Does Thabeet make sense now?

[Bricklayer]

Their worth today? Well, you're talking about a seven year veteran from a championship team. I think Kendrick Perkins fits in well with the Celtics blue-collar style, but he isn't worth a lottery pick to anyone but the Celtics, really. Beyond that, you KNOW what Perkins is. You'd be hoping with Thabeet.

a) you are rather dramatically overselling lottery picks, in particular lottery picks after the top 5 or so. Half of those guys don't end up having any impact at all.

b) somewhat surprisingly you are rather dramtically underselling the absolutely critical interior shotblocker/defender role, of which there are realtively few individuals, thus explaining why they are routinely paid such huge amounts.

c) this year's lottery, the one in question, is going to see players like Ed David and Cole Aldrich going in the back half of the top 10. Not some mythical everybody gets an All Star lottery, this year's lottery. When that's your situation, when your need is precisely for a defensive/shotblocking presence inside, when by the back half of the top 10 blatant roleplayers are going to be drafted, Thabeet is right there.

d) as an aside, people spend so much time making up random stuff to throw at Thabeet I sometimes don't know where the truth ends and the puffing begins, but are you actually trying to argue that big centers are not a lottery fixture? They are the rarest thing in the game beyond high level stars.

 

[NME]

Their worth today? Well, you're talking about a seven year veteran from a championship team. I think Kendrick Perkins fits in well with the Celtics blue-collar style, but he isn't worth a lottery pick to anyone but the Celtics, really. Beyond that, you KNOW what Perkins is. You'd be hoping with Thabeet.

He's still 25 and has some qualities that are hard to find, even among some of the supposed "defensive big men" out there. This tangent doesn't shed too much light on Thabeet, but I thought you were underselling Perkins a bit.

 

[Superman]

You really think so? If he were a top three pick, then yes. But a guy who puts up 11/8/2 in under 30 minutes and is one of those rare big men who actually plays solid individual post defense in addition to helping is more than a lot of top ten picks turn out to be.

Andrew Bynum was the 10th pick. He's a 15/8/1.5 guy who has shown that he can actually be a lot more. And even before his big extension, he got a lot of criticism, even with his crazy freak injuries. And I'm not just talking about Laker fan "our centers all get compared to Kareem and Shaq" delusional criticism, either.

Brook Lopez was the 10th pick, and he's a 19/9/2 guy in his second year.

Just because a lot of big men taken with lottery picks bust doesn't mean that you only hope for 11/8/2 out of a big man you take with a lottery pick. I think if Perkins were taken top ten, he'd be considered an underachiever. And I think he gets a lot of pub because a) he plays a role for the Celtics, and b) he seemingly came out of nowhere, from a guy who no one was sure if he'd be able to stay in the NBA to a regular contributor on a championship team.

 

[Superman]

a) you are ratehr dramatically overselling lottery picks, in particular lottery picks after the top 5 or so

I already named Brook Lopez and Andrew Bynum, both #10 picks, both better than Thabeet. Not that you can expect to have a really good big man just because he's a lottery pick, but I don't think it's unreasonable to hope for more than just a one dimensional shot blocker, either.

Like I said, you tell me that he's gonna be Mutombo in a couple years, and I'll be more willing, but I'll still grimace a little bit. Problem is, I don't think Thabeet is going to be Mutombo. Could be wrong, of course.

b) somewhat surprisingly you are rather dramtically underselling the absolutely critical interior shotblocker/defender role, of which there are realtively few individuals, thus explainign why they are routinely paid such huge amounts.

You're absolutely right. Most don't have such glaring holes in the rest of their game as Thabeet does. And these are the same questions people had about him before the draft.

c) this year's lottery, the onte in question, is going to see players like Ed David and Cole Aldrich going in the back half of the top 10. Not some mythical everybody gets an All Star lottery, this year's lottery. When that's your situation, when your need is precisely for a defensive/shotblocking presence inside, when by the back half of the top 10 blatant roleplayers are going to be drafted, Thabeet is right there.

