DMC tells Bee he "feels lost"

Everyone is partially right in this... Cousins is simply just not in good condition at the moment... whether it be injuries, body comp... He just simply isn't in optimal physical condition. He can certainly excel playing under Karl, just since the injuries the numbers have been thrown out of wack. He was playing some career best ball up until the recent injuries.
 
I remember watching Hubie Brown break Jason Williams' spirit. Right now, I am really afraid we're watching George Karl break DeMarcus Cousins' game ... and his future.

I cannot recall being this angry since Chris Webber was traded, but this is a different kind of anger. This is the anger of seeing an elite athlete misused and blamed for things that are not his fault. This is the anger that comes when you're watching a trainwreck and realizing you're unable to stop it. And to go along with it, there's the belief that the Sacramento Kings could go down in history as the team that totally destroyed the career of an incredible young man.

Dramatic? Yes, but it's how I feel.

Won't destroy it.

Will destroy us. He's got the most powerful agent in the game. When that agent has seen enough, he'll either end Karl's or Boogie's time with us. Would like to see Pat Riley get a hold of him, maybe come back down for one more go as coach just to hear all the morons shut up.
 
I got DMC's back over anyone else in this organization. He's been so loyal to this city through all the bull****.

What the hell has George Karl ever done for this us?

There still has to be some objectivity.

Karl obviously isn't the coach to have if dmc is your star player so I'd put 80% on that.

But we're many many years into cuz's career and he's still costing us points by stopping in the backcourt crying about calls while his man rim runs and gets a layup.

This is a big boy league and 2 points is enough to lose you a game.
 
There still has to be some objectivity.

Karl obviously isn't the coach to have if dmc is your star player so I'd put 80% on that.

But we're many many years into cuz's career and he's still costing us points by stopping in the backcourt crying about calls while his man rim runs and gets a layup.

This is a big boy league and 2 points is enough to lose you a game.


That's a bit like saying 'yeah the girl's hot, but she chews with her mouth open".

Unfortunate, be better if she did not, but if you broke up with her over it you'd be an idiot.

The thing is we KNOW what a huge difference DMC makes -- its right in the numbers. And in particular in the defensive numbers. We know that he makes us dramatically better defensively, and we know that he makes us win a dramatically higher % of our games when he plays. So once we know those things, criticisms that oh, he complains and doesn't get back on defense fall by the wayside. Perhaps he gives away 2pts here or there, but all the stats say he gets you back far far more. Many complaints of that style about Cousins are forest for the trees sort of things.
 
Hi guys. I have to confess that I haven't seen either of the two last games because I'm traveling and my LeaguePass fails to log me in. However, I'm following the discussion and I'm getting confused. Aren't we getting a little bit ahead of ourselves. The team apparently played a brilliant game against Toronto, which is a way better team than Washington. A day later a loss to the Wizards and the roof fell down?? Please, keep in mind that the East is very strong this year. I would suggest that we as fans put a lid on these bipolar reactions. It was a back to back game on the road. It's a different time zone and different sleeping times etc, etc...

DMC had better stats in Washington than in Toronto. The rest of the team did not. Gortat had a nice evening, but a lot of players get into the zone from time to time. Gortat has had good stats in the last 3 games, because of injuries to other players and he has got more touches. So, much about nothing. Would you now trade DMC for Gortat? I would never do that. I'm also sympathetic to DMC for feeling lost. The guy is very ambitious and he doesn't like when he doesn't play a good game. I'm sure that some of the critics of his game are right in some aspects of his game, but I don't care. The total package is what counts. In that category, he is one of the best centers in the league (I don't like to use the term best in general).

Comparing stats is problematic in general. I was looking for some other stats (Curry) and realized that Iguodala has just about similar stats line as Casspi (Casspi being better in most categories). Both are the 6th man in their teams. If I can find a GM in the league who would take Casspi before Iguodala, I would drop dead. And I'm one who loves Casspi's game and his input to the Kings team. The Kings roster is good enough to upset just about any team in the league. The only thing lacking is consistency. My suggestion is to keep it calm. Don't shoot to all directions without even understanding what you are shooting at. It's a new team and the consistency will come - unless you rock the boat too much.
 
