DMC tells Bee he "feels lost"

VF21 said:
This is a fan board. Pretty much everyone on here at one point or another has hated a player or coach for something. To say they therefore need to lay off the bottle or seek counseling is denying the basic reason this board and all the others like it exist.
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I hate a guy on the court and not off...for example, when they wore purple...Marcus Thornton, Ramon Sessions, Pete D'Allesandro, Chris Mullin......and any player wearing a Laker uniform, any player wearing a Clippers uniform...then there is Spencer Hawes whom I'm pretty sure I hate on and off the court.
 
Lets get one thing straight here....

If you trade DMC because of his attitude you will regret it very quickly. Look, i'm not a fan of his pouting and crying, lazy defense on some possessions. In fact, I hate it. Does that mean i'm going to trade one of the best big men in NBA HISTORY? HELLS TO THE NO!

I sure as heck don't wanna be watching the Celtics, Magic, or whoever tear it up with DMC. Not to mention when he faces the Kings.

It will be another mistake in a long line of mistakes. Except this one will haunt you every season for probably the next 10 years.

And when the Celtics hoist another championship banner....you can feel like crap some more.

And when DMC is inducted in the HoF.....fix yourself a bowl of crap cereal and feel like crap again

When DMC is on ESPN VR in 2057 talking about those great Celtics days.....WELL....you know what to do!

When fans of the NBA Global League talk about the great big man DeMarcus Cousins and wonder why the Kings would trade him....well you will probably be dead and in Heaven feeling like crap.

This will haunt us for all of eternity!

DO

NOT

DO

IT
 
Think we need to calm down on the all time legend status of Cousins... He's more Derrick Coleman than Tim Duncan. He's more Derrick Coleman than Chris Webber thus far.
 
He's more Barkley than Coleman.

Anyways, style wise, this is my issue:

Cousins has enough of a skillset that he can fit into almost any offense. However, his weaknesses have to do with change of direction transitional speed and general floorbound thickness. (Not fat. He's in good shape, other than the injury.)

So the offensive system can look good at times, especially when Cousins is hitting the three. However, defensively in transition there are two kinds of shots that the defender can break off of ahead of their man: The driving layup and the straight away three point shot.

1. On the driving layup, the offensive player normally ends up under the rim or past the rim, with their defender behind them. The defender can rebound and run, while the offensive player must stop and transition.
1. The straight away three has the defender running out on the shooter, giving them a head start towards the other basket. This means the wing has to run back on the straight away three to protect, and if they don't then a miss can lead to a fastbreak layup.

Within Karls' system, those two shots seem to be a good portion of the shots Cousins takes. Debate the post game all you want, but the shots Cousins takes exacerbate his biggest limitation.
 
Charles had a reported 37 inch vertical, and I'm sure that would have been slightly higher had he been leaner
 
The one thing about this is that it's going to bring about some sort of change. We have no clue what, but the possibilities are 1) Karl changes his entire offense to better accomodate this team (unlikely IMO), 2) Karl gets fired, or 3) Cousins gets traded.

There is no chance that things just remain completely the same after this. I wonder if this is enough to get rid of Karl.
 
Not much will change as long as they're sniffing the playoffs.

I don't know if they'll ever do more than sniff at the 8th seed until they do change some philosophies.
 
Blob said:
I would adamantly disagree with this on behalf of myself and others. I hate ISIS. I don't hate guys who run around in baggy shorts. I may dislike a player for his approach to the game or playing style (James Harden comes to mind). But hate is a strong word that I don't think she be thrown around in this context.
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Well, good luck with that.
 
206Fan said:
...guys, Cousins is NOT one of the best big man in NBA history...... Blake Griffin is arguably the best big today....and I wouldn't even call Griffin one of the best in NBA history...
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images
 
Livinthedream said:
Why would Cousins need to prove to Karl that he is good enough to play in the post when that's all Cousins has been his whole career? So all of a sudden we're going to make Cousins stand on the perimeter and shoot threes until he's worthy of playing the post? Makes no sense.

Cousins is inefficient this year because he's being jerked around. Even still, he's better in the post than at the 3 point line. He shouldn't get some or a number of post up opportunities. He should get them all.
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I'm out of my depth here, but I think you are spot on. It must be hard for Cousins to get in flow of his game in the post on a nightly basis, playing out of position.
 
206Fan said:
Come on VF21. Griffin is the BEST big man in today's game. He's basically a Cousins' version of a PF that can do almost everything better except over-power his opponents down low.

I know Kings fans hate him because he's so damn dominant, but it's true. He's the best big man this year. Tell me who's better.
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1. We cannot hate him, remember?
2. I dislike everything about him, not because "he's so damn dominant" but because he does things like jump over cars in the dunk competition. He's the poster child for just about everything I don't like in an NBA player.