I think both Davis and Aldrich have higher ceilings than Thabeet. He himself is a "blatant roleplayer". And it's not like your Oden argument, where the guy has shown that he can be an impact player in the NBA. We don't know much more about Thabeet than we did a year ago, unless we're starting to know that he's NOT going to be an impact player. I'm not willing to write him off at this point, but he's not exactly proven himself, making his overall worth over Davis and Aldrich still in question. Aside from his size, he's not got a lot to brag about in comparison with those two.

d) as an aside, people spend so much time making up random stuff to throw at Thabeet I sometimes don't know where the truth ends and the puffing begins, but are you actually trying to argue that big centers are not a lottery fixture? They are the rarest thing in the game beyond high level stars.

Thabeet himself was the second pick, right? I don't know where you get the idea that I'm arguing that big centers aren't routinely picked in the lottery. I'm arguing that I think you can get more than a one dimensional shot blocker in the lottery, so unless you EXPECT Thabeet to be an absolutely dominant -- but still one dimensional, in all likelihood -- shot blocker, a lottery pick is a high price to pay.

 

[Capt. Factorial]

The whole Thabeet discussion may be missing the forest for the trees. Remember last year, when we had the #4 pick, Petrie didn't even bring Thabeet out for a workout. That suggests that either 1) he was 100% convinced Thabeet would be taken before #4, or 2) he wasn't particularly interested in Thabeet at #4.

Given that Griffin was #1, and Rubio, Evans, and Harden were in the mix for top-3 picks (along with, possibly, Flynn, Curry, Jennings and maybe DeRozan and Hill) it was probably far from a given, at least early on in the draft process, that Thabeet was top-3. So I lean towards the latter explanation.

And no matter how many laments are sung here about how Petrie hates shot-blocking centers, it doesn't change the fact that Petrie didn't appear to be too interested in Thabeet, and there's not much reason to believe he would trade a non-top-5 pick in this draft to get him. Especially when there are going to be big men likely available in the 6-10 range (Aldrich, Monroe) who in addition to having defensive potential also possess the shooting and passing abilities that Petrie seems to admire in big men. I just don't think a trade for Thabeet is in the cards at all.

 

[bajaden]

Damn, Boston is screwed too:

Perkins 2.9hnd 8.9blk 30.1reb
Thabeet 2.8hnd 17.0blk 28.1reb


That's what we're talking about here. Not bleeping Vlade Divac. Purebred interior defender. Why people have fought that so hard in Thabeet's case I do not know. There certianly seems to have been some double standard applied with him.

I'm not applying a double standard. I watched the guy play around 25 times in college. Now I could just say that and leave my conclusions, but I tried to give some statistical reasons to go along. I have no dog in this hunt. I have nothing against him personally. Don't you think that if I thought he would be a terrific player I would say so? I don't waste my time just trying to disagree with you or anyone else. Now you can see what you want him to be, or you can see him for what he really is. I've probably watched, or tried to watch him play at least 10 games this year. Take the dude away from the basket and he's freaking lost. This isn't college where you can just grow roots in the paint and play goaltender.

My point on this thread isn't about whether or not I would like to have him on the team. I would! But I'm not going to give up a high draft pick to get him. Thats just plain stupid. You want to give up a first in 2012, I'm on board. An unprotected second round pick this year. I'm on board. You want to trade Sean May for him. I'm on board. But anything in the top ten this year, you lose me. Sorry, he's just not worth that. At least not now.

 

[BMiller52]

Andrew Bynum was the 10th pick. He's a 15/8/1.5 guy who has shown that he can actually be a lot more. And even before his big extension, he got a lot of criticism, even with his crazy freak injuries. And I'm not just talking about Laker fan "our centers all get compared to Kareem and Shaq" delusional criticism, either.

Brook Lopez was the 10th pick, and he's a 19/9/2 guy in his second year.

