 2011 season. My point though is unchanged, I am not the only one who has a concern about our bigs future as being able to stop anyone. Being soft is just no fun to watch.

As it relates to this thread, a guy like Okafur would complement these two real well.


How in the hell did he look beyond his rookie season??? Can this guy see in the future. Since he is so highly skilled at fortune telling just see if he wrote how many games we win and what games we win and by how much so I can make a some bets.
 
How in the hell did he look beyond his rookie season??? Can this guy see in the future. Since he is so highly skilled at fortune telling just see if he wrote how many games we win and what games we win and by how much so I can make a some bets.
eh...Isn't he doing the exact same thing you are doing by thinking Thompson is going to be good into the future, only he does this with the Kings for a living. How the hell do you look beyond his rookie season???:rolleyes:
 
Det/sac/cha

Sacramento Kings


Incoming Players
Raymond Felton
Salary: $4,148,715 Years Remaining: 1

And Emeka Sign and trade starting at around 10 mil per season.


Outgoing Players: Mikki Moore, Ron Artest, Shelden Williams
Detroit Pistons



Incoming Players
Ron Artest
Salary: $7,400,000 Years Remaining: 1

Nazr Mohammed
Salary: $6,049,400 Years Remaining: 3

Outgoing Players: Rasheed Wallace


Charlotte Bobcats.



Incoming Players
Rasheed Wallace
Salary: $13,930,000 Years Remaining: 1

Mikki Moore
Salary: $5,632,200 Years Remaining: 2

Shelden Williams
Salary: $3,395,760 Years Remaining: 1

Outgoing Players: Raymond Felton, Nazr Mohammed, and Emeka


So Kings trade Moore Artest and Sheldon to get Felton and Emeka.

DET trade Wallace to get Artest and Nazi

Cha Trade Felton, Emeka, and Nazi (who is a long contract they don't want) for Wallace Moore and Williams.

The only hold up is that DET might as for more. Don't know how to sweeten it for them.

 
Sacramento Kings


Incoming Players
Raymond Felton
Salary: $4,148,715 Years Remaining: 1

And Emeka Sign and trade starting at around 10 mil per season.


Outgoing Players: Mikki Moore, Ron Artest, Shelden Williams
Detroit Pistons



Incoming Players
Ron Artest
Salary: $7,400,000 Years Remaining: 1

Nazr Mohammed
Salary: $6,049,400 Years Remaining: 3

Outgoing Players: Rasheed Wallace


Charlotte Bobcats.



Incoming Players
Rasheed Wallace
Salary: $13,930,000 Years Remaining: 1

Mikki Moore
Salary: $5,632,200 Years Remaining: 2

Shelden Williams
Salary: $3,395,760 Years Remaining: 1

Outgoing Players: Raymond Felton, Nazr Mohammed, and Emeka


So Kings trade Moore Artest and Sheldon to get Felton and Emeka.

DET trade Wallace to get Artest and Nazi

Cha Trade Felton, Emeka, and Nazi (who is a long contract they don't want) for Wallace Moore and Williams.

The only hold up is that DET might as for more. Don't know how to sweeten it for them.

i wanan throw up thinking about tying up 10 mill in meca. hes not worth that imo.
 
Oka will sign a 10 mil a year for sure. He is a double double every night. How is that not worht 10 mil? Through in 50% shooting and 2 blocks? And how would depth chartt issues be a problem for any team with this deal?
 
He looked beyond the rookie season in my estimation since he did mention the 2010 and even the 2011 season. My point though is unchanged, I am not the only one who has a concern about our bigs future as being able to stop anyone. Being soft is just no fun to watch.

As it relates to this thread, a guy like Okafur would complement these two real well.

You serious when you say Thompson's most glaring weakness is that he cannot defend? That's actually not true..

I have scouted Thompson for a couple years now, and Defense is not a weakness of his. At least not at the college level. I had to dig a lot to find a local feed now and then to watch Rider and I didn't get to see a ton of his games, but I was able to probably see as much as the "beat writer" for the Kings. Thompson will not disappoint on the defensive end.

Thompson is a decent man on man defender. There are questions as to if Thompson can play phisical enough, but in watching him for a couple years I notice he does fine not being the physical force. Thompson is also good outside the ket against players that shoot a lot of jumpers like Dirk. Thompson is also a decent weak side/help defender. You will see that Thompson will have an adjustment to make playing the more physical game in the NBA, but to say he's a bad defender w/o wathing him play a game in the NBA is laughable. He was a good college defender so I am not sure where people are getting that.
 
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I seem to remember a player who did nothing but defend and rebound well and still couldn't get into the rotation with solid minutes...


You're not talking about Justin Williams right? I think people were giving the guy too much credit for blocking a shot here and there, or getting a lot of boards. Williams was in fact a bad defender. The reason he is looking for a job is because he can only lock shots on the weak side, and rebound the ball. When a player cannot defend or shoot they will always have issues getting a job.
 
You're not talking about Justin Williams right? I think people were giving the guy too much credit for blocking a shot here and there, or getting a lot of boards. Williams was in fact a bad defender. The reason he is looking for a job is because he can only lock shots on the weak side, and rebound the ball. When a player cannot defend or shoot they will always have issues getting a job.
And Brad Miller, SAR, and Moore are more terrific post defenders? Even if he wasn't that great, he still had a better shot blocking and rebounding presence in the short time he got in than the guys who played more. And that point was in response to Sam's comment:

"No improvements in defense and rebounding, no move toward getting to the playoffs in 2010 or '11. The Kings know this. If Thompson defends and rebounds, he goes screaming past Moore. If Thompson at least competes in those areas, he gets good minutes and maybe even big minutes, depending on the health and trade status of Shareef Abdur-Rahim, Brad Miller and even Ron Artest."

