Dwight Howard :)

[est.1999]

You don't seem to understand how basketball works.

Just because he's the best big in today's game by default doesn't mean he's the best player out there. The guy couldn't even get past Atlanta. You don't seem to understand how basketball works. Anyone will tell you that a dominant big man is always more important to a basketball team than anything else, myself included, but Dwight is not that player. You're trying to plug him into a group of dominant big men that this game has seen, but he's not in the same class. I'm sorry, but try and understand that before you make ridiculous claims.

 

[Big Cuz 15]

it's hard to find 2 front court players that are dominant and can put the other teams big's in foul trouble like this. this would never happen but it's fun discussing it.

 

[Sac.1989]

We would have to sell it hard to Dwight, but i dont think its completely out of the realms of possibility that we have a chance at bringing him in considering what we can offer.

 

[rainmaker]

Sorry to be a downer but why would Dwight Howard agree to a sign and trade with us? If Orlando is actually willing to listen to offers they will probably have 15 teams knocking down their door.

Why would he? Why wouldn't he??? Sac has one of the best railroad museums in the world!

But seriously, I'd do the trade. Thornton would still be here, and with such a great inside presence, his shooting ability would be the perfect compliment. Better than Reke would until Reke shows he has a consistent jumper. Can you imagine the high-low game between Cousins and Dwight? It would be crazy. Cousins passing and Dwights finishing ability in the paint. Probably result in 5 dunks a game for Dwight.

 

[mr. moustache]

Just because he's the best big in today's game by default doesn't mean he's the best player out there. The guy couldn't even get past Atlanta. You don't seem to understand how basketball works. Anyone will tell you that a dominant big man is always more important to a basketball team than anything else, myself included, but Dwight is not that player. You're trying to plug him into a group of dominant big men that this game has seen, but he's not in the same class. I'm sorry, but try and understand that before you make ridiculous claims.

You obviously didn't watch the Atlanta series.

 

[est.1999]

You obviously didn't watch the Atlanta series.

Yes I did. I know the numbers he put up. But to say you'd take him over any player in the league is saying a lot when you can't get your team out of the first round. And it's not like they were playing a powerhouse. The problem with Dwight, like I've stated before, is that he can't run an offense. His post game is bad, unless he's looking to score individually because his post game doesn't involve finding teammates or running plays. It's just a power post-up while looking to score. And his freak athletic ability allows him to get plenty of rebounds, offensively and defensively, and he gets lots of easy buckets that way. Look, I'm not trying to say he's not a top 10-15 player in the league and that he's not the top center in the game, it's just that I feel his game is vastly overrated.

 

[rainmaker]

Yes I did. I know the numbers he put up. But to say you'd take him over any player in the league is saying a lot when you can't get your team out of the first round. And it's not like they were playing a powerhouse. The problem with Dwight, like I've stated before, is that he can't run an offense. His post game is bad, unless he's looking to score individually because his post game doesn't involve finding teammates or running plays. It's just a power post-up while looking to score. And his freak athletic ability allows him to get plenty of rebounds, offensively and defensively, and he gets lots of easy buckets that way. Look, I'm not trying to say he's not a top 10-15 player in the league and that he's not the top center in the game, it's just that I feel his game is vastly overrated.

You won't come close to a championship if Dwight is your best option on offense. He can lock down the paint on defense, and control the glass obviously. But you better have a seperate #1 scoring option to go deep. Jameer Nelson and J Richardon don't cut it. But I think in general Orl has made some horrendous moves with surrounding Dwight with talent. That will be why he leaves. Same with Lebron. Say what you want about the decision and all that, but Cle didn't do its job in surrounding him with talent. Should have pulled the trigger on that trade for Amare at the deadline, went with Jamison instead.

 

[est.1999]

True. That's why I side with lebron for leaving. The decision was kinda jacked up, but whatever. The cavs screwed that up royally and they have no one but themselves to blame for what transpired.

 

[Arco Arena]

Look, I'm not trying to say he's not a top 10-15 player in the league and that he's not the top center in the game, it's just that I feel his game is vastly overrated.

LOL, top 10-15 player? Please, name 10 players that you would rather have than Dwight Howard.

 

[est.1999]

Lebron, wade, rose, dirk, Kobe... Ok, he's like top 7-8. I was just throwing a number out there. But I'd take all of those guys before Dwight. Some say they'll take him over all those guys.

 

[dukeswh]

I'm down with this trade. I like Tyreke, but Howard is already a proven Superstar in the league.

For me, he is one of the top five players right now. And if you are going to build a team around a player, i'll pick him number 1 too. It's not because he is the best player out there, it's because it's much easier to build a team around someone like Dwight.