Just because a lot of big men taken with lottery picks bust doesn't mean that you only hope for 11/8/2 out of a big man you take with a lottery pick. I think if Perkins were taken top ten, he'd be considered an underachiever. And I think he gets a lot of pub because a) he plays a role for the Celtics, and b) he seemingly came out of nowhere, from a guy who no one was sure if he'd be able to stay in the NBA to a regular contributor on a championship team.

Spencer Hawes was the 10th pick and he averages 10/6/1blk despite having nobody in front of him. Brandon Wright was the 8th pick and hasn't done anything except get banged up. You took 2 of the best lottery big man to come out in the last few years, and there have been just as many guys like Spencer and Wright who haven't panned out.

 

[Superman]

Spencer Hawes was the 10th pick and he averages 10/6/1blk despite having nobody in front of him. Brandon Wright was the 8th pick and hasn't done anything except get banged up. You took 2 of the best lottery big man to come out in the last few years, and there have been just as many guys like Spencer and Wright who haven't panned out.

How do most Kings fans feel about Spencer Hawes? Worth a top ten pick? I think the overwhelming consensus would be no. He was a reach at the time, and hasn't justified being selected that high. There's not much to say about Brandon Wright because he hasn't really played, but he's more talented than Thabeet, that's for sure. You're not expecting Wright to be a one-dimensional player. Nothing wrong with being a one-dimensional player, but you better dominate at that one aspect of the game if you expect to stay in the league, and if you're going to trade for a second year player who showed nothing of promise his limited role in year one, you'd be hoping that he becomes dominant pretty fast.

All I'm saying is that when you draft a big man in the top ten, you're hoping he can be a player that will make his mark in the NBA and play a considerable role on your team for many years. Maybe you're not expecting him to become the bedrock of the franchise, but you're also not expecting a guy who only plays ten minutes a game and is really only good for blocking shots. If Memphis is really willing to move Thabeet this soon, it kind of says something about him. If they thought that he could be a dominant shot blocker and stay on the floor long enough to impact the game, if they thought he was worth waiting on, why were they trying to trade him for another scorer? Dominant shot blocker > scorer, right? It makes you wonder. If Memphis is regretting picking Thabeet (when they could have had Curry or Evans), and they see him in practice every day, maybe it's possible to get better value for your top ten pick in this year's draft. Maybe it's not the richest draft class, but surely you can do better than a one-dimensional shot blocker who can't stay on the floor, no?

Edit: My original point was that Kendrick Perkins as a late first rounder looks like a really good find. Take the same player and put him in the top ten of the draft, look at his statline, and realize that he's been in the league for almost seven years, and you start to wonder if he was worth the high pick. Especially when he was essentially a non factor for the first three years of his career. I'm not knocking Perkins. I just don't think 11/8/2 is what you hope for when you take a big man in the top ten of the draft.

 

[hammystyle]

I'd keep the pick and trade JT or Hawes for him. Memphis saves money in the short run to resign Gay this year and Gasol next year. JT fits in perfect for them as a backup and someone who can play with Randolph in a small ball lineup. We get the rim defender we need and a good platoon with Hawes until one of them emerges. At the 4 we'd have Landry, and the opportunity to get a two-way star in the draft there.

 

[upinsmoke]

Heck no the kid got no skills LOL. He's nothing more then a slow moving target for Slashers he is going to be dunked on so many times before his career is over.

 

[Superman]

Heck no the kid got no skills LOL. He's nothing more then a slow moving target for Slashers he is going to be dunked on so many times before his career is over.

I wonder how many times Dikembe got dunked on. I'd guess more than most. Same for storied shotblockers like David Robinson, Patrick Ewing, Ben Wallace, etc., etc.

 

[bajaden]

I'd keep the pick and trade JT or Hawes for him. Memphis saves money in the short run to resign Gay this year and Gasol next year. JT fits in perfect for them as a backup and someone who can play with Randolph in a small ball lineup. We get the rim defender we need and a good platoon with Hawes until one of them emerges. At the 4 we'd have Landry, and the opportunity to get a two-way star in the draft there.