Last edited:
B.S.

'Getting with the program" when the program is idiotic is not "manly". Its stupid, submissive, or both. If we want to talk real "manly" stuff, in the real world when a leader is not getting it done, the ambitious manly men are typical going to depose him.

Cuz can't win because fans are hippocrites. He fights Karl he's a cancer. He goes along with Karl, he's a wimp.

Part of it is many fans being not very good at basketball. Go the extra yard? Yeah. If Luke Walton had walked into the coaching position in Golden State and immediately told Steph Curry to play off the ball in the post, I'm sure all the geniuses out there would have told Steph to "just suck it up amnd go the extra yard".

The problem is so obvious that even a dunderhead like Grant has been remarking on it game after game. This is criminal misuse. THIS IS THE COACH. 100%. There is nothing sacrosanct about coaches, especially not at the NBA level where the players they coach are a lot more exceptional and rare specimens than the coaches themselves. Its the coach's job to maximize the success of his best players, not the other way around.

I did this math earlier this season, but here it is once again. This is A KARL PROBLEM:

DeMarcus Cousins FG%, Mike Malone: 86gms 717-1437 = .499FG% (TS% = .561)
DeMarcus Cousins, FG%, this season: 20gms 164-393 = .417FG% (TS% = .515)

This is criminal misuse of our prime asset. If we had a board of directors in a publicly traded company they would can the failed manager post haste.

This would normally deserve a full descriptive thread, but here is what any fool who knows the Kings should know, and yet George Karl does not. These are DeMarcus Cousins shot "heat" charts for the last 4 years. So not only Malone, but the last year of Smart too.

2012-13 Smart
2mq6ffc.png

2013-14 Malone
etbqs0.png

2014-15 Malone/Corbin/Karl (I'd be willing to bet the Malone part looked like the above charts, then got diluted by idiots)
2yl2o04.png

2015-16 Karl (the little outside smudge here is outside the arc now)
2dj2fww.png


And EVERYBODY who watched Cousins and knew their stuff knew this. This was Cousins' game. Strong midrange shooter, off the catch and shoot, from 18-20 feet, up around the FT line, not the angles. Left block post player. From either the block or the facing jumper, loved/preferred to fake or spin and slash to the rim instead. That's the game. All great players have them. You can trash any great player, just take away what they do well and make them do stupid stuff instead. Make Bron or Westbrook a spot up three point shooter. Make A.D. into a back to the basket player. Turn Curry into a post up guard. Its not hard. All you have to do is be an idiot an you can mess up anything you touch. In this case Karl has completely evaporated Cuz's midrange and post game to buy back a 31% 3pt shooter who now has to dribble 25feet just to get a shot off at the rim.

Do you know that its been NEARLY 30 YEARS since George Karl has a big man average 20+ppg for him? And that it happened 1 single time for him in 25 seasons as a coach? And that in the past 18 years George Karl has had exactly 1 "big man" ever average 15ppg for him? And that was Kenyon Martin in 2004-05, George's very first year in Denver, when he took over midseason? Martin averaged 15.5ppg that year, much like Boogie continued along after Karl took over last year. Under Karl Martin would never average more than 12.9ppg again.

In 9 years in Denver, Martin was the only one at 15.5ppg. Nene got as high as 14.6ppg.
In 5 years in Milwaulkee, if yo really wanted to squint and call Tim Thomas a "big" he averaged 13.3ppg. Otherwise its Anthony Mason at 9.4ppg (!)
In 7 years in Seattle both Kemp and Baker broke 19ppg, neither ever averaged 20ppg.
In 2 years in Golden State in Yr 2 Ralph Sampson averaged 15.5ppg in 25 games. In Yr 1, 1986-87, Joe Barry Carroll averaged 21.2pts...on .437 shooting.
In 2 years in Cleveland Mel Turpin never averaged more than 13.7ppg. Tweener forward Roy Hinson (similar to Tim Thomas) averaged 19.6ppg 1 year.