The picture Sam paints is that the team is so desperate for rebounding and post defense that if JT is even competent in those areas, then that's enough to get him solid time in the rotation. My response was if the team had that attitude, then Williams would still be here because he proved he was competent in post defense and rebounding.
 
And Brad Miller, SAR, and Moore are more terrific post defenders? Even if he wasn't that great, he still had a better shot blocking and rebounding presence in the short time he got in than the guys who played more. And that point was in response to Sam's comment:

"No improvements in defense and rebounding, no move toward getting to the playoffs in 2010 or '11. The Kings know this. If Thompson defends and rebounds, he goes screaming past Moore. If Thompson at least competes in those areas, he gets good minutes and maybe even big minutes, depending on the health and trade status of Shareef Abdur-Rahim, Brad Miller and even Ron Artest."

The picture Sam paints is that the team is so desperate for rebounding and post defense that if JT is even competent in those areas, then that's enough to get him solid time in the rotation. My response was if the team had that attitude, then Williams would still be here because he proved he was competent in post defense and rebounding.


He did provide energy on the floor I will give him that, but he wasn't by any stretch a good defender.
 
He did provide energy on the floor I will give him that, but he wasn't by any stretch a good defender.
Again, did he not provide a stronger shot blocking presence in the post than Brad Miller, Mikki Moore, and SAR? Did he not provide solid rebounding in the time he got?

Did Williams not provide better post defense in that regard? A frontline player doesn't have to be a phenomenal 1 on 1 defender to be a good post defender. Look at Camby. He's not that great of a defender (like Duncan for example), but he provides a shot blocking presence.

Once again, the point is in direct response the Sam's quote about the team's needs. He paints a picture that the team is so deseperate for post defense and rebounding that an unproven rookie will automatically get solid minutes in the rotation if he can be an adequet defender and rebounder. My response to the posted article is that if that really was true, then Justin Williams, who provided adequet rebounding and post defense, would have had regular minutes in the rotation...but he didn't. Thus, Sam's point, in my opinion, is wrong.
 
Again, did he not provide a stronger shot blocking presence in the post than Brad Miller, Mikki Moore, and SAR? Did he not provide solid rebounding in the time he got?

Did Williams not provide better post defense in that regard? A frontline player doesn't have to be a phenomenal 1 on 1 defender to be a good post defender. Look at Camby. He's not that great of a defender (like Duncan for example), but he provides a shot blocking presence.

Once again, the point is in direct response the Sam's quote about the team's needs. He paints a picture that the team is so deseperate for post defense and rebounding that an unproven rookie will automatically get solid minutes in the rotation if he can be an adequet defender and rebounder. My response to the posted article is that if that really was true, then Justin Williams, who provided adequet rebounding and post defense, would have had regular minutes in the rotation...but he didn't. Thus, Sam's point, in my opinion, is wrong.

That's not defense though.. that's weak side shot blocking, and rebounding. I am talking about defending man on man or help. Let's face it. Williams was not the sharpest tool in the shed, and for some reason he just didn't get it when it came to help defense unless he was arriving late jumping over someone trying to get the blocked shot. He did provide energy though, and that can be a valuable asset too. The Kings were also a bit better on the boards with him in the game. His rebounding and shot blocking did not make up for his deficiencies though. IMO it actually hurt the team in a full court game (both O, and D) when Williams was out there. The longer he was out there the more you could see it..

Now to answer your questions...

1. Yes, he was a better shot blocker than Miller, Moore, and SAR.

2. Williams was a solid rebounder. The best per48 on the team.

3. Williams was not any good in the post. His assignment would constantly blow by him, or would back down Williams deep enough to get a close shot. If it was help D in the post Williams was constantly late trying to make up for it by flying into the picture getting a foul call which leads to 2 shots more often than saving a basket.

I think a lot of people were enamored with his shot blocking because as Kings fans we have not seen that in a long time that we assumed he was a good defender. Usually the two go hand in hand. JaVale McGee has that same issue. He can block shots, and he can rebound but he's one of the worst defenders I have ever seen (and I am a UNR alumni/buff). It was worse than Nick Fazekas in re: to all around D, and Fazekas was bad... McGee can shoot, and McGee can handle the ball. That's why McGee is here.. Plus he's 7'0 opposed to 6'9.

At this point Thompson is light years ahead of Williams defensively, and has a WAY higher BBall IQ which should help him learn the NBA game. Plus Thompson gives you offense, and ball handeling skills.

Thompson vs. Williams shows you the reason why one is struggling to make a name for himself, and a lottery pick which should be in the league for a long long time.


Also, I think Heuge is wrong. I totally forgot that Thompson was a DPOY... But being able to see him a few times you could see he was much smarter then these guys writing the articles are giving him credit for. Moore is a better defender at this point only because Thompson has not had the chance to play yet. Watching both the players they are VERY similar in re: to their styles on the D side of the court. They both stick in front of their men, and they both are very crafty which makes up for lack of upper body strength. That "beat writer" says it's a "wide margin" that Moore has the advantage.. It's probably not that wide. I do think Moore will start this year only to get Thompson used to the NBA life. Next year it's Thompson's job to lose though. If I read it right Heuge was saying Thompson was not a good defender, and wouldn't be in the NBA. That's just plain bull. There's no reason to believe that having a similar style to Moore. He will be fine.

The part that scares me is that Thompson does not make up for Hawes's shortcomings. Basically it would be like putting Hawes in with Moore... Thompson's style will not fit with Hawes's lack of style.
 
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