I just don't get how anyone can place such a high value on Thabeet. He has one real skill. Shotblocking. If you were to trade Hawes, who would play center? Thabeet can't start in the NBA. Right now he's hardly a good backup. Has anyone taken the time to watch him play this year?

On one hand I'm being told he's worth a top ten pick, or, a starter on our team. On the other hand I'm being told that he can't get any minutes because Gasol is so good they can't take him off the floor. His minutes as the year has progressed have started to go down, not up. In the month of Feburary so far for nine games he's averaged 6.6 minutes a game. I mean do you really want to give up a player like Thompson thats been averaging around 30 minutes a game for a player thats averaging 6.6 minutes a game. Oh well, just my opinion. Its not going to happen anyway, so I'm not going to worry about it.

 

[Sptsjunkie]

Heck no the kid got no skills LOL. He's nothing more then a slow moving target for Slashers he is going to be dunked on so many times before his career is over.

Huh? Slow moving? There are plenty of reasons to question Thabeet, but he is very quick for a player his size. We aren't talking about Aaron Gray here.

 

[Sptsjunkie]

I just don't get how anyone can place such a high value on Thabeet. He has one real skill. Shotblocking. If you were to trade Hawes, who would play center? Thabeet can't start in the NBA. Right now he's hardly a good backup. Has anyone taken the time to watch him play this year?

On one hand I'm being told he's worth a top ten pick, or, a starter on our team. On the other hand I'm being told that he can't get any minutes because Gasol is so good they can't take him off the floor. His minutes as the year has progressed have started to go down, not up. In the month of Feburary so far for nine games he's averaged 6.6 minutes a game. I mean do you really want to give up a player like Thompson thats been averaging around 30 minutes a game for a player thats averaging 6.6 minutes a game. Oh well, just my opinion. Its not going to happen anyway, so I'm not going to worry about it.

Baja, let me ask you this. You don't sound high on Thabeet for a top 10 pick. However, what is we could get him for a lesser asset and cap space. I floated earlier in this thread that as the draft/free agency approaches Memphis may need more of a gap from the luxury tax/financial flexibility to resign Rudy Gay who is much more critical to their continued success than a 3rd big. We could potentially absorb Thabeet's 5 million for the next 2-3 years and give Memphis a 2nd round pick or future protected 1st rounder. I was down on him like you for the draft this year (especially for our #4 when we had no superstar). However, for the right price, he seems worth the gamble. His upside as a defensive difference-maker who can grab O-boards and not demand touches on O would be helpful for our team.

 

[ParniValjak]

How do most Kings fans feel about Spencer Hawes? Worth a top ten pick? I think the overwhelming consensus would be no. He was a reach at the time, and hasn't justified being selected that high.

Now that is just plain wrong! Everyone at the time had Spencer going in the 5-12 range and in fact most of the experts had him in the top 10. Many though he would go to Chicago at pick 9 so to say that he was a reach at the time when he got picked at 10 is just plain wrong.

I think you might be confusing Hawes with Thompson. JT was considered to be a pick in the 20s but we picked him up at 12. Later on it turned out that if we didn't pick him at 12, the Warriors were keen at 14.

 

[Gary]

I'm not applying a double standard. I watched the guy play around 25 times in college. Now I could just say that and leave my conclusions, but I tried to give some statistical reasons to go along. I have no dog in this hunt. I have nothing against him personally. Don't you think that if I thought he would be a terrific player I would say so? I don't waste my time just trying to disagree with you or anyone else. Now you can see what you want him to be, or you can see him for what he really is. I've probably watched, or tried to watch him play at least 10 games this year. Take the dude away from the basket and he's freaking lost. This isn't college where you can just grow roots in the paint and play goaltender.