There is absolutely NO evidence, and never was, that George Karl has any idea how to coach a team built around a great big man. If you were to hire somebody with so inappropriate a resume for a job you'd probably get fired yourself. And hey, PDA did, but Vivek can't be. Its like hiring an old history teacher to teach calculus, because hey, he used to be a great teacher back when students were writing with quills and the Holy Roman Empire was a thing.
It can't be spelled out any clearer for those that are critical of Cousins, those that don't understand the lament of firing Malone. Disturbing seeing Karl's history with big men. You know why Cousins got along with Malone so well? Cause Malone emphasized defense and coached to the teams strengths....he got it. There is no one in their right mind who can think that Karl is coaching to this teams strengths. George is costing this team wins.
 
We have a tendency to keep trying to point the blame at individual players. If this guy shot s certain percentage we'd be good. Or if this other guy got more rebounds, we could have won. We are so caught up in the minutia of each game that we can't see the forest through the trees. We have had and have an organizational problem. It's not a Cousins problem.

What I see from Cousins is a guy who has tried to adapt to Karl's system and is realizing it's not working for him, despite his best efforts. It's wearing him down. Karl already knew it wouldn't work. That's why he wanted to trade Cuz.

We can criticize Cousins attitude all we want, but he is putting up with more than just about any big time talent would from an organization. This franchise has backed itself into a corner with their coach and front office moves and the one suffering the most is Cousins.
 
I cannot blame Cousins for feeling lost, hell I feel lost watching him out there. Karl has not shown the ability to maximize Cousins talents, and frankly, we're lucky Cousins has not demanded a trade. However, you can tell in his body language he's not with the program, and I don't blame him! This season has been the most frustrating for me in the last five years and with this team, that's a difficult thing to say. I don't care if the Kings are .500 when Cousins plays, they would be much better than that if he was utilized properly! I actually think the talent on this team is even better than we thought prior to the season with Rondo returning to All Star form and Ben Mac coming around as of late, which is part of what adds to the frustration, I think we're massively under performing the talent on this roster, and I just hope the ship can be righted. It's nice to have the vets saying the right things, supporting the coach and all, but you can see it on their faces how frustrated they are, and trying to hold it in is just going to result in an explosion. I hope this all gets better, but its hard to be optimistic right now.
 
That's a bit like saying 'yeah the girl's hot, but she chews with her mouth open".

Unfortunate, be better if she did not, but if you broke up with her over it you'd be an idiot.

The thing is we KNOW what a huge difference DMC makes -- its right in the numbers. And in particular in the defensive numbers. We know that he makes us dramatically better defensively, and we know that he makes us win a dramatically higher % of our games when he plays. So once we know those things, criticisms that oh, he complains and doesn't get back on defense fall by the wayside. Perhaps he gives away 2pts here or there, but all the stats say he gets you back far far more. Many complaints of that style about Cousins are forest for the trees sort of things.

I agree with most of that, will agree to disagree on the "fall by the wayside" bit. Anything that is costing the team points for, literally, years is not something I'm going to ignore, I don't care how good the guy is, and cuz is very very good.
 
It can't be spelled out any clearer for those that are critical of Cousins, those that don't understand the lament of firing Malone. Disturbing seeing Karl's history with big men. You know why Cousins got along with Malone so well? Cause Malone emphasized defense and coached to the teams strengths....he got it. There is no one in their right mind who can think that Karl is coaching to this teams strengths. George is costing this team wins.

I think Karl is coaching to Rondo's strengths. I think Karl is coaching to Omri's strengths. Rudy ... arguable. If the players played harder, if Cousins actually makes his shots when we post him up and actually tries to stop Gortat we win the Wizards game and are 4-1 over the last 5, with the Twolves game very much winnable as well. How come when the Kings go up 15 on the Raptors in the first quarter it's not to Karl's credit, and Cousins isn't "lost" (in fact, some here were saying how dominant he was. +33 on the floor despite not scoring!)? But we lose a game for some pretty darn obvious reasons (effort, fatigue) and once again it's back to the "Poor Cousins, most unfairly and poorly treated 30 win player HOF top 3 center of all time ever, Karl is costing us wins" narrative. Hey, can someone remind me how many wins we had in Malone's first season here? Was he maximizing Cousins then? Was Cousins injured? Were we a defensive juggernaut (since you know, Malone emphasizes defense while Karl is just a smallball no defense fanatic)
 
The way people talk about a 15 game stretch we should retire a banner with 9/6 and in brackets put Mike Malone coaching Dmc healthy when the Nuggets come to visit us.