 

[mac]

Umm I would take obe in his prime, LeBron, Wade over Dwight. I would not take Derrick Rose over Dwight Howard, nor would I take Dirk over Howard because Dirk doesn't play D as well. Dallas covered that up with good team defense, but if you're talking about a draft where the rest of the players are not confirmed yet and there are no certainties, I'd rather go with the defense and rebounding and to a certain extent post presence in Dwight instead of taking a risk with Dirk defensively.

 

[est.1999]

That's because you guys are looking at it in a general sense. What makes you think that Dwight is that dominant two way big man that the league has produced throughout it's history. You wanna make this claim if he was Duncan or Shaq and I wouldn't even blink.

 

[RookieOfTheDay]

I'm down with this trade. I like Tyreke, but Howard is already a proven Superstar in the league.

For me, he is one of the top five players right now. And if you are going to build a team around a player, i'll pick him number 1 too. It's not because he is the best player out there, it's because it's much easier to build a team around someone like Dwight.

I was just saying the other day that if I could pick one player in the league to ad to the Kings it would be Howard. A lot of that has to do with the fact that I think him and Cousins would be unstoppable together. If the Kings didn't have Cousins, I might go with CP3, Durant, or LeBron instead.

 

[mr. moustache]

He's not the best player in the league, but if you had to pick one guy to start building around, you pick Dwight or Lebron. Defense and rebounding wins championships and he is the single most dominant player in the league in those areas. I would make him start shooting FTs underhanded.

 

[Tyndel]

That's because you guys are looking at it in a general sense. What makes you think that Dwight is that dominant two way big man that the league has produced throughout it's history. You wanna make this claim if he was Duncan or Shaq and I wouldn't even blink.

We aren't saying he is the most dominant of all time we are saying right now. Kobe is over the hill there are only a few people in the league right now you can put in the same conversation as Howard if a clean draft were done today for your first pick. Duncan is aging and Shaq is retired....

 

[Telemachus]

My biggest problem with Dwight Howard is that his offensive game has had almost no improvement since his 2nd year in the league. He just finished his 7th season. and while he is entering his prime, I see no indication that his game is going to improve any time soon. I know a lot of people consider him a superstar, but I am one of those fans who believe that "superstar" is thrown around too much nowadays. I just have a hard time calling a player a superstar when he can be shut down on the offensive end of the floor when teams put their mind to do so. He IS a great defensive player, but the game is still won by who puts the most points on the board. Their is a reason his teams go out in the playoffs every year, and is deficiencies on offense are a big part of it. The one season they went far in the playoffs, it had a lot to do with Hedo having his best season of his career and being the main cog in running their offense (letting Howard focus on defense).

 

[Tyndel]

Actually this year was good for him offensively. He upped his avg in scoring after learning to make his moves faster over the last off season. The last 1/2 of this season he was very aggressive on the offensive end of the floor. He was in the talk for MVP but as a 3rd player behind rose and james. Howard was much more assertive this year in demanding the ball which can be a problem with the orlando offense and he went from the nicest guy in the NBA to show a meaner side to him (I don't think I really like it) and it showed in the number of Ts he got.

I would label him a Superstar because you can put anyone around him and they can have a good season. I didn't understand why they were eliminated so easily but they had a better team this year then the playoffs showed.


Most of the problems with him being "shut down" was Orlando forgetting he was on the floor not getting him the ball and him not demanding it.

 

[dukeswh]

Actually this year was good for him offensively. He upped his avg in scoring after learning to make his moves faster over the last off season. The last 1/2 of this season he was very aggressive on the offensive end of the floor. He was in the talk for MVP but as a 3rd player behind rose and james. Howard was much more assertive this year in demanding the ball which can be a problem with the orlando offense and he went from the nicest guy in the NBA to show a meaner side to him (I don't think I really like it) and it showed in the number of Ts he got.

I would label him a Superstar because you can put anyone around him and they can have a good season. I didn't understand why they were eliminated so easily but they had a better team this year then the playoffs showed.


Most of the problems with him being "shut down" was Orlando forgetting he was on the floor not getting him the ball and him not demanding it.

Agreed.

Just think about it, as some people say, Howard has offensive deficiencies yet he averages 23+ points per game with teams trying to shut him down. If you surround him with better players and a very good PG, he would be a monster.

 

[rainmaker]

My biggest problem with Dwight Howard is that his offensive game has had almost no improvement since his 2nd year in the league. He just finished his 7th season. and while he is entering his prime, I see no indication that his game is going to improve any time soon. I know a lot of people consider him a superstar, but I am one of those fans who believe that "superstar" is thrown around too much nowadays. I just have a hard time calling a player a superstar when he can be shut down on the offensive end of the floor when teams put their mind to do so. He IS a great defensive player, but the game is still won by who puts the most points on the board. Their is a reason his teams go out in the playoffs every year, and is deficiencies on offense are a big part of it. The one season they went far in the playoffs, it had a lot to do with Hedo having his best season of his career and being the main cog in running their offense (letting Howard focus on defense).