My point on this thread isn't about whether or not I would like to have him on the team. I would! But I'm not going to give up a high draft pick to get him. Thats just plain stupid. You want to give up a first in 2012, I'm on board. An unprotected second round pick this year. I'm on board. You want to trade Sean May for him. I'm on board. But anything in the top ten this year, you lose me. Sorry, he's just not worth that. At least not now.

I do.. He sucks, and played for UCONN

 

[Superman]

Now that is just plain wrong! Everyone at the time had Spencer going in the 5-12 range and in fact most of the experts had him in the top 10. Many though he would go to Chicago at pick 9 so to say that he was a reach at the time when he got picked at 10 is just plain wrong.

I think you might be confusing Hawes with Thompson. JT was considered to be a pick in the 20s but we picked him up at 12. Later on it turned out that if we didn't pick him at 12, the Warriors were keen at 14.

Reach is the wrong term. I think most mock drafts had him going #9 to the Bulls, and had us drafting Noah #10. I didn't mean that we took him earlier than he was projected to go. I meant that it was questionable whether he'd live up to being the tenth pick in the draft. It wasn't a particularly deep draft after the first couple of players. Yi Jianlian was a top five pick. Corey Brewer and Julian Wright haven't done anything.

And even though he was projected to go top ten, looking back, we could have traded down and wound up with Marc Gasol and Carl Landry (hindsight is 20/20, but the point is that Hawes wasn't a high value for the 10th pick).

 

[bajaden]

Baja, let me ask you this. You don't sound high on Thabeet for a top 10 pick. However, what is we could get him for a lesser asset and cap space. I floated earlier in this thread that as the draft/free agency approaches Memphis may need more of a gap from the luxury tax/financial flexibility to resign Rudy Gay who is much more critical to their continued success than a 3rd big. We could potentially absorb Thabeet's 5 million for the next 2-3 years and give Memphis a 2nd round pick or future protected 1st rounder. I was down on him like you for the draft this year (especially for our #4 when we had no superstar). However, for the right price, he seems worth the gamble. His upside as a defensive difference-maker who can grab O-boards and not demand touches on O would be helpful for our team.

I stated earlier that I would love to have him to see if he could develop into a solid player to have on the floor for more than just shotblocking. So yes, I would give up something for his rights. I just wouldn't give up a top ten pick this year. How about we give up a first round pick, top 20 protected. I don't know when that pick would be available, but whenever it would, it would mean were back in the playoffs and competitive.

I said before the draft that I didn't think that Thabeet should go any higher than 15. But that I thought some idiot would take a gamble on him with a high pick. I don't dislike him. He seems a likable guy who wants to suceed. Its just going to take time. When you take someone with the second pick in the draft, you expect him to be able to contribute on a regular basis. Don't you think they would rather have Evans right now? They drafted for need, and they lost in the short term. If I were them, I would keep Thabeet and be patient. But thats just me.

 

[bajaden]

I do.. He sucks, and played for UCONN

Short and concise, with a bit of brevity! Well done!

 

[bajaden]

Reach is the wrong term. I think most mock drafts had him going #9 to the Bulls, and had us drafting Noah #10. I didn't mean that we took him earlier than he was projected to go. I meant that it was questionable whether he'd live up to being the tenth pick in the draft. It wasn't a particularly deep draft after the first couple of players. Yi Jianlian was a top five pick. Corey Brewer and Julian Wright haven't done anything.

And even though he was projected to go top ten, looking back, we could have traded down and wound up with Marc Gasol and Carl Landry (hindsight is 20/20, but the point is that Hawes wasn't a high value for the 10th pick).

I'm going to admit that I was wrong about Marc Gasol. The first time I saw him play he was slow and methodical. But with his weight loss and the work he's put in on his game he has really improved. Thats the problem with drafting big men. Except for the rare occasion, its almost always a crapshoot. And there are always surprises.

 

[Sptsjunkie]

I stated earlier that I would love to have him to see if he could develop into a solid player to have on the floor for more than just shotblocking. So yes, I would give up something for his rights. I just wouldn't give up a top ten pick this year. How about we give up a first round pick, top 20 protected. I don't know when that pick would be available, but whenever it would, it would mean were back in the playoffs and competitive.