Should the Kings fire Karl sure but you can't put 100% of the blame on him he's not here to coach basic effort and basic basketball decision making.

Do you know that is almost a direct quote from Coach Karl the other day? Is Karl insinuating he has lost the Team? If the Head Coach is not directly responsible for the Teams Mindset then who is?

It may be time for a Vlade Divac intervention into this little drama that has been building.

Still this season is not lost. Coach Karl is going to have to change the teams approach and find a way to get maximum rest for for the core players while still utilizing their talents (see Coach Pop and the Spurs this season). IMO the game needs to be slowed and Karl needs to focus on REBOUNDING AND DEFENSE.

1) No more Cousins on the perimeter.
2) Let McLemore defend the other teams best guard.
3) No more two PG lineups.
4) Play two Bigs all the time and Rudy is not a Big.
5) Have the defenders stay on their man at the three point line (This alone accounts for several losses this year).
6) Slow the pace. Running your own team into the ground is dumb.
7) Blaming the players for a poor scheme is a bad look.

That said if Karl refuses to change I see no reason for him to continue to Coach the Kings.
 
To me, Cousins is getting plenty of looks that he would get under Malone. He just isn't making them like he did before. A stretch of bad games following an injury has soured a great start to the season

I mean Cousins averaged 31 and 11 in November despite missing games due to injury

I'm seeing him getting some post looks, and quite frankly it's not demanded too much more of it as of right now. Cuz needs to get right physically.
 
Anyone else concerned that this sets up a trade request from Cousins camp in the near future, especially considering this story comes out when he is in DC where his buddy John Wall plays?

he indeed looks lost out there, hopefully these comments stem from frustration and he is committed to fighting through it. Most of the recent chatter has been about the team starting to get on the same page. Odd.
 
I think Karl is coaching to Rondo's strengths. I think Karl is coaching to Omri's strengths. Rudy ... arguable. If the players played harder, if Cousins actually makes his shots when we post him up and actually tries to stop Gortat we win the Wizards game and are 4-1 over the last 5, with the Twolves game very much winnable as well. How come when the Kings go up 15 on the Raptors in the first quarter it's not to Karl's credit, and Cousins isn't "lost" (in fact, some here were saying how dominant he was. +33 on the floor despite not scoring!)? But we lose a game for some pretty darn obvious reasons (effort, fatigue) and once again it's back to the "Poor Cousins, most unfairly and poorly treated 30 win player HOF top 3 center of all time ever, Karl is costing us wins" narrative. Hey, can someone remind me how many wins we had in Malone's first season here? Was he maximizing Cousins then? Was Cousins injured? Were we a defensive juggernaut (since you know, Malone emphasizes defense while Karl is just a smallball no defense fanatic)

Again a load of crap.

Cousins dominated the Toronto game because he was having a remarkable night in every way BUT scoring. Didn't mean that he wasn't being actively ****ed by his coach for every single minute he was on the floor offensively.

So now we roll into Washington, Cousins is less fresh, Gortat is trying to be silly. And our coach has AGAIN ****ed over our franchise player...and himself in the process, as he completely neutralizes any advantage his own franchise player can give him, including the advantage of wearing down Gortat and pinning him to the bench with foul trouble.
 
So versus the Raptors Cousins came away with 15 points on 5-13 shooting, but played a very good overall game, because he impacted the game without scoring the ball. Versus the Wizards he forced his shot way more, he dribbled into traffic and didn't play much defense.
But still it's only Karl, who is to blame, because he doesn't know, how to use DMC?
It's Karl's fault, that Cousins was unable to defend the pick&roll with Gortat (who is one of the best pick&roll bigs) and was unable to convert his post touches on the other side of the floor?
We rarely see the spin moves, the up&under or the dropstep moves with Cousins in the post this season - is this Karl's fault?
Honestly I'm confused right now.
In theory Karl's idea of making Cousins a tad more versatile by adding a 3point shot, getting him more easy baskets by establishing a strong playmaking PG instead of letting Cousins deal with the playmaking all the time and to add players, who can shoot and use open driving lanes to open up the floor for everyone doesn't sound bad at all. Getting out in the open floor, while Cousins is allowed to trail the play, doesn't sound like a bad idea. Having an uptempo team with one of the primere half court options to fall back to, when no easy transition basket is available, doesn't sound like a bad idea.
But still everyone claims, that Karl is to blame.
I don't think Karl is an elite coach. But I do believe it's a little bit more complicated, than to simply put all the blame on him.
 