Dwight added a fair amount to his game the last couple years. No he's not a high post player, but he's much tougher to guard, and more skilled offensively. He's got a bank shot from the angle out to about 18ft. He improved his left had greatly. Hooks, drop steps, step throughs can now be done with both hands. He has better footwork.

You can't win a ring with dwight as your 1st option. As a 2nd or 3rd, with 2 other nightly scoring threat, you could. Orl didn't lose, and hasn't lost because of Dwight. Are you crazy? The only reason they win over 30 games a year is because of Dwight. Suround him with something besides over the hill, broken down vets, and Nelson. You're also ignoring the defensive end of the floor if you think he's the reason they exit early. He's the most dominant defender in the league. His defense keeps them in the game by itself. Then he puts up 20, 30, even 40+ pts, and you blame him, while Hedo, Arenas, and Nelson combined to average 30 pts in the playoffs.

 

[Sac.1989]

I agree. Do we favour Tyreke or DC as that 1st option though? Traditionally the Guard and Center/Forward combination do well in the league. Not many teams build off a dominance on the inside (though thats not arguing it wouldnt work), thinking LA though they do have kobe and Memphis to a lessor extent with Zach and Marc though they do have Gay.

 

[Telemachus]

Dwight added a fair amount to his game the last couple years. No he's not a high post player, but he's much tougher to guard, and more skilled offensively. He's got a bank shot from the angle out to about 18ft. He improved his left had greatly. Hooks, drop steps, step throughs can now be done with both hands. He has better footwork.

I agree that Dwight has improved his offense, but think it is only marginally. The biggest difference that I have seen is the has been a bit more aggressive the past couple years which has led to more FTs.

You can't win a ring with dwight as your 1st option. As a 2nd or 3rd, with 2 other nightly scoring threat, you could. Orl didn't lose, and hasn't lost because of Dwight. Are you crazy? The only reason they win over 30 games a year is because of Dwight. Suround him with something besides over the hill, broken down vets, and Nelson. You're also ignoring the defensive end of the floor if you think he's the reason they exit early. He's the most dominant defender in the league. His defense keeps them in the game by itself. Then he puts up 20, 30, even 40+ pts, and you blame him, while Hedo, Arenas, and Nelson combined to average 30 pts in the playoffs.

I wasn't saying that Orlando lost because of Dwight, but because he has been their #1 option on offense when I don't seen as ever being better than a 2nd or 3rd option (while anchoring the defense) on a championship team. That is why I have trouble seeing him as a "superstar". He doesn't have quite enough IMO to take a team to a championship without another "superstar" playing with him. I think he is a star player and one of the best in the league but not a superstar (much like I don't think CWebb ever quite reached superstar status).

Maybe I am just being picky about a word, but I thinik it is thrown around too much. IMO, there are on average about 3 - 5 superstars in the league at any given time (obiously it varies some).

 

[Telemachus]

I agree. Do we favour Tyreke or DC as that 1st option though? Traditionally the Guard and Center/Forward combination do well in the league. Not many teams build off a dominance on the inside (though thats not arguing it wouldnt work), thinking LA though they do have kobe and Memphis to a lessor extent with Zach and Marc though they do have Gay.

Ideally, you work your offense through the low post threat (Cousins in this case). Once he has established that he can score, it opens up the court for everyone else (whether they want to drive the lane or shoot from the outside).

 

[Asaf]

I agree that Dwight has improved his offense, but think it is only marginally. The biggest difference that I have seen is the has been a bit more aggressive the past couple years which has led to more FTs.



I wasn't saying that Orlando lost because of Dwight, but because he has been their #1 option on offense when I don't seen as ever being better than a 2nd or 3rd option (while anchoring the defense) on a championship team. That is why I have trouble seeing him as a "superstar". He doesn't have quite enough IMO to take a team to a championship without another "superstar" playing with him. I think he is a star player and one of the best in the league but not a superstar (much like I don't think CWebb ever quite reached superstar status).

Maybe I am just being picky about a word, but I thinik it is thrown around too much. IMO, there are on average about 3 - 5 superstars in the league at any given time (obiously it varies some).

LeFlop couldn't get a ring as a first option and failed to get one even as a 3rd option in the last NBA finals. Would you have trouble seeing him as a superstar as well?

 

[Telemachus]

LeFlop couldn't get a ring as a first option and failed to get one even as a 3rd option in the last NBA finals. Would you have trouble seeing him as a superstar as well?