I said before the draft that I didn't think that Thabeet should go any higher than 15. But that I thought some idiot would take a gamble on him with a high pick. I don't dislike him. He seems a likable guy who wants to suceed. Its just going to take time. When you take someone with the second pick in the draft, you expect him to be able to contribute on a regular basis. Don't you think they would rather have Evans right now? They drafted for need, and they lost in the short term. If I were them, I would keep Thabeet and be patient. But thats just me.

Agree 100%

 

[ParniValjak]

Reach is the wrong term. I think most mock drafts had him going #9 to the Bulls, and had us drafting Noah #10. I didn't mean that we took him earlier than he was projected to go. I meant that it was questionable whether he'd live up to being the tenth pick in the draft. It wasn't a particularly deep draft after the first couple of players. Yi Jianlian was a top five pick. Corey Brewer and Julian Wright haven't done anything.

And even though he was projected to go top ten, looking back, we could have traded down and wound up with Marc Gasol and Carl Landry (hindsight is 20/20, but the point is that Hawes wasn't a high value for the 10th pick).

Well if we measure anything in with hindsight, no one would ever make a mistake in their life.

Fact is that Hawes was a consesus top 10 pick and thats all across the board. Every team would have him as a top 10 on their big board. Whether that turns out to be true down the track is another story. Pick 10 is just a number and its value greatly depends on the depth of the draft. In some years, top 10 pick is a better value than #1 in other years.

The point is that for his draft class, you can very easily justify that Hawes still is good value for a top 10 pick. Landry had question marks on his knee and Gasol was widely unknown. When you take every thing into account at the time and when you consider the production of that draft class and the draft pool depth, Hawes was not a reach at 10. He is roughly 10th best player out of that draft. You are always going to get steals in the 2nd round where the unknown comes out and develops out of sight (eg Ginobili)

 

[Superman]

Well if we measure anything in with hindsight, no one would ever make a mistake in their life.

Fact is that Hawes was a consesus top 10 pick and thats all across the board. Every team would have him as a top 10 on their big board. Whether that turns out to be true down the track is another story. Pick 10 is just a number and its value greatly depends on the depth of the draft. In some years, top 10 pick is a better value than #1 in other years.

The point is that for his draft class, you can very easily justify that Hawes still is good value for a top 10 pick. Landry had question marks on his knee and Gasol was widely unknown. When you take every thing into account at the time and when you consider the production of that draft class and the draft pool depth, Hawes was not a reach at 10. He is roughly 10th best player out of that draft. You are always going to get steals in the 2nd round where the unknown comes out and develops out of sight (eg Ginobili)

I don't think he is the tenth best player out of the draft. You're right that the depth of the draft is more important than what we're used to seeing as a 10th pick.

Anyways, the original point was that I don't think Thabeet is worth a top ten draft pick this year. And that's because, there's guys like Andrew Bynum and Brook Lopez out there who you hope you're getting in the top ten of the draft, and I'd rather take a chance on Davis or Aldrich -- both better basketball players than Thabeet -- than trade our pick for a one-dimensional shot blocker that hasn't shown the ability to contribute on a regular basis in the NBA. I'm not burying the guy; he might turn out to be a dominant shotblocker, but not yet. And as of right now, I don't think he's worth a top ten pick.

 

[hammystyle]

I don't think he is the tenth best player out of the draft. You're right that the depth of the draft is more important than what we're used to seeing as a 10th pick.

Anyways, the original point was that I don't think Thabeet is worth a top ten draft pick this year. And that's because, there's guys like Andrew Bynum and Brook Lopez out there who you hope you're getting in the top ten of the draft, and I'd rather take a chance on Davis or Aldrich -- both better basketball players than Thabeet -- than trade our pick for a one-dimensional shot blocker that hasn't shown the ability to contribute on a regular basis in the NBA. I'm not burying the guy; he might turn out to be a dominant shotblocker, but not yet. And as of right now, I don't think he's worth a top ten pick.