To me, Cousins is getting plenty of looks that he would get under Malone. He just isn't making them like he did before. A stretch of bad games following an injury has soured a great start to the season

I mean Cousins averaged 31 and 11 in November despite missing games due to injury

I'm seeing him getting some post looks, and quite frankly it's not demanded too much more of it as of right now. Cuz needs to get right physically.

Like anything else, rhythm and repetition are key. Cousins is not ****ing Luis Scola. You don't post him once to be cute. You post him relentlessly to wear teams down and get them in foul trouble. He's one of the truly great attrition weapons in the league and our pathetic staff flutters him about like he's Spencer Hawes. Using a sampler where ooh, once every 10 minutes Cousins goes into the post after having no rhythm or rhyme, and doesn't convert, is silly. Its no different than if you let Durant have 1 jumper every quarter, and gee, look, he missed a bunch of those. Shocker.

As for the first month -- here's a not so amazing bulletin: 1) Cousins came down off the ridiculous 45% 3pt shooting high; 2) teams got a look at Karl's freakshow and took it away.

Cousins is not 100% physically,. but just as important, maybe more important, is how obviously uncomfortable he is mentally. I was a tough and nasty defender in every sport I ever played. Considered offense to be for pussies and gloryhounds, and went out to play for the sole enjoyment of making the offensive minded weenies cry. And I can tell you with 100% certainty that half the game on defense is making the other guy uncomfortable. Get in his space, take away his favorite moves, frustrate him, thug him, and tell him about it. And hey, if his coach wants to lend you a giant assist by making him uncomfortable from the getgo, you're home without ever having to do anything.
 
Cuz is heavy legged and begging for fouls these days, and shows none of Bricklayers prowess as a tenacious defender.

Sorry but no excuse for quitting in my book. Score baskets, pass the ball and guard your man. Most importantly never EVER make excuses or point the finger.

Come on Cuz quit the Benoit Benjamin imitation and play ball.
 
So versus the Raptors Cousins came away with 15 points on 5-13 shooting, but played a very good overall game, because he impacted the game without scoring the ball. Versus the Wizards he forced his shot way more, he dribbled into traffic and didn't play much defense.
But still it's only Karl, who is to blame, because he doesn't know, how to use DMC?

YES.

Because DeMarcus Cousins is the best offensive center in basketball, and in no way shape or form should he HAVE to dominate games in every way possible to make up for the fact his coach is ****ing him. In rationalcoachingland Cousins having a dominant non-scoring game is candy, because you know the offense is going to be there.

And what Cousins did in Toronto didn't have anything to do with Karl either. He didn't help that a bit. Cousins was so good at everything else int hat game that he made up for his coach's stupidity and had a pretty good game despite, not because of, Karl. But asking him to dominate every other aspect of the game every night is asinine.

This is a stupid debate. We know exactly how DeMarcus Cousins can be highly effective. We've seen it for years. We're not seeing it now.
 
Cuz is heavy legged and begging for fouls these days, and shows none of Bricklayers prowess as a tenacious defender.

Sorry but no excuse for quitting in my book. Score baskets, pass the ball and guard your man. Most importantly never EVER make excuses or point the finger.

Come on Cuz quit the Benoit Benjamin imitation and play ball.

Cuz showed his defensive prowess some 24 hours before he suddenly lost it.

And he's heavy legged in part because he's being asked to cover too damn much ground. He's never had lift. But you put him out 25 feet from the hoop and by the time he gets inside the whole damn team is waiting for him. Cousins' game is about his strength. He needs to get into people's bodies, knock them out of the way, carry them on his shoulder so they can't get off the ground against him, and if they try, its a foul.. You can't do that if you're having to effectively telegraph every attack because you're starting it 25 feet out.