I don't expect everyone to agree with my opinion, but I'm not going to change it.
 
so at what point does Cousins just take charge and demand the ball in the post? he probably doesn't have it in him but that might be necessary since Karl might be unwilling to change his ways. How many more meetings do you need between players and/or coaches to get it together? It's not even the all-star break and we all see it crystal clear. If Cousins is going to continue to hoist bad shots and force the action, then he should just play like he did in the Toronto game and take less shots and do other things such as making his team mates better.
 
kingsboi said:
so at what point does Cousins just take charge and demand the ball in the post?
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DMC has said he's trying to "be coachable." What do you think would happen if he tried to blatantly ignore George Karl? Such a "in your face" confrontation would not end well - for anyone.
 
It's like we didn't learn anything from the Tyreke Evans fiasco.

Can we simply just play a player to his strength and build/coach around him appropriately? It's not ****ing rocket surgery. That's why a hungry young coach like Malone was the right fit; he knew what he had, and had the brains to optimize his players. It wasn't about a system, but about maximizing the talents of your players.

Again, I think Karl has the brains to understand this, but after a players/coach meeting, and now DMC's comments (which are pretty measured, but strong nonetheless), you've gotta wonder if Karl has it in him to really give it his best with the talent on board.
 
Spike said:
The easy solution is to send Karl back and bring in Malone.

Since that has no basis in reality, we have two options for success:

1. Karl needs to give a damn again. He has the brains to figure this out. He has a prodigy on the floor (Rondo) who can help if he wants. Right now I feel like it's not that he can't, it's that he won't. He of all people should know that a system only works if you have the right players for it. That's why it worked in Denver, but it's a lazier way to approach things. By all accounts, Vlade brought in the right mix of players to win featuring Cousins on the inside. We see it, I know the players feel it.

2. Pull the plug, yet again. This time around, you have better choices. Brooks, Thibs, etc. are out there, but you better damn well be sure you have one.

Frankly, I'm surprised this is coming out now. It seems like DMC held out as long as he could, and he's given it a try, but he's not Dirk. He shouldn't be asked to play like him.
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I would not be against that at all because I feel both Malone and Karl have been ****ed by managment in some way, Malone never got a chance to prove that his above average start to last year was legit and Karl got screwed in that I don't think this is the players he wanted and that's why he wanted Cousins traded (complelety different debate which theres other threads about already).

The current situation is the worst possible case because you can't say with 100% that our core (which I think at this time is the issue) is the issue , or weather it is Karl who has made a ton of head scratching choices is holding us back.

This to me was meant to be a resolution year in terms of who we build around but it's back to the same crap of no one 100% knows and worst of all we keep having these false hope wins followed by trash zero effort performances rather than mainly wins or mainoly losses so theres always some hope making a resolution harder

Maybe its time to get rid of the core and the coach if these guys can't turn it around because both on past history and talent should be a competitive team in what has become the Eastern Conference which for the past 10 years we would say things like well if we played in the East we would make the playoffs , well here we are and we are still out of them at this point in time.
 
At the end of the day this is all viveks screw up. He once again hired a coach before his gm, the guy seriously needs to stick to girls high school basketball
 
206Fan said:
Come on VF21. Griffin is the BEST big man in today's game. He's basically a Cousins' version of a PF that can do almost everything better except over-power his opponents down low.

I know Kings fans hate him because he's so damn dominant, but it's true. He's the best big man this year. Tell me who's better.
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Cousins.

Probably Davis too.

Oddly the ability to actually play both ends of the court has value. Who would think.
 
VF21 said:
DMC has said he's trying to "be coachable." What do you think would happen if he tried to blatantly ignore George Karl? Such a "in your face" confrontation would not end well - for anyone.
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I don't mean go up to Karl and confront him personally. I mean go on the court, tell his teammates give me the ball in the post and that's how we're rolling. Someone has to take a stand somewhere here.
 
VF21 said:
DMC has said he's trying to "be coachable." What do you think would happen if he tried to blatantly ignore George Karl? Such a "in your face" confrontation would not end well - for anyone.
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Well if its going to end up with Karl being fired anyway... Might as well do it the way that wins you games. Saying he feels lost to the media and all that isn't exactly something that ends well either.
 
kingsboi said:
I don't mean go up to Karl and confront him personally. I mean go on the court, tell his teammates give me the ball in the post and that's how we're rolling. Someone has to take a stand somewhere here.
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In other words, you're advocating mutiny.

I can honestly say I've thought of the same thing, but it wouldn't end well for anyone. I have faith that Vlade is agonizing over all of this and will not wait too long before coming to some kind of conclusion.
 
KingMilz said:
I would not be against that at all because I feel both Malone and Karl have been ****ed by managment in some way, Malone never got a chance to prove that his above average start to last year was legit and Karl got screwed in that I don't think this is the players he wanted and that's why he wanted Cousins traded (complelety different debate which theres other threads about already).