Neither has any of the top ten picks of next year's draft. Because they haven't played either. Its one thing if you saw him play in college and just don't think he's that great, but he simply hasn't gotten any kind of opportunity to play in the NBA. So to say he hasn't shown it isn't true, because when he's played he's been pretty good. His biggest crime in the NBA is being drafted by a team who already had a center and couldn't give him any minutes. This isn't an excuse, its a statement of fact. Marc Gasol is too good to play any less, hasn't missed a game and you can't play them together. If Thabeet played on Minny, OKC, or Sac his minutes would be in the 25-30 range, he'd have 6ppg 8rpb and 3 blocks.

Its kind of similar to Joakim Noah who was seen as having a disappointing rookie year, and who this year has "developed" into a good center. He's definitely improved, and maturity has probably helped his cause as well...but production-wise, he was still pretty good as a rookie. It just didn't seem so because he was backing up Ben Wallace.

 

[bajaden]

Neither has any of the top ten picks of next year's draft. Because they haven't played either. Its one thing if you saw him play in college and just don't think he's that great, but he simply hasn't gotten any kind of opportunity to play in the NBA. So to say he hasn't shown it isn't true, because when he's played he's been pretty good. His biggest crime in the NBA is being drafted by a team who already had a center and couldn't give him any minutes. This isn't an excuse, its a statement of fact. Marc Gasol is too good to play any less, hasn't missed a game and you can't play them together. If Thabeet played on Minny, OKC, or Sac his minutes would be in the 25-30 range, he'd have 6ppg 8rpb and 3 blocks.

Its kind of similar to Joakim Noah who was seen as having a disappointing rookie year, and who this year has "developed" into a good center. He's definitely improved, and maturity has probably helped his cause as well...but production-wise, he was still pretty good as a rookie. It just didn't seem so because he was backing up Ben Wallace.

Sorry, I have to respectfully disagree. I watched a ton of games in college and I've seen at least ten games not counting those against the Kings. He's hasn't been playing that well and his minutes have been going down. Now to add insult to injury he's been benched in favor of Haddadi. The reason? Hollins said that right now Haddadi is playing better defense and is rebounding better.

Yes Gasol is the main guy. There's no denying that. But he's been forced to play more minutes than they would like because they haven't been able to trust Thabeet. Thabeet didn't know what a basketball was untill his junior year of highschool. Same as with Jordan Hill. In college I used the two of them against each other as sort of a yardstick. There is no doubt that Hill progressed quicker than Thabeet. Having said that, even Hill has been having trouble getting minutes.

The NBA has been a huge adjustment for Thabeet. In college he could just stand under the basket and swat everything that came his way. He can't do that in the pro's. There's that damm little three second rule. Plus the other centers are simply pulling him away from the basket. If he doesn't come out, they shoot the ball. If he does, they put the ball on the floor and go around him. I saw Hawes do exactly that with Thabeet guarding him. He has huge holes in his game, and until he fixes some of those holes, he's going to have a rough go of it.

I think his upside is still very high. But he's a huge project and its going to take time.

 

[pshn80]

I think his upside is still very high. But he's a huge project and its going to take time.

Right now I'd vote against the Kings taking on any more huge projects, this year or next year. If we had to, of course do it. But our problem now is the number and size of the projects currently on our roster.

 

[JoMama]

No more big, slow stiffs in the middle. I say go for the 6-10, 6-11 leaper who can shot block, rebound and is quick enough to convert second-chance opportunites around the rim. Nene is only 6-9 or so but is effective in the paint.

 

[TTown Kings]

No more big, slow buys in the middle. I say go for the 6-10, 6-11 leaper who can shot block, rebound and is quick enough to convert second-chance opportunites around the rim. Nene is only 6-9 or so but is effective in the paint.