There is a reason his percentages look like a guard's -- we are playing him like one. And if a guard puts up those numbers, maybe you have to accept it, because guard's are small and weak and that's basically the best they can do. But Cousins is neither, and there's a hell of a lot more you can do with him.
 
YES.

Because DeMarcus Cousins is the best offensive center in basketball, and in no way shape or form should he HAVE to dominate games in every way possible to make up for the fact his coach is ****ing him. In rationalcoachingland Cousins having a dominant non-scoring game is candy, because you know the offense is going to be there.

And what Cousins did in Toronto didn't have anything to do with Karl either. He didn't help that a bit. Cousins was so good at everything else int hat game that he made up for his coach's stupidity and had a pretty good game despite, not because of, Karl. But asking him to dominate every other aspect of the game every night is asinine.

This is a stupid debate. We know exactly how DeMarcus Cousins can be highly effective. We've seen it for years. We're not seeing it now.

We agree, that Cousins is the best offensive center.
But having a dominant non-scoring game is to be expected, when your offensive game is off somehow. What's not to be expected is forcing shots and dribbling into traffic.
And let's assume Karl is the coach for the remainder of the season. If he truly misuses Cousins, there is only one way to convince him to change his approach and that's Cousins converting the touches in the post he gets right now.
The problem is, that he isn't doing this.
Karl already made a few adjustments - he stepped away from the constant switching on pick&rolls, he slowed the game a bit, he shuffled the lineups and walked away from playing Cousins and KK together for extended minutes.
So why should I believe, that he would be unwilling to post up Cousins more frequently, if he sees, that he is getting great results doing it?
 
Here it comes. It always comes with this team. It's inevitable as the sun coming up in the east and setting in the west.
 
Post DMC up against Gortat all night. Gortat has to work harder, gets tired and probably gets in foul trouble. Now Gortat has been dealt with. No career night. Elementary coaching.

The problem is that would slow our pace and Karl doesn't want that. Karl WANTS DMC trailing the play on offense so we can get up a quick shot with a clear lane. If we can't get a quick shot, give it to Cuz for a trailing three. It's garbage basketball and it minimizes Cousins impact on the game. Karl doesn't care about Cousins or his game. Cousins game is counterproductive to what Karl wants.

Cousins knows whats going on. He's being diplomatic in his language so he doesn't get that "coach killer" thing thrown at him. But he can't hide it in his body language. Karl is ruining his career.
 
Do we all agree that a perimeter shot, whether it be 18 feet or 23 feet... It's a necessity to Cousins game? We can't just have Cousins parked down low like he's Shaq all game can we? The perimeter shot is necessary to balance out his game. Now, Cousins is shooting around 38% from midrange and 32% from three... Just by looking at those two numbers, it's clear the three is the superior shot from a numbers efficiency stand point. Even Cousins' career high 42% from midrange, the 3 is still the numbers efficiency superior shot. That's just looking at it from a purely numbers, efficiency standpoint.

I don't subscribe to the "blame this all on Karl" idea... Over the last few weeks he has shown to be dynamic in some of his coaching decisions, like KingsfanGER said. Cousins is getting more post ups. But he's simply not producing. This whole idea of Cousins standing at the 3pt line all the time, is because he is jogging up the court while his teammates are running. I don't view the 3 as a huge ideological change. It's simply Cousins taking some of those mid range shots he has always taken, and expanded them a few more feet out.
 
Even if cuz was playing at the level of "best big in game" do the best teams in the league these days rely on its bigs to bully inside.. especially ones with heavy legs that can shoot over people. Cuz relies on getting fouled a lot, and if referees tire of his whining (which they clearly are) he will end up flailing and flopping on the ground while the action goes the other way.

Of course im picking on him for his "im lost" whinery which I feel will be the end of the squad. Still the real problem with squad is Gay and the 2 guards and the 4 position are pretty dang mediocre.
 
Well looks like it's not any injuries that are causing his lack of effort. He's not interested. He's not being used correctly and you know what, I blame him equally as Karl. He wanted this for himself and now regrets it. Maybe this is what Karl wanted all along, for Cousins to see himself that he shouldn't be out on the perimeter that much... Next game should be telling!
 
Back
Top