The current situation is the worst possible case because you can't say with 100% that our core (which I think at this time is the issue) is the issue , or weather it is Karl who has made a ton of head scratching choices is holding us back.

This to me was meant to be a resolution year in terms of who we build around but it's back to the same crap of no one 100% knows and worst of all we keep having these false hope wins followed by trash zero effort performances rather than mainly wins or mainoly losses so theres always some hope making a resolution harder

Maybe its time to get rid of the core and the coach if these guys can't turn it around because both on past history and talent should be a competitive team in what has become the Eastern Conference which for the past 10 years we would say things like well if we played in the East we would make the playoffs , well here we are and we are still out of them at this point in time.
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Fair. You really don't know how a team will react until they have their first real slide, and under Malone, it was without Cousins. Unfortunately, the data bears out that the Kings, under any coach, have yet to consistently win without Cousins. We'll never know.

What we do know is that the Kings looked better under Karl last year with an arguably weaker roster - was that because he didn't implement his system?

There's a lot muddying the water right now, but the nuclear option isn't available. Too much of our future is tied into THIS core; it seems likelier to jettison Karl given the reboot that would be required if we blew it all up.

The only thing that would help would be something drastic like taking ALL of Boston's picks, and even then, I don't know that Karl would be around long enough to see his vision bear fruit.
 
Spike said:
Fair. You really don't know how a team will react until they have their first real slide, and under Malone, it was without Cousins. Unfortunately, the data bears out that the Kings, under any coach, have yet to consistently win without Cousins. We'll never know.

What we do know is that the Kings looked better under Karl last year with an arguably weaker roster - was that because he didn't implement his system?

There's a lot muddying the water right now, but the nuclear option isn't available. Too much of our future is tied into THIS core; it seems likelier to jettison Karl given the reboot that would be required if we blew it all up.

The only thing that would help would be something drastic like taking ALL of Boston's picks, and even then, I don't know that Karl would be around long enough to see his vision bear fruit.
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If we blow the team up, Karl has to go too. He wouldn't want to be here for a rebuild anyways.
 
Chubbs said:
Yes, this is Karl's philosophy and is partly why he got fired in Denver. All the exact same problems exist here.

http://grantland.com/the-triangle/a...-is-out-in-denver-and-where-he-may-be-headed/

George Karl knew this wouldn't work with boogie and it'd be a struggle. He has no need for a dominant post center, never had, never will. And won't change to fit the team. He's dead set on the "process" of turning Boogie into a good 3 point shooter, cause then, titles. I personally have no idea why. But he's completely willing to lose now in order to achieve that goal. There's a quote out there indicating as much but I'm not going to look for it.

It's the underwear gnome plan. 1)make boogie a 3 point shooter. 2)??? 3) Title contention.

That's why Karl tried to trade him. It was trade him or "fix" him. And Boogie's agent was on board knowing what a stubborn old **** Karl is.

We are in the fixing stage. And Boogie's body can't do it.

Vivek and Vlade know what they have (Vlade seems to have convinced Vivek). So does Karl. He just doesn't want it. He wants an Ervin Johnson, a Koufos and all the other no offense centers he's had through the years. He flat out stopped playing McGee in Denver basically ending his career as a productive nba player.

Karl is already using WCS like he used McGee, which is to say sparingly.

From the above article of why Denver fired him.

'There’s a lot of sense in that. But Karl’s teams never quite mastered the art of switching. They’d miscommunicate now and then, so that two defenders would chase one player instead of switching assignments. And they’d repeatedly switch themselves into obviously more terrible matchups that opponents would happily exploit over and over; Kobe Bryant slaughtered Denver with post-ups in the 2012 playoffs in part because the Nuggets stubbornly switched on Ramon Sessions–Kobe pick-and-rolls, leaving Lawson or Prof. Andre Miller to check Kobe."

This is describing what were very good nuggets teams catered to Karl's style. It just goes nowhere. We could give Karl everything he wants, win 55 games, and go out in the first round every year. Cause he's still going to allow a Rondo on a Paul pierce or Blake griffin in a horrible mismatch with the game on the line.

It's not the system. Karl believes his system is flawless and proven. So it's the players. Has to be.

It's just sad. And Karl blames the players for not switching aggressively enough, poopoo like that. Deja vu. Karl ain't changing.
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i'm very concerned for cuz's health in this system first and foremost. he's really not built for this. he was feeling the effects of it last year and you can see it this year. when does vlade drop the axe on vivek's hire? will vivek let vlade bring in his own man or will he be interviewing candidates behind the scenes again?
 
That's on Cousins. As a professional athlete you are responsible for your physical conditioning. Cousins isn't some magical beast that can't physically play at a faster pace. He could handle it fine if he came in prepared.
 
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