LeBron didn't win in Cleveland because his supporting cast wasn't good enough. As this season, he didn't play like a superstar in the Finals. Superstars don't make themselves into the 3rd option when they are clearly the best player on the floor. They also don't disappear in the 4th quarter repeatedly.

All that being said, you missed my point. LeBron is a player that you can build a team around offensively. The fact that he played below the level of his abilities does not change that. Dwight Howard has never shown the ability to be a player that a team can build their offense around (he also doesn't make his teammates better on offense). It is NOT that Howard isn't a very good player that does his best, it is more that he needs to be the 2nd or 3rd option (IMO) for his team to win a championship.

Failure to live up to expectations and not having the ability to have those expectations are 2 different things.

 

[est.1999]

LeBron didn't win in Cleveland because his supporting cast wasn't good enough. As this season, he didn't play like a superstar in the Finals. Superstars don't make themselves into the 3rd option when they are clearly the best player on the floor. They also don't disappear in the 4th quarter repeatedly.

All that being said, you missed my point. LeBron is a player that you can build a team around offensively. The fact that he played below the level of his abilities does not change that. Dwight Howard has never shown the ability to be a player that a team can build their offense around (he also doesn't make his teammates better on offense). It is NOT that Howard isn't a very good player that does his best, it is more that he needs to be the 2nd or 3rd option (IMO) for his team to win a championship.

Failure to live up to expectations and not having the ability to have those expectations are 2 different things.

Bingo!

Anyone who would take Dwight freakin Howard over any other player has completely lost their mind, I'm sorry.

 

[Asaf]

LeBron didn't win in Cleveland because his supporting cast wasn't good enough. As this season, he didn't play like a superstar in the Finals. Superstars don't make themselves into the 3rd option when they are clearly the best player on the floor. They also don't disappear in the 4th quarter repeatedly.

All that being said, you missed my point. LeBron is a player that you can build a team around offensively. The fact that he played below the level of his abilities does not change that. Dwight Howard has never shown the ability to be a player that a team can build their offense around (he also doesn't make his teammates better on offense). It is NOT that Howard isn't a very good player that does his best, it is more that he needs to be the 2nd or 3rd option (IMO) for his team to win a championship.

Failure to live up to expectations and not having the ability to have those expectations are 2 different things.

How exactly do you build a team around LeFlop offensively? The dude is USELESS when he doesn't have the ball in his hands. The only thing you can put around him is shooters, and that's what they did in Cleveland, so then there's the excuse that the supporting cast wasn't good enough... Well, he got Wade and Bosh and he got lost in the finals. He had his moments against the old and injured Celtics, and against the young and dumb Bulls (running the clock down with over 5 minutes to go with a 12 pt lead? you gotta be kidding me), but just like in previous years, when faced with a serious opponent, he crumbled and started making excuses.

If you think LeFlop had a bad supporting cast, Dwight's supporting cast in Orlando is a complete joke. He took that team to the NBA finals with Hedo Turkoglu as the second best player on that team! If anything, Dwight is 10 times better to build a team around because he gives you 23-27 points and 13-15 rebounds (and a couple of blocked shots) without needing to dominate the ball, therefore allowing additional players with offensive capabilities to make significant contributions (if Orlando ever get players like that...).

 

[Asaf]

Bingo!

Anyone who would take Dwight freakin Howard over any other player has completely lost their mind, I'm sorry.

You're right. I'm sure you, David Kahn, and Joe Dumars would take Darko before Dwight...

 

[est.1999]

To your nonsense comment above, you give credit to Howard taking the magic to the finals but don't give credit for James taking an NBDL team to the finals? Please explain this.

Maybe you never watched Duncan, Shaq, Hakeem, etc... play but I think you compare their career numbers and you think they're equivalent when it comes to dominant big man.

 

[Asaf]

To your nonsense comment above, you give credit to Howard taking the magic to the finals but don't give credit for James taking an NBDL team to the finals? Please explain this.

Maybe you never watched Duncan, Shaq, Hakeem, etc... play but I think you compare their career numbers and you think they're equivalent when it comes to dominant big man.

Howard's supporting cast was far worse than LeFlop's.

And yes, I know he's not Shaq, Duncan, Hakeem, or Kareem or Bill Russell for that matter, but he is by far the best big man in the game today, and he is the perfect piece to build a contending team around. If Miami traded LeFlop straight up to Orlando for Dwight, it would be over for the league for years to come. Dwight and Wade are far more compatible than the current superfriends, because Dwight can still be effective when Wade has the ball in his hands, whereas LeFlop just stands around or at best pretends that an opposing player just stabbed him with a knife and cries to the refs.