Sounds like Derek Favors to me, I like him a lot

 

[hammystyle]

Sorry, I have to respectfully disagree. I watched a ton of games in college and I've seen at least ten games not counting those against the Kings. He's hasn't been playing that well and his minutes have been going down. Now to add insult to injury he's been benched in favor of Haddadi. The reason? Hollins said that right now Haddadi is playing better defense and is rebounding better.

Yes Gasol is the main guy. There's no denying that. But he's been forced to play more minutes than they would like because they haven't been able to trust Thabeet. Thabeet didn't know what a basketball was untill his junior year of highschool. Same as with Jordan Hill. In college I used the two of them against each other as sort of a yardstick. There is no doubt that Hill progressed quicker than Thabeet. Having said that, even Hill has been having trouble getting minutes.

The NBA has been a huge adjustment for Thabeet. In college he could just stand under the basket and swat everything that came his way. He can't do that in the pro's. There's that damm little three second rule. Plus the other centers are simply pulling him away from the basket. If he doesn't come out, they shoot the ball. If he does, they put the ball on the floor and go around him. I saw Hawes do exactly that with Thabeet guarding him. He has huge holes in his game, and until he fixes some of those holes, he's going to have a rough go of it.

I think his upside is still very high. But he's a huge project and its going to take time.

Hollins didn't say that, he said Hamed was playing well in practice and wanted to give him a shot. Maybe he is hideous in practice, but I just don't buy in that he hasn't been playing well and lost his spot. His January and Dec numbers were fine, and yes, his Feb numbers are bad, but he's played 62 minutes. Basically two bad games.

I acknowledge Thabeet has major holes in his game. Big ones. But I'm just bullish in his ability to get better and succeed. And to do it fairly quickly. Its pretty hard to miss when you're 7'3", athletic, compete hard and have a good work ethic. I'll bet on that every time.

As to the topic, would I trade our pick for him? If its top 4 meaning Wall, Turner, Favors, Cousins..absolutely not. If its in the Aldrich, Johnson, Monroe range? No, I wouldn't there either. But like I said, JT or Hawes would get dumped in a heartbeat. And frankly, that makes a lot of sense for the Grizzlies too.

 

[bajaden]

Hollins didn't say that, he said Hamed was playing well in practice and wanted to give him a shot. Maybe he is hideous in practice, but I just don't buy in that he hasn't been playing well and lost his spot. His January and Dec numbers were fine, and yes, his Feb numbers are bad, but he's played 62 minutes. Basically two bad games.

I acknowledge Thabeet has major holes in his game. Big ones. But I'm just bullish in his ability to get better and succeed. And to do it fairly quickly. Its pretty hard to miss when you're 7'3", athletic, compete hard and have a good work ethic. I'll bet on that every time.

As to the topic, would I trade our pick for him? If its top 4 meaning Wall, Turner, Favors, Cousins..absolutely not. If its in the Aldrich, Johnson, Monroe range? No, I wouldn't there either. But like I said, JT or Hawes would get dumped in a heartbeat. And frankly, that makes a lot of sense for the Grizzlies too.

I don't want to quible over what Hollins said. I did read both of the Memphis papers, and Haddadi did more than just do well in practice, he also played well in his first game. Look, I like the idea of Thabeet becoming the defensive center we all like. I'm fine with the idea. My problem is that I watched his progression in college from year to year and it was not fast. As a matter of fact I saw little or no improvement from year one to year two. This is a kid that never played basketball in his life until the end of highschool. Its not his fault, its just the way it is. As a result his basketball IQ is extremely low. He's still basicly learning the game.

So I think for anyone to think he's suddenly going to make some quantum leap as a basketball player is based on wishful thinking instead of his real capabilities. Regardless of what you might think of Thompson or Hawes, both are capable of starting and or playing sigificant minutes in the NBA. I will guarantee you right now, that if we were to trade Hawes for Thabeet and stick him out there as a starter, most people on this fourm would be calling for his head in short order. Anyway, I'm wasting my breath on something thats not going to happen anyway. Just remember, the grass always looks greener.